Grades v. Bucks 01/24
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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I think you're being a bit negative here, for one, and I also think there is no guarantee that even if we get a high draft pick that it even does anything for us. Of course I see your point, but we had 14 years of high draft picks and never once came close to drafting anything resembling a star. The prior dominant team was built from middling draft picks, a couple of good free agent pick ups and a lucky trade or two.
Their job is to win as many games as possible with the roster we have, not tank and hope for a superstar in the draft.
Their job is to win as many games as possible with the roster we have, not tank and hope for a superstar in the draft.
Of course not. And no one is saying that anything is guaranteed with a lottery pick. Just as, if you want to believe in the possibility of miracles or a freakishly timed plague, there's no guarantee that the Kings won't win a championship this year.
But, this year and this draft especially, I damn sure know where the better odds are.
But, this year and this draft especially, I damn sure know where the better odds are.
Im sure Im the only Kings fan in the land who is happy to see Kenny Thomas out and starting again.
The combo of SAR and Miller is just painful to watch because they both seem to just be sleepwalking through the motions.
At least when Kenny starts you can see his effort and hustle...Which at this point in this season is all I can ask for.
The combo of SAR and Miller is just painful to watch because they both seem to just be sleepwalking through the motions.
At least when Kenny starts you can see his effort and hustle...Which at this point in this season is all I can ask for.
Yeah, but they were all over the place (in the aisles, etc) even when Bogut wasn't on the floor. And I couldn't tell who they were rooting for, as they were not wearing team colors of either that I could tell (I'm partially colorblind, but no logos either) and seemed to be just having a "good old time" no matter what was going on in the game. 
Glad they were enjoying themselves, though!
Glad they were enjoying themselves, though! 
i agree with the first statement, although i think the second is an exercise in wishful thinking. most years, one of the teams that was realistically predicted to go to the championship game wins the championship. miami may not have been a favorite last year going into the championship game, but they were predicted to be one of the teams that came out on top in the east. the best teams are usually easy to spot, and its the teams with the most talent that usually win it all. luck is a factor, but i believe its a very small one.
so, it is each team's "job" to play to the utmost capacity of their abilities in the hope of winning a championship. the championship is the goal, but its one game. its not the big-picture, all-encompassing, day-in-and-day out, routine duty for the average nba player. so yes, i suppose tanking would fall under the category of not fulfilling that duty. however, for the organization, the goal is still a championship, and drafting excellent talent is one way to help in achieving that goal. so, in the long run, tanking can pay off, even if the short term "job" must suffer.
so, it is each team's "job" to play to the utmost capacity of their abilities in the hope of winning a championship. the championship is the goal, but its one game. its not the big-picture, all-encompassing, day-in-and-day out, routine duty for the average nba player. so yes, i suppose tanking would fall under the category of not fulfilling that duty. however, for the organization, the goal is still a championship, and drafting excellent talent is one way to help in achieving that goal. so, in the long run, tanking can pay off, even if the short term "job" must suffer.
i agree completely with this statement. it's pretty clear that this season is not a championship season, so it's time to think longer term. "playing to the best of your abilities" and fighting for each win this season is going to leave us dead in the middle for years to come.
let the kids play to the best of their abilities, let's see what we have for the future.
let the kids play to the best of their abilities, let's see what we have for the future.
Anyone ever heard of Pervis Ellison?
Let's play our asses off to be as good as possible. Every free agent or superstar demanding a trade wants to play for a "contender". Look at the ones right now: Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Vince Carter, etc. Those are the ones off the top of my head that seem to be on the trading block and wanting to go a "contender". Look at the Nuggets they were a contender and got A.I. What did they give up? Andre Miller, whooppie!!! I would rather rout for my team to win and go hard after the last playoff spot and hope they can do something magical in the playoffs and then be a place that everyone wants to go to. Back a few years ago we were in the news for every free agent and trade scenrio because everyone wanted to play here because we won a few games.
Let's play our asses off to be as good as possible. Every free agent or superstar demanding a trade wants to play for a "contender". Look at the ones right now: Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Vince Carter, etc. Those are the ones off the top of my head that seem to be on the trading block and wanting to go a "contender". Look at the Nuggets they were a contender and got A.I. What did they give up? Andre Miller, whooppie!!! I would rather rout for my team to win and go hard after the last playoff spot and hope they can do something magical in the playoffs and then be a place that everyone wants to go to. Back a few years ago we were in the news for every free agent and trade scenrio because everyone wanted to play here because we won a few games.
K9, as a starter, is pretty much guarenteed to scrap about...On nights where he is thuroughly outmatched, he doesn't do anything but you kind of have to expect it when he is a 6'7 power forward...It's not like he isn't trying.
