Goodrich: The Kings will be solid but not great

[Padrino]

First, you're assuming this NEW SYSTEM - as some people emphasize it - is going to be so radical and unusual that no one will recognize it. I simply don't agree. It's not like Musselman is going to be asking them to shoot backwards or play on their hands.

You don't expect the team to understand what Musselman wants them to do? Why not? New players do it all the time.

People are acting as though all our players are so ingrained with the "Adelman system" that they'll be standing there like dummies, unable to move or figure out what they're supposed to do next, etc.

For the most part, our players didn't get that much exposure to Adelman's system (if you're going to insist he relied on one particular system, which he didn't) anyway, so unteaching them all those bad habits isn't going to be that difficult.

I'm not going to buy into all this hand-wringing about how hard it's going to be for a bunch of guys who are being paid millions of dollars a year to play a game most of them have played since high school or earlier to adapt to a new coach.

it may not be that hard...but considering the holes still remaining in the kings front line, not to mention some still-glaring defensive deficiencies, an adjustment period of this nature can mean the difference between making or missing the playoffs. and there is going to be an adjustment period. PERIOD. eric musselman has never coached this particular group of players. that's an adjustment. apart from tr dunn, the coaching staff that musselman assembled has never worked with the kings before. this may be minor, but its an adjustment. kevin martin will be starting full time. that's an adjustment. bonzi wells left town, and his rebounding left with him, subtracting from the kings already-meager rebounding totals. that's an adjustment. john salmons will be backing up mike bibby. he's new to the kings, and that's also an adjustment. quincy douby will likely be worked into the rotation at some point. that's an adjustment. pile on all of these little adjustments that need to be made, and the kings could be knee-deep in the loss column before they know what hit them. now, maybe the transition is smooth and it translates to wins, but its ludicrous to assume that everybody is going to just adapt accordingly at a moment's notice. this team will struggle. there will be highs and there will be lows. some things will work and some things won't. they may make the playoffs. they may miss the playoffs. regardless, there's more work to be done...

 

[TheJoker]

For the most part, our players didn't get that much exposure to Adelman's system (if you're going to insist he relied on one particular system, which he didn't) anyway, so unteaching them all those bad habits isn't going to be that difficult.

I'm not going to buy into all this hand-wringing about how hard it's going to be for a bunch of guys who are being paid millions of dollars a year to play a game most of them have played since high school or earlier to adapt to a new coach.

Basketball players are payed millions to play the game and to learn the game/new system.

this has nothing to do with financial.

at the most early part it could take 2 months or even 1 month for us to get the system and what Musselman wants the team to do.

 

[VF21]

Basketball players are payed millions to play the game and to learn the game/new system.

Exactly. They are paid millions to play the game and follow instructions, including learning new "systems."

this has nothing to do with financial.

I didn't say it did. What I was indicating is that this isn't just playground stuff. These guys are the best of the best. They are the mostly paid professionals in their field. They KNOW their jobs.

at the most early part it could take 2 months or even 1 month for us to get the system and what Musselman wants the team to do.

It's not written in hieroglyphics. They can and will learn it, and probably a lot faster than you think. Will they come out at the peak of their game in November, knowing everything Muss wants and needs them to do? Of course not. That doesn't happen even without a coaching change. But they're not going to stand around without a clue.

 

[Kings113]

It's not written in hieroglyphics. They can and will learn it, and probably a lot faster than you think. Will they come out at the peak of their game in November, knowing everything Muss wants and needs them to do? Of course not. That doesn't happen even without a coaching change. But they're not going to stand around without a clue.

Exactly.

 

[walker60]

From what I know about Musselman, I don't think his system will be all that hard to learn anyways...

