[Grades] Grades v. Celtics 12/2/2016

[kingsboi]

Joerger has already shown to be stubborn by reinserting Koufos despite mixed results....and sticking with Affalo in spite of his underwhelming production. You could make the argument Affalo is better off the bench to feature him as a low post threat when Boogie rests....and Koufos will thrive more as a center with second unit, instead of combo center with Boogie. So willingness to experiment would include new starting line-up instead of sticking with one that has led to 7-12 record. Again, I am not saying Joerger is not justified in his decisions, because his options are not compelling, but his decisions over 19 games speak for themselves. They haven't worked.

Based off what we have seen from his Memphis days, he plays veterans over young players, especially as it pertains to the starting unit. I don't necessarily agree with him putting Afflalo out there, that's too many players needing the ball. Afflalo isn't a shooter and he maneuvers best in the post area, I suppose the 20 game experiment isn't enough here. 7-12 is a record that shows the team lacking in talent and misfitting parts in general IMO. A roster move or two that compliments your star player and what the head coach is looking for is a step in the right direction, may not be the winning recipe but at this point, you work with what you have.

 

[kingsboi]

Via ESPN

Kings coach Dave Joerger banished the Israeli forward to the end of the bench to start this season. However, Zach Lowe recalls the Kings' small-ball lineup from last season that featured Casspi, Rudy Gay and DeMarcus Cousins forcing mismatches all over the court.

and in the process entering the NBA history books in terms of defensive efficiency, especially from the outside.

 

[jcwkings]

Cuz it would make afflalo look bad with his 12.5m/yr contract

My only assumption is that they are shopping Afflalo once he can be traded. Temple will end up starting and it wouldnt surprise me if Malachi is playing minutes before long.

 

[sactownfan]

I thought Rudy had that responsibility? You probably say this because it happened once in the game where Cousins ended up on Crowder and make it sound as if it was a constant occurrence.

No at the time al horford was the only big/post threat and cousins and Koufos were still out there... do u even watch the games?

 

[Kingsfan23]

I'm a Cousins fan, but at this point if there is a value deal on the table I'm for the team taking it. I am now for blowing it up as I legit doubt this coming together in time. Have to be prudent about this. Too bad we don't have a GM I trust to handle it

At this point getting value and a top pick this year (by tanking) is more prudent than continuing on

 

[Blob]

Based off what we have seen from his Memphis days, he plays veterans over young players, especially as it pertains to the starting unit. I don't necessarily agree with him putting Afflalo out there, that's too many players needing the ball. Afflalo isn't a shooter and he maneuvers best in the post area, I suppose the 20 game experiment isn't enough here. 7-12 is a record that shows the team lacking in talent and misfitting parts in general IMO. A roster move or two that compliments your star player and what the head coach is looking for is a step in the right direction, may not be the winning recipe but at this point, you work with what you have.

There's an urgency with the Knicks and Mavs on deck. The team needs both of these games to establish themselves as legitimate. By the way, I will be in the first row baseline in Dallas next to the Kings bench next Wednesday. . (WILL TAKE AND POST PICS) So what Joerger has to decide between now and Sunday is this starting group one I can have confidence and trust in or do I need to alter the dynamic???? To me it is easy decision, (1) Temple or Ben for Affalo and/or (2) Willie for Koufos. There's already degree of stability with Rudy/Darren/Boogie. Everything else is flexible parts. It is time for Joerger to be flexible.

 

[Blob]

My only assumption is that they are shopping Afflalo once he can be traded. Temple will end up starting and it wouldnt surprise me if Malachi is playing minutes before long.

If we can find a sucker, er taker, for Affalo, that would be epic to the proportion of finding a sucker, er taker, for Marco. I don't know who would want Affalo, besides a GM who lost his satellite and internet connection since October.

