Goodrich: The Kings will be solid but not great

[TheJoker]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Muss's ability to inspire tremendous fire in his Golden State troops during those championship years.

Eric Musselman is in a different situation although i do think it will take some time for him to get going with his squad. but he'll preach something that Adelman never thought about... "DEFENSE".

Well, some might but I sure won't!

Did Jason Hart tell you he'll take Kevin Martin's spot at SG

 

[DaMan]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Muss's ability to inspire tremendous fire in his Golden State troops during those championship years.

The article is pretty much dead on.

We're anywhere from a #5 to a #12, and in a massive dogfight with the Lakers (added Vlad), Clippers (replaced Vlad with Thomas, get Maggette back), the Grizzlies (Swift + the rook replace Wright+Battier) and then a stack of teams who missed the playoffs last year but could be right there: Houston (all it takes is health + already added Battier), Utah (health + very solid top 5), Hornets (improved as much as anybody anybody in the offseason), Minnesota (added Mike James and a good looking rook), and Seattle (like us, finished the season hot and +.500 after the break). Any or all those teams could be at 40 wins+, and until the injuries hit teams there are virtually no easy automatic win type dates in the Western Conference for us.

I think we make it, just based on our history as much as anything. But that does not have to be at all given all the playoff contenders this season, and our "history" is increasingly just that. All of 1 player and no coaches left from our prime years now, and so its all a crapshoot.

Brick, I totally agree i bascily said the same thing in the other tread. I said all those teams expect for Minn which i disagree with.

 

[VF21]

Did Jason Hart tell you he'll take Kevin Martin's spot at SG

Somehow, I don't think Martin is too worried.

 

[Kings113]

Is potato any different then Woods? if Woods is slighty better would it actually make a difference? plus my problem with the John Salmon signing is not because we got him it's because we OVERPAYED for his services.

Basically Salmons is our replacement for Bonzi and i expected much more then that.

Potapenko is an injury prone, old, unathletic, undersized center. Pot's bigger mass-wise and is a banger down low though, and can score a little bit. Not a shotblocker. Woods isn't as strong, but he's longer, more athletic and mobile, taller. Has shown he can be a shotblocker and rebounder. As I've said before, I think he can provide that for us at least to a decent degree.

Potapenko didn't do anything for us, as he was never used by Adelman, and was gotten mostly for financial purposes becuase of his expiring contract. So, the two players aren't really comparable, IMO.

Potapenko is irrelevant to me until sometime in October though.

Totally disagree Salmons is replacing Bonzi.

 

[OldSchoolKing]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Muss's ability to inspire tremendous fire in his Golden State troops during those championship years.

Well Rick sure didn't fire them up so I expect this change to be good. Bibby has even said he likes the fire Muss brings. Hmm, who to listen to..........Bibby or Brick?

 

[OldSchoolKing]

Basically Salmons is our replacement for Bonzi and i expected much more then that.

Martin replaced Bonzi. Salmons is a backup 1/2/3. Hardly a replacement.

 

[DaMan]

Potapenko is an injury prone, old, unathletic, undersized center. Pot's bigger mass-wise and is a banger down low though, and can score a little bit. Not a shotblocker. Woods isn't as strong, but he's longer, more athletic and mobile, taller. Has shown he can be a shotblocker and rebounder.

Potapenko didn't do anything for us, as he was never used by Adelman, and was gotten mostly for financial purposes becuase of his expiring contract. So, the two players aren't really comparable, IMO.

Potapenko is irrelevant to me until sometime in October though.

Totally disagree Salmons is replacing Bonzi.

Really, i don't expect much from salmons or Woods becauses at the end of the season i see us running the same old rotation we did at the end of last season.

 

[OldSchoolKing]

Really, i don't expect much from salmons or Woods becauses at the end of the season i see us running the same old rotation we did at the end of last season.

How can you assume that when there is a totally different coach?

 

[TheJoker]

Somehow, I don't think Martin is too worried.