 

[VF21]

it may not be that hard...but considering the holes still remaining in the kings front line, not to mention some still-glaring defensive deficiencies, an adjustment period of this nature can mean the difference between making or missing the playoffs. and there is going to be an adjustment period. PERIOD.

eric musselman has never coached this particular group of players. that's an adjustment. apart from tr dunn, the coaching staff that musselman assembled has never worked with the kings before. this may be minor, but its an adjustment. kevin martin will be starting full time. that's an adjustment. bonzi wells left town, and his rebounding left with him, subtracting from the kings already-meager rebounding totals. that's an adjustment. john salmons will be backing up mike bibby. he's new to the kings, and that's also an adjustment. quincy douby will likely be worked into the rotation at some point. that's an adjustment.

pile on all of these little adjustments that need to be made, and the kings could be knee-deep in the loss column before they know what hit them. now, maybe the transition is smooth and it translates to wins, but its ludicrous to assume that everybody is going to just adapt accordingly at a moment's notice.

this team will struggle. there will be highs and there will be lows. some things will work and some things won't. they may make the playoffs. they may miss the playoffs. regardless, there's more work to be done...

First - paragraphs are your friends.

I never said nor did I even imply adapting to a new coach is going to be instantly successful. As I pointed out to TheJoker, though, it's not as though these guys haven't had to make adjustments before.

I guess I'm willing to give our players and our coaches a little more credit for being proficient at their craft than a lot of you.

I'm sure there will be struggles. There are every year. I'm sure there will be highs and lows.

BUT we do have Bibby, Kevin, Ron, Brad, KT, SAR and Corliss who hopefully have enough accumulated experience to help in the transition. Bottom line is - they are profesisonal and they want to win. They have a new coach who is very hungry to prove himself. This could end up being a team that is able to come together and produce collectively much more than their individual stats would indicate.

 

[TheJoker]

Exactly. They are paid millions to play the game and follow instructions, including learning new "systems."

And it takes time though thats arguable...

I didn't say it did. What I was indicating is that this isn't just playground stuff. These guys are the best of the best. They are the mostly paid professionals in their field. They KNOW their jobs.

No doubt they do, but learning a system is something that doesn't happens automatically.

It's not written in hieroglyphics. They can and will learn it, and probably a lot faster than you think. Will they come out at the peak of their game in November, knowing everything Muss wants and needs them to do? Of course not. That doesn't happen even without a coaching change. But they're not going to stand around without a clue.

Well at the latest it can take 1-2 months but at this point there is no indication we can peak at November having a new coach is hard to adjust for a player mostly because you're not familiar with that person and what hes trying to get the best out of you.

you can bet Eric is gonna use alot of different concepts and the players are gonna have a hard time to get it fast.

 

[Padrino]

First - paragraphs are your friends.

they may be your friends, but as someone who typically writes in a constant stream of consciousness, they're not my friends.

 

[VF21]

But you're able to break up your poetry. Same concept, dear Padrino.

 

[Kings113]

I think two months or so will be fine to get anything down. As in October to November, maybe a bit into December.

 

[whozit]

BUT we do have Bibby, Kevin, Ron, Brad, KT, SAR and Corliss who hopefully have enough accumulated experience to help in the transition. Bottom line is - they are profesisonal and they want to win. They have a new coach who is very hungry to prove himself. This could end up being a team that is able to come together and produce collectively much more than their individual stats would indicate.

This is what I'm hoping for.

 

[Entity]

The Unknowns

Here is my biggest reason to be optimistic. We have alot of unknowns going in that could give us a tremendous upside.

1) Bibby playing lighter and quicker could prove to be very helpful on defense and a running offense in the Muss system.

2) Brad been working with the world team all summer and is going to come back in great shape and a defensive mind from the get go from playing for coack K also benifiting the Muss system.

3) Kevin Martin was leaps and bounds better his 2nd year over his 1st and he proved formidable as a starter last season. He can only get better in his 3rd season. He works hard on both ends and will could be a star in the league under the Muss system.

4) Garcia had an up and down 1st season and seems committed to defense which bodes well in the Muss system. Also if he improves in his 2nd season as much as Martin did then we are in for a treat as Garcia was better his 1st season than Martin was in his first. He was also rated higher than Martin was coming into his rookie season.

5) Sar had a very down season riddled with costly injurys both to his strength and stamina. He can go nowhere but higher than last season.

6) KT is a terrific rebounder and could prove an asset in a running offense.