 

[SacTownKid]

You have to realize on a team with Gay and Cousins the SG gets the short end of the stick. There is really no other way for it to even work. Just watch, if Gay is traded and Afflalo gets more consistent looks he'll look a lot better. It's also why trading Casspi is dumb if Gay isn't into the long term picture. The team is starting to falter which means it might be time to look for a move of Gay to get a few things to help now or in the future and see if guys like Afflalo and Omri can help pick up some of the slack.

 

[ockingsfan]

If we can find a sucker, er taker, for Affalo, that would be epic to the proportion of finding a sucker, er taker, for Marco. I don't know who would want Affalo, besides a GM who lost his satellite and internet connection since October.

Afflalo is essentially an ending contract. He and Toliver (ending contract) may be able to moved for a player that has a longer and worse contract that a team want to salary dump, i.e Joakim Noah type contract.

You never know, at the trade deadline, crazy things can happen.

 

[Blob]

You have to realize on a team with Gay and Cousins the SG gets the short end of the stick. There is really no other way for it to even work. Just watch, if Gay is traded and Afflalo gets more consistent looks he'll look a lot better. It's also why trading Casspi is dumb if Gay isn't into the long term picture. The team is starting to falter which means it might be time to look for a move of Gay to get a few things to help now or in the future and see if guys like Afflalo and Omri can help pick up some of the slack.

In the past Boogie was reluctant to share the rock. He's really not now. If we had a SG worthy of stepping up and being a star, Boogie nor Rudy would prevent that. Also, Omri has never proven himself to be a capable as a starter. Affalo was a capable starter prior to joining up with the Knicks. At this point thinking either one of these guys is to be more than respectable role player is wishful thinking. If either guy is a starter your team is probably not very good.

 

[hrdboild]

It's funny the hills that NBA coaches choose to die on. I suppose the picture looks different from up close on the sideline and in the lockerroom than from the wide angle of a camera lens, but there's always some lineup move that seems obvious and yet it takes months to materialize (if at all). Westphal chose to die with Marcus Thornton the superstar (and betting wrong on the DeMarcus ultimatum). Smart chose to die with Tyreke Evans off the ball. George Karl chose to die with Belinelli at SF and Rondo at SG spotted up in the corner in every 4th quarter and now we have an otherwise respectable coach who wants Koufos and Afflalo starting no matter how much they prove game to game that they don't deserve it. Temple at SG for defense and Casspi (or heck, give Tolliver a shot) at PF for floor spacing makes so much sense and yet if we get there at all it'll be too late. What does Dave Joerger know that we don't know?

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

Kosta plays in the first quarter and never returns after that, coach continues to give Trill opportunity after opportunity but he doesn't really do much with it. That is the reason why he won't be starting with Cousins so I suppose you continue to trot that line up out there and hope it eventually works out, or not.

Trill was given only 11 minutes playing time.

 

[hrdboild]

In the past Boogie was reluctant to share the rock. He's really not now. If we had a SG worthy of stepping up and being a star, Boogie nor Rudy would prevent that. Also, Omri has never proven himself to be a capable as a starter. Affalo was a capable starter prior to joining up with the Knicks. At this point thinking either one of these guys is to be more than respectable role player is wishful thinking. If either guy is a starter your team is probably not very good.

We're definitely not very good, but that doesn't mean we couldn't be better with a few tweaks. I'm not too bent out of shape over it because the roster speaks for itself... we downgraded in talent this year and we remain perpetually one piece short of being relevant. But it wouldn't hurt to tinker with the starting lineup and see if there's a combination of players that work together better.

