Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Agreed. They were on fire, even the highly contested shots were falling for them. Some nights are like that.
When do WE get some of those???
When do we play the Wizards or Warriors next??
[Grades] Grades v. Grizzlies 1/21/12
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
When do we play the Wizards or Warriors next??
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Avril LaVigne -- somewhere along the line she got hot
She doesn't get enough credit..
I dont know, but I love her. Love. her.
He is much more athletic than you are giving him credit for. Would you say he is more or less athletic than Steve Nash or John Stockton?
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Less quick than Nash to be sure, and especialy less quick with the ball than either.
But its not exactly like either of those guys is known for his ability to drive in there and finish either. Shooters, passers, pick and roll players, but only occasionally all the way into the paint to score if things really opened up for them. Once Jimmer realizes that's the way he's going to have to play it he'll probably be better off.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
Its going to be nice to have a good scoring option off the bench in fredette. Jj has been a real disappointment. I don't see any post game or rebounding from him. I envisioned some weak side shot blocking and good pick and roll movement with our guards wig him.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Hickson has been disappointing. No better than Casspi. And to think they also gave up a first round pick in the trade. Hopefully Hickson gets better or it will go down as another black mark on Petrie's record.
The last few games Jimmer has been making some good defensive plays, and the announcers have been taking notice to it as well. I'm not saying he's an all-star defender right now, but he has been holding his own pretty well out there and has even been making plays time to time on D.
What is it that has given you the impression that he can't drive well? He's no Rose, but this season he has shown a pretty good ability to take it to the hoop. Now, he's struggled with his shot, but the ability to take his guy to the rim is clearly there.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Yeah, I thought he's been decent on defense as well. I have to wonder if maybe the folks who keep harping on how awful his defense is aren't just parroting what they've heard others say.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Or perhaps they watched tonight's game. That was scary.
Perhaps shaping up to be one of those good team defender/can't defend his man things. Or at least many men. Quickness kills him, and so does excessive size obviously. As long as we can keep him on Derek Fisher we're good.
I don't think he is less quick than either of those players (I have been a Jazz fan for my whole life so I have watched Stockon a time or two) and he is much stronger than both. I think he jumps better than either of those two players too. I know that those are two of the premier guards to ever play the game and I hesitate to make the comparison. I just use them to illustrate the point that I believe that it isn't athleticism or lack thereof that is hurting Jimmers play (and he has mostly shot very poorly) but that there are other factors involved.
I haven't seen every game but I have seen most of the games this season and it seems to me that Jimmer hasn't had any trouble beating his man to get into the lane. He hasn't been able to beat the help defense and since nobody on his team is moving without the ball he either takes a contested shot or throws to a teammate that isn't looking for a pass and hasn't established position to receive a pass or do anything with it if he does catch it. This type of offense will work if Tyreke is the point guard and can elevate over the help defense (but it will never be very successful in my opinion) or just simply get to the rim before the help get there but it won't work for most player in the league.
Because of the makeup of the Kings roster I am not sure Jimmer will ever be very effective as a King. The team is built and the offense run around Tyreke and his very unique skill set and when he runs the offense he is very effective (see Spurs, Lakers, Pacers etc..) and Jimmer will never be able to run the offense the way Tyreke can. I know that you think Jimmer can best help the team by becoming a spot up shooter and maybe you are right. Either way he has struggle to hit open shots and doesn't look like he has quite figured out how much time he has to get his shots off. I don't think it is a lack of athleticism that is hurting him as much as it is a lack of a system and trying to play like Tyreke.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
He can't clear his man and has the guy riding his hip the whole way, then gets inside and can't finish over the bigs. In fact frequently he's been forced to just pick up his dribble and desperately try to find an outlet. He's only finishing 50% of his shots at the rim, and only 23% of this shots from 3-9 feet. And again this is no surprise. I can't think of a single example of a guy with his physical characteristics who has been a significant to the hoop player in the NBA. The occasional superquick dart, or jumping bean, but not Jimmer types. He just needs to figure that out.
Posta Boy X
G-League
Dear Moderator, how do you bypass the forum protocols and get yourself an animated avatar when I can't? This makes me very upset.
Please tell me I don't know what I'm talking about..or that it's my jealousy speaking...or you didn't realize your avatar was animated. I'm requesting answers. Now.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Just an animated .gif file. Was a gift years ago from one of our artsier forum members. Pretty sure anybody can use one though.
Posta Boy X
G-League
Oh thanks. I think cstorm is correct though. I was told I can't use animated avatars when I tried uploading one. I guess it's time to share my wealth!
Nah it's just an animated gif. You can make one using flash and exporting the video as a gif.
Hate to harp on Tyreke's D again, but I've noticed one more thing, which is that whenever his man runs from the low post to the corner on the other side he tends to just stand around the middle and not follow him. I think he expects someone to switch over, but I'm not sure that's a good idea because he'll end up guarding one of the other team's bigs. The one play against the Grizz that I noticed this had his man going to the corner, no one switched and Tyreke didn't follow him. Ball eventually went out to that guy, JJ Hickson ran out to close but the guy pump faked and took it in for a dunk/ layup. Jimmer tried to rotate but wasn't there in time. Tyreke was left guarding nobody. I'm wondering why this is, because it's happened quite a few times, where Tyreke would just stop chasing his man somewhere under the basket. Is someone supposed to switch? If so, why?
