Letsgokings13
Starter
Hopefully schemes will be adjusted
macadocious
Starter
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones 2m2 minutes ago
Players discussed their comfort leave with plays, coaches talked attitudes. Divac: "I was very pleased with how we talked about it openly."
It's nice that the players basically felt the same things that we saw.
EDIT: It's disheartening that our HOF coach did not see the same thing.
Players discussed their comfort leave with plays, coaches talked attitudes. Divac: "I was very pleased with how we talked about it openly."
It's nice that the players basically felt the same things that we saw.
EDIT: It's disheartening that our HOF coach did not see the same thing.
John Galt
Starter
James Ham @James_Ham 7m7 minutes ago
"We had a problem in the family. We addressed it, we talked about it." -Vlade Divac
I'm sure D'Alessandro would have done it all the same, right?
"We had a problem in the family. We addressed it, we talked about it." -Vlade Divac
I'm sure D'Alessandro would have done it all the same, right?
Jkbiker
Starter
I signed in my hubby's thread only to ask anyone just a few questions....everyone please STOP believing everything Carmichael Dave for one...but as a chick I need to understand WHY everyone THINKS Coach Karl should be and will be fired? As a died hard fan, through the good times and the bad times since 1986...I'm just wondering who's really the blame here? I'm confused on why everyone immediately wants to fire one of the greatest coaches Sacramento has had? Jesus, we play 8 games and already people are out for blood.....again. And we're playing against some top leagues, by no means have they been in the past even e-a-s-y teams? (Well with the exception of the Lakers LMAO) We have some great players, but we need some fricken time to gel....WTF really did you learn your job in 8 days 'proficiently'??????? Did you honestly mesh with each and every person in your job whether it's a office, outdoors, or whatever your profession is? IN 8 DAYS??????
So here's some questions to pretty much sum it up~
Did Coach tell the team " Go out and miss your damn free throws"?
Did Coach tell the team "Continue with your bad defense'?
Did Coach tell the team "Keep up the good on your poor passing"?
Did Coach tell the team "Keep digging yourselves out of a hole SO WE CAN CHOKE in the 4th quarter"?
So here's some questions to pretty much sum it up~
Did Coach tell the team " Go out and miss your damn free throws"?
Did Coach tell the team "Continue with your bad defense'?
Did Coach tell the team "Keep up the good on your poor passing"?
Did Coach tell the team "Keep digging yourselves out of a hole SO WE CAN CHOKE in the 4th quarter"?
I don't want to sound disrespectful, but I took off my homer glasses a while ago...
Why couldn't we have stretched those players? Didn't we have stretch provision?
Iced Espresso
Starter
What does homer glasses or maximizing the cap space at X amount of cost have to do with the stretch?
Don't like the price, fine.
But it was not an over pay.
What you described would have left you on the hook for some salary. If you think that was the better move, fine.
Don't say it was an over pay.
How is it Karl's fault that Rudy decides to stop passing the ball each time he touches it?
Hows it Karl's fault that Rudy takes poor shots?
Hows it Karl's fault that this team only has 1 shooter?
Hows it Karl's fault that Cousins complains after very play and WALKS on defense leading to an easy basket for the other team?
How is it Karl's fault that Rondo tries on defense, and sometimes he doesn't?
How is it Karl's fault that Cousins was out for 4 game?
How is it Karl's fault that Ben has regressed?
How is it Karl's fault that Vlade drafted a player who has 0 offense?
How is it Karl's fault that guys unforcefully turn it over constantly?
How is if Karl's fault that he only had 1 offseason with these players?
Everything is not Karl's fault.
Our only real big men are Cuz/WCS/Kofus. How exactly is it Karl's fault that our front court gets dominated without Cousins when we only have those 2 other guys?
crap, if we're really talking about firing him after 7-8 games, this is the worst nba organization behind the nets. Fans were in denial when the entire Karl vs. Cousins thing came out. Fans are in denial about the Stauskas trade being terrible. And now, fans are being in denial about this FO being terrible if they fire Karl 8 games into the damn season.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I laugh at all the "stretch this guy, stretch that guy" stuff that every cheap seater in the NBA throws around. As if when you stretch somebody you don't have to pay them, and they aren't there clogging your cap for the next half decade.
You dump bad contracts is what you do with them. Not "stretch" them so that you get to be hindered by them for the next three years.
But your continuing focus on Vlade's good trade does bring up an interesting wrinkle with the current mini-crisis: Vlade made the confident play that we would turn things, and if we did he gave up very little. Just a 35% shooting scrawny white kid who looked scared of the big bad men last year. But if somehow we continued to suck eggs, then the pick swaps become an issue. So it may be accelerating the current concern. We can't just sit around and passively wait for things to hopefully work out. We must take action to make sure that they do.
