Grades v. Hawks 02/12

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Grades from the bottom of a snowdrift:

Artest ( A- ) -- Got off to a quiet start, but then exploded in the second quarter and completely carried us with a 14pt outburst from outside and in. And our +/- with Ron remains almost scary. Like a drug or something. The Hawks two biggest runs both took place as soon as Ron went to the bench in the late first and late third. Such versatility -- guarded four positions for us tonight. Everybody from Harrington to Johnson. And after being switched off onto Joe Johnson in the second half it wasn't even a competition. Johnson is a good player. Artest is a GREAT defender. Does continue to throw up some random shots at times. But efficiency can be highly overrated when the alternative is a guy who forces the action and causes as much havoc as Ron does. Credited with 6 steals, and probably knocked away another 4 or 5 balls as well. Not a perfect game or anything, but its funny having a player of this caliber show back up in town. He is just tangibly better than everybody else we have, and all but the very best the opposition has. I am completely unworried every night about anybody getting the better of him. Be some interesting tests with Kobe and LeBron eventually. But early returns say we've got ourselves a GREAT player. A guy who in his own way may turn out to be nearly as dominant as Webb was in his prime. If he can just hold it together.
Thomas ( B+ ) -- good solid active game for Kenny. The Hawks just had nobody on the inside tonight, and for the most part Kenny could just go where he wanted and do whatever he felt like. And for the most part he played within himself. Not many forces, avoided the dumb mental mistakes. And there is nobody on Atlanta to take advanatge of him defensively. End result was a very solid 17pt 10reb game where he did much to help and little to hurt us. Could have been an A-, but dropped it a tid for setting and opponent, not wanting to hand out too many As for beating an inferior opponent on our home floor.
Miller ( B ) -- one interesting development early in this one was the return of the Brad-centric Princetonesque offense. He was controlling action from out on top. But things began to slip badly in the second quarter when the nifty passes starting turning into not so nifty turnovers and the decisionmaking was shaky. Picked up the boardwork and actually blocked out on the glass in the third, even if it was only Zaza Pachulia. Had a shorter night than the other starters, and the thumb looked like it might be bothering him at times. This one started out strong, got shaky, and finished solid.
Martin ( B+ ) -- Got off to a slow start and had an unfortunate double brain fart at the end of the first half, first carelessly turning the ball over on what should have been our final possession to end the half, and then mysteriously deciding to come down on the other end and just grab his guy rather than play defense, allowing the Hawks to get a pair of FTs and close it to within 8. However the only shot he hit in the first half was a nice one -- a turnaround on the baseline with his momentum heading away from the hoop. Tough shot to make. And came out in the third on a bit of a run to restore a little of his Arco luster. Best thing that he showed again tonight was that little one handed floating stop and pop pullup. Like so much else with his game, its practically brand new, but its quite good given the elevation he gets. If you watch his outside shooting, it can be taken away -- he still needs space and to have his feet firmly set to hit with any consistency. But that pullup -- that's a real pro shot that's going to net him a lot of points in his NBA career. Not his best game and a middling first half. But a big third and another 20pt night at Arco.
Bibby ( C+ ) -- out there and steadier than in Phoenix, but you would have barely noticed him. Kind of just solidly efficient, but definitely working in the shadows and didn't have much to do with this outcome. Better obviously, and encouraging just in that he was able to make mild contributions in efficient fashion rather than being either great or horrible. But nonetheless we were basically working around Mike's lack of production tonight. Will need more from him as we hit the road.
Garcia ( B ) -- quiet first half stint offensively, and got himself sent to the bench after forcing a one on one move and miss. But did grab a bunch of defense boards, albeit most of them uncontested. Did eventually score most of his points in garbagetime, but never got hot from the field and sdtruggled to a 2-7 night. A real positive is that he continues to get work at the backup PG, and may not be that far from solving that problem for us, for this year at least. Rick has gained a lot of confidence in that unit in a short time, and may have seen the error of his Hart ways. Of course the key remains to have Artest, or maybe Miller, on the floor at the same time to actually run the offense -- Cisco just needs to get it up the floor.
Reef ( A- ) -- started off quiet offensively, but was actually having one of his best rebounding games of the season. Then went on a scoring run in the early 4th to help us maintain the commanding lead and finished with a very nice 10pt 8reb game. Not sure whether it was getting back at his old team, making a pitch for his starting spot, or just the weakness of the Atlanta frontline. But whatever it was, this is the sort of rounded game from Reef which can really help us.
Skinner ( INC ) -- garbagetime
Hart ( INC ) -- garbagetime
Sampson ( INC ) -- garbagetime
Price ( INC ) -- garbagetime, made a couple of good defensive plays in his minutes