And I know he doesn't try off the bench, and I don't condone that, but if he's the only hustle guy out of our bigs, he deserves to start.
At least the one hustle game out of seven is a better ratio than what you get out of SAR and Miller.
And I know he doesn't try off the bench, and I don't condone that, but if he's the only hustle guy out of our bigs, he deserves to start.
At least the one hustle game out of seven is a better ratio than what you get out of SAR and Miller.
People just don't have a good grasp of what they are talking about sometimes.
Pervis Ellison was a first pick by default ina lousy draft. Everyone knew it was a lousy draft before it even started. Maybe not how lousy, but everyoe knew that there were no surefire stars coming out, that anybody could go #1. It was a mess.
Here is the better question: Anybody ever heard of Shaquille O'Neal? David Robinson? Patrick Ewing? If one of those guys had been sitting there at #1 instead of Pervis, we woulkd be looking back on the day we got the #1 there as THE seminal moment in Kings history. Just as we might very well if we were to somehow land the #1 and grab Oden or Durant this year.
Two years ago I not-so-jokingly said that I would trade our entire roster to get LeBron James. People were bemused, or aghast, or assumed I was joking. I was not. One young player of that caliber is worth every single good but not great interchangeable piece on a roster. A virtual guarantee of contending years and title hopes (if not an actual title). The same applies this year. I would like to keep Kevin, as he's young and good enough to be a long term starter and supplementary scorer for the main man. But other than that, you can have the whole team, everybody. And give me your young Shaq/Admiral/Ewing, whoever. In two years I will have matched your record. In 5 years your guys will be in decline and I will be winning 50. In 10 years I will have played for titles while there will be nothing left of all that "good" crap I dumped on you. When a superstar or superstars are sitting out there available to a team who sucks, then it behooves you to suck grandly unless you have big expectations. My kingdom to draft a superstar.
Pervis Ellison was a first pick by default ina lousy draft. Everyone knew it was a lousy draft before it even started. Maybe not how lousy, but everyoe knew that there were no surefire stars coming out, that anybody could go #1. It was a mess.
Here is the better question: Anybody ever heard of Shaquille O'Neal? David Robinson? Patrick Ewing? If one of those guys had been sitting there at #1 instead of Pervis, we woulkd be looking back on the day we got the #1 there as THE seminal moment in Kings history. Just as we might very well if we were to somehow land the #1 and grab Oden or Durant this year.
Two years ago I not-so-jokingly said that I would trade our entire roster to get LeBron James. People were bemused, or aghast, or assumed I was joking. I was not. One young player of that caliber is worth every single good but not great interchangeable piece on a roster. A virtual guarantee of contending years and title hopes (if not an actual title). The same applies this year. I would like to keep Kevin, as he's young and good enough to be a long term starter and supplementary scorer for the main man. But other than that, you can have the whole team, everybody. And give me your young Shaq/Admiral/Ewing, whoever. In two years I will have matched your record. In 5 years your guys will be in decline and I will be winning 50. In 10 years I will have played for titles while there will be nothing left of all that "good" crap I dumped on you. When a superstar or superstars are sitting out there available to a team who sucks, then it behooves you to suck grandly unless you have big expectations. My kingdom to draft a superstar.
^You know it's serious when Bricklayer is breaking out the Shakespeare references.
Also, I agree. This is a Robinson/Duncan/Olajuwan/LeBron draft, not a Pervis Ellison/Olowokandi/Bogut draft. There's a major difference, and people who don't want to tank have no realistic strategy for coming up with a superstar. There's no superstar in free agency, it's pretty unlikely someone is going to trade us their superstar.... what's left?
I've been very suspicious of rebuilding through the draft, and I don't believe in rebuilding solely through the draft, heck, I might not even be in favor of tanking in another year. But watching both Greg Oden and Kevin Durant changed everything -- there's not one bona fide superstar in the draft, there are at least two, maybe more.
For the love of god, this team needs to tank now, tank often and tank hard until it cannot tank anymore. We can talk about winning games next season.
Also, I agree. This is a Robinson/Duncan/Olajuwan/LeBron draft, not a Pervis Ellison/Olowokandi/Bogut draft. There's a major difference, and people who don't want to tank have no realistic strategy for coming up with a superstar. There's no superstar in free agency, it's pretty unlikely someone is going to trade us their superstar.... what's left?
I've been very suspicious of rebuilding through the draft, and I don't believe in rebuilding solely through the draft, heck, I might not even be in favor of tanking in another year. But watching both Greg Oden and Kevin Durant changed everything -- there's not one bona fide superstar in the draft, there are at least two, maybe more.