In related news, Al Horford sure would look good in a Kings jersey right now. That was the veteran piece we needed not Afflalo, Tolliver, and Barnes. It's not the money. Those 3 guys add up to the same salary Horford is making. It's not the record either. We'd be better than Boston is right now with a Collison/McLemore/Gay/Horford/Cousins lineup. Nobody in Sacramento seems capable of selling free agents on this team's potential and I don't quite get why. The small-town thing might have made sense 10 years ago but not anymore. I would choose Sacramento over LA today if I were a millionaire. You're going to get 5 times the property for the same price. Anything you want to do in LA there's always a hundred thousand people who got there first. For a major metropolitan city there's not much of a night life down here anyway except Friday and Saturday night and these players are on the road all the time regardless. Unless you're a major foodie what are you really missing out on? Just hire a chef. The inside of a gym is pretty much the same everywhere and you're going to retire at 35 or so and live wherever you want. Is it the jerseys? Is purple too effeminite looking for male athletes? Is it the lack of prestige? You can raise the first championship banner in a city that will love you forever after that. Someone explain it to me, I just don't get it.

 

[swisshh]

Pls pls pls bring me Collison, Temple backcourt. You can't just wish energy onto slow-down players.

 

[Larry89]

Al Horford owned cousins tonight

 

[swisshh]

I would say Al Horford owned poor rotations which are a product of many things. Horford nailed open shots, but he nailed OPEN shots off of ROTATIONS. You expect that from your million dollah man. Al has never been alpha, but a supreme beta. Problem being that he saw the holes and took open jumpers.

Everything else is the why.
(Big Horford fan btw, just also know his game is essentially passive + productive.)

 

[Bricklayer]

You think Barnes was an A- performance? Ha, same analysis that thinks 53% TS and 0.8 assist to TO equates to superstar.

You may think that the Kings are so good that they can walk into Boston and give the Celtics all they want on a night when Rudy doesn't show up and Boogie struggles from the field, with nobody else playing a good game. I do not.

The flow of this game was determined when Barnes, Lawson and sometimes Temple came in off the bench flying around scrapping and challenging and making life hard for the Cs. Along the way Barnes, at 36, tied his career high in rebounds with 16, and carried the biggest +/- on the team. Without him this one is not close.

 

[The_Jamal]

The Koufos-Cousins thing continues to be stupid, especially when we have perfectly great small-ball LU's we should be running out with Cousins. Casspi-Gay-Cousins works... not sure why Joerger refuses to see that.

The other broken record issue is we just don't have the talent to finish out good teams as some have been saying all year. 3.5 back of the 8 seed already and the top 7 are clearly better than we are and the rest of the conference. Give it 10 more games and if it doesn't improve, it's time to start the fire sale. Cousins, Gay, Collison, Koufos can all get you something in return.

 

[Bricklayer]

Give it 10 more games and if it doesn't improve, it's time to start the fire sale. Cousins, Gay, Collison, Koufos can all get you something in return.

No it's really not.

People continue to ignore that these first two months are the toughest two months of the season for us (I would say easily, but Jan is rough too -- the whole thing is frontloaded). By New Years we'll be at 14 home games and 19 road games, with our home games largely composed of Spurs, Clippers, Rockets, Raptors etc. In completely ridiculous scheduling fashion, we don't actually have a SINGLE homestand for the entire month of December -- no more than 1 game in a row at home for the whole month. I don't know if that is the NBA's schedule maker at work, or if Vivek was just so eager to schedule random crap in his new building he threw his basketball team out on the road to make room for more Celine Dion concerts, but whoever it is can go **** themselves.

Regardless, we are not playing at all like a bad team. Everything is close. And the schedule is finally going to release us after the All Star break. If we're still breathing by that point, 8 of our first 10 games after the break are at home, and one of the 2 road games (Denver) is winnable. And our final 9 games of the season go MEM, UTH, @NOH, @MIN, DAL, @LAL, HOU, PHX, @LAC (who may be resting their main guys in their final game before the playoffs).

In other words all the crap we endure early finally results in us getting a sweet cushy ride in the last two months. If we are still breathing and fighting at that point we will absolutely have a chance to make a move against that kind of schedule. If we're within half a dozen games coming out of the break, we'll have a legit chance to scare some folks.

 

[The_Jamal]

No it's really not.

