See what I mean about poor communication? I've always been a pass-first player and you know what's frustrating to me? When I drive the ball knowing that the defense is going to rotate and nobody on my team moves to where they can easily receive a pass. It works two ways. The guy with the ball has to recognize that the defense is rotating and the guy who is now open has to realize that the ball only travels in a straight line and they have to move a step or two to create a passing lane. It drives me crazy when people just assume my goal is to score the ball and so they think they can just take the play off. That forces me to take a bad shot because the alternative is a turnover. If you manage to get everyone on the same page, you don't have problems like this. As a pass-first player I'm just trying to point out that the guy handling the ball is usually the scapegoat when the offense isn't working but it's usually mis-communication which is the real problem. And just because I took a bad shot in that situation doesn't mean that was my intention or that I wasn't looking for anyone else on my team. Watch some more tape of Steve Nash and Jason Kidd. You're going to see a lot of players moving without the ball to help create a lot of those passes.
Well that is one way to spin the story. Lets call it the MSNBC version. The FOX News version might go like this:These guys have had 2 months and the best they could do is create cap space that no FA wants. I guess you can call Vasquez a potential star in that like 90% of the players in the league he is not a star. They traded the former ROY, and 2ndbest player for the guy that leads the league in turnovers. But hey at least the Kings aren't in Seattle.
Very true and how quickly the honeymoon of the "renewed vows" has ended.
It does seem as if Vivek and Co. are being a little rushed on fixing all of the failures of the past regime and not being given much time to do so. Obviously I think the average Kings Fans wants this team "fixed" very quickly and they don't want to hear about patience or how these things take time.
The thing that bugs me though is that the same fans demanding that they want the team fixed now are also the same ones complaining once the first major change was made.
They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Doesn't coming back with essentially the same roster (plus McElmore) next year essentially equate to insanity?
Changing coaches and changing owners isn't suddenly going to win you 20 more games the next season and put this team on the cusp of a playoff berth. Coaches matter but they don't matter that much. Ultimately it comes down to talent and if Tyreke was as much of a "star" and as talented as people think he is, he would have overcome his so-called dumb coaches and led his team to more than 30 wins by now. The players determine the outcome of the games more than the coaches do.
It does seem as if Vivek and Co. are being a little rushed on fixing all of the failures of the past regime and not being given much time to do so. Obviously I think the average Kings Fans wants this team "fixed" very quickly and they don't want to hear about patience or how these things take time.
The thing that bugs me though is that the same fans demanding that they want the team fixed now are also the same ones complaining once the first major change was made.
They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Doesn't coming back with essentially the same roster (plus McElmore) next year essentially equate to insanity?
Changing coaches and changing owners isn't suddenly going to win you 20 more games the next season and put this team on the cusp of a playoff berth. Coaches matter but they don't matter that much. Ultimately it comes down to talent and if Tyreke was as much of a "star" and as talented as people think he is, he would have overcome his so-called dumb coaches and led his team to more than 30 wins by now. The players determine the outcome of the games more than the coaches do.
lol Do you even hear yourself? I bolded the problems with your argument. 2 months(really less than that), created cap space, 2nd best player(on a 28 win team mind you), and the Kings aren't in Seattle. Like I said you guys should be grateful we still have a team. This group spent like 350 million total(on a 535 mill valuation) plus decided to build a new arena. That's their investment, not yours. Vivek and co decided to hire Pete. Its safe to assume they're informed of what's going on and their decision making goes hand in hand. They have earned the right to make their own decisions. If you don't want to agree with them you don't have to, but tearing these guys apart before this team has even played a game is lame.
This is what you're not understanding: I don't expect him to work miracles and make us a championship contender overnight. I haven't ever said anything of the kind. But I do expect him to make moves which improve the team rather than making it worse and I think this first move makes us worse. We lost a core player and brought in a different core player who can't play defense. Notice my signature? That's been there for probably 5 or 6 years and only then because I got tired of saying it in every other post before that. I like Tyreke so much precisely because he gave us an opportunity to be a dominant defensive team in the backcourt. The guy we just brought in that Pete claims has made us better does not give us that same opportunity, in fact very much the opposite. That's what I'm upset about. And never once have I said that we should bring the same team back. My preference is to trade everyone except Cousins, Evans, and McLemore. I've said this already, over and over. That gives us our number 1, number 2, and number 3 offensive option which is all a good team really needs. The next part after that is the easy part -- find defensive roleplayers and guys who can play limited minutes and hit set shots. Now we need to find a new #2 option which is almost impossible unless you're picking in the top 5 of the lottery or you play in a market that star players want to come to, and we have to somehow cover up for the spearhead of our defense being a complete seive. These are huge problems. We fixed one issue, passing, and in turn created two much bigger ones. If your goal is to continue to be one of the worst 5 teams in the league then I guess Tyreke is easily replaceable. I will admit that I had hoped for more than that from this crew.
Couldn't agree more. I can understand people being dissatisfied with not resigning Evans but it is a leginate alternative that the new GM chose. I.like what he done and tried to do so far. You all have been heard on thus subject - thousands of posts in two days. Let's move on and watch as our GM continues his work to field a decent team by 11-1-2013.
