George Karl's Wild Ride

[VF21]

Aykis has tied the supposed "crap rumor" and what Ham witnessed together.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/...george-karl-seem-to-be-drifting-apart-already

Maybe that thread was closed prematurely. Seems there might be some truth here.

Ham didn't witness anything. He says "something happened" but doesn't know what it was. I don't think it's logical to string one conclusion to another, but at least James Ham has some access to the Kings.

The other thread was pure garbage and it was not closed prematurely.

 

[rainmaker]

Where's there's smoke, there's fire.

We've got Voisin saying upper management is questioning what Karl can give. We've got Dave saying he'd be surprised if Karl was here next season and to buckle up. We've got Amick alluding to serious issues. We've got Ham suggesting something happened in the locker room.

Amick is speculating, as are others. Other thread, clearly closed prematurely.

 

[9x1x6]

LINK REMOVED

After Cousins unleashed the F-bombs on Karl, all the head coach – who publicly feuded with the Kings best player last summer – could do was walk away, a source tells The Big Lead. Afterward, Cousins felt some remorse for his actions, asking a couple of teammates if he came down too hard on the coach. They calmly told him, “you can’t scream and curse like that at your coach in front of everyone.”

 

[206Fan]

LINK REMOVED

After Cousins unleashed the F-bombs on Karl, all the head coach – who publicly feuded with the Kings best player last summer – could do was walk away, a source tells The Big Lead. Afterward, Cousins felt some remorse for his actions, asking a couple of teammates if he came down too hard on the coach. They calmly told him, “you can’t scream and curse like that at your coach in front of everyone.”

A thread talking about this was closed. Mods didn't want postings of rumors

 

[Henkel]

Same old crap. You hire a GM with zero NBA front office experience, and he fails. Maybe in the noble pursuit of appeasing his best player, but never the less fails, and it's time to fire the coach. Same **** different day.

I watched a decade of this with the Raiders as well. Things finally changed when we got new ownership that was willing to hand full control over to a well established front office guy. Then he left him alone for 4 years, something that Al or Vivek would never be able to do, and now we finally resemble a respectable organization. When you fire 10 coaches in as many years you're not one more coaching move from success.

 

[Kings_on_the_RiSE]

We better get Thibs. Otherwise, I'm going to have to root for the Warriors for the rest of the season because this season will be lost.

 

[VF21]

We better get Thibs. Otherwise, I'm going to have to root for the Warriors for the rest of the season because this season will be lost.

You might want to go join a Warriors board now, then, and avoid the rush.

 

[KingsFaninSTK]

There is no reason to fire Karl, if so the season is done. The problem is the front office. I thought everything was all good to go until Vlade drafted Cauley-Stein over Mudiay. To me that was the sign he is clueless. Bad draft picks have killed this team and it is going to get worse until we can sign some big free agents next year. This team has no scorers and could have really used Lou Williams.

 

[VF21]

There is no reason to fire Karl, if so the season is done. The problem is the front office. I thought everything was all good to go until Vlade drafted Cauley-Stein over Mudiay. To me that was the sign he is clueless. Bad draft picks have killed this team and it is going to get worse until we can sign some big free agents next year. This team has no scorers and could have really used Lou Williams.

1. Mudiay over WCS? LOL!
2. Sign some big free agents? With the crap going on now, who do you think will be willing to sign?
3. Vlade clueless? Right adjective, wrong proper noun.

If you've been lurking around here for any period of time, I think you know those topics were discussed ad nauseum months ago.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah, Vlade walked into the mess folks and did his best. He went after the EXACT talent the team needed, bummer, he couldn't land them so he moved on to plan B and made the best of it. Make no mistake, Vlade proved his worth and an understanding of team needs when he went out in free agency and went straight to the positions of need and players that fit it perfectly in Matthews, Koufos, and Pat Bev. And no, he DIDN'T go after freaking Monta Ellis! Just wanted to get that out there.

He was trying to build a brick wall of defense in front of a cinder block wall of defense so take that NBA!

 

[KingsFaninSTK]

You really think Cauley-Stein is better than Mudiay? Come on man. Cauley-Stein should not haev been drafted over 10 and make sure you save this thread to compare the two in three years. Look at all of the draft boards - every national analysts would agree.

And yes I do visit this board a lot, it is the best Kings Board I have found. I read everyones comments back then and the reason I point it out is due to the problems going on. There is no way this current team could win at a high level with the players on it. Outside of Cousins and Gay there are no scorers on the team. My point is the reason for the issues is the draft decisions over the past five years. I posted in my other thread to back this up, in the NBA you cannot draft that poorly over a five year span and expect to win.

