Darth Divac
Bench
I'd rather have a team making questionable trades than no team at all.
Funny makes me wonder if you've picked up a basketball too or if you do are you "that guy" who turns into a black-hole when he has the ball in his hands. Guys that don't want to pass the ball wonder why their teammates stand around but it often never occurs to them why they are standing around. It's a two way street and it depends on your perspective. Shooters and slashers only move without the ball if they think there is a good chance they are going to get rewarded.
Were Jason Kidd and Steve Nash just lucky that whatever team's they played on, the guys didn't stand around and tried to get open? Unlikely. What is more likely is that those guys were gifted passers that not only saw the open-man but were more than happy to get the assist instead of their own shot. As a result their teammates put a lot more effort into getting open. Funny how that works.....
I've played a lot of pickup basketball ball too and I can tell you this when I've had the unfortunate experiences of playing on the same team as guys that think they are Tyreke or Iverson or Carmelo........I did a lot of standing around too. It's not worth the energy to look busy when the ball ain't coming your way even when you are open.
I'm all in with Pete! Been a fan since Brooke Steppe signed my program in 1986.....
Pete has made a conscious decision to build this team around DMC. Which, In my opinion takes a large set of brass balls. DMC without a doubt can be a Moses Maloneish type of star. He could also go Isaiah Rider on all of us.
I love the fact that Pete is hitching his wagon to DMC...good or bad it makes for a wild ride!
As am I, but there's already evidence PDA and Malone share different philosophies which might be quite a problem. Malone preached defense, defense and more defense. He wanted Reke. PDA decided we didn't need Reke and has instead gone after Calderon/Vasquez. Malone preaches defense, PDA preaches passing/shooting.
Becoming Den part II does not appear to coincide with Malone's philosophy but appears to be where we're heading.
And we don't need a shooter/passer/defender at SF anymore. That's what we needed with a Reke/MLM backcourt. Now, with Vasquez/MLM we need a SF who get his own off the bounce and create. As much as I was against going after this guy until 24 hours ago, we need Rudy Gay. We need that type. A role playing SF no longer works, yet that appears what PDA wants.
Well that is one way to spin the story. Lets call it the MSNBC version. The FOX News version might go like this:These guys have had 2 months and the best they could do is create cap space that no FA wants. I guess you can call Vasquez a potential star in that like 90% of the players in the league he is not a star. They traded the former ROY, and 2ndbest player for the guy that leads the league in turnovers. But hey at least the Kings aren't in Seattle.These guys have been here for less than a month, have cap space, drafted a potential star, and are 5 days in to free agency. But everyone is already tearing them apart because they let the 2nd best player on a 28 win team go for a PG who averages 9 assists per game? Give me a break. Tyreke was talented but he was not god and he was not the great defender he's made out to be. His defense was decent and his offense was good at driving to the basket and not much else. Give the new regime some time, they come from successful backgrounds. You all should just be grateful we even have a team right now.
...and pilloried and drawn and quartered if the team doesn't turn around as quickly as some believe it should.
I'd rather have a team making questionable trades than no team at all.
Well that is one way to spin the story. Lets call it the MSNBC version. The FOX News version might go like this:These guys have had 2 months and the best they could do is create cap space that no FA wants. I guess you can call Vasquez a potential star in that like 90% of the players in the league he is not a star. They traded the former ROY, and 2ndbest player for the guy that leads the league in turnovers. But hey at least the Kings aren't in Seattle.
lol Do you even hear yourself? I bolded the problems with your argument. 2 months(really less than that), created cap space, 2nd best player(on a 28 win team mind you), and the Kings aren't in Seattle. Like I said you guys should be grateful we still have a team. This group spent like 350 million total(on a 535 mill valuation) plus decided to build a new arena. That's their investment, not yours. Vivek and co decided to hire Pete. Its safe to assume they're informed of what's going on and their decision making goes hand in hand. They have earned the right to make their own decisions. If you don't want to agree with them you don't have to, but tearing these guys apart before this team has even played a game is lame.
Very true and how quickly the honeymoon of the "renewed vows" has ended.
It does seem as if Vivek and Co. are being a little rushed on fixing all of the failures of the past regime and not being given much time to do so. Obviously I think the average Kings Fans wants this team "fixed" very quickly and they don't want to hear about patience or how these things take time.
The thing that bugs me though is that the same fans demanding that they want the team fixed now are also the same ones complaining once the first major change was made.
They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Doesn't coming back with essentially the same roster (plus McElmore) next year essentially equate to insanity?
Changing coaches and changing owners isn't suddenly going to win you 20 more games the next season and put this team on the cusp of a playoff berth. Coaches matter but they don't matter that much. Ultimately it comes down to talent and if Tyreke was as much of a "star" and as talented as people think he is, he would have overcome his so-called dumb coaches and led his team to more than 30 wins by now. The players determine the outcome of the games more than the coaches do.