Somehow i think Jason Hart is in GP's office convincing he deserves to start over Martin

 

[Kings113]

we still have no idea how fast Eric Musselman is gonna adjust to his system and how fast the players adjust to HIS system.



but it's not hard to say that we did infact lose alot of ground and we haven't done much to solve it.

1. Completely disagree. I think most of the players are going to fit into what Musselman wants to do. Just from what I've gathered so far from several articles and interviews in relation to that, and Musselman himself. Also, why would Musselman have to adjust to his own system? It's his system, lol.

2. Also completely disagree we lost a lot of ground from last season. As I stated before, you'll have to wait.

Really, i don't expect much from salmons or Woods becauses at the end of the season i see us running the same old rotation we did at the end of last season.

I disagree and think the rotation will be different.

Martin replaced Bonzi. Salmons is a backup 1/2/3. Hardly a replacement.

Indeed.

 

[Bricklayer]

Eric Musselman is in a different situation although i do think it will take some time for him to get going with his squad. but he'll preach something that Adelman never thought about... "DEFENSE".

Wanna take a bet on which coach had the better defensive teams while Muss was in the league?

Just using Def Efficiency (simply because databasebasketball sorts by that all in one stat and I am lazy this morning) Muss finished 29th and 18th in the league in defense during his two seasons in Golden State. Rick finished 2nd and 21st (yr 2 = the Webb knee year).

We'll see. However I strongly suspect that whatever defense we do apply will have far more to do with Ron than Muss. After Ron arrived Rick coould suddenly coach defense again too. Maloof moronics aside, defensive personnel goes a long way to enabling defensive coaching.

 

[TheJoker]

1. Completely disagree. I think most of the players are going to fit into what Musselman wants to do. Just from what I've gathered so far from several articles and interviews in relation to that, and Musselman himself. Also, why would Musselman have to adjust to his own system? It's his system, lol.

Because Musselman still has to adjust what the team is comfortable with and what rotation he has to use that makes the team better on the floor, thats adjusting his own system to make sure his players adjust to his system

 

[Bricklayer]

How can you assume that when there is a totally different coach?

Talent is talent. Unless Muss is a blithering idiot he is going to recognize many of the same things Rick did, i.e. that his three most talented bigs, by a LOT, are Brad, SAR and Thomas. That Ron has to be out there absolutley as long as you can ride him. That Mike Bibby is miles ahead of the other PGs on the roster (Salmons might close the gap a little, or might not, depending on which guy shows up for us).

The questions will be at OG, where Kevin could be anywhere from a 25 to 35 min guy for us depending on how he does, and with the overall mushiness of our "depth". In some ways perhaps another "opportunity" like Golden State for Muss -- you want a coach to play deep rotations the best bet is always to just not give him enough proven guys to fill those the minutes. Particularly if Kevin does not seize that OG position our "deep rotation" could largely be a season long search for dependable answers.

 

[VF21]

Because Musselman still has to adjust what the team is comfortable with and what rotation he has to use that makes the team better on the floor, thats adjusting his own system to make sure his players adjust to his system

That's one helluva sentence...

 

[DaMan]

How can you assume that when there is a totally different coach?

Like i said i am not high on Woods or Salmons and don't see them playing much. I see Salmons as the next hart and playing as much as he did last season. And really don't see Woods playing some nights if at all.

With all that being said i see sar playing both pf and c, Salmons at point and Gracia playing both swing positions. This resmebles what RA did with Hart, Martin, and Sar.

 

[TheJoker]

Talent is talent. Unless Muss is a blithering idiot he is going to recognize many of the same things Rick did, i.e.

Talent is Talent but the System changes. Musselman will look at his own adjustments more then Adelman's adjustments. sometimes new coaches who arrive are willing to make there new system work and there new rotation...new..concept ...etc

new coaches wanna make sure they can the credit for there adjustments not the adjustments that the previous coach made. it's called having a ego and almost every coach has it.

