[Grades] Grades v. Jazz 11/23/2012

[HereWeBoogie]

also the fact that the coach felt pressured to play Jimmer big minutes just because the game was in Utah shows that he is a stupid horrible coach

 

[HereWeBoogie]

"All you had to do was do the right thing and close the game out the right way. We tried to go one-on-one and we lost the ball, we had bad shots.”

ya well when u have your bench, plus a 3rd string guy "Jimmer" in there against the Utah starters its not that easy for them to do the right thing. dumbass coach

 

[mac]

Lalala well ... all I can say is "I told you so!". Playing with fire. Does it every single ****ing game - hope those of you who have been defending him finally get what the rest of us mean.

The funny thing is I was about to give a comment something along the lines of: If they can execute a halfcourt offense like this every night I'll be ok with Smart as a coach. Because this game, unlike the Lakers one, had us actually running plays on the offensive end. But I forgot about that one tiny Smart nuance which I strongly feel cost us the game. It's ridiculous. No NBA coach with half a brain would do such a thing. Ask any of the great, experienced players and they will laugh their ***es off at the notion of putting your best guy (which Tyreke was for this game) back in at the 3 min mark of the 4th down 1 or whatever it was.

We are not reaching the playoffs with Keith Smart as coach - I am fairly confident of this.

 

[macadocious]

Anyone notice that Thorton's +/- was -13?

With as good as he played, how bad is that for lineup management?

 

[LWP777]

Does have "some skills". Lol.

Been watching this game for 30 years. His "some skills" are in the Top 10 of all the bigs who have come in the league at that time. Meanwhile, back in the good ole days he'd still be a senior in college.

His "skills" don't mean jack. He's mentally weak and has the temper of a 2 year old. I doubt that will ever change. There have been many, many players in the league that had incredible talent but didn't amount to anything. He's not a franchise player. Period.

 

[mac]

I'm dreaming of a scenario where Smart goes to the media and says Tyreke has asked to be traded, following which we fire him a day or two later.

 

[mac]

Does have "some skills". Lol.

Been watching this game for 30 years. His "some skills" are in the Top 10 of all the bigs who have come in the league at that time. Meanwhile, back in the good ole days he'd still be a senior in college.

The more I watch Cuz play (this season at least), the more I feel that he doesn't have the mindset to be a franchise player. You're right that he has a lot of skills many other bigs can only dream of, but he also lacks some that bigs routinely have. When we drafted him, the whole story was that this was a guy who played with fire, that we'd rather have a guy who plays with passion than someone who doesn't. Yet, game after game I see him strolling up the court, playing with terrible body language, which doesn't bode well for his team mates. You couple that with JT who very similarly gets easily frustrated and it makes for a "weak" frontcourt. I think Cuz would probably attempt to murder guys like Barkley if he played against them back in the day.

Here's the thing - are we surrounding him with the leadership necessary to harness his skills? Or are we just babying him? If we just baby him, and he gets upset at every coach who tries to coach him, he's still going to be a very good player, but probably not the HOFer that he can be.

 

[jayzfelon]

Today*11:36 PM #8
jayzfelon
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The problem is tyreke sat too long in the fourth. He came back in and our lead was gone. Also every time we have the lead in the fourth and we try to kill the clock we always fail to make plays with less than 10 seconds. This team is not good under pressure yet. We have momentum and seems to be working why stop attacking? Keep the flow of the game it was going our direction. ATTACK!!! Petrie pls fire smart!!!

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I picked "Smart's a genius" just to be an absolute troll on the poll. At this point, it's time to just nuke the entire team from orbit.

 

[Kingsfan23]

The more I watch Cuz play (this season at least), the more I feel that he doesn't have the mindset to be a franchise player. You're right that he has a lot of skills many other bigs can only dream of, but he also lacks some that bigs routinely have. When we drafted him, the whole story was that this was a guy who played with fire, that we'd rather have a guy who plays with passion than someone who doesn't. Yet, game after game I see him strolling up the court, playing with terrible body language, which doesn't bode well for his team mates. You couple that with JT who very similarly gets easily frustrated and it makes for a "weak" frontcourt. I think Cuz would probably attempt to murder guys like Barkley if he played against them back in the day.

Here's the thing - are we surrounding him with the leadership necessary to harness his skills? Or are we just babying him? If we just baby him, and he gets upset at every coach who tries to coach him, he's still going to be a very good player, but probably not the HOFer that he can be.