 

[Henkel]

I don't get the Vlade lionizing. Can we just talk about the moves instead of all the worthless superlatives. He made a win now move. If we don't win now he did a terrible job and those pick swaps hamstring you in any proper post Cousins rebuild. I don't really care about brownie points for intent.

 

[twslam07]

There is no reason to fire Karl, if so the season is done. The problem is the front office. I thought everything was all good to go until Vlade drafted Cauley-Stein over Mudiay. To me that was the sign he is clueless.

Wow. That is a very bold statement judging by where both were projected to go and by how both having been playing this year. I'm interested to know why you're so upset with the Cauley-Stein pick. Many of us here were excited about the pick and even more of us are excited how well he has played right out of the gate. Mudiay hasn't done anything to impress thus far. That's not to say he won't get better, but you seem very out of place with this comment and will most likely find yourself in a very small minority.

Bad draft picks have killed this team and it is going to get worse until we can sign some big free agents next year.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Sacramento has never been the most desirable free agent destination. Let alone for big name free agents.

This team has no scorers and could have really used Lou Williams.

We don't need another scorer. Cousins & Gay are capable of 20 each, Collison can put up 15, Belinelli can put up 12, Rondo & Casspi can put up 10 each... Again, our problem is not scoring. Our problem is that we need time to gel, we need a better offensive scheme that plays to our scorers strengths, and we need to give some effort on defense AND switch up the defensive strategy. Switching on a light screen drives me crazy. It gives the advantage to the offense because you're willingly giving them a mismatch to exploit.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't get the Vlade lionizing. Can we just talk about the moves instead of all the worthless superlatives. He made a win now move. If we don't win now he did a terrible job and those pick swaps hamstring you in any proper post Cousins rebuild. I don't really care about brownie points for intent.

Same to the monday morning quarterbacking. What should have done, sit back and stay status quo? It wasn't an option. And oh yeah, I'm pretty sure the rebuild happens if and when Cousins is moved and if that happens I'm sure the idea is to get something to rebuild with at that point. The only thing I can really critique Vlade on with the moves he's made is the commitment to cutting salary without the guarantee of landing Matthews. This FA period was strange though because every team was clearing space on a gamble.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Aykis has tied the supposed "crap rumor" and what Ham witnessed together.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/...george-karl-seem-to-be-drifting-apart-already

Maybe that thread was closed prematurely. Seems there might be some truth here.

Should never have been closed in the 1st place.

 

[Livinthedream]

I don't get the Vlade lionizing. Can we just talk about the moves instead of all the worthless superlatives. He made a win now move. If we don't win now he did a terrible job and those pick swaps hamstring you in any proper post Cousins rebuild. I don't really care about brownie points for intent.

I would say he gambled and lost. Not that it was terrible.

 

[Bricklayer]

I would say he gambled and lost. Not that it was terrible.

Don't thinik we can say that at all. in fact if we survive this it might be precisely because we vetted up.

The problem here, the fly in the ointment, is Karl. Who Vlade didn't hire.

 

[VF21]

Should never have been closed in the 1st place.

Disregarding whether it was reliable or not, the topic was already being discussed - and is being discussed - in several other places. Closing the thread just made one less place a single over-worked moderator had to keep an eye on.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Disregarding whether it was reliable or not, the topic was already being discussed - and is being discussed - in several other places. Closing the thread just made one less place a single over-worked moderator had to keep an eye on.

Fair enough.

 

[Livinthedream]

Don't thinik we can say that at all. in fact if we survive this it might be precisely because we vetted up.

The problem here, the fly in the ointment, is Karl. Who Vlade didn't hire.

True. If we don't consider keeping Karl when he was gifted a chance to fire him this offseason as one of his moves.

To be clear, I'm not criticising Vlade or even suggesting he should have fired Karl. I'm just saying Vlade made some hard choices even beyond players to try to win now.

 

[gunks]

People are seriously bashing Vlade now?

That's comical.

He went out and improved this roster. Do we still have holes? Yup. But before Vlade got here, the roster was a mess. We had Cuz, Rudy, and DC..... That's it.

So last summer he went and got us a backup C, a solid SG, gambled with Rondo, and drafted a future DPOY contender. He picked up players that addressed needs, and work with our franchise guy. Something PDA was incapable of doing.

This roster was capable of 40-45 wins (health permitting).

Not Vlade's fault our silly owner hired an old dog coach who's set in his ways, and may very well just be here for a least paycheck. You'd think Vivek would have learned from how Don Nelson did the Warriors.

