[Grades] Grades v. Heat and Three Guys Who Had Money on the Game 11/1/2016

[Blob]

I'm also curious as to why you keep harping on Cousins left hand but fail to address the initial Whiteside right forearm into Cousins side that impeded his drive that initiated everything ?

Boogie takes one dribble then grabs his left arm out at the free throw line before he even gets near the rim. That's an easy and obvious offensive foul. He initiated the contact with Whiteside before he did anything to impede him. I just watched it again to affirm what I saw the first and second time. It's not even debatable. The right forearm occurred after Boogie grabbed his arm. You'd have to be totally oblivious to unequivocal visual evidence to come to a different conclusion.

* NOTE * I don't take any pleasure in coming to this conclusion, just calling it as I see it!!

 

[dude12]

I correctly predicted this BS response from usual train of Boogie naysayers. It's beyond weak. Worse yet, it's hypocritical. Blaming Cousins for his behaviour while not at all holding the officials responsible for their behaviour. Where's the criticism directed at them? After all, they should be held to a much higher standard than any player or coach.

They are a paid 3rd party that above all else is supposed to be objective, non-partisan and unbiased. Their job, while perhaps not easy, is simple. Enforce the rules. Whatever their personal feelings are toward any one specific player, the league cannot have overwhelming bias from their officials. It destroys the integrity of the game.

While a call here and there may go against a player due to reputation, last night was overwhelming. 6 fouls in 1 QTR -- 5 of which were highly questionable. And at least 4 were so blatantly bad that the only plausible call was on the other team. Whiteside traveled on 2 occasions, grabbed Boogie as he ran through the lane w/0 the ball on another occasion, and rode his hip to prevent him from getting by -- which caused Boogie's counter move -- on the last play. I can at least understand an argument for the last play being a non-call, but the others were 180 degrees wrong.

Again, I'm not surprised at all that some are making this about Cuz. That's what they do. That's their M.O. But, if it didn't already happen a long time ago, they are losing any credibility they had left by ignoring the officials role and, worse yet, not holding them to an even higher standard.

There is no credibility with them. It's just opportunistic bashing and a stubborn refusal to acknowledge facts. This game is certainly not the time to continue to push their agenda. Egregious and moronic.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Video of 3 bad calls.

2 by Tevin.

https://streamable.com/75ks

 

[kupman]

I really do not see what all the fuss is about. DMC clearly uses his left arm to hook around Whiteside's left arm, effectively taking away his shot blocking hand. This is, indeed, an offensive foul.

 

[Blob]

Video of 3 bad calls.

2 by Tevin.

https://streamable.com/75ks

That's a bad camera angle. The sideline ref can't see the hold by Cousins. The baseline ref sees the hold and makes the call.

 

[Glenn]

It may be a different Kings team but the end result is all in the same. Some things never change. It's not the end of the world, it's just puzzling to me why they can't beat these two teams.

It's a long plane ride?

 

[Glenn]

Sorry but there is an elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Cousins with all of his theatrics, arm waving, scowling, questioning calls, arguing, and animated behavior cost the Kings the game. Referees by the time they get to the NBA level have seen it all. They know the importance of controlling the game. They don't want it to get too physical. Some refs like the 3 last night, get tired of players like Cousins, so they sent him clear messages several times to just shut and play. He fell into the trap and just got more emotional. That is precisely why there were some close calls that all went against the Kings and caused Cousins to foul out. It was not bad officiating. It was very clear officiating to send a message that Cousins never figured out.

There is an unwritten rule to let a play go, no matter who fouls who, at the end of the game. Officials do not want to decide the outcome of a game. So I've been told.

 

[Blob]

Here's the official review from the NBA, substantiating what I have been saying:

Cousins (SAC) initiates contact to Whiteside’s (MIA) arm and holds it through his drive to the basket, affecting Whiteside’s ability to defend. Even though Whiteside makes contact to Cousins’ hip during the drive, the offensive foul is correctly called.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Boogie takes one dribble then grabs his left arm out at the free throw line before he even gets near the rim. That's an easy and obvious offensive foul. He initiated the contact with Whiteside before he did anything to impede him. I just watched it again to affirm what I saw the first and second time. It's not even debatable. The right forearm occurred after Boogie grabbed his arm. You'd have to be totally oblivious to unequivocal visual evidence to come to a different conclusion.