This is his 3rd year, its put up or shut up time... People on here often speak of Big Cuz as if he is a surefire 20/10 rock of a big man, which isn't the case yet... still shooting badly, still showing up one night taking the next off and fouling - not going to cut it

 

[exGrizzly]

This is going to be good...love the (anticipation) of the theme. Thanks. I will contribute Patrick Roy and Mario Tremblay -- Montreal Canadians -- mid-game killed the franchise for ...

 

[The_Jamal]

Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones
Reke on asking Smart to go back in game: “I don’t want to seem like I’m trying to get points or something like that. But I do want to win,"
Retweeted by International i

Smart on if he considered putting Evans back in the game sooner:

Well, then pull guys out of the game. WTH kind of an answer is that? Because guys were going 1v1, losing the ball and taking bad shots, you can't put Reke back in?

That literally makes no sense. Because the other guys are playing poorly and not running the offense, I can't put Reke back in.....

It's not a response. He flat out avoided the question and tried to pass the blame on the offense going to hell (which it did, but that's not the point).

The bench played strong for 4-5 minutes and the Jazz started to gain momentum around the 7:30 mark. All Smart had to do was going back to the Starters at that point for another 3-5 minutes to close this one out and we go home with a 10+ point win. We missed a huge potential opportunity to turn a corner with this franchise. Utah is an incredible team at home and have blown out some of the best teams this season by double digits. Between beating killing the Lakers, Reke's resurgence, and role players finding roles, we actually looked like an incredibly competitive team. Smart destroyed that opportunity for this team

 

[mac]

It's not a response. He flat out avoided the question and tried to pass the blame on the offense going to hell (which it did, but that's not the point).

The bench played strong for 4-5 minutes and the Jazz started to gain momentum around the 7:30 mark. All Smart had to do was going back to the Starters at that point for another 3-5 minutes to close this one out and we go home with a 10+ point win. We missed a huge potential opportunity to turn a corner with this franchise. Utah is an incredible team at home and have blown out some of the best teams this season by double digits. Between beating killing the Lakers, Reke's resurgence, and role players finding roles, we actually looked like an incredibly competitive team. Smart destroyed that opportunity for this team

Exactly. As the coach, if your guys are not executing and you see a 13 point lead dwindling why are you telling them to go out and execute when you have a player who's gotten his rest sitting on the bench? It's just sheer stupidity and an unwillingness to pull Thornton or Salmons in favor of Tyreke. Why is he playing with fire when our lead is starting to diminish? We essentially put Tyreke in when we were only up 3, momentum completely in the Jazz's favor with Cuz at the line, so we go up by 5. I remember a game we had against the Spurs, where we cut a huge 20 point deficit into something around 10 points. He put Parker, Ginobili and Duncan back in and they closed out the game and won by 15 or something.

The most ridiculous thing I'm seeing on some other platforms is fans defending Smart because Tyreke looked exhausted ... in the 3rd quarter, and so he was justified in keeping Tyreke on the bench as long as he could. If that's the case, he should have benched Tyreke around 2-3 min mark of the 3rd, and then put him back in to close out the game if necessary. No, brighter idea is to ride him for 2-3 minutes when he's exhausted and then put him in after 12 minutes of rest when Jazz have cut the lead by 10 points.

 

[rainmaker]

It's not a response. He flat out avoided the question and tried to pass the blame on the offense going to hell (which it did, but that's not the point).

The bench played strong for 4-5 minutes and the Jazz started to gain momentum around the 7:30 mark. All Smart had to do was going back to the Starters at that point for another 3-5 minutes to close this one out and we go home with a 10+ point win. We missed a huge potential opportunity to turn a corner with this franchise. Utah is an incredible team at home and have blown out some of the best teams this season by double digits. Between beating killing the Lakers, Reke's resurgence, and role players finding roles, we actually looked like an incredibly competitive team. Smart destroyed that opportunity for this team

Here's a few more from the Bee:

"We fell apart," said Kings head coach Keith Smart.

How did the Kings fall apart?

"We started doing one-on-one, we turned the ball over, unfinished plays," Smart said. "Everything we had done to get us in that position on the road in this building, against this team where you don't win often, and we just (let) the game get away."

"Mental mistakes," Smart said. "Mistakes down the stretch. Fouling, fouling, fouling put us in a tough situation."

