[Grades] Grades and/or post-game discussion - Kings @ Cavs 12/6

#61
Those guys were hustlers, but they were also pretty much centers who can only guard one position. JaKaar can guard 1-4 comfortably and probably hold his own against some 5's. In the age of having to switch a lot, that is a tremendous asset.
coming more at it from the fan favorite big man perspective. Many here loved Williams and Brock, i feel JaKaar as you point out has more potential to stick and be here long(er)
 
#62
Ham said that Skal had 29 points, 18 rebounds, and 7 blocked shots in his G league game. I guess he doesn't want to be there....:D
Im really hoping that after December 15th the roster looks very different. Skal needs the ball in the same apots ZBO gets it, but at this stage isnt as effective or consistent as ZBo so doeant get the touches. However, without thise touches in game hard to not see his progress slowed as joeger will continue to ride zbo
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#64
My concern with De'Aaron still revolves completely around his shot. He's a decent finisher at the rim (and will improve as he gets stronger), he's as quick as advertised, he's shown better court vision/awareness than I expected and he has the right mindset with leadership traits.

But the reality is that he's largely being nullified because defenders don't respect his shot at all. They sag way off, go under every screen and take away driving Lane's, daring him to shoot.

None of this is news, I think we all expected it to be the case. But watching it play out it's painfully obvious that Fox's career is going to hinge on him becoming a threat from outside.
Even with the current state of his outside shot he could be considerably more effective if he would incorporate more change of direction and change of speeds into his game. One example is when he sped down the court with the ball in a straight line and lost it because the defender anticipated where he was going to be. Just dialing back the speed a tad, and changing direction somewhat (to the right) would have ended in a much different result - either a foul or a make. I'm optimistic all of the above will happen because 1) he's a competitor and 2) he's smart. But like I said prior to the draft, he's going to be a project and he's not yet close to being a real impact player. He needs to 1) work on his intermediate shot, 2) work on changing directions and speeds (e.g. cross-over dribble, Euro-step) and view lots of film to see when and how he can incorporate those tactics into his game, and 3) get stronger. I actually like the competition that Mason is giving him now. It's going to make him a better player down the line.
 
#65
Nice effort and I think we win if Boggy doesn't choke away those beautiful open looks. (1-7 on 3s) .

We needed a little more cushion to overcome the predictable LeBron Flurry and Boggy could not buy one.

I also think Joerger made a mistake going to back to Fox in the stretch. I would have stayed with Mason. Costly mistake!

But more than that I am starting to get fed up with the passive George Hill stealing money and playing like a zombie.

This guy has apparently NO interest and NO desire and NO ability to take over a game when it is there for the taking.

Supposedly Hill is having a hard time knowing when the look for his shot and create or defer to the young kids?

Well I don't buy that excuse because all I saw him doing was deferring to Randolph and passing up shots.

George Hill doesn't have enough SPEED or AGGRESSIVENESS.

His shooting from 3 is excellent (44%) but his attempts should be DOUBLE (only 2.5 attempts ---> target 5.0) .

How much of this passivity has to do with age or lingering toe injury from last season or the deliberateness of Joergers offense or that the lane tends to close down with Z-Bo / Willie / Skal clogging it is open for debate. What is NOT open for debate is how much more aggressive Mason as a rookie is by comparison, so if Mason can make things happen consistently why cannot our $20 Million Dollar Man show life more than 1 out of ever 5 games?!?!?!? It is getting to be a bit of a recurring JOKE that we are paying this guy all this money and all he does is stand on the perimeter and make entry passes then get out of the way. Weak!

I expected when we signed Hill we were getting a better defender than Collison who would provide equal scoring punch.

Darren was the far more aggressive scorer getting to the rim and draining the open J.