 

[Henkel]

Don't thinik we can say that at all. in fact if we survive this it might be precisely because we vetted up.

The problem here, the fly in the ointment, is Karl. Who Vlade didn't hire.

If this next five games go poorly and we dig our self a hole we can't escape from then what? It's going to be sold a noble defeat for Vlade. The home town guy who just wanted to win so badly, which is fine and sort of reasonable. My point is Vlade and his moves point to a deeper problem with the organization. The ownership hired a unqualified home town guy that they could sell everyone, not the best guy for the job. Go get a professional and have ownership commit to staying out of his way. Even if he determines that a win now mentality is simple throwing good money after bad and instead opts for a full rebuild. It will never happen because that requires patience and forethought something our owner with a new arena coming has little interest in.

 

[dude12]

There is no reason to fire Karl, if so the season is done. The problem is the front office. I thought everything was all good to go until Vlade drafted Cauley-Stein over Mudiay. To me that was the sign he is clueless. Bad draft picks have killed this team and it is going to get worse until we can sign some big free agents next year. This team has no scorers and could have really used Lou Williams.

Pete? That you?

 

[Bricklayer]

If this next five games go poorly and we dig our self a hole we can't escape from then what? It's going to be sold a noble defeat for Vlade. The home town guy who just wanted to win so badly, which is fine and sort of reasonable. My point is Vlade and his moves point to a deeper problem with the organization. The ownership hired a unqualified home town guy that they could sell everyone, not the best guy for the job. Go get a professional and have ownership commit to staying out of his way. Even if he determines that a win now mentality is simple throwing good money after bad and instead opts for a full rebuild. It will never happen because that requires patience and forethought something our owner with a new arena coming has little interest in.

There's no particular such thing as a "professional" GM. Vlade is every bit as "professional" as half the guys who take the job. You main qualification are either hey, I played in the league, or hey, I am a stat geek. Sometimes you were a coach. Or a lawyer even. A "professional" like Joe Dumars or Danny Ainge proved perfectly able to put together championship teams. They snuck them in around teams built by Mitch Kupchak, who took over for Jerry West, who beat our teams built by Geoff Petrie.

And he made the right calls. Smarter calls than most "professionals".

 

[kingwin]

Karls system does not work with our best players. You cant give freedom to rudy or demarcus offensively- demarcus turns the ball over to much and rudy is inefficient. I dont know why its so hard for vivek and vlade to figure out how to win with demarcus - how you win- is play a style like malone had - but just add more shooters and no ben is not a shooter. The best coach for this team is obviously thibs, but of course vivek wants the team to be the warriors offensively, which is laughable - considering our guard play - so we will never hire a defensive minded coach that would just throw it to demarcus or rudy on the block where they belong.

 

[Henkel]

There's no particular such thing as a "professional" GM. Vlade is every bit as "professional" as half the guys who take the job. You main qualification are either hey, I played in the league, or hey, I am a stat geek. Sometimes you were a coach. Or a lawyer even. A "professional" like Joe Dumars or Danny Ainge proved perfectly able to put together championship teams. They snuck them in around teams built by Mitch Kupchak, who took over for Jerry West, who beat our teams built by Geoff Petrie.

And he made the right calls. Smarter calls than most "professionals".

I don't believe that's correct. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but if you look around the league today former player aren't stepping into head front office roles with no experience. Guy's like Ferry payed their dues for years before they got a shot. Just glancing over the a list of GM's you'd be hard pressed to find anyone with a ascension that looks like Vlade's.

His calls are smart if they get results. If you give up picks and swaps to win now and lose Cousins anyways then that's a bad move.

 

[The_Jamal]

No one's answered on what happens if we do go hire a Thibs or Brooks and the wins still aren't coming? Do they get 9 games before we start calling for them to be fired?

 

[dude12]

No one's answered on what happens if we do go hire a Karl or Brooks and the wins still aren't coming?

The same answer as if we trade Cousins and what if the wins still don't come....nobody knows.

 

[SacKings384]

I just don't understand. Cousins admitted he cussed out Karl and has apologized for it. There's no "We don't know if this really happened" anymore. Now it's a matter of getting everyone back on track. Cousins was in the wrong. It would be crazy to fire Karl this early in the season imo.

 

[SacKings384]

Ham didn't witness anything. He says "something happened" but doesn't know what it was. I don't think it's logical to string one conclusion to another, but at least James Ham has some access to the Kings.

The other thread was pure garbage and it was not closed prematurely.

From DMC himself... Something happened and it was DMC losing his cool. It's not just media making stuff up. Now this team needs to turn that fire into something constructive and get a win tonight.