Grades v. Magic 01/15

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Garcia ( C ) -- in the first half made an impact with his hustle game, and continues to show a knack for open court fast break shot blocks where he can get extended. But fell back into offensive punchlessness, and was really invisible in the second half. Still ended up playing an amazing full 48 minutes as Rick just said screw it, we need this one, and ran the starters straight into the ground. Did do a decent job defensively against Grant Hill, and actually got his feet set on one open three pointer, and drained it. But everything else, challenged, forced, and missed. As usual had a few bad turnovers on passes he should never have thrown. Gets himself into bad spots with nowhere to go a lot of times. Minor scrapper type effort tonight.
Thomas ( C+ ) -- not surprisingly lost the battle in there against the big kid, but did manage to occasionally counterpunch with quickness. Unfortunately that kind of mano a mano focus may have hurt us in the mid-4th when Kenny kept on forcing it against the bad matchup, was inefficient, picked up a technical, and broke our momentum there for a bit. Came through late in the game with a couple of key defensive rebounds though. 11 and 6 does not compare well to 18 and 19, and I certainly had as many questions as ever about Kenny's decisionmaking, but to be fair he was not always guarding Howard, and he made enough scattered contributions to keep it from being a complete wipeout.
Miller ( A ) -- Giant numbers, but not sure if it was quite as impressive as all of that. Sort of just slugged his way to his points on the night until a semi-flurry of points late. Nothing great or amazing, but with Bibby hurting heaved up a three pointer with 2 minutes to go and got to the line on a couple of fouls (the latter one intentional) + knocked down the FTs. Racked up 7 assists, and while most of the assists were off the 2 man game setting up Bibby, and while of course that is meant to be a minimalizing statement since he really wasn't running the offense for the whole team, looked at another way he was the primary assistman for our star of the night. Reboundingwise hung in there and battled against everyone but Howard. 21pts 12rebs 7ast is a HUGE statistical game. But it didn't really feel dominant or even very close to it. He was really just the wingman to Bibby, and had his hands full inside with Howard. Did not shrink or shirk his duty this time out though, and the stats alone, not to mention the late points, are worth the grade.
Martin ( A ) -- came back home and had a big game for the first time in a couple of weeks. Got me thinking, and sure enough: Kevin home FG% this year: .457, road FG%: .407. Able to use his athleticism to find the seams in the porous Orlando defense and involved in a number of big collisions as he went crashing into the Magic's bigs around the rim. Came up with his career rebounding high, and had a great one in the last two minutes where he managed to outbattle Howard in there (and keep him from getting 20). Hit 4 big clutch FTs as he, along with the rest of the team, simply would not give the Magic the miss at the line they needed to have a chance to tie us up. Played offense so inexplicably different than he has been the last week or two that I don't even pretend to understand. Today was just basically running and jumping and crashing toward the rim. Complete 180 from what he's been doing. And with far more aggressiveness too (of course it is more natural). Now part of it may have been that the Magic suck defensively (a common thread in many of Kevin's big athletic games). But even so, the difference should not be THIS much. In any case, whatever. Played a great game. A critical third wheel supporting Mike and Brad.
Bibby ( A+ ) -- okay, and here was the Mike "on" game again. Really on. "A", "F", "A", "F"...getting whiplash trying to keep track of things. In any case, Mike took advantage of the Magic missing their PGs to have another one of those big can't miss, free + loose games. Started to come on strong in the second quarter and got even hotter in the third when he just kept on getting to the exact same spots on the floor for shot after shot and the Magic apparently oblivious to the fact he was on fire. Briefly pondered withholding the "+" here because this was pretty much a one-dimensional shooting performance. It wasn't really Mike running the team and putting up huge numbers, it was him just sort of calling his own number and getting into a scorching rhythm. Made a few nice feeds to Martin in particular in the open court, but in the halfcourt actually had some problems getting the team into its offense. And of course Nelson was scoring back at him at a high rate too, although Mike did not always have the defensive responsibility. But I just had to go with the extra tick as Mike more or less singlehandedly won this one for us, and by the very end had set his career scoring high. Took a pair of hard falls at about the 3 minute mark, one trying to draw a foul (he did not), and then the other on the rebound of the wild miss he threw up trying to draw the whistle. And he got up looking very sore (scary moment to say the least). Interrupted Mike's inexorable march toward his career high, and for a while there thought he might not make it. Ended up bricking a pair of free throws after the injury while looking very very uncomfortable. But the Magic finally gave the career mark as a parting gift, as with 1 second left to go in the game they fouled Mike in desperation trying to extend the game, and gave him a chance to hit the two sealers just before the game was over. So A+ it was, and I guess this is what it takes for us to even beat the bad teams anymore -- a career night from one of the guys who are left.
Hart ( C+ ) -- hit one semi-desperation jumper in the second quarter. About the extent of his contributions. Spent most of his time playing alongside Mike (who played 46min :eek: ) rather than in place of him, so did not have the deadening effect on the offense he does as a PG. Been a major trend here recently by Rick. Really is playing Mike and Jason together more than one at a time. Maybe a recognition of Jason's limitations as a point. Or maybe looking for that old Bobby/House dynamic. Either way, Jason is playing better with primary playmaking responsibilites shifted elsewhere. But of course at the cost of us not really having a main backup PG. Mike can't play 46min every night to get us a win.
Williamson ( C ) -- with KT in early foul trouoble Corliss got the call at PF to play...6'11" I-can-touch-the-rim-with-my-forehead super-soph Dwight Howard. :eek: Stats say Corliss grabbed a number of rebounds, but the ones he got were uncontested, while the Magic's big frontline (6'11" Howard, 6'11" Battie and 6'10" Hedo at one point) spent most of his minutes playing pattycake off the glass. Not really Corliss's fault. He simply cannot contend with that sort of length, nor should he have to. Threw up an airball as his lone offensive contribution. Fared better when he got a few mintues against Hedo.
Skinner ( C+ ) -- hustled to very modest effect. Lone points came on a surprise giveup jumper form the top of the key after he (and we) ran out of options. Not much anywhere else either. Certainly agree and understand the carping about Brian being a FAR better match for the big Magic frontline physically, and Dwight Howard in particular of course. But not as if he was tearing it up tonight. Like the rest of the bench, did not play a single minute after half.