People continue to ignore that these first two months are the toughest two months of the season for us (I would say easily, but Jan is rough too -- the whole thing is frontloaded). By New Years we'll be at 14 home games and 19 road games, with our home games largely composed of Spurs, Clippers, Rockets, Raptors etc. In completely ridiculous scheduling fashion, we don't actually have a SINGLE homestand for the entire month of December -- no more than 1 game in a row at home for the whole month. I don't know if that is the NBA's schedule maker at work, or if Vivek was just so eager to schedule random crap in his new building he threw his basketball team out on the road to make room for more Celine Dion concerts, but whoever it is can go **** themselves.

Regardless, we are not playing at all like a bad team. Everything is close. And the schedule is finally going to release us after the All Star break. If we're still breathing by that point, 8 of our first 10 games after the break are at home, and one of the 2 road games (Denver) is winnable. And our final 9 games of the season go MEM, UTH, @NOH, @MIN, DAL, @LAL, HOU, PHX, @LAC (who may be resting their main guys in their final game before the playoffs).

In other words all the crap we endure early finally results in us getting a sweet cushy ride in the last two months. If we are still breathing and fighting at that point we will absolutely have a chance to make a move against that kind of schedule. If we're within half a dozen games coming out of the break, we'll have a legit chance to scare some folks.

If Boogie was signed on for 4 more seasons, I'd be right on board with you. I could accept the moral victories as a lot of this season has actually been some pretty good growth in terms of overall play for us. Joerger getting comfortable with a rotation, the players learning the system better and cutting down on the mistakes, and adding a few better rotational guys over the next few seasons are all things I could see happening with this group and being in the playoffs.

Problem is, that isn't reality. This group had 50 games in year 1 of Joerger to put it together; the contracts Vlade put around Cousins as well as the looming Cousins extension year always made that the case. There's no room or time for the moral victories anymore. We needed to put it together right away (again the situation we were put in by Vlade) or the team would have to have a major shake-up. And so far, we look like a team that's in year 1 of a new coach and in it's first year playing together; lots of stupid mistakes, starting slow, not gelling right away.

 

[dude12]

Doing a fire sale with 5 of our best players would be bad. You give Joerger the whole year. As we get closer to the trade deadline, I can see Rudy going. Heck, I can see Collison going since we have Lawson.....we need a PG upgrade and Rudy is forcing our hand. Trading Cousins? No. Our best chance is surrounding him with the right mix. We are making progress there.

 

[ppine]

I have enjoyed watching the Celtics since the early 1960s when I went to basketball camp with Morgan Wooten at DeMatha High School in Wash DC. His teams used to beat major college freshmen teams by 40 points. Coach would bring in special guests from Notre Dame and the NBA to talk with us. We always looked forward to getting a visit from Red Auerbach. He would smoke cigars and make shots from half court on one bounce.

Now I get to watch IT the NBA All-Star run their team. Brad Stephens is getting the most out of his players. I think we got out coached last night. It was a pretty well played game.

 

[KingsFan80]

Trill was given only 11 minutes playing time.

Because leaving him out there longer is a liability. He isn't good enough right now to be starting in the NBA. Could have told you that two years ago when he was playing at UK

 

[KingsFan80]

Doing a fire sale with 5 of our best players would be bad. You give Joerger the whole year. As we get closer to the trade deadline, I can see Rudy going. Heck, I can see Collison going since we have Lawson.....we need a PG upgrade and Rudy is forcing our hand. Trading Cousins? No. Our best chance is surrounding him with the right mix. We are making progress there.

I do agree with your second to last statement --Cousins can win with the right mix around him---I disagree we are making progress

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

Because leaving him out there longer is a liability. He isn't good enough right now to be starting in the NBA. Could have told you that two years ago when he was playing at UK

As a 2nd year player he's certainly good enough to get bench minutes in the NBA. Trill was one easy hesitation move from 4-5 shooting in 11 minutes, definately passable.