For the love of god, this team needs to tank now, tank often and tank hard until it cannot tank anymore. We can talk about winning games next season.
Yes, everyone is frothing at the mouth for Oden/Durant. Trading for young, big, and talented players is extremely rare and cannot be the strategy. However, there is now a disgruntled star, not a super-star, sitting out there on the market in Pau Gasol. This is that rare situation that you hope for if the draft pick doesn't come
Give up anyone except Martin and our 1st rounder for Pau and now something interesting has happened. We have a solid core of 3 young stars in Gasol, Martin, and our 1st round pick (likely still a lottery pick in this deep draft). Fill in other youth (Garcia, Douby, Price, Williams), a couple vets and that actually might be intersting to watch.
It's not the franchise maker that getting a top 2 pick would bring, but it's a more controlled move and relies less on %
Give up anyone except Martin and our 1st rounder for Pau and now something interesting has happened. We have a solid core of 3 young stars in Gasol, Martin, and our 1st round pick (likely still a lottery pick in this deep draft). Fill in other youth (Garcia, Douby, Price, Williams), a couple vets and that actually might be intersting to watch.
It's not the franchise maker that getting a top 2 pick would bring, but it's a more controlled move and relies less on %
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I 100% agree with SacTownKid, isnt the point to always being taking steps forward rather than backward?? what good does taking a back seat in the nba n hoping some college players will revive this franchise. Dont see that working out too well for us. Building from the 8th seed is the way to go, be a decent team and and put together a team that improves each year. Why would we want to not make the playoffs and build towards an 8th seed with young unproven players. I do agree this roster isnt built to win it all but has pieces that can be built around. Making trades and signing the right free agents will have a much better result than banking on college kids to revive the franchise.
Well, you see, here is the natural progression without a rebuild:
2002-3: #2 seed, would have won it all if Webber's knee hadn't given out.
2003-4: #4 seed, second round exit.
2004-5: #6 seed, first round exit.
2005-6: #8 seed, first round exit.
We're right on course for a #10 seed and a draft pick in the low teens. If we keep it up, we can extend the slow-mo sinking process for another several years, and not get any good draft picks until 2011 or so.
Which is not my idea of a good time.
2002-3: #2 seed, would have won it all if Webber's knee hadn't given out.
2003-4: #4 seed, second round exit.
2004-5: #6 seed, first round exit.
2005-6: #8 seed, first round exit.
We're right on course for a #10 seed and a draft pick in the low teens. If we keep it up, we can extend the slow-mo sinking process for another several years, and not get any good draft picks until 2011 or so.
Which is not my idea of a good time.
i don't know if i'd call injuries a matter of luck. they're just a part of the game that every team has to deal with. unfortunately for the kings, historically, the injuries have been ill-timed.
but, the point is, championships are won, they aren't handed to anybody. as much as kings fans wanna point out that divac tap-out for a robert horry three-pointer, there's so much that goes into winning a game or losing a game. had divac just been able to rebound the ball cleanly, the kings probably would have won that game. there are plenty of factors, sure, but its hard to call championship winners simple benefactors of happenstance. that's all i'm saying.
but, the point is, championships are won, they aren't handed to anybody. as much as kings fans wanna point out that divac tap-out for a robert horry three-pointer, there's so much that goes into winning a game or losing a game. had divac just been able to rebound the ball cleanly, the kings probably would have won that game. there are plenty of factors, sure, but its hard to call championship winners simple benefactors of happenstance. that's all i'm saying.
sometimes you have to take a step backward in order to take 2 steps forward and that's exactly what rebuilding through the draft is. How do you plan on building on our team while maintaining an 8th seed? It only make sense if we are a team with a superstar and missing complimentary players. We are the opposite of that; we have plenty of complimentary player and no superstar. Nobody will give us a superstar with our collection of complimentary player (complimentary with FAT contract i might add). We also dont have much cap space so there's not really much room to maneuver. You're just going to stay afloat with really no purpose
That is like attempting to swing on a swingset without ever going backward. The backward motion is a necessary component of the next forward thrust.
And the point is to acheive the highest forward thrust (championship), and if that requires a little spilt milk along the way, so be it.
Merely sitting on the swing motionless and saying "ha! Look at me, at least I'm not going backward!" leads nowhere.
And the point is to acheive the highest forward thrust (championship), and if that requires a little spilt milk along the way, so be it.
Merely sitting on the swing motionless and saying "ha! Look at me, at least I'm not going backward!" leads nowhere.
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