Grades v. Jazz 11/28

Who did we need to see more of before garbagetime?

  • Spencer Hawes

    Votes: 13 22.4%
  • Jason Thompson

    Votes: 35 60.3%
  • Bobby Brown

    Votes: 5 8.6%
  • Francisco Garcia

    Votes: 5 8.6%

  • Total voters
    58
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Alright everyone, on three with me! One...Two...Three!

"Tis the Season To Be..." :o

Ah hell, forget it. Tied at half, down 27 after three. Whoopee!


Greene ( D+ ) -- for reasons only known to Reggie, was the only kid on the way to major minutes before the rout opened up a gulf of garbage minutes for the rest of them. This was a shaky grade because I just don't know what to make of Donte's play of late. This is a kid who figured to have a lot of offensive talent, but everything else was a question mark, and yet he goes out there and just...nothing. Not involved at all. Can't say he hurt us exactly, but for all his contributions they might as well have just had me out there. I can stand in a corner picking my butt as everybody ignores me as well as the next guy (and I'm mean too, which might come in handy the next time we are being blown off the floor and some jackass throws a showboating off the backboard pass to his man for a dunk). Got the start and a lot of first half minutes (13), but again it was that odd "I'm not really out here just ignore me" approach for Donte, and he finsihed the half with zero points on 0-1 shooting. Not hurting, but just not a part of anything. Don't know whether Reggie has told him just go out there and run around and don't screw up, or what, but it seems reasonably pointless and he might as well be the next Ira Newble right now. Started the third quarter too as we began to get blown away, and then had even more minutes open up as the embarrassment of the third quarter left the entire 4th free to just play the kids through the garbage minutes. But its not as if its just the world's oldest suck-team starting lineup freezing out the kid -- he didn't do anything in the garbage minutes with the fellow kids either. 30 minutes, zero points on 0-4 shooting.

Moore ( C ) -- oh wonderful, now NEITHER of our young bigs gets to play. Mikki back to starting and grabbing 15 minutes before half, because you know, young guys have to do something real special to knock Mikki from his diety-appointed perch. Did nothing of note out there, normal Mikki stuff. 4pts 3rebs, drew an offensive foul, committed a bunch of his own. Got lucky to have Boozer still out for this one and only had to contend with Paul Milsap instead. Needs to go back to school along with the rest of our bigs on Mehmet 101. Not sure why guarding a 3pt chucking big man should be much of a problem for our guys, as Okur is apparently an idol to most of our bigs and they must see it all the time in practice. Only a handul of minutes after half as the rout was on and Reggie finally decided to let the young guys on the court once it no longer mattered.

Miller ( C+ ) -- was effective before halftime as we remained competitive. Had two three point plays on soft Jazz fouls (not often you hear that) in the first period and ran the offense well before Beno picked it up in the late second quarter. But like the rest of our bigs, seemed to have no answer for fellow "All Star" Mehmet Okur. Second half was a different story as Brad became a significant early contributor to oour collapse, passively throwing up bricked jumpers from around the perimeter and totally eschewing any sort of defenseive hustle. Obviously did not play in the 4th.

Salmons ( B- ) -- strong offensive first half again as the Jazz really weren't playing much defense and couldn't find the appropriate matchup on John. You would think athletic stealmeister Brewer, but didn't work that way as John had 16 or 18 at the break. This was still more of a stealth half though, as you never really got the feeling that John was truly dominating, and he wasn't doin much of anything but getting his own poinits. The lack of dominance was kind of underlined in the third, when he was a complete nonfactor as we got blown off the floor and boith Brewer an Miles, his matchups, basically matched his production for the evening in even shorter minutes.

Udrih ( B- ) -- good first half running the team. Wasn't doing much to stop Deron of course, but in the second quarter in particular was hitting all the open guys as we hung in there and even eventually tied it up. But the competitive PG matchup evaporated in the third when Deron carved us up like leftover turkey and Beno was helpless to stop it. These grades are difficult -- Beno had a good first half, but the complete third quarter collapse, on defense in particular, is a hard thing to balance. And on another night where we got burned from deep, Beno is a major culprit in our terrible 3pt defense as well.

