Grades v. Grizzlies 02/15
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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Coach
Guest
Unfortunately, one thing Webber and Artest have in common is their willingness to take bad shots. Artest is now shooting 26% from the 3 point arc as a King, and he was 0-8 from behind the line tonight.
What makes it even more frustrating is, unlike Webber, Artest is a good low post scorer. For chissakes Ron, you weigh 260 pounds and you can overpower most small forwards. Stop settling for the threes and get on the block.
What makes it even more frustrating is, unlike Webber, Artest is a good low post scorer. For chissakes Ron, you weigh 260 pounds and you can overpower most small forwards. Stop settling for the threes and get on the block.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Coach said:
Unfortunately one thing that nearly all great players have in common is their willingness to take bad shots. Comes with the territory. You're the man. You have to make things happen. Sometimes its not there. Its very easy to shoot 3-6. Quite hard to shoot 10-20.
The real question is just is Ron the sort of great player who can hit a bunch fo those tough shots with consistency. We may not truly know until next season when he's in shape, knows the system, and hopefully has a coherent team around him.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Players always think they'll hit the next one.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
WORD!! C'mon folks...the whole team had a bonehead game tonight, big deal, we're 6-3 with Artest...not bad, for a 'malcontent that is a cancer and bully with a short fuse, right?? lol Ron has changed the whole attitude of this team, we havent EVER had this tough attitude in ANY year the Kings have been in Sacramento. And lest we not forget that we dont have that Wells guy, either. When he gets back, in hopefully a couple weeks or so, Ron should be at least HALF way in basketball shape...and just think...we'll have Martin coming off the bench with Cisco, Reef and Skinner...the possiblilities are a HELL of alot better for the upcoming future. Ron has his first stinker game as a King...cut the guy some slack for God's sake...he's responsible for a defensive renaissance! Man, I fathom to think what everyone will be throwing Ron's way if he has a bad NEXT game.Kings113 said:
piksi said:
What is so hard to believe about it? FOUR OF THOSE LOSSES WERE EXTREMELY CLOSE, and they were against pretty decent teams. Ron has made this team much better on the defensive end and gives us a first option on offense. He can score from everywhere, naturally he is going to take some bad shots. Let's look at the losses:
Boston: bad team, we came up short and were noticeably worse with Ron out of the game.
Toronto: They had a 1-15 start to their season or something like that. After that, they've been a pretty decent team. If Rose doesn't hit a tough game winner we win there.
Utah: If Ron doesn't get injured and we don't fold in the 4th, we win. That simple. Still was a pretty close game even though we blew a 13 point lead. Utah's a potential playoff team.
Phoenix: Very good team, Mike didn't give us anything here. Ron lead the team back and we got it close. If Ron wasn't here, that is a blowout plain and simple.
Memphis: We almost won with Mike and Ron shooting like crap. The defense was there, Memphis is a good team. We were on the 2nd night of a back to back on the road after winning in a close overtime game. We kind of got screwed over by the refs though. If Mike/Ron hit even a few more shots or KT does not dribble the ball off of a foot and Reef doesn't get his technical we probably win. Heck, Kevin was playing very well before he got his 4th foul, we might have won if he didn't get his fourth foul.
It isn't encouraging to you that we almost won even though we were on a back to back on the road against a good team with 2 of our best players shooting like garbage? Ron has been the main factor in our wins and usually the player that keeps us close in our losses. The guy that has directed the defense(which we have started to play well).
bibbinator
Bench
Jeez, what do some of you people want?
We had just about everything going against us, on the road, back to back, against a well rested team that we just beat pretty good. I was just happy to see us stay in it until the end. And long minutes on the starters from a hard game the night before.
The odds were really against us, Memphis could have easily beat any team in the league coming to them under the same circumstances.
We had just about everything going against us, on the road, back to back, against a well rested team that we just beat pretty good. I was just happy to see us stay in it until the end. And long minutes on the starters from a hard game the night before.
The odds were really against us, Memphis could have easily beat any team in the league coming to them under the same circumstances.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
my bad...missed 2 games there, off the top of my head, of coursepiksi said:
OptimusRhyme said:
I couldn't have said it better. He's put it ALL out there on the court every single night since he joined the team. He's played through injury, he's done more than we had any right to logically expect coming off that long an idle period...
Tonight we lost. It happens. I'm not going to make excuses for them because they didn't give up. Even though stuff wasn't working and they were clearly exhausted, they kept trying. And that's what I've been asking of them all along.
kings only gave up 84 pts....but they only scored 78.