* NOTE * I don't take any pleasure in coming to this conclusion, just calling it as I see it!!

That's fine and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. That's just not what happened though. The replay clearly shows Whiteside reach across Cousins' body for the foul and the drive started and plant his right forearm/elbow into Cousins left side. Cousins pushed Whiteside’s arm down as he continued his drive.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I really do not see what all the fuss is about. DMC clearly uses his left arm to hook around Whiteside's left arm, effectively taking away his shot blocking hand. This is, indeed, an offensive foul.

You conveniently ignore the fact that Whiteside gets beat off the dribble and rides/pushes Cuz's hip to prevent him from driving past which is a foul BEFORE Cuz uses his left arm to ward him off.

If the counter argument is that it should be a no call, considering time and situation and the fact that they both made an illegal move, fine. But that play is by no means solely an offensive foul. Cuz was fouled before he made his counter move.

Moving on, what about the other calls? Are you arguing that Whiteside didn't travel on both occasions well before a foul (if any) took place? What's the excuse for Cuz getting the offensive foul when Whiteside is grabbing him as he tries to move from the right side of the lane to the left??

The "fuss" isn't just about the 1 final play. There were 5 others in that same 4th quarter.

 

[Blob]

That's fine and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. That's just not what happened though. The replay clearly shows Whiteside reach across Cousins' body for the foul and the drive started and plant his right forearm/elbow into Cousins left side. Cousins pushed Whiteside’s arm down as he continued his drive.

I don't know what replay you are watching but I am watching (replaying) the Miami Heat feed. Cousins grab occurs at the FREE THROW LINE. The forearm from Whiteside did not occur until he was like 3 feet from the basket. The appropriate call is to call the first foul (Cousins) not the second (Whiteside).

 

[Blob]

You conveniently ignore the fact that Whiteside gets beat off the dribble and rides/pushes Cuz's hip to prevent him from driving past which is a foul BEFORE Cuz uses his left arm to ward him off.

If the counter argument is that it should be a no call, considering time and situation and the fact that they both made an illegal move, fine. But that play is by no means solely an offensive foul. Cuz was fouled before he made his counter move.

Moving on, what about the other calls? Are you arguing that Whiteside didn't travel on both occasions well before a foul (if any) took place? What's the excuse for Cuz getting the offensive foul when Whiteside is grabbing him as he tries to move from the right side of the lane to the left??

The "fuss" isn't just about the 1 final play. There were 5 others in that same 4th quarter.

Total misinterpretation of the play. It is illegal to grab a defenders arm to try to gain an advantage. That was the first violation that takes precedence.

 

[kupman]

You conveniently ignore the fact that Whiteside gets beat off the dribble and rides/pushes Cuz's hip to prevent him from driving past which is a foul BEFORE Cuz uses his left arm to ward him off.

If the counter argument is that it should be a no call, considering time and situation and the fact that they both made an illegal move, fine. But that play is by no means solely an offensive foul. Cuz was fouled before he made his counter move.

Moving on, what about the other calls? Are you arguing that Whiteside didn't travel on both occasions well before a foul (if any) took place? What's the excuse for Cuz getting the offensive foul when Whiteside is grabbing him as he tries to move from the right side of the lane to the left??

The "fuss" isn't just about the 1 final play. There were 5 others in that same 4th quarter.

I have been watching the NBA for a very long time. Bad calls and questionable calls occur with great regularity. "If you don't like that, you don't like NBA basketball!"

DMC did foul Hassan right after Hassan traveled.

They did get the last call right.

Life is to short to argue the rest. I am sure that there were bad calls. It doesn't mean that the world is out to get DMC

 

[Tetsujin]

Total misinterpretation of the play. It is illegal to grab a defenders arm to try to gain an advantage. That was the first violation that takes precedence.

"Suuuure, they're both fouls but this one's foulier!"

 

[Hoovtrain]

I don't know what replay you are watching but I am watching (replaying) the Miami Heat feed. Cousins grab occurs at the FREE THROW LINE. The forearm from Whiteside did not occur until he was like 3 feet from the basket. The appropriate call is to call the first foul (Cousins) not the second (Whiteside).