Adelman ( A- ) -- Ahh...the Hawks. Like a breath of fresh air for every struggling team in the league for a decade now. No matter who you are, no matter how bad things are going, the Hawks will always make you feel good about yourselves and glad you're not them. Tonight they hung close for about a half. Or rather we let them hang close by making a pile of braindead turnovers before Rick's halftime speech/adjustments really seemed to do the job (in particular the move to sic Artest on Johnson, and I do not use the word "sic" by accident). But you can just see that they are a young team with an inferior goto guy and incapable of squeezing anybody on defense for even short spurts. No point guard to set the tempo. No big man to shut down the interior. Talent, but directionless and flavorless talent. In response tonight Rick REALLY tightened the rotation. It was effectively 7 men, and then the bench cleared for a few minutes of garbagetime. But Reef was the only big man backup, an Garcia the only little man backup as we utilized those players' versatility and did not have to worry about either a great PG or great C taking advantage of our out of position guys. Atlanta has neither. The 7 man rotation could also be a very good thing for Cisco no matter what we do with Bonzi. Even if Bonzi returns, Cisco may now be able to get a lot of his minutes as a backup to Mike. If Bonzi does not return, Cisco is positioning himself as a one man 1/2/3/ backup for all three of the Bibby/Martin.Artest trio. Also means we may be able to focus on a shotblocker at the trading deadline, and just call Garcia/Artest the backup PG the rest of the year. And so anyway, very short rotation that produced a blowout as we got good very good games from just about everybody. And this is Rick's preferred short rotation pattern, and that of many top coaches really. Pick your best 8 and let them play. And it really helps if you have some versatile benchers. One question I do have to ask on an otherwise successful night, was...Rick? What the hell is Ron Artest doing on the floor in this one with 3 minutes to go in the game?
 
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ok...theres something tellin me that bibby is gonna get an A today..i. just got a feelin...so ima go ahead and post this hopefully im right!!! :-) GO KINGSS!!!!!!


nvm haha..i guesss we won so its all good anyways lol
 
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Bibby...B-...Only doesn't get a C, because he had a complete 180 degree turn from his atrocious last game...His stats were completly mediocre with 13/3/4, but he actually helped the team tonight. And Ill take that.

Martin...A...Continues to impress me...Started off badly with a 1 of seven start, I believe...Finished making his last 6 or so, including that mid-rnage game that mpresses me completly...Also contributed in other places, albeit modestly, but he was another piece that definatly helped us win.

Artest...A...Great defense...He held Joe Johnson, a pretty damn good player, to NOTHING in the second half...He also had SIX (6) steals! But wait, there's more! Continued to lead our offense, with 20 points and seemed to be hitting his jumper tonight...Also had pent of power low-post moves as well. Continues to pass too!

Thomas...A...Continues rebounding the ball like we know he can, and tonight he was "on" offensivly. This is ALL I ask of him.

Miller...B-...Was in on of his passive modes tonight...Passing on some open jumpers to try to get the ball to other teammates...gernerous, yes, smart, no...Otherwise rebounded nicley, and had some assits, but also hurt with 6 turnovers...Not good.

Cisco...B...Shot was off tonight, ut he still managed to help us as the backup PG role which he has stepped into recently...Rebounded, passed, played solid defense, and just gererall heped us in most asppects of the game. Also contributed his one block!

SAR...A...Probably his best game since coming back from his injury...Efficiently scored 10 points on six shots, which is something we'vecome to expect, but grabbed a nice eight rebounds...If he can keep this up, again, it's all I as of him.

Skinner...INC...Nothing.

Hart...INC...Jacked up four shots in four minutes...Actually made two...I dont think he impressed Adleman.

Sampson...INC...Sees the court tonight...Doesnt ipress anyone with nothing.

Price...INC...Nothing.
 