This is what you're not understanding: I don't expect him to work miracles and make us a championship contender overnight. I haven't ever said anything of the kind. But I do expect him to make moves which improve the team rather than making it worse and I think this first move makes us worse. We lost a core player and brought in a different core player who can't play defense. Notice my signature? That's been there for probably 5 or 6 years and only then because I got tired of saying it in every other post before that. I like Tyreke so much precisely because he gave us an opportunity to be a dominant defensive team in the backcourt. The guy we just brought in that Pete claims has made us better does not give us that same opportunity, in fact very much the opposite. That's what I'm upset about. And never once have I said that we should bring the same team back. My preference is to trade everyone except Cousins, Evans, and McLemore. I've said this already, over and over. That gives us our number 1, number 2, and number 3 offensive option which is all a good team really needs. The next part after that is the easy part -- find defensive roleplayers and guys who can play limited minutes and hit set shots. Now we need to find a new #2 option which is almost impossible unless you're picking in the top 5 of the lottery or you play in a market that star players want to come to, and we have to somehow cover up for the spearhead of our defense being a complete seive. These are huge problems. We fixed one issue, passing, and in turn created two much bigger ones. If your goal is to continue to be one of the worst 5 teams in the league then I guess Tyreke is easily replaceable. I will admit that I had hoped for more than that from this crew.
Couldn't agree more. I can understand people being dissatisfied with not resigning Evans but it is a leginate alternative that the new GM chose. I.like what he done and tried to do so far. You all have been heard on thus subject - thousands of posts in two days. Let's move on and watch as our GM continues his work to field a decent team by 11-1-2013.lol Do you even hear yourself? I bolded the problems with your argument. 2 months(really less than that), created cap space, 2nd best player(on a 28 win team mind you), and the Kings aren't in Seattle. Like I said you guys should be grateful we still have a team. This group spent like 350 million total(on a 535 mill valuation) plus decided to build a new arena. That's their investment, not yours. Vivek and co decided to hire Pete. Its safe to assume they're informed of what's going on and their decision making goes hand in hand. They have earned the right to make their own decisions. If you don't want to agree with them you don't have to, but tearing these guys apart before this team has even played a game is lame.
I used to ask this with Petrie. You believe we should wait to judge PDA instead of evaluating each move on its own merits. So when do you think it's fair to evaluate the front office. At the end of the offseason? Trade deadline. A full season or two? I'm honestly asking.
I used to ask this with Petrie. You believe we should wait to judge PDA instead of evaluating each move on its own merits. So when do you think it's fair to evaluate the front office. At the end of the offseason? Trade deadline. A full season or two? I'm honestly asking.
This is what you're not understanding: I don't expect him to work miracles and make us a championship contender overnight. I haven't ever said anything of the kind. But I do expect him to make moves which improve the team rather than making it worse and I think this first move makes us worse. We lost a core player and brought in a different core player who can't play defense. Notice my signature? That's been there for probably 5 or 6 years and only then because I got tired of saying it in every other post before that. I like Tyreke so much precisely because he gave us an opportunity to be a dominant defensive team in the backcourt. The guy we just brought in that Pete claims has made us better does not give us that same opportunity, in fact very much the opposite. That's what I'm upset about. And never once have I said that we should bring the same team back. My preference is to trade everyone except Cousins, Evans, and McLemore. I've said this already, over and over. That gives us our number 1, number 2, and number 3 offensive option which is all a good team really needs. The next part after that is the easy part -- find defensive roleplayers and guys who can play limited minutes and hit set shots. Now we need to find a new #2 option which is almost impossible unless you're picking in the top 5 of the lottery or you play in a market that star players want to come to, and we have to somehow cover up for the spearhead of our defense being a complete seive. These are huge problems. We fixed one issue, passing, and in turn created two much bigger ones. If your goal is to continue to be one of the worst 5 teams in the league then I guess Tyreke is easily replaceable. I will admit that I had hoped for more than that from this crew.
Yes, a season or two would probably be reasonable. Waiting at least for the free agency moratorium to end would be rational.
Lets just pretend our timeline moves like the warriors new leadership. Bad first year, but molding a team in their vision that reaches playoffs in year 2. Adds key free agent in year 3....end result unknown. Warriors fans looked like idiots for their behavior toward their new leadership after trading Ellis. Should we do the same?
I'm not going to try and figure out what they're doing for a while. Sometime after summer league ends but before training camp starts? I'll be honest, too. I don't know at what point I'll think I have enough information to make at least a preliminary assessment of what's gone on so far. I can't recall being in this situation before. I was one of those who trusted in Geoff Petrie. Having to figure out a new GM's philosophy along with the vision of the new ownership is a conundrum.
i'm going to give them the opportunity to get their ship away from the dock, though, before I consider it lost at sea with all hands aboard.
Yes, a season or two would probably be reasonable. Waiting at least for the free agency moratorium to end would be rational.