Adelman ( B- ) -- Hey hey...a game that we actually WON with free throw shooting! New trick...about 4 years too late though. Had three guys hit double figures in FTs made, and all of them hit clutch ones down the final minute when we could easily have let this get away if our guys had missed any. This one was interesting from a coaching perspective. First of all, let's get this out of the way, Rick did not substitute ANYBODY in the second half. NO substitutions. Not sure I've ever seen that. All 5 starters just played the entire 24min. Does take the whole question about substitution patterns, loss of momentum, weak bench etc. totally out of the equation I guess. Just don't ever take anybody out! :rolleyes: A sign of...innovation? Or desperation? Or just a recognition of the importance of beating this team on our home floor after the terrible week we've had? Anyway, even the few substitutions we did make (all in the first half) were interesting. First of all of course we ran into one of the true big man studs in the league right now, and for the next decade, in Dwight Howard. 6'11", athletic as all hell, mashes boards. Just a terrible matchup for us. And yet after 6'7" mighty mite KT got done trying to bite his knees, Rick's response is to bring in...Corliss? Corliss Williamson on Dwight Howard Rick? Really?? Note also that Corliss got exactly zero minutes at SF, where we decide to run Cisco the full 48! Despite modest contributions. Hart's time was also interesting, as he continues to see as much or more time playing alongside Mike as he does replacing him, resulting in Mike himself playing 46min in this one. In any case, desperate tactics that in the end resulted in victory. Although its just as likely that the victory and tactics were separate events. One things for sure -- we can't play the starters that many minutes EVERY night. And despite getting a career night from Mike, it also seems doubtful we played well enough to beat a good team tonight. Which is a little frightening actually. Near triple double from Brad, career scoring night form Mike, maybe career ngiht from Kevin, and yet you get down to it we barely snuck by a bad team missing its best player on our home court. And that by playing the main guys until they dropped. Not sure where you go from that. Had a hard time deciding whether to credit or debit Rick for the no substitution gimick. So split the difference. Gave him a bonus for the win. And a minus for the moments when I thought the substitution pattern was particularly silly. And there we go.

Brian Hill ( A+ ) -- Wow appreciated Brian's assist in this one as he stubbornly refused to double the ball out of Mike's hands no matter how many times he used exactly the same move on the left side of the court to get an open look. Also helped us by going small, leaving Dwight Howard to kill us inside more or less singlehandedly, but falling into our own smallball trap with Pat Garrity and Hedo Turkoglu racking up PF minutes, helping us stay in it on the glass. Welcome back to the league Brian! May you stay for a long time. Just not for my team.
 
