Georgios Papagiannis
- Thread starter beb0p
- Start date
Man looking at some of these comments I wish people could see what Nikola Peković looked like as an 18/19 year old basketball player. Not in a million years would have people predicted that he would be a solid center in Europe let alone in the NBA. His transformation in 3 years since was dramatic. He was just a big, unpolished lump of a lad like Papagiannis.
Gasol was listed at 280# when he was traded to the Memphis Grizzles.
http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/grizzlies_trade_gasol_to_lakers-080201.html
Currently listed at 265..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Gasol
Doesnt sound like such a 'myth' anymore, me thinks. And even then, Gasol was older than Papa and lost weight once coming over.
Gasol in 2008 when the trade went down, courtesy of above wikilink..
Wont allow me to paste it, see above wiki link under early years sub heading to see exactly how he DID NOT look like he does now. Thanks.
http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/grizzlies_trade_gasol_to_lakers-080201.html
Currently listed at 265..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Gasol
Doesnt sound like such a 'myth' anymore, me thinks. And even then, Gasol was older than Papa and lost weight once coming over.
Gasol in 2008 when the trade went down, courtesy of above wikilink..
Wont allow me to paste it, see above wiki link under early years sub heading to see exactly how he DID NOT look like he does now. Thanks.
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280 pounds is actually quite close to Marc Gasol's current playing weight given that he once weighted around 350 pounds. Gasol actually lost a lot of weight after returning to Barcelona, he credits the Barcelona program with getting his body in shape and refining his game.
Furthermore, Marc was already a pure good jump shooter and a play-maker with passing skill and high basketball IQ in high school. If Papagiannis possesses those qualities I'd love to see it.
Here is an article that highlights the journey of Marc from Spain to Memphis to Spain to the NBA.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...cs-blues-city-made-marc-gasol-nbas-top-center
C'mon Brick. Please tell me you're not becoming one of these SL guys? What this kid did or didn't do in SL means next to nothing. WCS didn't play well, by most accounts, and yet we know he can play in the NBA. Most importantly, this kid just turned 19 less than 2 weeks ago. I remember Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash not being very impressive early on either -- despite being more accomplished -- and we know how they turned out. Obviously nobody expects this kid to reach those levels, but they are 2 good examples of how you really can't know much of anything this early. If he still stinks 2-3 years from now, I'll be concerned. Right now, it should be expected.
You honestly think there's a chance the team's top draft pick won't be on the roster? I certainly don't. Hell, they kept Eric Moreland and Duje Dukan on the roster last season and they almost never played.
You honestly think there's a chance the team's top draft pick won't be on the roster? I certainly don't. Hell, they kept Eric Moreland and Duje Dukan on the roster last season and they almost never played.
To those who are already convinced Vlade made a mistake with GP:
Let me ask you this, what did you know about this kid before the Kings drafted him? If your like the vast majority of this board, you knew next to nothing and there wasn't much information available out there. Reports indicate that Vlade knew his coach so perhaps he knows something we don't. I don't know.
Some who have watched him in SL say they see skills there to be worked with. Are they being overly hopeful that Vlade didn't make a mistake? Perhaps. He is human.
Some who have watched him in SL seem to have their minds made up that he won't amount to beans. Are they being overly sensitive that their desired pick wasn't chosen? Perhaps. They too are human.
Vlade isn't perfect and has made missteps but he has seemed to recognize and recover from them quickly. He hedged his bets and took one pick and the one next to Mr. irrelevant and made it into three picks and the one next to Mr. irrelevant. If two of the three or four, if you want to count the one next to Mr. irrelevant make it, he has done good. Irregardless of what order they were originally picked. Two of the first three have showed promise and one of those two might turn into something special. Papa is still a question mark, just like he was when he was picked. For a hedged bet, I would prefer that he nailed all three but will be pleased with if it's just two of the three. He's on a guaranteed contract for two years then team options so he at worse has two years to prove Vlade right.
Let me ask you this, what did you know about this kid before the Kings drafted him? If your like the vast majority of this board, you knew next to nothing and there wasn't much information available out there. Reports indicate that Vlade knew his coach so perhaps he knows something we don't. I don't know.
Some who have watched him in SL say they see skills there to be worked with. Are they being overly hopeful that Vlade didn't make a mistake? Perhaps. He is human.
Some who have watched him in SL seem to have their minds made up that he won't amount to beans. Are they being overly sensitive that their desired pick wasn't chosen? Perhaps. They too are human.
Vlade isn't perfect and has made missteps but he has seemed to recognize and recover from them quickly. He hedged his bets and took one pick and the one next to Mr. irrelevant and made it into three picks and the one next to Mr. irrelevant. If two of the three or four, if you want to count the one next to Mr. irrelevant make it, he has done good. Irregardless of what order they were originally picked. Two of the first three have showed promise and one of those two might turn into something special. Papa is still a question mark, just like he was when he was picked. For a hedged bet, I would prefer that he nailed all three but will be pleased with if it's just two of the three. He's on a guaranteed contract for two years then team options so he at worse has two years to prove Vlade right.
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Active roster.
And I have ALWAYS been a SL guy. You can tell tons, and its always been a big leg up for me with new guys since I only sporadically watch college ball. you just have to know what to watch.
Here's Papa right now:
Good
-- potentially good hands and soft touch as a finisher. I say potentially because he's shown it before, but barely did in SL.
-- can set a big screen
Bad
-- ineffective rebounder relying purely on size, slow to react, not physical, not aggressive
-- ineffective rim protector despite size, lacks lift, explosiveness, when he challenges guys shoot over him. think Aaron Gray.