Tyreke Evans might have been the Kings' best player but was on the bench for most of the Jazz comeback. Evans finished with a team-high 19 points but played just the last 3:06 of the final quarter and was scoreless.

"We were up and the team had a good flow," said Smart when asked if Evans could have come back into the game sooner. "All you had to do was do the right thing and close the game out the right way. We tried to go one-on-one, and we lost the ball, we had bad shots."

Evans said he didn't consider asking Smart to go back in during Utah's comeback.

"Nah, I'm not that type of player," Evans said. "I don't want to seem like I'm trying to get points or something like that. But I do want to win. He's the coach at the end of the day. If he feels like putting me in, he puts me in, and that's all I can do."

I just don't get it. He's saying the bench players he had out there screwed up, but there's zero acknowledgement of the fact he's the one who put them out there and he had better players in starters, on the bench. He blames the bench for poor execution and acts like there's nothing he could do about it as our head coach. The game just got away? Well, why'd you leave those players out there that let it get away without making adjustments. It's your damn job to make adjustments, not just throw the bench out there against Utah's starters and tell them to deal with it, and if you fail I'm blaming you.

This has been my contention all along. Even when the bench does play well he tends to ride them too long, but more importantly he plays them extended minutes no matter how they're playing. It's not performance based and ignores the momentum/matchups/hot hand within games. It's why I never believed he simply rode the hot bench during the LAL game, as for that to be true it would mean he pulls the bench when they aren't playing well, yet we see Reke rotting over there game in game out. He does this all the time, and the LAL game had more to do with that just being his random *** sub pattern rather than actually pin pointing the bench playing well, as he plays the bench that long regardless.

Tonight just highlighted the problem which has repeated itself this season. Smart makes no distinction between the bench playing well or not, their minutes are predetermined. Every once in a while it may work out, but most of the time it isn't/won't, and tonight was a glaring example of that.

 

[mac]

Here's a few more from the Bee:


I just don't get it. He's saying the bench players he had out there screwed up, but there's zero acknowledgement of the fact he's the one who put them out there and he had better players in starters, on the bench. He blames the bench for poor execution and acts like there's nothing he could do about it as our head coach. The game just got away? Well, why'd you leave those players out there that let it get away without making adjustments. It's your damn job to make adjustments, not just throw the bench out there against Utah's starters and tell them to deal with it, and if you fail I'm blaming you.

This has been my contention all along. Even when the bench does play well he tends to ride them too long, but more importantly he plays them extended minutes no matter how they're playing. It's not performance based and ignores the momentum/matchups/hot hand within games. It's why I never believed he simply rode the hot bench during the LAL game, as for that to be true it would mean he pulls the bench when they aren't playing well, yet we see Reke rotting over there game in game out. He does this all the time, and the LAL game had more to do with that just being his random *** sub pattern rather than actually pin pointing the bench playing well, as he plays the bench that long regardless.

Tonight just highlighted the problem which has repeated itself this season. Smart makes no distinction between the bench playing well or not, their minutes are predetermined. Every once in a while it may work out, but most of the time it isn't/won't, and tonight was a glaring example of that.

The worst part is nobody on the team is going to want to play hard for the coach. What's the point? Tyreke did all you could ask this game - creating for others and hitting his jumpshots. Smart still decided to bench him. At some point you've got to realise that this isn't elementary school. Throw that "we don't have any star players who can give you a blablabla statline on any given night" BS out the window. The reason why they can't is because when they start putting together a good game Smart benches them for large periods of the game. I don't see what's wrong with just accepting Cuz and Tyreke and Thornton as the foundation of the team and building around them. It happens on every single team - every single good team has players who know their roles.

If I'm Tyreke I don't bother asking the coach to put me in either. If the coach is that dumb to not do it himself then let the loss be on his head. Eventually people will notice when you put up 15-5 in 3 quarters on any given night with solid defense but don't play the majority of the 4th quarter. If the team is really all about family and want to win they should stick up for each other and tell Smart to get his act together.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

If the team is really all about family and want to win they should stick up for each other and tell Smart to get his act together.

ya the players need to call a meeting with Petrie or something. tell him the coach needs to get his **** together. even the crappy players on the team probably realize who needs to be playing and who doesnt

 

[LWP777]

It's very obvious that Smart is incompetent. Just look at how he's managed end of quarter situations many times this year. Taking a foul when there's a differential on the clock thus giving the opponent the ball with no time on the shot clock, failing to execute 2 for 1 opportunities (or even recognize that they exist), etc. This is a huge giveaway that he's totally clueless on how to manage a basketball team. Couple that with a lot of players who have extremely low basketball IQ's and you have a total mess on your hands.