Yes, a season or two would probably be reasonable. Waiting at least for the free agency moratorium to end would be rational.
Lets just pretend our timeline moves like the warriors new leadership. Bad first year, but molding a team in their vision that reaches playoffs in year 2. Adds key free agent in year 3....end result unknown. Warriors fans looked like idiots for their behavior toward their new leadership after trading Ellis. Should we do the same?
Lets just pretend our timeline moves like the warriors new leadership. Bad first year, but molding a team in their vision that reaches playoffs in year 2. Adds key free agent in year 3....end result unknown. Warriors fans looked like idiots for their behavior toward their new leadership after trading Ellis. Should we do the same?
I'm not going to try and figure out what they're doing for a while. Sometime after summer league ends but before training camp starts? I'll be honest, too. I don't know at what point I'll think I have enough information to make at least a preliminary assessment of what's gone on so far. I can't recall being in this situation before. I was one of those who trusted in Geoff Petrie. Having to figure out a new GM's philosophy along with the vision of the new ownership is a conundrum.
i'm going to give them the opportunity to get their ship away from the dock, though, before I consider it lost at sea with all hands aboard.
i'm going to give them the opportunity to get their ship away from the dock, though, before I consider it lost at sea with all hands aboard.
They were already one of the worst teams in the league with Evans. In the NBA you are who your best players are. Role-players only moderately enhance the win/loss record of a team. They don't make a bad team good and they can't turn a good team bad. That's why they are called role-players. You assimilate role players once you have the proper "star" players and team leaders in place. A team that keeps winning 20 something games every year clearly doesn't have it's star players or leaders fully in place. The NBA is a star-driven league and the success/failure rate of teams ultimately comes down to the contributions of their Top 2 or 3 players.
As Grant Napear has said on his show many times, if Tyreke Evans is your first or second best player then you don't have a very good team and you are not going to the playoffs. He is a good player that can help a team but if he's one of your focal points you aren't going to win many games. Now some would say that drafting McElmore allows Evans to be the Kings 3rd best player (a role he is probably more suited for) but does anybody really think that Ben McElmore is going to thrive as the 2nd option ahead of Tyreke Evans a more experienced player that demands the ball and essentially plays the same position? Not going to happen and that is why the front office let Tyreke Walk away. They are gambling that Cousins will become a true #1 and that McLemore will become a true #2 with Evans now out of the way. Evans is never going to accept being a role-player (at least on this team) and he hasn't shown to be good enough to be a true #1 or #2 option.....as a result he had to go. That still means the front office is gambling on Cousins and McLemore but getting rid of Evans allows them the opportunity to roll those dice.
As Grant Napear has said on his show many times, if Tyreke Evans is your first or second best player then you don't have a very good team and you are not going to the playoffs. He is a good player that can help a team but if he's one of your focal points you aren't going to win many games. Now some would say that drafting McElmore allows Evans to be the Kings 3rd best player (a role he is probably more suited for) but does anybody really think that Ben McElmore is going to thrive as the 2nd option ahead of Tyreke Evans a more experienced player that demands the ball and essentially plays the same position? Not going to happen and that is why the front office let Tyreke Walk away. They are gambling that Cousins will become a true #1 and that McLemore will become a true #2 with Evans now out of the way. Evans is never going to accept being a role-player (at least on this team) and he hasn't shown to be good enough to be a true #1 or #2 option.....as a result he had to go. That still means the front office is gambling on Cousins and McLemore but getting rid of Evans allows them the opportunity to roll those dice.
Two things in response to this:
(1) Ellis was a scoring black hole who doesn't play defense, hardly a devastating loss though he was their best player at the time, and Bogut is an always injured center who does play defense when he's healthy. Talentwise they won that trade, but the fans were upset that the team was tanking the season by trading their best player for a guy who wouldn't even play that season. It got them Barnes and the team improved enough to make the playoffs the next year. Good for them, but they could have easily blown the pick and had nothing to show for it as Bogut continues to sit more games out then he actually plays.
(2) It's easy for two guys who've had no affiliation with this franchise before to come in and say we need to be patient and build slowly through the draft but those of us who've been here have seen the results of building through the draft for 7 years, and they're not good. We've had two guys in that entire span come in and give us hope of one day getting better and one of them is now gone. At this rate we'll be a playoff team again by 2020. We just went through the possible extinction of this team, this website, this fanbase so yes I'm forever grateful to Vivek for everything he's done. But to go through all of that only to basically head to the back of the line again and wait our turn at lottery gold is incredibly frustrating. I don't think my reasons for disliking this deal are irrational. My distaste for tanking another season probably is, it's the most cost-effective way to build a long-term winner, but come on. I can't be the only one who's sick of 7 years of endless lottery hell and the best pick we've ever had has been #4 overall. The guy we just gave away. If you've got visions of Andrew Wiggins or equivalent coming in and filling the void we just created, good for you. My capacity for that kind of hope has been exhausted by now. I loved the McLemore pick because I thought he was going to be a great compliment to the two stars we already had. Counting on him to be a star himself before he's played one game in the NBA? I sure hope so, but you have to understand that it's a long-shot.