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Hawes ( B ) -- here's one of those nigh impossible grades in a game like this. While the game was actually on, Spencer did nothing. Got into quick foul trouble and only played a handful of first half minutes in which he did almost nothing. Highlight was getting a little hook over Kirlenko inside. But as the wheels came flying off in the third, Spencer showed up around the middle of the quarter with us down 20 or so, and played out the entire string of garbagetime. And he played well, offensively at least (on defense he got burned repeatedly), and was shooting over stubby Paul Milsap at will inside, and then pasty young Euros Fesenko and Koufos. But of course it was all in garbagetime, against lesser competition, as the teams just ran up and down the floor playing out the string. If Spencer was a garbagetime player, you only knock off a little I think -- its all you have to go on. But Spencer is a rotation player, or at least was until Reggie started getting all his precious vets back to force all the kids into cheerleading roles. So beating up on scrubbies in a low intensity glorified summer league game isn't where its at for him. So some level of markoff here. Did not matter when we needed him to matter. Played well when we did not.

Brown ( D ) -- at least Bobby made this grade easier, as he didn't do anything in either the real game OR garbagetime. Spent most of minutes, both his brief first half stint, and then the long garbage run, matched up with ex-Kings scrubbie Ronnie Price, and Ronnie clearly got the better of it all night. In the first half largely nothing at all, and after returning it was more of the same. Did notch a few assists, but not much else. Even found a way to make Memo look like an intimidating shotblocker on one drive destined to end up on aposter, or at least a Memo powerpoint presentation on his defensive skills next time he's a FA. Suppose it should be noted as a good thing that rather than gunning selfishly he stayed out of the way as our young bigs had strong garbagetime minutes.

Cisco ( B ) -- despite the generalized ugliness of this one, not at all a bad little return to action for Cisco. Now obviously not what we are going to need from him eventually, but for a first game back, and first game of the season? Respectable. Not much offense, but looked good on defense both staying in front of his man (not that tough with Korver), and flying around trying to block shots. Didn't start to get stupid with his offense until the second half -- that of course being one of the ways this could have gone wrong -- Cisco gunning like an idiot for an abysmal night. But he didn't -- stayed within himself until the end, played defense and generally helped on a night when few did. 2pts 2ast and 2blks are hardly a career highlight, but about all you could ask for in his first game back. Combined with Donte's lackluster play, this might be the last we see of the rookie getting major minutes for a long time here unless Geoff does something.

Jackson ( C+ ) -- much less involved than in recent gaems, as I think Cisco's rememergence probably spells the end of Bobby as 25-30min a night guy (and obviously given will further dunk those minutes). Shot looked better, and it helped that he wasn't chucking up bricked threes and stayed within the arc this time (the heart may be willing as he goes for daggers, but the old legs have Bobby shooting an abysmal 15% from 3pt land so far this year). No impact though, and obviously not able to remotely stem the third quarter tide before handing the 4th over to Douby. Bobby's best moment of the night? This postgame quote:
"Everybody uses the excuse, 'We ain't healthy, we ain't full strength,' but what's healthy got to do with effort?" Jackson began as he got dressed. "What's healthy got to do with playing defense? We shoot the ball, and everybody wants to (expletive) shoot it and not get back on defense. Nobody wants to take a foul and everybody wants to take a jumpshot. It ain't about leadership. It's about effort and having pride in yourself as an individual and as a basketball player."


Thompson ( B ) -- oh yay. Our #1 pick, averaging 12 and 7 for much of the year, now gets in for 6 minutes a half so that we can clear up minutes for Mikki Moore. :rolleyes: Overmatched by AK47 off the bench as well, and finished with an anemic 2pts 2rebs line while the game was still on. Like Spencer, then came on to seriously pad his stats (and help my fantasy teams) in the extended garbagetime. Bounced around, finished inside, the normal stuff. Also got a bit loose, turned it over, and chucked a three. Like Spencer I consider him a bit above dominating a garbagetime, and like Spencer he also wasn't of any use while we were still trying to win this one. So I'm going to cap his grade at the same level. At least we finally found a way for Reggie to give the kid minutes -- just get blown off the court and open up the 4th quarter for some chuck and duck.

Williams ( INC ) -- in at the end of the first half because of foul trouble on our frontline, although why Reggie should care about foul trouble to our kids playing less than 10 minutes off the bench I do not know. Had a solid finish inside that could have been an +1 if he had hit his FTs. Back for a quick splotch of garbagetime, durring which his body language was noticeably slouchy.