Lets just pretend our timeline moves like the warriors new leadership. Bad first year, but molding a team in their vision that reaches playoffs in year 2. Adds key free agent in year 3....end result unknown. Warriors fans looked like idiots for their behavior toward their new leadership after trading Ellis. Should we do the same?
If you look at my posts I think you will find that I have intentionally NOT been critical of the the new management, rather I have said over and over that I will reserve judgement until the season has unfolded. I have however had questions about the individual moves being made thus far. I have NOT "torn down" anyone, and in fact have tried hard to share each perspective BEFORE making decisions. That WAS the point of my response to you, that in EVERY situation the facts can be spun to present a particular viewpoint (often per-determined) If you want to pure facts then leave the conclusions out of it.lol Do you even hear yourself? I bolded the problems with your argument. 2 months(really less than that), created cap space, 2nd best player(on a 28 win team mind you), and the Kings aren't in Seattle. Like I said you guys should be grateful we still have a team. This group spent like 350 million total(on a 535 mill valuation) plus decided to build a new arena. That's their investment, not yours. Vivek and co decided to hire Pete. Its safe to assume they're informed of what's going on and their decision making goes hand in hand. They have earned the right to make their own decisions. If you don't want to agree with them you don't have to, but tearing these guys apart before this team has even played a game is lame.
If it is Wright....
Vasquez
McLemore
Wright
Patterson
Cousins
Lots of shooters, an very good pass first point guard and probably the most dominant low post scorer in the league. This lineup is better than most people think.
Question for you all:
Better back court defense with IT/Reke on a team coached by Smart or Vasquez/McLemore on a team coached by Malone?
I take the latter all day long. We haven't lost much, if any, defensively since the new regime took over. Net gain when you factor the Coach.
Question for you all:
Better back court defense with IT/Reke on a team coached by Smart or Vasquez/McLemore on a team coached by Malone?
I take the latter all day long. We haven't lost much, if any, defensively since the new regime took over. Net gain when you factor the Coach.
If you look at my posts I think you will find that I have intentionally NOT been critical of the the new management, rather I have said over and over that I will reserve judgement until the season has unfolded. I have however had questions about the individual moves being made thus far. I have NOT "torn down" anyone, and in fact have tried hard to share each perspective BEFORE making decisions. That WAS the point of my response to you, that in EVERY situation the facts can be spun to present a particular viewpoint (often per-determined) If you want to pure facts then leave the conclusions out of it.
I think we're overblowing the monta thing. Yes fans booed the decision and many complained but it was partly due to the fact that bogut was injured and a lot of fans appreciated the trade.
But I appreciate the answer.
Two things in response to this:
(1) Ellis was a scoring black hole who doesn't play defense, hardly a devastating loss though he was their best player at the time, and Bogut is an always injured center who does play defense when he's healthy. Talentwise they won that trade, but the fans were upset that the team was tanking the season by trading their best player for a guy who wouldn't even play that season. It got them Barnes and the team improved enough to make the playoffs the next year. Good for them, but they could have easily blown the pick and had nothing to show for it as Bogut continues to sit more games out then he actually plays.
(2) It's easy for two guys who've had no affiliation with this franchise before to come in and say we need to be patient and build slowly through the draft but those of us who've been here have seen the results of building through the draft for 7 years, and they're not good. We've had two guys in that entire span come in and give us hope of one day getting better and one of them is now gone. At this rate we'll be a playoff team again by 2020. We just went through the possible extinction of this team, this website, this fanbase so yes I'm forever grateful to Vivek for everything he's done. But to go through all of that only to basically head to the back of the line again and wait our turn at lottery gold is incredibly frustrating. I don't think my reasons for disliking this deal are irrational. My distaste for tanking another season probably is, it's the most cost-effective way to build a long-term winner, but come on. I can't be the only one who's sick of 7 years of endless lottery hell and the best pick we've ever had has been #4 overall. The guy we just gave away. If you've got visions of Andrew Wiggins or equivalent coming in and filling the void we just created, good for you. My capacity for that kind of hope has been exhausted by now. I loved the McLemore pick because I thought he was going to be a great compliment to the two stars we already had. Counting on him to be a star himself before he's played one game in the NBA? I sure hope so, but you have to understand that it's a long-shot.
I hear you. Not trying to say its equivalent circumstances, but there was a similar hysteria (living in the Bay Area at the time, I saw it all first hand). The point was that the new owners had a clear plan. Part of that plan was to identify curry as the key and opening the door for him to succeed; however even bigger was changing the culture.
Its hard to look at each move in isolation, 2 or 3 weeks in, without waiting to see how the plan unfolds. Reading into the meaning of each sound bite or each transaction will drive a person nuts. Are people really concerned that our GM wants to see a SF that can shoot the 3? Passing and shooting are now bad things? How do those traits suggest we are not attempting to improve our D? People are seriously over analyzing all of this.
I agree but can we give him more than ten days before we want his head. This is ridiculous. Let him at least have a season to put things together before we question every move of his.