I have to give Martin at least a B for his total meltdown at the end of the first half. He redeemed himself, but still.

Artest definitely an A+ second quarter, and an A or A- overall. His left-handed hook that he made while being hacked showed outstanding strength and concentration.
 
KevinMartin'sShotDoctor said:
I have to give Martin at least a B for his total meltdown at the end of the first half. He redeemed himself, but still.

Artest definitely an A+ second quarter, and an A or A- overall. His left-handed hook that he made while being hacked showed outstanding strength and concentration.
Seasoned Vets have melt downs... first and second year players have either "rookie moments" or "lapses" :cool:
 
Im starting to really like Garcia. Hes starting to mature more and take less wild shots. Hes still not hitting them with any consistency but at least most of them are open. Plus hes playing terrific defense. Hes kinda like Ron, even when hes missing his shots, hes still effective on the court. I liked how Ron waited for him after the buzzer, then Garcia put his arm around him and they walked into the locker room. These guys are starting to look more and more like a team. I wish Bibby would start getting into it. He doesnt seem like hes playing into the new team aspect.
 
Good game to help the team get back on track after the mostly disappointing PHX performance. I checked in at half, saw JJohnson had 13. Missed the second half, but noticed after the game that JJohnson still only had 13 --- without evening tuning into the board, it was fairly obvious that he had a case of the Ron's the second half, which just goes to show all of us how special a defensive talent Ron really is. JJohnson dropped 27 on the Pistons the other week, including the game winning layup after eluding Prince and Sheed on a pick and roll (I think), so he's no slouch.

On an unrelated note, imagine if the Hawks had drafted Chris Paul instead of Marvin Williams? Yikes. But that is why they are the Hawks.
 
ESP47 said:
I wish Bibby would start getting into it. He doesnt seem like hes playing into the new team aspect.

I believe Bibby's role is changing ... as the team goes thru it's changes... new identity, new team chemistry, new found confidence, etc ...

Something he's going to have to deal with, if he stays in Sac-Town.

Bibby doesn't have to be THE "PRIMARY" GO TO GUY ... anymore, especially during crunch-time.

With the right mix in their in the 4th quarter ... that list is no longer either limited to Bibby or Miller.

Bibby is very much STILL an effective player, I'm not DAWGING him at all ....

my apologies if this is not the right thread for this, but Bibby has been gnawing at me for some time now.
 
Bibby ( C+ ) -- out there and steadier than in Phoenix, but you would have barely have noticed him. Kind of just solidly efficient, but definitely working in the shadows and didn't have much to do with this outcome. Better obviously, and encouraging just in that he was able to make mild contributions in efficient fashion rather than being either great or horrible. But nonetheless we were basically working around Mike's lack of production tonight. Will need more from him as we hit the road.

It has been mentioned that Bibby might be suffering because he is unhappy about Artest's ability to come in and take over the entire team in a matter of days. I disagree with that argument. Brick mentioned it could also be that Bibby has a hard time with transition once he gets used to the latter. That I believe is more the case. If you see, Bibby only looks frustrated when he can't get his rhythm down - he simply wants to win. He loves it and when he can't produce to make it happen he really beats himself up about it.

He has a huge work ethic, and the heart of a champion and I have always believed that. I take the grade as a definate step in the right direction. I don't believe there will be many other major changes, so as long as he gets used to how the offense is run with Artest he will continue to improve and will once again prove to the other teams that he is definately a force to be reckoned with, and someone you don't want to see have the final shot of the game!

GO KINGS!
 
KevinMartin'sShotDoctor said:
I have to give Martin at least a B for his total meltdown at the end of the first half. He redeemed himself, but still.

Artest definitely an A+ second quarter, and an A or A- overall. His left-handed hook that he made while being hacked showed outstanding strength and concentration.

I don't know if anyone else saw it but the foul that Martin committed was either Adelmans faultor Youngmans fault. I saw Adelman calling for it on the sideline. Adelman looked at Youngman after words and shook his head. Martin was telling the rest of his teammates the samething.
 
Several people here seem to be prepared to write Mike Bibby off. Some are calling for trades or questioning his effort and ability. I think it is time for a "fan head check". This is Mike Bibby we are talking about. He has always been a major force when things got tough.