Lol ok. I've watched both replays from both broadcasts. I stand by what I said

 

[Henkel]

Here's the official review from the NBA, substantiating what I have been saying:

Full final two minute report.

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/11/L2M-SAC-MIA-11-1-16.pdf

 

[Blob]

"Suuuure, they're both fouls but this one's foulier!"

What part of the "first violation takes precedence" do you not understand?

Lol ok. I've watched both replays from both broadcasts. I stand by what I said

You said the forearm was the foul. The forearm occurred close to the basket (if at all). The grab occurred at the free throw line. If you are contending the second foul should be called instead of the first foul then you have a misunderstanding of the rules of basketball.

The best replay is from court level that shows Whiteside reach at free throw line. If Boogie drives through his arm, he is going to get the whistle! But he didn't drive through his arm. He used his left hand to grab his arm and move it out of the way . This is obvious if you study the play. Of course I didn't need to study it because this was apparent to me during the telecast.

I am gonna screenshot this for you to put this baby to bed

First here's Boogie getting ready to make his move:



In this next caption below, it is blurry, but as Boogie puts the ball down Whiteside reaches.

If Boogie drives through his arm he gets the foul call! But he doesn't. Before contact is made he grabs his arm.

That blurry part above Whiteside's arm band is Boogie's hand.



In this final caption from another angle you can see Boogie has locked onto to Whiteside's arm and pulled it down to his side in a clear and obvious offensive foul before any other inappropriate contact by Whiteside.

Case closed.

 

[Glenn]

Full final two minute report.

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/11/L2M-SAC-MIA-11-1-16.pdf

Thanks. In my view of the last call, given the point in the game, in real time with no review, it was a no call but that's the way I would have called it. It was an iffy call that probably decided the game. As a homer view, Cuz has a right to have his left arm somewhere. It's a big arm.

I may have to review it again but I saw no mention of Hassan's two travels. I probably missed them. Anyway, congrats to Hassan for making the most of the talents he has. He worked hard and didn't give up.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Full final two minute report.

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/11/L2M-SAC-MIA-11-1-16.pdf

I take this with a grain of salt because they have Collison committing a foul in that final 2 minute report -- rather hilarious ain't it? It's all a bunch of bullcrap.

I haven't heard of anyone getting 6 fouls in a quarter in years, let alone a superstar player.

 

[Glenn]

I take this with a grain of salt because they have Collison committing a foul in that final 2 minute report -- rather hilarious ain't it? It's all a bunch of bullpoopoo.

I haven't heard of anyone getting 6 fouls in a quarter in years, let alone a superstar player.

Collison should be fined and given a tech for playing while suspended.

 

[Suicide King]

I won't get into the divide and conquer, partisanship. As I figured, it would all be about THE 6TH FOUL when to me it is not.

It is over and done. On to Orlando.

 

[Blob]

I take this with a grain of salt because they have Collison committing a foul in that final 2 minute report -- rather hilarious ain't it? It's all a bunch of bullpoopoo.

I haven't heard of anyone getting 6 fouls in a quarter in years, let alone a superstar player.

So one typo means its all bull poo poo? C'mon man, we know when you introduce a human element that there are going to be mistakes. Don't ignore the fact Boogie was called for ZERO fouls in the first three quarters and SHOT 18 FREE THROWS total. From this perspective, the bias for most of the game, if one was to be asserted, was against Miami not the Kings.

The bad calls tend to even out. And perhaps even out more in the favor of Boogie if he was not continually antagonistic towards the refs . Boogie was a victim of at least one bad call in the 4th when he secured a jump ball and instead got called for a shooting foul on an and-one.

But when you claim injustice TOO OFTEN when justice was served (see 6th foul) you don't solicit any favors or borderline calls from the refs in the future. You earn the reputation of a chronic complainer and an emotional infant. This is nothing new as many Kings fans can undoubtedly attest. Boogie went ballistic last year in Oakland when he hacked Curry on a drive to the basket and got an early ejection over a valid call.

 

[Kingster]

It sure is early in the season to have a discussion on Cousins' mental makeup, his technicals, his disputes with the refs. Same ol', same ol'.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I have been watching the NBA for a very long time.

They did get the last call right.

Well, all that experience certainly didn't help you see what nearly everyone else has been able to see. You are among a very few that has that opinion. That should tell you something, but somehow I don't believe that it does.