 

[UK_King]

everthings been said that needs to be but...

been saying it all season, we had back to back pick and roll plays with Reke and Cuz and we smoked them twice, completely unguardable and we never.... ever went back to it.

 

[treach1976]

"All you had to do was do the right thing and close the game out the right way. We tried to go one-on-one and we lost the ball, we had bad shots.”

ya well when u have your bench, plus a 3rd string guy "Jimmer" in there against the Utah starters its not that easy for them to do the right thing. dumbass coach

I think he was calling out Reke on that comment. I agree that Reke should have been in sooner, but it seems to me like he was saying "I put Reke in to close the game and he went one-on-one, lost the ball, etc.". I don't think he was talking about the bench players doing the right thing.

 

[UK_King]

Don't forget the 2 "dumbass" fouls by cuz which put the Jazz at the line twice in the last 2 minutes, the first one came from a poor turnover by him.

If you watch the plays down the stretch Brooks was also guilty of dominating the ball for me, he had ample opportunity to feed cousins twice on good separations from P&R plays and he decided to keep the ball.

Ok maybe Cuz misses but you'd rather have him wide open than the shots we ended up getting where Evans was forced to create with 7 or less on the shot clock.

Say what you want about the "dumbass" coaching but he didn't commit those two needless fouls in the backcourt.

 

[Goo]

"Mental mistakes," Smart said. "Mistakes down the stretch. Fouling, fouling, fouling put us in a tough situation."

Maybe he is calling our himself on that comment =)

I am wondering what are the assistant coach doing, did they give any advises to Coach "I am" Smart? If not all them need to go as well.

 

[UK_King]

He's right. Maybe it was his mistake that brought the Jazz within reach, but the game was lost because of poor play and absolutely awful, needless fouls. Simple.

 

[Agent23]

everthings been said that needs to be but...

been saying it all season, we had back to back pick and roll plays with Reke and Cuz and we smoked them twice, completely unguardable and we never.... ever went back to it.

I got giddy when I saw them running that. They should be doing that at least 35 times a game. It was ridiculously effective.

 

[UK_King]

I got giddy when I saw them running that. They should be doing that at least 35 times a game. It was ridiculously effective.

Same, when you consider the talents of the two players it's actually scary how effective it could be.

 

[King Baller]

8 minutes....that is all that had to be done. Every coach in the world knows that 8 minutes is the magic time to bring back your best player which Tyreke was last night.

Smart would be a good assistant. His game time player management is horrible.

KB

 

[pshn80]

Read most of the above. Tough loss. Team mainly played well. Third gulch game in a row. Very encouraging. Especially for me. I was at the two previous home games which were two of the ugliest I've seen in my 28 years of season-ticketholderhood. So improvement continues. You folks are not too encouraging to read. Keep up the good work and the wins will come.

 

[UK_King]

I mean isn't this so obvious?

 

[iowamcnabb]

To be fair regarding the starters coming back in... Cousins came back in when the lead was still ten, brooks came in when the lead was still 9. Evans came in with the lead at 4. Bottom line is the game was lost at the stripe. Both cousins and Evans committed stupid fouls with the jazz in the penalty and neither could create any offense when it mattered.

 

[The_Jamal]

To be fair regarding the starters coming back in... Cousins came back in when the lead was still ten, brooks came in when the lead was still 9. Evans came in with the lead at 4. Bottom line is the game was lost at the stripe. Both cousins and Evans committed stupid fouls with the jazz in the penalty and neither could create any offense when it mattered.

They all should have been back in around the 7:30 mark. The bench played well for the first 4 minutes of the 4th, but it was obvious they were losing momentum and effectiveness around that time. A good coach would put his starters back in at that point for the next 5 minutes. We would have had a 10+ point win had the starters come in at the right time.

 

[tyreeeke]

To be fair regarding the starters coming back in... Cousins came back in when the lead was still ten, brooks came in when the lead was still 9. Evans came in with the lead at 4. Bottom line is the game was lost at the stripe. Both cousins and Evans committed stupid fouls with the jazz in the penalty and neither could create any offense when it mattered.

The starters lost the game, not the bench. I am baffled by the ignorance concerning this fact.