'The Kings failed to score in the final 5:13 Wednesday night, letting a slim lead slip away and losing to the Memphis Grizzlies 84-78.'
that's game right there. 1-19 threes too
'The Kings failed to score in the final 5:13 Wednesday night, letting a slim lead slip away and losing to the Memphis Grizzlies 84-78.'
that's game right there. 1-19 threes too
BawLa
Starter
BMiller52 said:
I agree with BMiller. We have been playing noticably better with Ron and we have had a chance to win those games we lost. And that is all you can ask. Not to mention we have re-established home dominance at ARCO. In order to win on the road you need good team defense and offensive chemistry. The offensive chemistry has not developed yet. Remember the beginning of the season? Our starters never got a chance to get in any type of rhythm with eachother. It will come, it will take some time. And hopefully it comes this season. There is a lot of basketball to be played and we WILL make the playoffs. It is just up to our offense to start clicking because our defense has already started.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
BawLa said:
Um...that's not really true. They had every chance. They simply failed because they weren't very good together.
BawLa said:
Admirable confidence, but the numbers say ?
Good part is that missing the playoffs has advantages too just so long as we make a push to make everybody feel better.
Bricklayer said:
I don't know. I don't see Artest as that sort of guy. A player like Bibby can shoot himself out of a funk, get hot and then explode. I think guys like Artest and even Martin are guys who do well by not forcing it. I don't think they are volume shooters/scorers.
BawLa
Starter
Bricklayer said:
I was making a correlation to the fact that THIS team has not been able to get any type of rhythm. The old team had the ability but it would have taken more time, and injuries curbed that progress.
But it also allowed us to begin to develop our younger players and bench. Making the playoffs would do more for our younger players than getting 4-6 more spots up on the draft IMO. Look at the draft this year. There are only a few certainties with many question marks. Are we gonna get another SG/SF?
We are playing better basketball than our playoff competition IMO. Which is why my "cockyness" shined through. Out of 13 more home games I see only two real hard games to play. Our defense will only continue to develop and I think it will plateau after we get our real starters back (ie Bonzi, even though I think Reef will shock most ppl too). Out of 16 more road games I can see us getting 8 realistically.
Not to mention what the ASB will do to help our guys rest up and focus.
nbrans
All-Star
I don't think it's player bashing to notice that Ron's offense is not working very well and to wonder about it. Yes, he has the hip pointer, but surely 11 games is enough to get in shape, particularly when he played 16 games to start the season? How many does he need?
The question I have is whether Ron's offense is suffering because he's tired or because he's taking bad shots. He's on a much longer leash in Sacramento to play offense how he sees fit, and his shot selection makes me want to pull my hair out. He's taking a career high number of shots in Sacramento -- three more than he was taking with Indiana to start the season, only he's not making more. He's just shooting a lower percentage.
He plays such great defense, and yes, he's transformed the team, but the Kings aren't going to play much better than .500 ball when their leading shot taker is shooting 38% from the field.
The question I have is whether Ron's offense is suffering because he's tired or because he's taking bad shots. He's on a much longer leash in Sacramento to play offense how he sees fit, and his shot selection makes me want to pull my hair out. He's taking a career high number of shots in Sacramento -- three more than he was taking with Indiana to start the season, only he's not making more. He's just shooting a lower percentage.
He plays such great defense, and yes, he's transformed the team, but the Kings aren't going to play much better than .500 ball when their leading shot taker is shooting 38% from the field.
P
playmaker0017
Guest
I want to clarify - Ron IS one of the main reasons for our recent inspired play.
I'm not "dogging" him because he had a poor shooting night. I've been saying that he's taking too many shots for a while. Wins or losses - I think 18-20 shots for him is too many. He's not good enough with the basketball for that type of production.
It's like NBrans said - when you are leading the team in shots and shooting sub-40% ... you have to start questioning the selection.
His defense is amazing. Simply amazing. I'm so glad we have Ron Artest, I can't even express it. I said I was for the trade well before it happened and people scoffed at me. I still am for having Ron Artest.
I just think we need to realize who and what he is. A GREAT to PHENOMINAL defender and a decent to good offensive player. His offensive skill is that he is a decent outside player and a good inside player. His not nearly as good as Reef in the post and not nearly as good as Bibby from deep. He needs to be passing up some of those shots.
I'm not "dogging" him because he had a poor shooting night. I've been saying that he's taking too many shots for a while. Wins or losses - I think 18-20 shots for him is too many. He's not good enough with the basketball for that type of production.
It's like NBrans said - when you are leading the team in shots and shooting sub-40% ... you have to start questioning the selection.
His defense is amazing. Simply amazing. I'm so glad we have Ron Artest, I can't even express it. I said I was for the trade well before it happened and people scoffed at me. I still am for having Ron Artest.
I just think we need to realize who and what he is. A GREAT to PHENOMINAL defender and a decent to good offensive player. His offensive skill is that he is a decent outside player and a good inside player. His not nearly as good as Reef in the post and not nearly as good as Bibby from deep. He needs to be passing up some of those shots.