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Rick Adelman gets a big fat F-.

Personally, I am ready for this guy to be gone. Kenny Thomas gets in foul trouble early so Rick puts in Corliss against a tandem of 7 footers. I just can't take it anymore!!!! Perfect time to use Brian Skinner, which is the BEST matchup and of course, he avoids him like the plague. I am D-O-N-E trying to figure out Rick Adelman. He puts us in the position to be weak defensively far too often.

But otherwise definate A for Kevin Martin. This guy is a stud.
 
Bibby...A.....you would expect someone with a career high to get an A+, but Mike had only 1 reb and 4 assts, so I give him the A.

Brad...A.....nice all-around game by Brad. He came through in the clutch with a big 3 and was perfect from the line tonight with 10-10, and we needed every one of those.

Kevin...A.....His 1st double double was not enough for the A. What really ensured his A were the 4 clutch FT's at the end. And, we won by 4...imagine that.

Kenny...B-.....KT was not a huge factor, but had an ok game. He gets the (-) because of the stupid T he drew late in the game when the Magic were drawing close. Could have really hurt us. Keep your cool, KT.

Garcia...C.....Not a great game for Garcia. His 2 missed FT's late could have come up huge. Fortunately, Kevin was 4-4, Brad was 2-2, and Bibby was 2-2 after that, so we made up for Garcia's misses. His 1-6 from 3 pt range was driving me nuts. He makes 3 in one game, so he falls in love with the shot. Not when it isn't falling, Francisco. His 3 blocks and his hustle kept this grade from being lower.

Bench was a real non-factor tonight.....actually was rather poor. Fortunately, RA stayed away from the bench in the 2nd half.

Coach Adelman...B-....stayed with the players who were doing well in the 2nd half. His unwillingness to play Skinner and Brad together instead of Corliss and Brad drives me nuts. Fortunately, he had sense enough to stay with the hot hands tonight.
 
I just dont get why RA doesnt play Skinner and Brad together, especially with no Reef. Boggles my mind. Did Brian pee in his corn flakes awhile back or something?? I doubt that...so why is Brian still the Sasquatch of our team when he obviously brings energy, rebounding and defensive toughness that we dont have??
 
Circa_1985_Fan said:
I just dont get why RA doesnt play Skinner and Brad together, especially with no Reef. Boggles my mind. Did Brian pee in his corn flakes awhile back or something?? I doubt that...so why is Brian still the Sasquatch of our team when he obviously brings energy, rebounding and defensive toughness that we dont have??
I agree with you, but it's a small matter.
 
KP said:
I agree with you, but it's a small matter.

I do not think it's is a small mater we beat the Magic a team is as a bad as we are. If we play any team of significance then we lose period. We need to be better coached and Rick is failing in that regards especially in this game. Skinner needs to be played more period.
 
KP said:
I agree with you, but it's a small matter.

I think its hardly small when Rick Adelman sees a 7 foot STUD PF and thinks his best shot against him is a 6'6" SF. That speaks volumes about the direction we are headed in.
 
I think the problem is far bigger than just playing Brian Skinner, mainly for one of the reasons I stated above.

Last year we got destroyed in the paint, and yet our best paint clogger, and largest player rarely saw the court.

Fast forward to the this year and its like Peja Vu....I mean Deja Vu.
 
Circa_1985_Fan said:
I just dont get why RA doesnt play Skinner and Brad together, especially with no Reef. Boggles my mind. Did Brian pee in his corn flakes awhile back or something?? I doubt that...so why is Brian still the Sasquatch of our team when he obviously brings energy, rebounding and defensive toughness that we dont have??
hahahahaha thats funny and now in my signature!

ohhh and i totally agree but rick must see something in corliss that he saw the last time corliss was here...
 
You guys put way to much importance on Brian skinner and whether he plays or not. I agree he should get more time. But let's be honest, he brings good things and bad things, but people act like if he gets some more minutes he'll be the savior or something. He's not that kind of player, he is a roleplayer off the bench nothing more. I've seen guys get by him and grab rebounds away from him too, he's better than anyone else on our team inside on D, but that really isn't saying much.
 