Douby ( C ) -- No minutes at all in this one while it was still a game, and obviously our 12th man. Got to run the full 12 minutes of the 4th though, whihc we began down 27 and ended down 26. So see? We won the minutes while Douby was out there. Was not his normal garbagetime superstar self, and chucked up relatively few shots. Instead showed a welcome focus on passing the ball, and had several nice assists.
 
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Theus ( D ) -- In a game that bore shades of the Portland game in Arco a week ago (where we turned a 6pt halftime deficit into 25 by the end of the third) and of the earlier Lakers game (where they had 7 double figure scorers) we managed to take a first half tie and turn it into an amazing 27pt deficit by the end of the third quarter. The 44pts scored against us in the quarter the most given up by any team in any quarter all season so far. And the Jazz did this without their best player (Boozer) in uniform, and so picked us apart by sharing the wealth -- 8 different Jazz players reached double figures. The maestro behind this was of course Deron Williams, who must have made basketball purists everywhere proud with his great heads up find every open passing lane approach to the PG position last night. And the Kings? Well, for a half we looked competitive. And so far has the Kings brand fallen at this point, that you look competitive, you actually go into a halftime not behind, and its as exciting as a 20pt halftime lead used to be back in the good ole days. But the third quarer...that was just embarrassing. A true Muss koolaid job at halftime apaprently -- the Jazz came out of half determined to put us out of our misery, and we came out of halftime apparently having shared a bowl with Brad. No energy, no intensity, flat as a board and just passively chucking up jumpers and half assing it back on defense. Just terrible. At least during the Muss season it was a pattern and it seemed clear that Muss was indeed drugging the team at halftime and putting them to sleep with inspriring halftime speeches. But this year...its just bizarre. Sometimes we come roaring out of the 3rd quarter gate, at other times we are completely asleep. There does not have to be a pattern to these things, but the wild extremes we have experienced are just hard to figure out. If we were truly a "young team" as we try to claim it would be one thing, but most of these big swing games have involved hoary old vets that have no place on a rebuilding team anyway. Which introduces the next topic: PLAY THE DAMN KIDS REGGIE! Mikki Moore's return as a starter is just compeltely inexcusable, and I cannot remotely imagine which constituency Reggie thinks he is appeasing with such a maneuver. Maybe Mikki's mom, but even she is probably throwing things at her TV at this point and calling him an idiot for making her son into public enemy #1. Here's a little stat for you (or maybe its for Reggie): Brad Miller+Mikki Moore combined starting stats: 58.4min 18.9pts 12.4reb 5.7ast 1.4stl 0.9blk; Spencer Hawes&Jason Thompson combined starting stats: 61.7min 23.5pts 14.8reb 2.6ast 2.7stl 2.2blk. In any case, we are spiraling, we are spiraling with old men dominating the minutes, and our only two points of light in this season are being progressively forced further and further back in the rotation for the sake of...nothing. thank god for garbagetime tonight, or JT would have had trouble breaking into double figure minutes, and Hawes would have been under 15. And again for what? With a tough upcoming schedule this thing could be over with by New Years, and maybe that would be the best thing. Skid on into the next year with 10 or so wins vs. 20+losses, set aside the playoff ridiculousness, and get serious about developing our future. Because right now, we don't know what the hell we are doing. Rewggie gets whatever little grade he does here for our half of comeptitive ball, however acheived, and for at least turning the entire 4th over to the kids. The rest? Ugh.
 
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I really can't understand why Theus is starting Moore. Not only does it take playing time away from the Kids, but he's just been awful out there. He's averaging 6 points and 4 rebounds per game...didn't he get the full MLE at one point? I just ran the math, and he's being paid $11,842.30 per point, or $16,353.65 per rebound, depending on how you want to slice the turkey. That's almost $1,000 more per point then Kobe Bryant.
 
If anyone watched Utah last night, they would have enjoyed watching a well coached team. Everyone touches the ball. Everyone moves without the ball. They attack you from everywhere, and always seem to get someone open with an easy shot.

When Mehmet gets a double/double and looks like an all-star against Miller and Moore, well folks, something is very wrong. I actually felt sorry for Greene in the third quarter, when he had to be out on the floor with four vets that were playing with the intensity of a dead fish.

People may disagree with me, but in my opinion, the Kings are not a well coached team. They're offense is very predictable, and they're defense goes from decent to nonexistant. The only time the offense wasn't predictable last night, was in the fourth quarter. And thats probably because all the young guys were out there, and even they didn't know what they were going to do.