Mentor or not and unless we can find a taker on Dec 15 or soon thereafter, this signing is turning into a colossal blunder:
  • Darren: 12 points / 6 assists / 3 rebounds / 1.3 steals and 17 PER on 57% TS for the Pacers (2/20 only 12M guaranteed) . - 30 years old
  • Hill: 9 points / 2 assist / 3 rebounds / 0.9 steals and 12 PER on 55% TS for the Kings (3 /57 with 41 M guaranteed) - 31 years old
Now does Hill have value as a mentor to Mason and Fox? Sure, but the value of a mentor is diminished when the mentor and allegedly one of the better guards in the league is not able to back up his words with actions.

Notice Hill's low assist tally too compared to DC. This reflects an inability to beat his man draw defenders and kick to the open man for the assist.

Now onto JaKarr:

JaKarr shows the contrast of a frontline player able to defend and rebound aggressively without fouling, something none of our other bigs are capable of doing consistently.

Season High Rebounds:

  • JaKarr - High of 16 rebounds in 4 games
  • Willie - High of 11 rebounds in 23 games
  • Skal - High of 10 rebounds in 23 games
I like having a guy like JaKarr who moves his feet, holds his position and uses his athleticism and strength to exert his will in the paint.

This is what we ALL have been waiting to see more from Willie and Skal and it has been VERY slow coming!

There is good and bad news with the emergence of JaKarr last night:

  • Good: JaKarr bodes well for our competitiveness and rebounding if he performs like he did last night.
  • Bad: JaKarr offsets the weaknesses of Z-Bo to a degree (rebounding and lateral quickness) so this will give Joerger more fuel to "ride-and-die" with Z-Bong.
Randolph played a very nice game last night, probably his best as a King, but this team is going to suffer from an identity crisis with him in the mix. Are we a running team? Well yes and no. (Z-Bo doesn't run, most everyone else does). Are we a defensive-oriented team ? Well yes and no (Z-Bo doesn't defend beside guarding his man in the post).

The good outweighs the bad with JaKarr. It is nice to see a Kings interior player intuitively know where to be to grab the board and do his work early to grab the board after witnessing Skal and Willie wander cluelessly in the paint too often and get pushed out of the way by opponents who seemingly want it more.

I fully support the demotion of Skal to the G-League. Get your act together, kid! And hit the weights.

Tomorrow: Boogie vs. JaKarr, Battle of the Titans :)
 
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#66
My concern with De'Aaron still revolves completely around his shot. He's a decent finisher at the rim (and will improve as he gets stronger), he's as quick as advertised, he's shown better court vision/awareness than I expected and he has the right mindset with leadership traits.

But the reality is that he's largely being nullified because defenders don't respect his shot at all. They sag way off, go under every screen and take away driving Lane's, daring him to shoot.

None of this is news, I think we all expected it to be the case. But watching it play out it's painfully obvious that Fox's career is going to hinge on him becoming a threat from outside.
Yeah, one thing I have to remind myself about Fox is that he's only 19/20. I agree with you. His lack of 3pt shot will affect an entire offense. As you pointed, it's evident just in the high pick game alone. Anytime he takes a screen, not only will defenders go under it, but it becomes so easy for them to defend because all they'll do is collapse inside. Teams also have no problem depending Fox just for the drive. Make him shoot the mid-range. It's always been a low-percentage shot even if he makes a lot of them.

This is why I wanted to give Fox the keys to the franchise. I want to see if he can be our franchise player which would make the rebuilding process a lot more efficient. If he looks like someone who can be our center piece, then we need to immediately start theorizing a roster that fits him..especially because he can't shoot. With Fox, he's always going to be more successful as an up-tempo player. So you need to draft with fit in mind. If we decide Fox is our franchise player, you wouldn't want to draft a slower half-court player like 7'1 DeAndre Ayton. Instead, maybe you think about a high-motored quick player like Marvin Bagley. Then if you decide someone like WCS is a part of your core, you absolutely have to draft a floor spacer to compensate for Fox.

Kings can't afford redundantness right now since we're without the 2019 pick.