Fans need to cut him some slack, and have a little faith. Give him time to adjust to the new line-up. He is the point guard afterall, and has more to assimilate than the other players. He has to become perfectly comfortable with what is going on out there. Players like Artest, Kenny, Kevin, and Cisco are out there doing cool stuff, but Bibby simply needs to get his arms around what is happening. We are winning games, but Mike has yet to solidify the offense and control things given the new players and options. By the playoffs, this team will be smoking, provided of course we have no more major injuries.
 
CaminoChaos said:
I don't know if anyone else saw it but the foul that Martin committed was either Adelmans faultor Youngmans fault. I saw Adelman calling for it on the sideline. Adelman looked at Youngman after words and shook his head. Martin was telling the rest of his teammates the samething.

We noticed that, too. After the foul, they panned in on Kevin, and you could see him saying "Coach" and gesturing toward Adelman, almost like one of the other guys on the floor asked him who said we had a foul to give.
 
CaminoChaos said:
I don't know if anyone else saw it but the foul that Martin committed was either Adelmans faultor Youngmans fault. I saw Adelman calling for it on the sideline. Adelman looked at Youngman after words and shook his head. Martin was telling the rest of his teammates the samething.

Pete Youngman is the trainer. No way he would signal a player to commit a foul and NO WAY a player would pay any attention to him if he did.

I did see the play and Martin's gesture towards the bench. You have to wonder if one of the assistant coaches, i.e. Dunn or Turner, might have been the culprit.
 
I think it more likely Kevin just misunderstood what he was hearing form the bench. They were probably saying the Hawks had a foul to give (which they did), not us.
 
Well, that's a pretty dumb time (final seconds of the half, THEIR possession) to be yelling things about the Hawks having a foul to give. That makes no sense whatsoever.
I saw something going on over there during the game, but it's hard to tell what since our seats are by the visitors bench. I haven't watched the DVR recording yet. I will have to watch out for that now because I'm curious.

OK, watched it. Adelman was telling Kevin something, maybe he just said 'don't foul' and Kevin heard 'foul' although after the fact, Adelman didn't go ballistic or roll his eyes or do any of the other things he usually does when someone F's up. He just walked over to the bench and sat down. Kevin did tell his team-mates "Coach told me to foul" So, it's clear he THOUGHT he was told to foul.
 
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Kingsgurl said:
Well, that's a pretty dumb time (final seconds of the half, THEIR possession) to be yelling things about the Hawks having a foul to give. That makes no sense whatsoever.
I saw something going on over there during the game, but it's hard to tell what since our seats are by the visitors bench. I haven't watched the DVR recording yet. I will have to watch out for that now because I'm curious.

Given that Kevin had just messed up on the offensive possession immediately preceding they could very well have been yelling to him about that. Or he could have gotten abit rattled and got confused for a second. Or he could have misheard at the last timeout or time up the floor. Or...

Obviously after he turns it over there is no reason to be talking to him about the Hawks having one to give, because unless somebody fouls a Hawk we aren't getting the ball back. In any case it looked to me like the coaching staff was exasperated with him and he was embarrassed. My guess is just garden variety foul up.

In any case, very minor and hardly worth the trouble. A) Kevin screwed up. Twice in a row in true "duh" fashion. B) It didn't matter in this game. If he wants to start making it a habit and doing it in Game 7 of a playoff series then I worry about it. As it is I see no point in either harping on it or making excuses for it. He screwed up. Noted, but no big deal. It happens.
 
Kingsgurl said:
Game 7......ah, to have that opportunity.

I think the Kings are going to be a factor in the playoffs. Just think about what has transpired this year. The Kings surely have a steep learning curve, but I believe that they have the ability to handle it.
 
Bricklayer said:
Grades from the bottom of a snowdrift:


Price ( INC ) -- garbagetime, made a couple of good defensive plays in his minutes

An almost unnoticed comment about Ronnie Price but an important one. He is obvious in his defense in limited minutes, a very good ball handler and can shoot. Hey, he led or nearly so, the entire NCAA in scoring last year! Anyway, he needs more time and will be a better contributor than Hart. Would like to see him in stretches of 4-6 minutes and see him put his abilities to better use. When Bibby is off Price's hustle and defense can generate fast break scoring opportunities. And points is points. :)
 
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