Grades/post-game discussion v. Raptors - 12/10

[sactowndog]

Not to pick nits, because I agree with the substance of your post, but JaKarr Sampson is not on a 10-day contract. He's on a two-way contract. Small but possibly significant difference.

Is he? Thanks for the correction. It’s slightly more important because in that case he is bound to the Kings.

 

[sactowndog]

To me, what's interesting/concerning is that George Hill was gone once again for personal reasons. I'm curious to know if the team knows what they are, and if there will come a time when they take him out of the normal rotation because of it. I cannot recall another time when a starting player missed so many games because of non-game issues.

I think Hill has the same problems playing with the starters others have had. Can you name one player who has been moved from the second team to the first and played better. Conversely, how many players have played much better when put on the second team. I don’t think it’s just playing easier players.

 

[JCTNKINGFAN]

Weren't you singing Jakarr Sampson's praises just a few days ago after the Cavs game and propping him up as more than the fringe NBA player than he is and Joerger called him? Now all of a sudden he's telling it like it is.

It's interesting that this happened considering there's a desire to defend Vlade or Joerger's every action here and a propensity for love affairs with these hustle players like Sampson.

It is very Karl-esque. I don't particularly care because everything he said about Sampson is right, but everyone (rightfully) bought into the idea that Karl was an awful coach here. Everyone would be screaming their heads off about comments Karl made about certain players (Seth Curry/WCS ring a bell) and this really isn't that different.

Joerger did not belittle Sampson like Karl belittled some of his players. He was just being brutally honest that he cannot work him into the full-time rotation because that would takeaway minutes from the players being developed. He actually praised his effort. People need to realize that the nature of Sampson’s two-way contract also plays heavily into how much Joerger could use him even if he wanted to. I’m sure Sampson is aware of the situation and is grateful just to have his limited opportunity at this point. There are some on here that have a desire to find fault with Vlade or Joerger's every action and never miss an opportunity to get a dig in no matter how trivial.

 

[The_Jamal]

If I was Sampson and heard those comments my motivation would be pretty shot. I don't get how you can really defend it, it's a poopooty thing to say to a player playing hard for us right now.
Also discouraging energy players is classic Joerger.

Lol.

yeah Im sure Sampson, a dude who didn't play a single NBA minute last year is going to shrivel up and stop playing because Joerger was being honest. Fact is, dude has to continue to shine in his minutes if he wants to leapfrog guys we spent 1st round picks on. That simple. He's on a 2-way contract for a reason.

That said, I think he is a guy worth investing in. There's a lot of potential here for a small-ball PF with good athleticism who can switch, especially if he can add a jumper. His hustle/energy is obviously very good and he made a lot of positive plays that didn't show up on the box-score tonight. That said:

19 minutes
11 points on 5/5 shooting
4 rebounds
3 blocks
1 steal
+6 on the floor (something I usually ignore totally, but you actually saw/felt us get better with him on the floor. Reflects in the +/-)

with good hustle plays is pretty damn solid. I think he finds his way on a real NBA deal once we ship out some of the old dudes.

 

[The_Jamal]

Joerger did not belittle Sampson like Karl belittled some of his players. He was just being brutally honest that he cannot work him into the full-time rotation because that would takeaway minutes from the players being developed. He actually praised his effort. People need to realize that the nature of Sampson’s two-way contract also plays heavily into how much Joerger could use him even if he wanted to. I’m sure Sampson is aware of the situation and is grateful just to have his limited opportunity at this point. There are some on here that have a desire to find fault with Vlade or Joerger's every action and never miss an opportunity to get a dig in no matter how trivial.

Exactly. A guy who's the very definition of living on the NBA edge will eat up any footage he can give prospective teams for a real contract down the line. Even if nothing happens with the Kings, he's got a really solid 3-4 game run here that most guys in his position would never get.

That's why it's so stupid to think he'd stop playing for Joerger or "be insulted" by his comments. He's more than likely the exact opposite and just grateful for getting NBA run.

 

[Vladizzle]

No, you're not an ingrate or a troll. Neither is Vladizzle ... yet.

You think he has a good point about Joerger discouraging energy players? Please elaborate. You think Joerger hurt Sampson's feelings and now he's not gonna play hard? Seriously?

I think Vladizzle is unable to contain his hatred of all things Dave Joerger. Sometimes it just gets to be a bit overwhelming. That's why I said "approaching the city limits"...

It's not hatred just because you disagree with it. If anything, you are approaching cheerleader status for all things Kings. A Kings staff member could call one of the players a 'bag of crap' and you'd sit here saying 'well, it is possible that he smells bad'

You're just a modern day debater unfortunately, try to silence anyone who disagrees with you by labeling them.