These are all the serious things that the Kings have had to thought about before drafting Fox. His lack of shooting plays a big part in how the Kings will have to build. I hope they thought it all through.. and I hope we see and uncensored and more aggressive Fox soon. Just so we can evaluate where he fits in our long-term plans. Is he simply a franchise PG? or is he a franchise player? There's a big difference between the two, and if this is how we're going to be playing him for the rest of the season, it's impossible to tell. You also don't want to be making blind bets. I think there are certain bluechip prospects who you came make blind bets on Kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis, KAT, Ben Simmons, etc, but Fox isn't one of them.
 
#67
My concern with De'Aaron still revolves completely around his shot. He's a decent finisher at the rim (and will improve as he gets stronger), he's as quick as advertised, he's shown better court vision/awareness than I expected and he has the right mindset with leadership traits.

But the reality is that he's largely being nullified because defenders don't respect his shot at all. They sag way off, go under every screen and take away driving Lane's, daring him to shoot.

None of this is news, I think we all expected it to be the case. But watching it play out it's painfully obvious that Fox's career is going to hinge on him becoming a threat from outside.

This is a big reason why I want ZBO/Hill gone to truly turn the keys over to Fox. Meaning 33+ MPG and him controlling the pace/leading the offense and running units out with him that actually complement his talents. ZBO/Temple/Hill/Vince/Koufos pretty much all are the antithesis of the kind of guy you'd want Fox to play with; half-court/slow/grind-it-out kind of guys.

I honestly think the biggest issue is the divide between our young guys skill-sets and our old guys skill-sets are opposites of each other. And because everyone is mixed in together, no one can really get in a solid rhythm.
 
#68
This is a big reason why I want ZBO/Hill gone to truly turn the keys over to Fox. Meaning 33+ MPG and him controlling the pace/leading the offense and running units out with him that actually complement his talents. ZBO/Temple/Hill/Vince/Koufos pretty much all are the antithesis of the kind of guy you'd want Fox to play with; half-court/slow/grind-it-out kind of guys.

I honestly think the biggest issue is the divide between our young guys skill-sets and our old guys skill-sets are opposites of each other. And because everyone is mixed in together, no one can really get in a solid rhythm.
I think these things will come but not right now nor in the near future. We need, the development process needs the vets playing with the young guys. IMO we need the process we are in now even though you are right about Fox needing a different pace than he gets most of the time now. He is learning and probably it’s best if he moves into his style in sync with his body development. He needs to be stronger and that comes more slowly.
 
#70
I was very sad to learn that Sampson is a G League player with a 45 day limit with the Kings. It was obvious that the missing ingredient on the Kings roster is hard-nosed physical players that are willing to mix it up and go after every rebound and loose ball. Sampson changed the personna of the Kings and they need more players like him.
 
#71
This is a big reason why I want ZBO/Hill gone to truly turn the keys over to Fox. Meaning 33+ MPG and him controlling the pace/leading the offense and running units out with him that actually complement his talents. ZBO/Temple/Hill/Vince/Koufos pretty much all are the antithesis of the kind of guy you'd want Fox to play with; half-court/slow/grind-it-out kind of guys.

I honestly think the biggest issue is the divide between our young guys skill-sets and our old guys skill-sets are opposites of each other. And because everyone is mixed in together, no one can really get in a solid rhythm.
The Kings need a stretch four. If Fox was the pick at five then I was thinking Markkanen would be a great fit at 10. Had he not gone before then I think that would've been the pick. As it turns out Kuzma looks like as good or better as a stretch four.

Fox
Bogdanovic/Hield
Porter Jr
Markkanen/Kuzma
Cauley-Stein

Is pretty much the lineup I'd want if I'm building around Fox.

Mason, Temple, Sampson, Labissiere's, Jackson and Koufos/Papagiannis/Giles isn't a bad bench either.