7) John Salmons could bring much needed insurance at the pg spot as well as the sg spot and is able to play the sf spot if need be. He is athletic as well as another post presence coming from the guard position.

8) Loren Woods being a shot blocking presence could prove to be valuble for 12 to 15 min a game stoping any turnstyles to the lane that may form. He is also able to run the floor well and with his size could raise our bench rebounding tremendously.

9) Quincy Douby is a great scorer and runs the floor well and his defensive mindset gives 1 up on what we had with Bobby Jackson. How quickly he makes this transition could determine how often he is used.

10) Amundson gives us the hustle and rebounding and defense post play that is exactly what the doctor ordered if he makes the team coming off the bench.

11) Williams another shot blocking force that if his transition to this level moves quickly can be a great asset.

12) Ron Artest a proven defender and hustle man that is willing to do what it takes to win and will take the game over if need be. Artest and the Muss system go hand in hand and the sky is the limit here.

Now with all these upsides or unknowns gives nobody any reason to say we won't do this or won't do that. Now it goes both ways. If these upsides or unknowns don't pan out then we may not be that great. but that is the reason why we can't go by the downsides only. Going by the worst case scenerios is not the way to go. some upsides will pan out some won't but how far the upsides go is why i am optimistic.

 

[bajaden]

fact

Because he brings up up the fact, that A) This current roster will have a tough time making the playoffs - B) He Brings up the fact that Bonzi Wells was a big lose and it's gonna hurt them and that's so true. and last but not least he brings up the fact that John Salmons and Loren Woods were signings that won't solve there problem.

I suggest you go look up the word FACT, and while your at it look up the word HYPOTHESIS. One is, in fact, a bird in hand. The other is a hand full of smoke.

 

[bajaden]

clue

1. Will musselman come out and say that the roster sucks as of now and that he would rather be coaching the spurs / mavs or the heat. Can you name one coach who after taking up a coaching spot has critisized the roster that he took over, heck even Larry brown last year was excited with the group of players he had with the knicks. there is nothing wrong with that, it is called being politically right and i wouldnt read too much into that.

2. you might disagree, but the facts are facts and though they are opinionated to some extent you cannot deny certain things. Saying that salmons is an upgrade over Bonzi, though to some extent could be true, it doesnt mean that will happen. the odds are against that.

We all know that when you throw a piece of bread up in the air, it has to fall down. There is a very small possibility that a sea gull can come and grab it midway but the chances are very little, so a fact is always not a fact, there are so many other assumptions that we make and that is what makes it a fact.

To talk about certain facts that VF21 talked about, same thing, we assume that the rest of the parameters stay the same and we conclude that it is a fact, if all goes well then we have 82 games this season. If for some reason there is some unforeseen thing that happens, then all teams may not play 82 games this season. For example, if katrina had hit during the season then maybe there wouldnt have been 82 games last season, the league will try to reorganize those games but we cant be sure.

If we want to argue we can always argue about any fact. Common sense dictates certain facts and replacing bonzi with salmons falls into a similar category.

I have no clue what the hell you just said. Must be my hearing. Right? I think thats a fact. Or maybe just an opinion. God!!! Please spare me....

 

[Bricklayer]

Here is my biggest reason to be optimistic. We have alot of unknowns going in that could give us a tremendous upside.

You do understand do you not that you can play this game with every team in the NBA? When you take the rosiest possible view oif every player and only their positives even the Blazers are world beaters. To whit:

C -- Pryzbilla -- showed his dedication by resigning and ready to take the next step reboudning and shotblocking wise as a team leader
C -- Magliore -- former All-Star center coming into a contract year + will put up big numbers and be the 2nd best center in the West
PF -- Randolph -- a year removed from the surgery now and should get stronger and bounce back to his old All-Star caliber 20-10 form
PF -- Aldridge -- ultra-high lottery pick with tremendous athleticism and upside, could/should be a stud
SF -- Miles -- had his best season last year, and now with all the controversy is poised to silence all the doubters with a huge year living up to his promise
OG -- Roy -- another lottery pick and looked great in summer league, stud OG of the future
PG -- Dickau -- back in his old stomping grounds and ready to duplicate the 12 and 5 he put up starting for the Hornets a couple of years ago.

etc...