-- ineffective defender away from the hoop, per usual for a guy his size -- they have to dominate near the rim to make up for it
-- no post game, just barely in its infancy
-- no real evidence of a jumper, but fact he takes them means he might at least have some base to work from
-- I'm not worried about the out of shape part. That's one of those things you have to know to ignore in SL.
In short, he did not show he was an NBA player. If he was 6'10" and an undrafted free agent we would have already forgotten his name.
Obviously he will be on the 15 man roster, but that's a problem now. He is a project. He wanted to come over which was nice to see, but how is he going to feel to be trading in minutes for one of the power teams in Europe in front of dangerously rabid fans for a couple of thousand diehards in Reno and long bus rides? Dunno. Do know if we keep him on the active roster he will be taking a spot from somebody more able to help us today. If Papa had shown no skills but was active, physical, and aggressive he would have ways to contribute. But instead he showed the physical game of a skilled player without the skills.
P.S. After seeing Vlade's post summer league interview it seems clear that Papa may be a bit of a personal pet project. That's both good and bad. bad because you don't want your GM projecting himself onto kids as a reason to draft them, good because obviously the kid could use some help and having the GM as a part time adviser/coach can only help.
And I have ALWAYS been a SL guy. You can tell tons, and its always been a big leg up for me with new guys since I only sporadically watch college ball. you just have to know what to watch.
Here's Papa right now:
Good
-- potentially good hands and soft touch as a finisher. I say potentially because he's shown it before, but barely did in SL.
-- can set a big screen
Bad
-- ineffective rebounder relying purely on size, slow to react, not physical, not aggressive
-- ineffective rim protector despite size, lacks lift, explosiveness, when he challenges guys shoot over him. think Aaron Gray.
-- ineffective defender away from the hoop, per usual for a guy his size -- they have to dominate near the rim to make up for it
-- no post game, just barely in its infancy
-- no real evidence of a jumper, but fact he takes them means he might at least have some base to work from
-- I'm not worried about the out of shape part. That's one of those things you have to know to ignore in SL.
In short, he did not show he was an NBA player. If he was 6'10" and an undrafted free agent we would have already forgotten his name.
Obviously he will be on the 15 man roster, but that's a problem now. He is a project. He wanted to come over which was nice to see, but how is he going to feel to be trading in minutes for one of the power teams in Europe in front of dangerously rabid fans for a couple of thousand diehards in Reno and long bus rides? Dunno. Do know if we keep him on the active roster he will be taking a spot from somebody more able to help us today. If Papa had shown no skills but was active, physical, and aggressive he would have ways to contribute. But instead he showed the physical game of a skilled player without the skills.
P.S. After seeing Vlade's post summer league interview it seems clear that Papa may be a bit of a personal pet project. That's both good and bad. bad because you don't want your GM projecting himself onto kids as a reason to draft them, good because obviously the kid could use some help and having the GM as a part time adviser/coach can only help.
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Here's probably the main issue I have with Papa, excluding any of his play from SL. He was drafted as a potential Cousins replacement, rather than a guy who could one day make Cousins, our franchise player, better on the floor. I don't see any scenario where these 2 guys can share the floor for a meaningful amount of time.Both guys are just meant to play the C position. Drafting a projected backup C with your 13th big is bad enough, but the fact we have Kosta Kofous, one of the top bench bigs in the NBA, on a bargain contract, in the middle of his prime for 3 more years makes it even worse.
With the other 3 guys, its very easy to see how they could play off Cousins down the line. Malachi and Skal add length, spacing (catch and shoot potential) and defensive potential. Bogdan from the limited tape we have on him looks like a playmaker/shooter. Which is how it should be; your draft picks should complement your franchise player and his skill-set. Papa, in addition to being a massive project, just doesn't look like he'll be able to do that.
With the other 3 guys, its very easy to see how they could play off Cousins down the line. Malachi and Skal add length, spacing (catch and shoot potential) and defensive potential. Bogdan from the limited tape we have on him looks like a playmaker/shooter. Which is how it should be; your draft picks should complement your franchise player and his skill-set. Papa, in addition to being a massive project, just doesn't look like he'll be able to do that.
Yes to be honest I really don't see a realistic high ceiling for Papa based on what we've seen but I don't want to harp on the point lest I be labeled stupid and a "complete idiot" and so on. I would be lying if I said I don't suspect some form of Euro-bias by Vlade/Peja, but what do I know.
What worries me is that his post game is so raw, and he's not a particularly athletic guy. At his size the ability to punish opposing teams down low is really the only thing that would let him stay on the floor in the current NBA, what with teams raining down 3s at such high clips and not playing true bigs.
Even then, you raise a very good point about fit. While not explicitly stated or picked as a potential replacement for Cousins, it is quite a logical inference to draw.
Nonetheless I do hope he will start looking better in the reg season and I'm rooting for him to succeed.
What worries me is that his post game is so raw, and he's not a particularly athletic guy. At his size the ability to punish opposing teams down low is really the only thing that would let him stay on the floor in the current NBA, what with teams raining down 3s at such high clips and not playing true bigs.
Even then, you raise a very good point about fit. While not explicitly stated or picked as a potential replacement for Cousins, it is quite a logical inference to draw.
Nonetheless I do hope he will start looking better in the reg season and I'm rooting for him to succeed.
This was posted in another thread by someone else but I couldn't find it again and it is pertinent here. In this interview with Vlade talking about summer league and free agency, Vlade gives a measured response with "constructive criticism" in terms of Georgios Papagiannis. Conditioning and reaction time was brought up. It sounded like he was going to personally work with him, to get him acclimated to the NBA game away from the European one.