Randolph isn't a good fit with Fox though I like him better at C than PF but the reality is that this team lacks consistent scoring outside of Zbo so for now he has to be a key contributor.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#72
I was very sad to learn that Sampson is a G League player with a 45 day limit with the Kings. It was obvious that the missing ingredient on the Kings roster is hard-nosed physical players that are willing to mix it up and go after every rebound and loose ball. Sampson changed the personna of the Kings and they need more players like him.
He was signed to a 2-way contract. I'm pretty sure he's not going anywhere.
 
#73
I was very sad to learn that Sampson is a G League player with a 45 day limit with the Kings. It was obvious that the missing ingredient on the Kings roster is hard-nosed physical players that are willing to mix it up and go after every rebound and loose ball. Sampson changed the personna of the Kings and they need more players like him.
He was signed to a 2-way contract. I'm pretty sure he's not going anywhere.
Is the 45-day limit on the main roster part of the 2-way contract agreement? If so, does this mean that he can only play on the main roster for 45 days throughout the entire regular season? Or is it 45 days at a time, and he has to go back down to the G-League for a while before being eligible for another 45-day call-up to the main roster?

Or is ppine just misunderstanding how the 2-way contracts work?
 
#74
Is the 45-day limit on the main roster part of the 2-way contract agreement? If so, does this mean that he can only play on the main roster for 45 days throughout the entire regular season? Or is it 45 days at a time, and he has to go back down to the G-League for a while before being eligible for another 45-day call-up to the main roster?

Or is ppine just misunderstanding how the 2-way contracts work?
It's 45 days with the team for the entire season.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#76
Is the 45-day limit on the main roster part of the 2-way contract agreement? If so, does this mean that he can only play on the main roster for 45 days throughout the entire regular season? Or is it 45 days at a time, and he has to go back down to the G-League for a while before being eligible for another 45-day call-up to the main roster?

Or is ppine just misunderstanding how the 2-way contracts work?
He has to spend the majority of his time with the Bighorns. He can only spend a total of 45 days with the Kings, which includes off-days (meaning he will probably be reassigned to the Bighorns on days when the Kings aren't playing). This means he'll get to know the two-hour drive between Sacramento and Reno VERY well. I'm not sure how/when his contract can be upgraded to a full Kings contract, but I'm pretty sure the front office is all over it. :)
 
#77
He has to spend the majority of his time with the Bighorns. He can only spend a total of 45 days with the Kings, which includes off-days (meaning he will probably be reassigned to the Bighorns on days when the Kings aren't playing). This means he'll get to know the two-hour drive between Sacramento and Reno VERY well. I'm not sure how/when his contract can be upgraded to a full Kings contract, but I'm pretty sure the front office is all over it. :)
Bummer :(
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#78
We've played 24 games, meaning we have 58 left. What they'll most likely do is feature him at home and send him back to Reno when the Kings are on the road. I haven't done the math, but I think this will work out about as well as can be expected on that kind of contract. I honestly think Sampson has surprised some people with his production thus far. Of course, so did Brian Skinner...
 
#79
We've played 24 games, meaning we have 58 left. What they'll most likely do is feature him at home and send him back to Reno when the Kings are on the road. I haven't done the math, but I think this will work out about as well as can be expected on that kind of contract. I honestly think Sampson has surprised some people with his production thus far. Of course, so did Brian Skinner...
I can live with that...

Will I live with that? Only time can, and will, tell. :D
 
#81
He has to spend the majority of his time with the Bighorns. He can only spend a total of 45 days with the Kings, which includes off-days (meaning he will probably be reassigned to the Bighorns on days when the Kings aren't playing). This means he'll get to know the two-hour drive between Sacramento and Reno VERY well. I'm not sure how/when his contract can be upgraded to a full Kings contract, but I'm pretty sure the front office is all over it. :)
I wonder how strict the NBA is on what constitutes being sent to the G league? Does he really have to travel back and forth or is it just an "on paper" move?
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#82
I wonder how strict the NBA is on what constitutes being sent to the G league? Does he really have to travel back and forth or is it just an "on paper" move?
I think it's pretty strict. I recall Koz or Doug or someone mentioning how many travel miles he'd be logging.