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KP said:
You guys put way to much importance on Brian skinner and whether he plays or not. He brings good things and bad things, but peope act like if he gets some more minutes he'll be the savior or something. He's not that kind of player, he is a roleplayer off the bench nothing more. I've seen guys get by him and grab rebounds away from him too, he's better than anyone else on our team inside on D, but that really isn't saying much.

I think it's not just that Rick does not play Skinner when the team need him. It is that Rick always values offensive skills then defensive skills. That is been the problem with Rick every since he started coaching this team. Look at the playing time Ostertag got last year. We need a coach that values defense more then offense. Rick has always been the coach who concentrates more on offense then defense even in practice. Look at the quotes of the former Kings.
 
Martin ( A ) -- came back home and had a big game for the first time in a couple of weeks. Got me thinkng, and sure enough: Kevin home FG% this year: .457, road FG%: .407. Able to use his athleticism to find the seams in the porous Orlando defense and involved in a number of big collisions as he went crashing into the Magic's bigs around the rim. Came up with his career rebounding high, and had a great one in the last two minutes where he managed to outbattle Howard in there (and keep him from getting 20). Hit 4 big clutch FTs as he, along with the rest of the team, simply would not give the Magic the miss at the line they needed to have a chance to tie us up. Played offense so inexplicably different hatn he has been the last week or two that I don't even pretend to understand. Today was just basically running and jumping and crashing toward the rim. Complete 180 from what he's been doing. And with far more aggressiveness too (as it is more natural). Now part of it may have been that the Magic suck defensively (a common thread in many oif Kevin's big athletic games). But even so, the difference should not be THIS much. In any case, whatever. Played a great game. A critical third wheel supporting Mike and Brad.

What I saw was someone who was NOT told to just stand in the corner and wait for the ball to come to him.

;)
 
AleksandarN said:
I think it's not just that Rick does not play Skinner when the team need him. It is that Rick always values offensive skills then defensive skills. That is been the problem with Rick every since he started coaching this team. Look at the playing time Ostertag got last year. We need a coach that values defense more then offense. Rick has always been the coach who concentrates more on offense then defense even in practice. Look at the quotes of the former Kings.
I don't need to read the quotes I posted them.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9851

I can't wait till Adelman is outta here and people get what they have always wanted.. Kinda like Webb. Guy has forgotten more about coaching than any of us know.
 
KP said:
You guys put way to much importance on Brian skinner and whether he plays or not. I agree he should get more time. But let's be honest, he brings good things and bad things, but people act like if he gets some more minutes he'll be the savior or something. He's not that kind of player, he is a roleplayer off the bench nothing more. I've seen guys get by him and grab rebounds away from him too, he's better than anyone else on our team inside on D, but that really isn't saying much.

Still don't get it do you.
 
VF21 said:
What I saw was someone who was NOT told to just stand in the corner and wait for the ball to come to him.

;)
I said it before those quotes came out but I'll say it agin, I don't care what Rick is saying to Kevin, but whatever it is he's getting better. Keep it up Kevin!
 
SacTownKid said:
Rick Adelman gets a big fat F-.

Personally, I am ready for this guy to be gone. Kenny Thomas gets in foul trouble early so Rick puts in Corliss against a tandem of 7 footers. I just can't take it anymore!!!! Perfect time to use Brian Skinner, which is the BEST matchup and of course, he avoids him like the plague. I am D-O-N-E trying to figure out Rick Adelman. He puts us in the position to be weak defensively far too often.

But otherwise definate A for Kevin Martin. This guy is a stud.
I get that this is a complete overreaction^, see Bricks grade.
 
SacTownKid said:
Still don't get it do you.

Let's see if I get it...You THINK Skinner should have received more time. So because KP doesn't agree, he doesn't get it?

Please...

We can have some really great discussons without this stuff ALWAYS turning into a stupid pissing contest. Quite frankly, it gets pretty old pretty quickly.
 
People are overrating Skinner. When he first got here he was a monster, and even now occasionally he looks like he is exactly what we need on the defensive end. But the truth is, the guy had one good year with the Bucks (signed a two year deal, with a player-option on the second year) took advantage of that and became a FA after that great year. We even talked about trying to sign him that summer, if I recall, but the Sixers got to him and signed him to a 5 year deal.

Even with a defensive minded coach in Jim O'Brien running that team, he still didn't play much. Numbers look almost exactly like they do now.
 