At the end of the day, if you step outside your bubble, this isn't proper coaching etiquette. Coaches always will hype up players and have their best interest in mind, not 'he doesn't really know what's going on on the court'. I just urge you to find another coach who does that. Did you catch Vince's piece on why everyone loved Fizdale so much? He understood this is these guys livelihoods, he would tell players like Sampson 'we're gonna help you get paid, we're gonna help you get on a team'.

If it doesn't bother you, fine, but no need to defend it with every breath and anytime someone criticizes a Kings decision.

 

[Vladizzle]

Exactly. A guy who's the very definition of living on the NBA edge will eat up any footage he can give prospective teams for a real contract down the line. Even if nothing happens with the Kings, he's got a really solid 3-4 game run here that most guys in his position would never get.

That's why it's so stupid to think he'd stop playing for Joerger or "be insulted" by his comments. He's more than likely the exact opposite and just grateful for getting NBA run.

It doesn't matter if he is affected or not.. No one is saying he's going to stop playing... Doesn't mean it's not poor coaching etiquette and unnecessary.

 

[John Galt]

It doesn't matter if he is affected or not.. No one is saying he's going to stop playing... Doesn't mean it's not poor coaching etiquette and unnecessary.

He's shooting straight, and some men like guys who shoot straight.
When Willie comes back, Sampson won't have a spot in the rotation. That's it.

I always remember some reporter asking why Funderburke and Pollard weren't getting more minutes. Rick said "well, Vlade is better than those guys".

There is such a thing as just shooting straight.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think Hill has the same problems playing with the starters others have had. Can you name one player who has been moved from the second team to the first and played better. Conversely, how many players have played much better when put on the second team. I don’t think it’s just playing easier players.

It's not, well part of it might be. If you watch this game in particular they started the game almost running no pick and roll. When Hield and Koufos came in the entire strategy on the offensive end changed. Fox is being used up top and teams are sagging off of him. If he is used in pick and roll it's usually a play designed to swing the ball to the other side, nothing more. Not coincidentally that was Buddy's role with the starters as well. There are very real reasons why things are they way they are, and I'm starting to think it may indeed be a brilliant tank job. They might win more games than intended playing the right players in pick and roll. lol.

 

[Reverend]

It's not hatred just because you disagree with it. If anything, you are approaching cheerleader status for all things Kings. A Kings staff member could call one of the players a 'bag of poopoo' and you'd sit here saying 'well, it is possible that he smells bad'

You're just a modern day debater unfortunately, try to silence anyone who disagrees with you by labeling them.

At the end of the day, if you step outside your bubble, this isn't proper coaching etiquette. Coaches always will hype up players and have their best interest in mind, not 'he doesn't really know what's going on on the court'. I just urge you to find another coach who does that. Did you catch Vince's piece on why everyone loved Fizdale so much? He understood this is these guys livelihoods, he would tell players like Sampson 'we're gonna help you get paid, we're gonna help you get on a team'.

If it doesn't bother you, fine, but no need to defend it with every breath and anytime someone criticizes a Kings decision.

Is that not what Joeger has done though with Sampson by giving him the run he has had? I'll be the first to say that when I saw him thrown into the rotation initially I was not sold and upset that we are not developing younger players such as Skal and letting them learn through the bumps in the road, rather than sending them to the G league and giving a guy like Sampson an opportunity when the priority is developing our draft picks. I think there's a power struggle of two ideologys here and people are getting impatient and want to see the youth but the main idea is development and these guys will be better pros for having to earn it, not up for debate. Whether you like it or not, nothing you do or say can change the way the organization is being run so you might as well trust the process and stop sniping at one another over what you cannot control. If we are still having this conversation by this time next year then we can have another conversation but all good things take time, let's be careful optimists and let time do as it will before attacking one another over a plan that is in its infancy stages at this point.

 

[Vladizzle]

He's shooting straight, and some men like guys who shoot straight.
When Willie comes back, Sampson won't have a spot in the rotation. That's it.

I always remember some reporter asking why Funderburke and Pollard weren't getting more minutes. Rick said "well, Vlade is better than those guys".

There is such a thing as just shooting straight.

Yes, absolutely, but the head coach to the media isn't the place to do it.

Step outside the bubble for a bit boys.

 

[Reverend]

Yes, absolutely, but the head coach to the media isn't the place to do it.

Step outside the bubble for a bit boys.