Btw I'm being more critical of Tyreke's defense because I believe our good team D starts with him. The best guys need to step up defensively for the whole team to buy into it.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Kevin Durant
Zach Randolph
Blake Griffin
Monta Ellis
Steve Nash
Amare Stoudemire
Carmelo Anthony
Derrick Rose
Dirk Nowitzki
Tony Parker
LaMarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
and etc.
Just a partial list of stars around the league who Reke is outdefending already. Its again the wrong target. We've got Jimmer getting torched left and right. DeMarcus letting Gasol get any shot he wants from the perimeter. Gay physically overwhelming Garcia. But our defensive discussion in about why Reke doesn't follow his man through the paint on this play or that. Scheme? Laziness? Miscommunication/confusion? Who knows. Buit whatever it was its relatively minor compared to our other issues.
Posta Boy X
G-League
zzz
I think he at least as athletic but not as strong.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
No, you don't have to be a contributing member to get an animated gif although that is a good idea to encourage people to become contributors. Many years ago animated gifs were allowed and since a software upgrade, animated gifs were not allowed to be uploaded as part of the new upgrade. The old gifs stayed and worked just fine. In other words if you have been with this board a long time you may have an animated gif as a hangover from the past. It is no more mysterious than that.
Oh no question, I completely agree. But I think it's something that can be easily corrected. You're not going to turn Jimmer into Tony Allen by giving him some informative talk or showing him film. You can however, get to the root of this problem (that has happened on several occasions in different games) by simply addressing it with Tyreke/ the miscommunication or whatever the cause of it is. We should fix whatever holes can be fixed. It's just like how we say Jimmer hasn't been playing well, but he's not the only problem - Salmons, Outlaw etc had been playing terribly too. At the end of the day however, Jimmer's struggles still contribute, to whatever extent, to our team's struggles. In the same way, Tyreke's defense is far from being the worst on the team, but it still contributes to giving up easy points at times. In Tyreke's case I believe most of the defensive problems can be easily addressed and fixed, so I hope the coaches do so.
Honest question: If Reke, Cousins, etc. all play such great defense, why are Kings one of the worst defensive teams in the league?
The Kings consistently have gone down big in the first quarter while the starters are in. If the starters' defense is not a concern, what is?
I'll attempt to answer for you: Their defense is not good. Nobody on this team currently deserves the title of "star" - or for what it's worth, to be compared to other true stars in the league. However, this fact comes down MORE to the fact that the Kings lack a sound system. The talent is there for stardom, of course. But will it ever be realized? If the coaches have the same philosophies you just posted, it may not.
Except Jimmer of course. Jimmer for MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Improved Player (in his rookie season!), ROY. 1st team All NBA and Defense. 3 Point shoot out winner as well as dunk contest winner.
Edit: But first his team mates must pass him the ball and stop hating on him just because he's white.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Ignoring the normal silliness, at what point did I accuse anyone except for Reke of playing more than sporadic bursts of defense? Cousins has great hands and is often a dominant rebounder, but he's no lane clogging force yet. Jason tries hard but has never been consistently efective. Our attempts to find a SF defender have largely washed out, except for Donte at times, who rarely gets minutes. Neither Jimmer nor IT can consistently guard NBA guys. Thornton will hustle, but its mostly undisciplined gambling. Hickson is soft and doesn't make the most out of his athleticism. Our most dedicated defender is an injured center an inch shorter than Kevin Martin. We gave up our size advantage over the summer, and now Thornton, Jimmer, IT, Hayes, Salmons and Cisco are all undersized for their positions. We are the youngerst team in the league, which inevitably means mistakes and lack of discipline. We have a ton of defensive issues. Which is why focusing on Reke, one of our 2 or 3 consistently effective defenders, is a tad silly -- although I agree with Mac's assessment that he at least has a chance to correct some of his weaknesses whereas our small/slow types are unlikely to ever be terribly effective on that end.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Two things could helped the D tonight, not won the game, just helped incrementally. One, IT could have been put on Connelly much earlier. IT is effective at guarding the smaller ultra-quick point guards. It's no mistake that the Grizz went away from Connelly in their offense when IT finally got into the game and started guarding Connelly. Second, the return of Hayes. I don't think Gasol would have been given the space he had on the outside with Hayes in the game. Would that have won the game? No. But the D would have been better imo. Being fair, though, IT wasn't giving much at all in this game offensively; just couldn't shoot. So by putting IT on Connelly we would have lost offense and the Jimmer coming out party. Now that Jimmer has had his coming out party and hopefully is more confident I'm hoping that in the future Smart defends the ultra quick smaller pgs with IT; Jimmer can't do that right now.
Gasol is just the kind of player that Hayes has no chance of guarding. He gives up 7 inches and Gasol can hit the outside shot. He would just get the ball, turn, laugh a little bit, and hit the jumper in Hayes face.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
very true. hayes has a chance against players he has a strength advantage over. when he's met with equal or more strength plus size... it's going to be a field day for the opponent.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
I think that's true, Hayes can't muscle a 22 foot jumpshot from a 7 ft center...nothing you or anyone else can really do about that if the guy is going off from the perimeter.