(1) Ellis was a scoring black hole who doesn't play defense, hardly a devastating loss though he was their best player at the time, and Bogut is an always injured center who does play defense when he's healthy. Talentwise they won that trade, but the fans were upset that the team was tanking the season by trading their best player for a guy who wouldn't even play that season. It got them Barnes and the team improved enough to make the playoffs the next year. Good for them, but they could have easily blown the pick and had nothing to show for it as Bogut continues to sit more games out then he actually plays.
(2) It's easy for two guys who've had no affiliation with this franchise before to come in and say we need to be patient and build slowly through the draft but those of us who've been here have seen the results of building through the draft for 7 years, and they're not good. We've had two guys in that entire span come in and give us hope of one day getting better and one of them is now gone. At this rate we'll be a playoff team again by 2020. We just went through the possible extinction of this team, this website, this fanbase so yes I'm forever grateful to Vivek for everything he's done. But to go through all of that only to basically head to the back of the line again and wait our turn at lottery gold is incredibly frustrating. I don't think my reasons for disliking this deal are irrational. My distaste for tanking another season probably is, it's the most cost-effective way to build a long-term winner, but come on. I can't be the only one who's sick of 7 years of endless lottery hell and the best pick we've ever had has been #4 overall. The guy we just gave away. If you've got visions of Andrew Wiggins or equivalent coming in and filling the void we just created, good for you. My capacity for that kind of hope has been exhausted by now. I loved the McLemore pick because I thought he was going to be a great compliment to the two stars we already had. Counting on him to be a star himself before he's played one game in the NBA? I sure hope so, but you have to understand that it's a long-shot.
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If you look at my posts I think you will find that I have intentionally NOT been critical of the the new management, rather I have said over and over that I will reserve judgement until the season has unfolded. I have however had questions about the individual moves being made thus far. I have NOT "torn down" anyone, and in fact have tried hard to share each perspective BEFORE making decisions. That WAS the point of my response to you, that in EVERY situation the facts can be spun to present a particular viewpoint (often per-determined) If you want to pure facts then leave the conclusions out of it.
I hear you. Not trying to say its equivalent circumstances, but there was a similar hysteria (living in the Bay Area at the time, I saw it all first hand). The point was that the new owners had a clear plan. Part of that plan was to identify curry as the key and opening the door for him to succeed; however even bigger was changing the culture.
Its hard to look at each move in isolation, 2 or 3 weeks in, without waiting to see how the plan unfolds. Reading into the meaning of each sound bite or each transaction will drive a person nuts. Are people really concerned that our GM wants to see a SF that can shoot the 3? Passing and shooting are now bad things? How do those traits suggest we are not attempting to improve our D? People are seriously over analyzing all of this.
Its hard to look at each move in isolation, 2 or 3 weeks in, without waiting to see how the plan unfolds. Reading into the meaning of each sound bite or each transaction will drive a person nuts. Are people really concerned that our GM wants to see a SF that can shoot the 3? Passing and shooting are now bad things? How do those traits suggest we are not attempting to improve our D? People are seriously over analyzing all of this.
I have seen nothing to suggest they are planning on tanking this next year. Vivek did indicate (i believe in an early press conference) that there was no immediate pressure on malone to win right away. Seems a reasonable expectation given where we have been. Are they looking to put their stamp on this team? Of course. As someone that has been right there with you over the past 7 years, I can't fathom they would look at this situation any other way.
It's so fustrating to watch Tyreke walk away for so little. The true rebuild for small market teams is a few years of high lottery picks, hitting on a few of them, and then building the team around those young players. We will likely never attract a franchise changing FA. Letting a player like Tyreke leave is how bad teams stay bad. I just hope the new FO made the right decision.
I'm concerned over the vision PDA had been discussing. We first heard Malone talk about defense first and maximizing our talents. PDA has since pushed exciting basketball. Shooting. Passing. And with the exception of iggy, every move and public interest has been along those lines instead of the defensive philosophy earlier.
For all the griping here about Evans and ball movement, nothing disgusted me more watching this team than its defense. Malone may say that you don't have to be a good defender to defend which may be true but focusing your rebuild acquisitions strictly around passing and shooting isn't going to correct the most obvious problem which impacts our ability to get easy baskets, something where Vasquez brings a lot of value. If you can't get stops you end up playing a log of half court ball where Iso scorers can be extremely useful.
So I am concerned as much with the philosophy being sharec as the moves made or discussed.
For all the griping here about Evans and ball movement, nothing disgusted me more watching this team than its defense. Malone may say that you don't have to be a good defender to defend which may be true but focusing your rebuild acquisitions strictly around passing and shooting isn't going to correct the most obvious problem which impacts our ability to get easy baskets, something where Vasquez brings a lot of value. If you can't get stops you end up playing a log of half court ball where Iso scorers can be extremely useful.
So I am concerned as much with the philosophy being sharec as the moves made or discussed.