Portland is making the playoffs! Book it! Woot!

 

[bajaden]

system

Adjusting to a new system is hard VF21. it's like learning how to do algebra while you're in 1st Grade. it might take sooner for the players to adjust but i can't expect the team to understand what Musselman wants them to do in start of the Season it's called not having experience with that system.

Larry Brown went to Detroit and brought in a new system. It took them so long to learn it, they accidently went an won the world championship. Probably just an accident.

 

[VF21]

You do understand do you not that you can play this game with every team in the NBA? When you take the rosiest possible view oif every player and only their positives even the Blazers are world beaters.

And is there really anything wrong with that from a fan's point of view? It's TDOS. We're all going to be facing reality soon enough. If some want to have hope, why dash it on the rocks in August?

 

[bajaden]

My last word on systems. Were talking about basketball here, not rocket science. There are only so many ways to run a pick and roll or set a pick. All these players know how to play the game. They've played since highschool and some since grade school. Its just a matter of telling them what kind of offense or defense your going to run, and then practicing it.

A smart coach will always adapt his plan to the talent he has and not the other way around. You don't try and play an up tempo game with slow players etc.. Thats what Muss has to figure out in training camp and it won't take that long to do. I'm optimistic, and that is a fact. Maybe falsely, but well see. And that also is a fact. I think the Kings will win 50 games. Now that is an opinion. Everybody clear on that..........

 

[Padrino]

But you're able to break up your poetry. Same concept, dear Padrino.

hahaaa...very good. i actually do that for the benefit of the reader when i get around to typing them on my computer. when i write them down, they're generally done without break.

anyways, in other news, this kings team is, in a word, mediocre. when we shore up our front court/rebounding weaknesses, we might be able to break into the elite again. but as of now, goodrich's article seems like a fair assessment to me. people can debate facts vs. opinions all they want, but at the end of the day, we're talking about a prediction, and predictions are never fact. inherent in a prediction's definition is the idea that you do not know for a fact that something is going to happen, but you have a vague idea, and make an educated guess based on the known quantities in a given situation. i think goodrich fairly assessed the kings as they look right now. we're on the cusp of breaking through into the elite again, but our weaknesses happen to be of the glaring variety that don't help a team contend. the kings have enough youth and veteran leadership to build on, but there's a few pieces missing, and its gonna be difficult to add those pieces without subtracting pieces that are equally valuable. such is the paradox of trying to build a winner...

 

[Bricklayer]

Larry Brown went to Detroit and brought in a new system. It took them so long to learn it, they accidently went an won the world championship. Probably just an accident.

Then Larry Brown went to New York with his *ahem* "system", and we all know how well that went.

Can go either way.

 

[TheJoker]

Then Larry Brown went to New York with his *ahem* "system", and we all know how well that went.

Can go either way.

First of all, New York was already a dump before Larry got there. he was the scapegoat Pistons already were a 1 puzzle away from winning a title and they found one in mid-season ( Rasheed ).

no one can save NY. Isiah is another scapegoat if everything goes wrong.

 

[Entity]

You do understand do you not that you can play this game with every team in the NBA? When you take the rosiest possible view oif every player and only their positives even the Blazers are world beaters. To whit:

C -- Pryzbilla -- showed his dedication by resigning and ready to take the next step reboudning and shotblocking wise as a team leader
C -- Magliore -- former All-Star center coming into a contract year + will put up big numbers and be the 2nd best center in the West
PF -- Randolph -- a year removed from the surgery now and should get stronger and bounce back to his old All-Star caliber 20-10 form
PF -- Aldridge -- ultra-high lottery pick with tremendous athleticism and upside, could/should be a stud
SF -- Miles -- had his best season last year, and now with all the controversy is poised to silence all the doubters with a huge year living up to his promise
OG -- Roy -- another lottery pick and looked great in summer league, stud OG of the future
PG -- Dickau -- back in his old stomping grounds and ready to duplicate the 12 and 5 he put up starting for the Hornets a couple of years ago.

etc...