 

[vladetomiller]

1. Completely disagree. I think most of the players are going to fit into what Musselman wants to do. Just from what I've gathered so far from several articles and interviews in relation to that, and Musselman himself. Also, why would Musselman have to adjust to his own system? It's his system, lol.

2. Also completely disagree we lost a lot of ground from last season. As I stated before, you'll have to wait.

I disagree and think the rotation will be different.

Indeed.

1. Will musselman come out and say that the roster sucks as of now and that he would rather be coaching the spurs / mavs or the heat. Can you name one coach who after taking up a coaching spot has critisized the roster that he took over, heck even Larry brown last year was excited with the group of players he had with the knicks. there is nothing wrong with that, it is called being politically right and i wouldnt read too much into that.

2. you might disagree, but the facts are facts and though they are opinionated to some extent you cannot deny certain things. Saying that salmons is an upgrade over Bonzi, though to some extent could be true, it doesnt mean that will happen. the odds are against that.

We all know that when you throw a piece of bread up in the air, it has to fall down. There is a very small possibility that a sea gull can come and grab it midway but the chances are very little, so a fact is always not a fact, there are so many other assumptions that we make and that is what makes it a fact.

To talk about certain facts that VF21 talked about, same thing, we assume that the rest of the parameters stay the same and we conclude that it is a fact, if all goes well then we have 82 games this season. If for some reason there is some unforeseen thing that happens, then all teams may not play 82 games this season. For example, if katrina had hit during the season then maybe there wouldnt have been 82 games last season, the league will try to reorganize those games but we cant be sure.

If we want to argue we can always argue about any fact. Common sense dictates certain facts and replacing bonzi with salmons falls into a similar category.

 

[Kings113]

Because Musselman still has to adjust what the team is comfortable with and what rotation he has to use that makes the team better on the floor, thats adjusting his own system to make sure his players adjust to his system

Oh, well that's different then. As that is more clear and specific.

Like I said before, and from what I've come to (from various articles and interviews), I think the roster fits with Musselman. I also don't think he'll have difficulty finding a rotation, because of the roster suiting Muss. He's going to go 8 or 9 deep usually.

A suggestion, improve your punctuation.

 

[Kings113]

1. Will musselman come out and say that the roster sucks as of now and that he would rather be coaching the spurs / mavs or the heat. Can you name one coach who after taking up a coaching spot has critisized the roster that he took over, heck even Larry brown last year was excited with the group of players he had with the knicks. there is nothing wrong with that, it is called being politically right and i wouldnt read too much into that.

2. you might disagree, but the facts are facts and though they are opinionated to some extent you cannot deny certain things. Saying that salmons is an upgrade over Bonzi, though to some extent could be true, it doesnt mean that will happen. the odds are against that.

*snip*

If we want to argue we can always argue about any fact. Common sense dictates certain facts and replacing bonzi with salmons falls into a similar category.

Well, I have made it clear how I feel in my previous post, and in other threads. All this "facts" stuff doesn't matter to me because I'm not putting my opinion out there as fact, or claiming.

I never said Salmons is an upgrade over Bonzi. Nor did the person I quoted. *shrug*

 

[VF21]

2. you might disagree, but the facts are facts and though they are opinionated to some extent you cannot deny certain things. Saying that salmons is an upgrade over Bonzi, though to some extent could be true, it doesnt mean that will happen. the odds are against that.

Yes, facts are facts and there are basically NONE in Goodrich's piece. They're opinions. And I don't recall anyone saying Salmons is an upgrade over Bonzi. Could you quote that part, please?

 

[TheJoker]

Like I said before, I think the roster fits with Musselman.

It can can/or not but we just don't know how fast the players adjust to his system and what the players reaction will be playing under a new system.

it might take until the 2nd half of the season to see us going like this past year.

 

[Kings113]

It can can/or not but we just don't know how fast the players adjust to his system and what the players reaction will be playing under a new system..

Of course we don't know. But, once again, from all that I've gathered which is relevant to Musselman and the players, I think the roster does go with what Musselman wants to orchistrate to the team.