Cut the politically correct bs for a moment and realize this is a mans league. These MEN are making millions of dollars to play a game as a career and they understand this is a business so I'd suggest you not take it so personally either

 

[Nokidding]

I love Sampson if the dude develops a decent shot he's easily a NBA player who should log minutes at the 3/4, I would to see him play some 3 and take Temple's minutes when WCS comes back or cut KK minutes and move WCS to the 5 and Sampson to the back up 4.

Good game again by Z-Bo and Hield the PG was very rookie tonight and we got a George Hill effort from the likes of Temple.

 

[VF21]

I love Sampson if the dude develops a decent shot he's easily a NBA player who should log minutes at the 3/4, I would to see him play some 3 and take Temple's minutes when WCS comes back or cut KK minutes and move WCS to the 5 and Sampson to the back up 4.

Do you really think it's possible though? It just hits me that we're in an unusual situation for a change - we've actually got too many players that could well deserve minutes. Of course, I guess that's better than how it's been for the past decade or so.

 

[Nokidding]

Do you really think it's possible though? It just hits me that we're in an unusual situation for a change - we've actually got too many players that could well deserve minutes. Of course, I guess that's better than how it's been for the past decade or so.

Well if we are about development Sampson is 24 and showing in most of his stints to play well and Temple has been trash lately and KK is always solid but both are like 30. I don't know if it's possible but I would not mind trying in particular since Temple is a SG and Sampson is the only legit man sized SF we got.

It's what I would like to see but I doubt it.

 

[Vladizzle]

Cut the politically correct bs for a moment and realize this is a mans league. These MEN are making millions of dollars to play a game as a career and they understand this is a business so I'd suggest you not take it so personally either

Lol it's not politically correct to not be a dbag towards players trying to make it on a team and especially one who actually provided much needed energy.

Don't know why I'm even responding to a VF21 sock account though.

 

[VF21]

I think Hill has the same problems playing with the starters others have had. Can you name one player who has been moved from the second team to the first and played better. Conversely, how many players have played much better when put on the second team. I don’t think it’s just playing easier players.

I don't understand. I'm talking about George Hill once again being unavailable to play because he had personal issues that required him to be away from the team.

 

[VF21]

Lol it's not politically correct to not be a dbag towards players trying to make it on a team and especially one who actually provided much needed energy.

Don't know why I'm even responding to a VF21 sock account though.

Enough.

 

[Vladizzle]

Enough.

Enough? Why being so sensitive bro? I'm just shooting it straight.

 

[VF21]

Well if we are about development Sampson is 24 and showing in most of his stints to play well and Temple has been trash lately and KK is always solid but both are like 30. I don't know if it's possible but I would not mind trying in particular since Temple is a SG and Sampson is the only legit man sized SF we got.

It's what I would like to see but I doubt it.

Oh believe me, based on what we saw the last two games on the road, I would definitely like to see more of Sampson. I suspect they will use him as much as possible this year (that's where having him on a tw0-way contract with a 45 day limit makes it more interesting). I read somewhere that tw0-ways can be for 1 or 2 years. What I don't remember reading is which of those we used for Sampson.

 

[ESP47]

It's not, well part of it might be. If you watch this game in particular they started the game almost running no pick and roll. When Hield and Koufos came in the entire strategy on the offensive end changed. Fox is being used up top and teams are sagging off of him. If he is used in pick and roll it's usually a play designed to swing the ball to the other side, nothing more. Not coincidentally that was Buddy's role with the starters as well. There are very real reasons why things are they way they are, and I'm starting to think it may indeed be a brilliant tank job. They might win more games than intended playing the right players in pick and roll. lol.

I really wish the brilliant tank job part was the truth but I think the reality of it is we have a coach who's heart flutters at the mere sight of ZBo so the whole team must revolve around him anytime he is on the court, whether it hampers their development or not.

Second unit comes in and all the sudden the offense changes and there's ball movement and plays being ran that usually compliment the players running them. First unit comes back in and it's dribble dribble, dump to ZBo, get out of the way.

I'm a big fan of the way he's playing at his age. It's impressive as hell. I just think his usage rate is far too high for a team with a bunch of young guys needing development.

 

[Jimbob]

well I don't know for sure but I thought I heard Sampson was all defense and no offence. I see he went 5 for 5 today including a 3 pointer in only 19 mins.
That to go along with 3 blocks and 4 boards.
Justin Jackson went 1 of 7 in 33 min.
Personally I don't give a rats bum about contract details. I'm tired of the Kings making dumb decisions including passing on superior draft talent. Jackson should develop in Reno and the big league playing time should go to Sampson.

 

[KingsSelecao]

I really wish the brilliant tank job part was the truth but I think the reality of it is we have a coach who's heart flutters at the mere sight of ZBo so the whole team must revolve around him anytime he is on the court, whether it hampers their development or not.