KP said:
I don't need to read the quotes I posted them.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9851

I can't wait till Adelman is outta here and people get what they have always wanted.. Kinda like Webb. Guy has forgotten more about coaching than any of us know.

Hey I am not denying he is a great a coach. His coaching style and how he values offense more defense is what I have a problem with. Defense wins championships. We need to go in another direction we need to get better defensively and it starts with the coach. That is not saying that is all we need. A coaching change is in order no matter if you like it or not but one thing is for sure we need a coach that is more defensive minded especially since we do not have a defensive stopper like we had when Doug and Jackson was here.
 
VF21 said:
Let's see if I get it...You THINK Skinner should have received more time. So because KP doesn't agree, he doesn't get it?

Please...

We can have some really great discussons without this stuff ALWAYS turning into a stupid pissing contest. Quite frankly, it gets pretty old pretty quickly.

Merely replying in the same manner that I have been replied to in the past. :cool:

And no it isn't even Skinner. Its the idea that he won't play the best option we currently have, IMO, to "match up" with the other team.
 
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AleksandarN said:
Hey I am not denying he is a great a coach. His coaching style and how he values offense more defense is what I have a problem with. Defense wins championships. We need to go in another direction we need to get better defensively and it starts with the coach. That is not saying that is all we need. A coaching change is in order no matter if you like it or not but one thing is for sure we need a coach that is more defensive minded especially since we do not have a defensive stopper like we had when Doug and Jackson was here.
Oh a coaching change is in order definately. But a defensive minded coach isn't automatically going to translate into more wins much less a championship with this roster. You want a defensive minded bad *** team with a defense first mentality you better fire Petrie.
 
KP said:
I get that this is a complete overreaction^, see Bricks grade.

Well, I was actually fairly sarcastic in my grading as far as my intent was concerned. I just can't see a reason that a coach would put in a SF to gaurd a monster PF when I think he has a better option available. I like you KP, I really do, but I just can't go along with it. The same thing happened last year with Greg Ostertag (which is a whole debate in itself). Is Brian Skinner the savior of the franchise? of course not. I just don't see how leaving out our best shotblocker, and one of our better rebounders is going to make us better in the areas in which we so desperately need it.
 
Who cares how they won, I was just glad to see the effort! Even if this was lost at least I can say they put effort, which is a lot better than previous (which caused my tirade). :)
 
Not to be overly negative about the win, especially on a career scoring night for Bibby... but I think this quote from Brick's grades sums it up: "I guess this is what it takes for us to even beat the bad teams anymore -- a career night from one of the guys who are left." Nevertheless, a fun game to watch.

I just think it is going to be a hellish 8 game stretch coming up.
 
6th said:
Bibby...A.....you would expect someone with a career high to get an A+, but Mike had only 1 reb and 4 assts, so I give him the A.

Brad...A.....nice all-around game by Brad. He came through in the clutch with a big 3 and was perfect from the line tonight with 10-10, and we needed every one of those.

Kevin...A.....His 1st double double was not enough for the A. What really ensured his A were the 4 clutch FT's at the end. And, we won by 4...imagine that.

Kenny...B-.....KT was not a huge factor, but had an ok game. He gets the (-) because of the stupid T he drew late in the game when the Magic were drawing close. Could have really hurt us. Keep your cool, KT.

Garcia...C.....Not a great game for Garcia. His 2 missed FT's late could have come up huge. Fortunately, Kevin was 4-4, Brad was 2-2, and Bibby was 2-2 after that, so we made up for Garcia's misses. His 1-6 from 3 pt range was driving me nuts. He makes 3 in one game, so he falls in love with the shot. Not when it isn't falling, Francisco. His 3 blocks and his hustle kept this grade from being lower.

Bench was a real non-factor tonight.....actually was rather poor. Fortunately, RA stayed away from the bench in the 2nd half.

Coach Adelman...B-....stayed with the players who were doing well in the 2nd half. His unwillingness to play Skinner and Brad together instead of Corliss and Brad drives me nuts. Fortunately, he had sense enough to stay with the hot hands tonight.


Have to disagree with Garcia's grade. Drop him down to a D- of even an F. 1-7 from the field and 1-4 from the line with 3 t/o and 3 pf. If this was the stats from a 15 min stint, I would agree with you. But for 48 min?

Adleman should get a C for leaving Garcia in for the entire game.
 
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