I think Jackson summed it up in the Bee this morning. He said all these guys want to do, is come down and take a jump shot, and then forget to run down to the other end of the floor and play defense.
 
OUCH! That hurt. Both the third quarter and the contradiction about Leadership from Theus and BJax. One said leadership or lack thereof was the problem in the 3rd and the other said leadership was fine but there was no effort. Hmmmmmm :rolleyes:

Sumthin' does not right sound here. How could a team fight and defend as they did to get a 50-50 tie at halftime on the road to a good team then disappear in the second half. We both made comments in the 2nd quarter to the effect that the way the Kings are playing they could win this game. Then BOOM!

I saw next to no movement, no backdoor plays (haven't seen but a couple of them in a week). No perimeter 3pt defense. Ok a little in the 2nd but that was it.

What is going on??? Where is the problem? Is/was Kevin THAT important to the workings of the team?

Thank goodness we had a good stash of recorded programs to fall back on for a Friday night entertainment. There sure wasn't any basketball games to watch (2nd half game).
 
People may disagree with me, but in my opinion, the Kings are not a well coached team. They're offense is very predictable, and they're defense goes from decent to nonexistant. The only time the offense wasn't predictable last night, was in the fourth quarter. And thats probably because all the young guys were out there, and even they didn't know what they were going to do.

I think Jackson summed it up in the Bee this morning. He said all these guys want to do, is come down and take a jump shot, and then forget to run down to the other end of the floor and play defense.

That hits the nail on the head better than anything I've heard. When a player, an experienced veteran at that, disagrees with the coach about leadership then we see the schoolyard play of the second half in Utah, the fact there is a problem now becomes glaring.
 
I chose JT in the poll with the proviso that he is having a good game. Actually, whoever is having a good game, whether it is shooting lights out; defending their best player; or, whatever.
 
great game, i have okur on my fantasy team. :D it's gotten to the point where i giddily circle the dates that my players are up against the kings.

when life hands you lemons...
 
If anyone watched Utah last night, they would have enjoyed watching a well coached team. Everyone touches the ball. Everyone moves without the ball. They attack you from everywhere, and always seem to get someone open with an easy shot.

When Mehmet gets a double/double and looks like an all-star against Miller and Moore, well folks, something is very wrong. I actually felt sorry for Greene in the third quarter, when he had to be out on the floor with four vets that were playing with the intensity of a dead fish.

People may disagree with me, but in my opinion, the Kings are not a well coached team. They're offense is very predictable, and they're defense goes from decent to nonexistent. The only time the offense wasn't predictable last night, was in the fourth quarter. And that's probably because all the young guys were out there, and even they didn't know what they were going to do.

I think Jackson summed it up in the Bee this morning. He said all these guys want to do, is come down and take a jump shot, and then forget to run down to the other end of the floor and play defense.

One of the things I've always liked about Bobby Jackson is he calls 'em like he sees 'em. I'm sure he'll pay for those comments, most likely by disappearing from the lineup for a while, but he hit the nail on the head. What he's describing is a team in chaos, a ship without a rudder, and a head coach who seems hell-bent on shooting himself in the foot enough times to put him into involuntary retirement.

...sigh...

And tonight we face a Dallas team that got slapped in the 4th quarter by the Lakers last night? I am so glad I'm not going to be there. This may be more reminiscent of a bout between the lions and the Christians than anything resembling a sporting event.

I love our team but I am past losing patience with our prima donna coach.

PLAY THE KIDS, REGGIE! And, just for giggles, try playing them in their proper positions.

To enforce the concept, I personally believe he should be fined $100,000 for each minute a veteran plays while one of the kids sits and stews on the bench.

Yes, I'm more than a bit frustrated.
 
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Yes, I'm more than a bit frustrated.

wow, you know things are bad when even the most optimistic of optimists are frustrated. :p look on the bright side...at least the kids are seeing some playing time...that's more than i expected coming into this season!
 
wow, you know things are bad when even the most optimistic of optimists are frustrated. :p!

I didn't want to come out and say it, but you are 100% right. Things is bad.


Also, Brick, thank you for this golden line:

Bricklayer said:
A true Muss koolaid job at halftime apaprently -- the Jazz came out of half determined to put us out of our misery, and we came out of halftime apparently having shared a bowl with Brad.
 
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