 

[Padrino]

The inside of a gym is pretty much the same everywhere and you're going to retire at 35 or so and live wherever you want. Is it the jerseys? Is purple too effeminite looking for male athletes? Is it the lack of prestige? You can raise the first championship banner in a city that will love you forever after that. Someone explain it to me, I just don't get it.

among top tier talents, it's often the endorsement opportunities and the national exposure that send them to big markets like LA. there's considerably more money to be made beyond the contract they sign with such a team. the kings can attract lower level talent easily enough, and even some mid-level talent, but anybody who can make an impact is always going to prefer some other destination for the advantages it provides over sacramento.

al horford, for example, went to boston as part of a recruitment process to lure kevin durant, and though it didn't ultimately work, i have to imagine playing in a legendary nba city for a well-regarded coach with a few other talented young players wasn't a bad consolation prize. sacramento, on the other hand, could never hope to lure a player like durant, and it's certainly not a legendary nba city. the kings have had eight winning seasons across thirty-one years in sacramento. that losing culture spans a variety of ownership groups, gm's, coaches, a poor draft history, an underwhelming free agent history, and an utter dearth of star-level talent.

this just isn't a franchise that inspires confidence, and few free agents are prepared to stake their careers on the prospect of raising the first championship banner in a city that the majority of them would fail to identify on a map if there wasn't an nba team playing here.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Doing a fire sale with 5 of our best players would be bad. You give Joerger the whole year. As we get closer to the trade deadline, I can see Rudy going. Heck, I can see Collison going since we have Lawson.....we need a PG upgrade and Rudy is forcing our hand. Trading Cousins? No. Our best chance is surrounding him with the right mix. We are making progress there.

You give him the year and Cousins becomes less movable with only one year left for prime assets and we lose out on a top pick this year (our swap with Philly and our tank)

Decision has consequences if it doesn't work out. I'm not seeing the progress yet

 

[dude12]

You give him the year and Cousins becomes less movable with only one year left for prime assets and we lose out on a top pick this year (our swap with Philly and our tank)

Decision has consequences if it doesn't work out. I'm not seeing the progress yet

He wants to be here and the Kings don't want to move him. I see the progress even if its in the stability of the organization.

 

[Kingster]

I think playing WCS and McLemore a lot more is throwing in the towel and will be seen by this team as such. Also, of all the players on this team, WCS is the last one to have earned those minutes, imo.

As an aside, my impression is that on collecting 50-50 loose balls this team has been terrible, especially in the 4th quarter. I believe that this is caused by lack of grit and instinct and athleticism. With the Kings having such little 3 point shooting firepower, in a league of 3 point shooting teams, you absolutely have to win those 50-50 situations on a regular basis to have a chance at .500 ball.

 

[pshn80]

In the past Boogie was reluctant to share the rock. He's really not now. If we had a SG worthy of stepping up and being a star, Boogie nor Rudy would prevent that. Also, Omri has never proven himself to be a capable as a starter. Affalo was a capable starter prior to joining up with the Knicks. At this point thinking either one of these guys is to be more than respectable role player is wishful thinking. If either guy is a starter your team is probably not very good.

Disagree. Cuz and Gay nay be willing to share the rock but they don't. Things get bad early and they tend to take on the responsibility of doing it themselves, the ball gets passed around until it stops with one of them. Instead of both Cuz and Gay going 1 for 7 from the 3 pt line (like last night) have a game plan and make the effort to have Afflalo or Temple or Casspi or most anyone else who can make a 3 pointer go 1 for 7. Air it out with someone else. It'd be better for the team, win or lose. It would require moving the ball and players more. It would de-emphasize to some extent both Cuz and Gay's shooting roles. If tried enough it might just help our problems of being too predictable, taking poor shots, turning it over as much, and finding ne or more reliable three point shooters AND having them take the shots. Don't trade anybody, play differently and better.