 

[dude12]

It sure is early in the season to have a discussion on Cousins' mental makeup, his technicals, his disputes with the refs. Same ol', same ol'.

Stop bringing it up and talk about the real problems or deficiencies in games. That's what should happen

 

[Hoovtrain]

What part of the "first violation takes precedence" do you not understand?



You said the forearm was the foul. The forearm occurred close to the basket (if at all). The grab occurred at the free throw line. If you are contending the second foul should be called instead of the first foul then you have a misunderstanding of the rules of basketball.

The best replay is from court level that shows Whiteside reach at free throw line. If Boogie drives through his arm, he is going to get the whistle! But he didn't drive through his arm. He used his left hand to grab his arm and move it out of the way . This is obvious if you study the play. Of course I didn't need to study it because this was apparent to me during the telecast.

I am gonna screenshot this for you to put this baby to bed

First here's Boogie getting ready to make his move:

View attachment 5832

In this next caption below, it is blurry, but as Boogie puts the ball down Whiteside reaches.

If Boogie drives through his arm he gets the foul call! But he doesn't. Before contact is made he grabs his arm.

That blurry part above Whiteside's arm band is Boogie's hand.

View attachment 5831

In this final caption from another angle you can see Boogie has locked onto to Whiteside's arm and pulled it down to his side in a clear and obvious offensive foul before any other inappropriate contact by Whiteside.

Case closed.

View attachment 5833

I appreciate you taking the time to post the pics and the breakdown....and while it's interesting it's far from case closed. You and I will have to agree to disagree

 

[mac]

Looks like things are still the same at kingsfans. The Kingsfans.com guide to survival: bash Karl good, say anything negative about Cousins bad, Vlade and Joerger always saviours. From now on I propose that all game discussions contain only discussion of Anthony Tolliver sprinkled with occasional praise for Cousins' headband. Who needs to actually talk about our sets, how we're using players, how we keep digging ourselves into holes...

 

[dude12]

I appreciate you taking the time to post the pics and the breakdown....and while it's interesting it's far from case closed. You and I will have to agree to disagree

In real time it was a foul, in slo motion it was a foul, in Bloob's freeze frame pictures it's still a foul. The NBA doesn't have the balls to say they got the call wrong. I've yet to hear anyone nationally or locally on the radio say its a foul. No matter what this group thinks, it's still a foul and Sac got ripped off by inept professional referees.

 

[swisshh]

Boogie takes one dribble then grabs his left arm out at the free throw line before he even gets near the rim. That's an easy and obvious offensive foul. He initiated the contact with Whiteside before he did anything to impede him. I just watched it again to affirm what I saw the first and second time. It's not even debatable. The right forearm occurred after Boogie grabbed his arm. You'd have to be totally oblivious to unequivocal visual evidence to come to a different conclusion.

* NOTE * I don't take any pleasure in coming to this conclusion, just calling it as I see it!!

He grbas the arm later, after Whiteside had fouled him. You can put your arm out there in a natural stride motion. That is not illegal. I've been explaining this all day. People just don't seem to know the rules.

Here's Lilliard doing the same arm motion in a nba rulebook video:

http://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/illegal-contact-above-free-throw-line-extended-handcheck/

Cousins does hold the arm later on, but that's after the reach-in and hit on the knee/thigh.

 

[BeerNerd916]

Boogie takes one dribble then grabs his left arm out at the free throw line before he even gets near the rim. That's an easy and obvious offensive foul. He initiated the contact with Whiteside before he did anything to impede him. I just watched it again to affirm what I saw the first and second time. It's not even debatable. The right forearm occurred after Boogie grabbed his arm. You'd have to be totally oblivious to unequivocal visual evidence to come to a different conclusion.

* NOTE * I don't take any pleasure in coming to this conclusion, just calling it as I see it!!

From the angle the ref at the baseline had, the contact happened INSTANTANEOUSLY. Boogs left arm contacted Whiteside within a SPLIT SECOND of Whitesides left arm contacting Boogie as Whiteside reaches in and misses ball and makes contact. You have to have an agenda to make that call against Boogie. I have seen Shaq do the same thing multiple times and not get that same call.

https://www.google.com/amp/uproxx.com/dimemag/demarcus-cousins-fouled-out-six-fouls-one-quarter/amp/