Quit trying to intentionally misconstrue my argument. I'm not saying that Petrie should have known in 2000 who was going to be a good player available in the second round in 2004. I am saying that I don't think it's unreasonable that Petrie should have known (or had a good idea) in 2000 who was going to be a good player available in 2001, and planned accordingly.While you did mention you wanted up to trade up from the R. Robertson slot in '99, the greater debate was about Petrie moving up in general and the players you had mentioned earlier came from a number of years. For many of the players and years other than '99-'00 the Kings did not have secound round picks as they were thrown into other deals. Unless your suggesting that Petrie should have traded those 99'/'00 picks for a second rounder 4-5 years later to get Monta Ellis. In that case I will concede that Petrie's scouting of 7th-8th graders leaves a lot to be desired.
I actually don't sweat Ellis so much, because that year our pick went to Boston in payment for the Songaila trade. But, unless I'm mistaken, Utah drafted Paul Milsap using the pick they got from us in the Keon Clark trade... why did we make that trade again?
He might not have known in 2000 who was going to pan out in 2006, but by 2004, he should have had an idea...
Uh, no. I am responsible for this thread hijack, and I'm quite certain that my foray into this thread consisted of the words "solid NBA players," not "impact players." I started mentioning those players only because it was intimated that Oz rarely, if ever made mistakes, and since he's only taken one "bust" in the first round, it doesn't count, as if you can't expect to get good players in the second round. My contention was that you could, and that we didn't.1 - No need to do any homework for me. We were never discussing if role players ever got drafted in the second roung. This started as a discussion about getting real impact players like Arenas, Ellis and Redd.
Looking at it another way, in 2001, Oz traded the 29th pick in the draft to Atlanta for, from my point of view, no good reason. Carlos Boozer was taken 34th. Instead of wasting a first-rounder on Atlanta, we should have just kept it and taken Boozer. Now, technically, Oz still has a chance to redeem himself, since we're still owed a "future" first-rounder from Atlanta... But, as they appear to be a team on the rise, I'm not holding my breath. I don't know what the statute of limitations is on that pick, but their pick may not even be as good as ours by the time they give it to us.
Right, 'cause who the hell needs a career 7.5 point, 4.5 assist, defensive backup point guard that's been a proven rotation player (and even starter) in this league?Something tells me you still would not be singing Petrie's praises on this subject if he had traded up to get Earl Watson, Ryan Hollins or some of the other guys on this appended list. That list is highly dissapointing as it is, most of those are fringe role players or rotation players for team worse than us. I can see the headline for Petrie's firing now: "Geoff Petrie fired by Kings for failing to trade multiple second round picks he didn't have to acquire Dan Gadzuric to sit on the bench like he does for the Bucks, a worse team in a worse conference.
Your definition of "fringe role players" is highly dubious. I named nine guys in my last post. Six of them either are right now, or have in the recent past, proven to be starters and/or top-seven rotation players on playoff teams. Who needs guys like that, right?
That remains to be seen.2 - You are right. I was using NBADraft.net and their formatting for the 1998 draft only listed draft night trades, not previous player trades which netted second round picks. That was a mistake on my part. However, if that counts, Petrie did get a 2nd round pick in the Bibby trade which is essentially the same thing as this.
I don't. If the average poster on KingsFans appeared to think the Petrie were an average GM, then I might. But that's not how it appears to me. From my point of view, it appears as though the average poster on KingsFans considers Petrie to be the Great and Powerful Oz. To me, when you're considered elite, you get held to a different standard. I don't hold Oz to the same standard of Isaiah Thomas, I hold him to the standard of RC Buford, of Joe Dumars, of (God help me) Mitch Kupchak. Saying that "Joe Dumbass GM screwed up, too, so Petrie must be okay" doesn't cut it with me. Like I said before, what other GM's do is of little consequence to me and, in my opinion, holds little to no bearing on what Petrie does/should do.3 - While I get the final point you are trying to make, it is still a sophistry. Yes, pointing out that other GMs have made mistakes does not mitigate another GM of his responsibilities. However, I also feel pointing out every player a GM did not draft is not a fair indictment of his abilities.