Portland is making the playoffs! Book it! Woot!

As i blatanlty pointed out at the end of my post. Not all will pan out to the best case scenerio. Some will some won't maybe they all will maybe they all won't. But that is the beauty of it all. WE DON'T KNOW. I don't know we will make the playoffs. You certainly don't know that we will not win the championship. Sure your opinion is we won't based soley on what players have dont in the past. You don't take in the fact that ppl do get better and do change aspect of their game.

I don't know these players personally but, I do know some NFL players that have went from nothing to outstanding over time. It just clicked one day. Jerry Rice was a mediocre college WR that went on to be the best WR of all time. Terrell Owens was awuful in high school went to a small college to be a defensive back and wound up one of the greatest WR in the league today. Thats just it you never know what you get from year to year so it is very closed minded to judge past performances and come right out and say they are going to do the exact same things. That is redundant. There are good and bad parts to every player in the NBA same with jobs, spouses, etc...... If you go into a marrige only looking at the downside of of your spouse guess what you won't be married long. If you look at your spouse for all the good things you will prosper as a family. I just want you to open your mind a little bit Brick and say yes there is tremendous upside to this team and I don't know how far they will go. I have stated I don't know but i choose to focus on all the positives this team brings to my entertainment pleasure. I am not entertained putting them down all the time or i wouldn't watch.

 

[bajaden]

system

Then Larry Brown went to New York with his *ahem* "system", and we all know how well that went.

Can go either way.

Wasn't touting Larry Brown, just the system theory. They don't always work do they? In all fairness to Brown, he really didn't have a chance with the brilliant I.Thomas there. No pity for him though. Any fool could have seen that it was a disaster waiting to happen. Shows what an ego can do for you.

 

[Bricklayer]

And is there really anything wrong with that from a fan's point of view? It's TDOS. We're all going to be facing reality soon enough. If some want to have hope, why dash it on the rocks in August?

Fan does not have to = groupie or sycophant, which is what "everything is great and my team is the best because its my team!!" begins to trend toward.

Merely pointing out the gaping hole in that style of analysis. People have to make up their own minds if they want to employ it anyway. Just as long as they don't employ it and then try to claim it as an objective reality.

 

[Merdiesel]

A Laker...
Nevermind

thank you.

 

[TheJoker]

thank you.

Ahh, let's stop actting like just because Goodrich was a Laker somewhat 30 years ago it makes his comments hateful towards the Kings hes saying the truth deal with it.

 

[VF21]

Fan does not have to = groupie or sycophant, which is what "everything is great and my team is the best because its my team!!" begins to trend toward.

Merely pointing out the gaping hole in that style of analysis. People have to make up their own minds if they want to employ it anyway. Just as long as they don't employ it and then try to claim it as an objective reality.

I understand, but it seems there should be some allowance for people to voice optimism about the team without them being assumed to be "groupies" or "sycophants." It's just my humble observation that the pessimists among us are going out of their way to shoot down the hopes of the optimists at every opportunity. Almost every thread that's started that includes "hope" or "things to be positive about," etc. is attacked as though someone has predicted the Kings sweeping the NBA finals in 4...

I'm simply lobbying for a little more leeway in the middle.

 

[nbrans]

I understand, but it seems there should be some allowance for people to voice optimism about the team without them being assumed to be "groupies" or "sycophants." It's just my humble observation that the pessimists among us are going out of their way to shoot down the hopes of the optimists at every opportunity. Almost every thread that's started that includes "hope" or "things to be positive about," etc. is attacked as though someone has predicted the Kings sweeping the NBA finals in 4...

I'm simply lobbying for a little more leeway in the middle.

I agree completely.

 

[SacTownKid]

Hey, its a good year to be in the lotto anyway!

 

[TheJoker]

Hey, its a good year to be in the lotto anyway!

I would hate to see the Kings tank there season, but if they did it means they really want Oden or Joakim
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