 

[VF21]

It can can/or not but we just don't know how fast the players adjust to his system and what the players reaction will be playing under a new system.

it might take until the 2nd half of the season to see us going like this past year.

You do realize they're already talking to each other and there is going to be a training camp, right? Followed by a pre-season?

These guys are professionals. It's not going to take either the players or the new coaches half a season to adjust to each other. This is basketball, not ballroom dancing.

 

[TheJoker]

1. Of course we don't know, but from all that I've gathered that is relevant to Musselman and the players, I think the roster does.

The roster always has to expect the best outcome but when you're on the floor it changes. i think Musselman will end up having a better approach on Defense which is why we got him in the first place. but it takes a while for the players to get going with a new system.

 

[TheJoker]

You do realize they're already talking to each other and there is going to be a training camp, right? Followed by a pre-season?

These guys are professionals. It's not going to take either the players or the new coaches half a season to adjust to each other. This is basketball, not ballroom dancing.

Adjusting to a new system is hard VF21. it's like learning how to do algebra while you're in 1st Grade. it might take sooner for the players to adjust but i can't expect the team to understand what Musselman wants them to do in start of the Season it's called not having experience with that system.

 

[Kings113]

The roster always has to expect the best outcome but when you're on the floor it changes.

i think Musselman will end up having a better approach on Defense which is why we got him in the first place. but it takes a while for the players to get going with a new system.

1. Well, I've already said how I feel about the roster in relation to Musselman and vice versa

2. Yeah, of course it'll take some time. But I don't think it'll be awhile.

 

[vladetomiller]

Typically we have seen teams taking atleast half a season to understand the system, offense and defense is somewhat like ball room dancing and in fact is tougher than that. You need all 5 players (along with the bench) to be in sync, know where they are supposed to be in offense and have to read the defense to adjust accordingly.

It is a lot more tougher on defense where you have to read and react to the other team all the time and to be effective in any new system we have seen teams taking half a season atleast to be comfortable in it.

 

[TheJoker]

1. Well, I've already said how I feel about the roster in relation Musselman and vice versa

2. Yeah, of course it'll take some time. But I don't think it'll be awhile.

At the early part it will take 1-2 months for the team to understand what Musselman wants them to do. we just have to stay above the 500 mark by the 2nd half of the season then build something from there.

it will be hard for us to get 50 wins. best case scenario is 46 wins worst case scenario is 43 wins which puts us out of the playoffs.

 

[VF21]

Adjusting to a new system is hard VF21. it's like learning how to do algebra while you're in 1st Grade. it might take sooner for the players to adjust but i can't expect the team to understand what Musselman wants them to do in start of the Season it's called not having experience with that system.

First, you're assuming this NEW SYSTEM - as some people emphasize it - is going to be so radical and unusual that no one will recognize it. I simply don't agree. It's not like Musselman is going to be asking them to shoot backwards or play on their hands.

You don't expect the team to understand what Musselman wants them to do? Why not? New players do it all the time.

People are acting as though all our players are so ingrained with the "Adelman system" that they'll be standing there like dummies, unable to move or figure out what they're supposed to do next, etc.

For the most part, our players didn't get that much exposure to Adelman's system (if you're going to insist he relied on one particular system, which he didn't) anyway, so unteaching them all those bad habits isn't going to be that difficult.

I'm not going to buy into all this hand-wringing about how hard it's going to be for a bunch of guys who are being paid millions of dollars a year to play a game most of them have played since high school or earlier to adapt to a new coach.

 

[Kings113]

At the early part it will take 1-2 months for the team to understand what Musselman wants them to do. we just have to stay above the 500 mark by the 2nd half of the season then build something from there.

it will be hard for us to get 50 wins. best case scenario is 46 wins worst case scenario is 43 wins which puts us out of the playoffs.

1. We're done there.

2. Just about done here, too. As discussed recently, I think we'll be noticably better than last season. Totally disagree on both sentences.