Second unit comes in and all the sudden the offense changes and there's ball movement and plays being ran that usually compliment the players running them. First unit comes back in and it's dribble dribble, dump to ZBo, get out of the way.

I'm a big fan of the way he's playing at his age. It's impressive as hell. I just think his usage rate is far too high for a team with a bunch of young guys needing development.

Pick and Roll depends on a high quality ball handler and usually a 2 guard. Kawhi, Lillard, Beal, Harden, and Derozen are some of the best executing it. Sometimes its a lead guard like Chris Paul or Steve Nash. Kings don't have that luxury of having premier ball handlers at the 1 or 2. Hield, while improving many facets of his game, Is still an awful ball handler, Temple too slow, and Bogdan really unproven.

Some Great Rollers are Gobert, Capela, Brooke Lopez, and even Embiid.
Plausibly, WCS could be fantastic in a pick and roll and even Randolph in certain match ups. Against more Athletic and Bigger Centers Randolph will have some problems.

 

[206Fan]

well I don't know for sure but I thought I heard Sampson was all defense and no offence. I see he went 5 for 5 today including a 3 pointer in only 19 mins.
That to go along with 3 blocks and 4 boards.
Justin Jackson went 1 of 7 in 33 min.
Personally I don't give a rats bum about contract details. I'm tired of the Kings making dumb decisions including passing on superior draft talent. Jackson should develop in Reno and the big league playing time should go to Sampson.

Jackson is more of a SG, but we already have Hill, Temple, Buddy, and Bogdan playing those positions. Kings desperately need a SF, and Jackson doesn't have the size for it yet. Sampson can easily play SF for us.

 

[206Fan]

Why didn't PapaG get any minutes tonight? Tonight the Raptors played Valanciunas and Poeltl for 22mins each. Those are good defensive matchups for Papa to get run time. It's completely unnecessary to play Randolph 34mins, especially when he's -27 tonight.

I can't help but feel like Dave is going to get white hairs from this inexperienced team. He understands that we're trying to rebuild, but it's obvious that he wants to win every game. You can't do that unless you ride 36yearold Randolph to retirement. The bright side for the Kings is that Randolph has played great here. He looks better than he did in Memphis the last 3 years. If he keeps this up, I think he could be a very valuable trade commodity at the deadline.

 

[ockingsfan]

1) Jakar is on a 10 day contract and Dave is appropriately not blowing smoke up his butt.

2) He praised his hustle and said it can overcome a lot of other deficiencies.

Also, since Jakar has been up and down with the G league team and the Kings, he's not going to know all the playbook.

Jakar is probably just reacting to a lot of the plays, since he hasn't been with big league club this whole year.

 

[upinsmoke]

Jackson is more of a SG, but we already have Hill, Temple, Buddy, and Bogdan playing those positions. Kings desperately need a SF, and Jackson doesn't have the size for it yet. Sampson can easily play SF for us.

He looks more of a 2 guard right now especially because of his light frame. Bogs looks like he can man the 3 for this season. Eventually Carter, Hill and Temple won't be with the team anymore so there will be done mins opening up. Buddy looks really comfortable being the 6th man so we'll see how things shake out. Just a ball park of what I'm seeing right now long term.

1. Fox / Mason
2. Bogdanovic / Buddy
3. TBD / Jackson or Malachi
4. Skal / Giles
5. WCS / Papagiannis

 

[sactowndog]

I don't understand. I'm talking about George Hill once again being unavailable to play because he had personal issues that required him to be away from the team.

Yeah but some of those issues could be related to the court.

 

[sactowndog]

Pick and Roll depends on a high quality ball handler and usually a 2 guard. Kawhi, Lillard, Beal, Harden, and Derozen are some of the best executing it. Sometimes its a lead guard like Chris Paul or Steve Nash. Kings don't have that luxury of having premier ball handlers at the 1 or 2. Hield, while improving many facets of his game, Is still an awful ball handler, Temple too slow, and Bogdan really unproven.

Some Great Rollers are Gobert, Capela, Brooke Lopez, and even Embiid.
Plausibly, WCS could be fantastic in a pick and roll and even Randolph in certain match ups. Against more Athletic and Bigger Centers Randolph will have some problems.

I think Bogdan and Willie have already shown they can run a strong pick and roll.

 

[VF21]

Yeah but some of those issues could be related to the court.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure "personal reasons" are just that - personal - and not related to the Kings. I know there has been mention before of family issues... whatever they are, I hope they end well for him and his family. It cannot be easy to try and deal with your own issues when you're across the country.