Folsom Al
Starter
Not really much more to add ...
coulda/shoulda/woulda ....
go get some rest - come back ready to finish the season
my hopes were in a RE-BUILDING state, pretty much like the King's are .... but, I'm getting tired of the up-n-down - roller coaster like season we are experiencing ... no more of that (for me).
Looking ahead to next year ..
coulda/shoulda/woulda ....
go get some rest - come back ready to finish the season
my hopes were in a RE-BUILDING state, pretty much like the King's are .... but, I'm getting tired of the up-n-down - roller coaster like season we are experiencing ... no more of that (for me).
Looking ahead to next year ..
bibbinator
Bench
IIRC, the home team wins against a visitor playing back to backs about 65% of the time.
Assuming the distribution of road back to backs is even a team that wins 2 out of 5 of those games is beating the odds. Think of it as the visitor having a smaller hoop than the home team.
People shouldn't read too much negative into this game, the fact that we were a couple shots/calls out of it is a good sign.
Assuming the distribution of road back to backs is even a team that wins 2 out of 5 of those games is beating the odds. Think of it as the visitor having a smaller hoop than the home team.
People shouldn't read too much negative into this game, the fact that we were a couple shots/calls out of it is a good sign.
So, one game where Artest took way too many threes and didn't shoot well. He was wearing, and it was on a back-to-back. The other games I've been fine with, I don't mind 2 or 3 un-needed/bad shots.
The guy still has effects of the hip-pointer (lately can see it on occasion), and is still getting games under him (w/ Sac and in general).
The guy still has effects of the hip-pointer (lately can see it on occasion), and is still getting games under him (w/ Sac and in general).
P
playmaker0017
Guest
Kings113 said:
It's NOT one game.
He's been doing it since he got here. Shooting sub-40% night in and out.
If your hip hurts THAT bad - then defer. If you're out there, don't detract.
Yes it is. I didn't say percentage, I was talking about shot selection. I also didn't count the two 9-point games he had because that was still after the Utah game (when he got the hip-pointer).
I said effects of the hip-pointer, and you still see it on occasion during games (past the first 2 or 3 games after he originally got it at Utah).
I said effects of the hip-pointer, and you still see it on occasion during games (past the first 2 or 3 games after he originally got it at Utah).
I have to agree on playmaker0017 on this one....Ron isn't the best offensive player on this team....maybe he has potential to, but for now, no he is not.
His shot selection is very bad (same for Bonzi)...maybe he hasn't get used to our offense yet...but if i remember right, he had never been that kind of offensive player in the past. But again, if I remember right, the reason he asked to leave Indian was because he wanted more shots, he wanted to be "the man" at the offensive end instead of J' Oneal....so maybe our coaching staffs are trying to let him get a sense of what it is like to be "the man" on offensive end...at least please him a bit (just my prediction).
But anyways, no one ever doubt his influence on the Kings....relax, at least you don't see the "Ron need to go" thread yet.
His shot selection is very bad (same for Bonzi)...maybe he hasn't get used to our offense yet...but if i remember right, he had never been that kind of offensive player in the past. But again, if I remember right, the reason he asked to leave Indian was because he wanted more shots, he wanted to be "the man" at the offensive end instead of J' Oneal....so maybe our coaching staffs are trying to let him get a sense of what it is like to be "the man" on offensive end...at least please him a bit (just my prediction).
But anyways, no one ever doubt his influence on the Kings....relax, at least you don't see the "Ron need to go" thread yet.
tradepeja
Starter
this was a really, really strange game...i mean both teams played great defense on their end and horrible offense on the other end for the whole last 5 minutes of the game. Our last 4 or 5 shots got blocked, most of the Grizz's last possesions got broken up, they got to the line and missed, or got a shot but missed or airmailed it.
Then, to think a team like the Kings, a historically good 3pt shooting team, would go 1-19 is crazy. We could have gone 2-19 and won the game with how bad the offense was at the end there.
Weirdest game of the season so far.
Then, to think a team like the Kings, a historically good 3pt shooting team, would go 1-19 is crazy. We could have gone 2-19 and won the game with how bad the offense was at the end there.
Weirdest game of the season so far.
Ron was taking open 3s. He can hit them usually, he was just exhausted and playing injured. He played like 40 something minutes the night before, played with a hip pointer not healed yet, etc. Most of the shots we missed were short, our players' legs were just dead out there. We need maybe more 3 point shooting off the bench but we'll be fine.
3
3s4u
Guest
Peja, can you believe this?The Crew said:
From the few games that I saw Ron played as a Pacer, I don't ever recall him being that great a long distance shooter. Thus, I think he needs to decrease his number of long distance shot. The only Kings player, who should take more than 1/3 of their shot attempts from the long distance range, is Bibby.
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