It was a laughable trade because we basically did it in order to get a shot at an unwanted Rondo. We could've had Belinelli and Kofus without Rondo. Hell, we could've and Lin too.
It was a terrible trade to give up that much for cap space. It was a rookie, drsft swaps, and a future 1st rounder. Philly fleeced us because our rookie GM was desperate.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Iced Espresso
Starter
Not only this Brick.
But cap space relief right when people are competing with free agents in the market.
That's expensive.
This should be a lesson in cap economics for mistakes and the price it takes to get rid of them.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Our rookie GM was desperate to build a veteran roster.
AND HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
Then he went out and executed it, which was rather brilliant. Our "rookie GM" knows a hell of a lot more about the NBA than just about any of his critics. Paper pushers and bloggers and wannabes.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Has nothing to do with a rookie GM.
It was gonna cost a great deal to give someone undesirables when everyone is trying to sign people.
Philly didn't fleece us, Philly found a buyer for the cap space.
Now if you don't like the results of the cap space, or question it in the first place that is completely understandable.
Nik was a rookie who was forced to play under 3 different head coaches...
Not surprised by the amount of hate towards Nik. It's Ben's 3rd season struggling, and fans in the other article talked about trading him for Terrance Ross on a 11mpy deal. He sucks as much as Ben does, if not worse. He doesn't have the higher ceiling either and is ass on defense.
The Kings have a rep of giving up on young prospects.
Those swaps will become a problem if this year fails. Philly might actually have a good team next year...which a lot of people ignore.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If Karl is half the coach he's been proven to be then we see a much different team against the Pistons. It's his move to make now. His adjustment. We'll see what he can do. If he doesn't make one or doesn't want to then obviously something has to give.
K
KingMilz
Guest
The problem is the players the only way we get a much different team is if we trade the cancers and stat padders.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
oh b.s.
None of the players have played that way until this year. Hence not only can they be fixed, they already were fixed, and have been broken by the faulty system. Fixing them is no more complex than going back to things they do well.
CuzistanKing
G-League
Reading all the "why you blame Karl?" responses, I have to wonder - what is it that you guys/gals think the coach even does for a team? Like, if we have to blame the players for everything, what's the coach's job? Sure, the coach can't make them make their free throws, but the coach CAN prioritize offense over defense in practice (=bad defense), or set up an abomination of an offensive structure that doesn't fit the personnel (=turnovers, low FG%, fatigue), or jerk players in and out of rotations (=turnovers and lack of focus), etc. etc. etc. It seems that a lot of people severely underestimate the impact a good or bad fit of a coach can have on the team. These exact same players played their hearts out for Malone and suddenly turned into rotten eggs under Karl. For all the "just be professionals" talk, these are not robots - a good coach has to be as much of a motivator as tactician. Right now we have neither.
And make no mistake about it - if we do pull out of this nosedive, it's going to be due to Vlade's peacemaking and Karl's shelving his ego.
And make no mistake about it - if we do pull out of this nosedive, it's going to be due to Vlade's peacemaking and Karl's shelving his ego.
J
jdbraver
Guest
R u sure it's the coach. For instance cuz always has been lobbying to bring the ball up and take 3s. Could it be Vlade and Vivek are now groveling to cuz and taking away Karl's power.
allrightythen
Starter
I'm no great basketball mind by any stretch, but I do think it's odd that 3 of our most important players (Cousins, Gay, and Rondo) all had their most successful seasons in systems that were not fast-paced. Am I crazy for thinking our roster seems better suited to a slower, more grind-it-out style of play?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I have no idea where you are getting that from.
Cuz does like to handle yes, that's not what's changed.
It is so amusing that the list you just put has that dreaded word as an answer: Pace
When you are forced to run beyond your comfort zone you will, get winded, miss freethrows, not be in place when needed on defense, get mental lapses for turnovers... and it will get the worse in the fourth quarter.
As pointed many times, major Kings players are not built for GSW pace approach. Maybe after a year of conditioning, learning... do not think we have that year.
Minor clarification: It ended up being a team meeting, according to a variety of different tweets. And, according to Vlade, they had some issues and they addressed them "as a family."
If anybody can turn things around, I still believe it's Vlade Divac.
notoriousBEN3
Bench
I won't blame this whole thing entirely on Karl, but for everyone defending him, have you seen the games? I certainly haven't seen all of them, but from what i have seen, there are a lot of things that seem painfully off that i perceive to be a direct result of Karl
-Not playing to guys strengths: Cus shooting 3's, Rudy playing ISO ball AND power forward, Marco having to become a playmaker instead of hitting open shots off of well set screens, not speeding up the game and letting guys like WCS run during the games when Cuz was out, etc etc. Bottom line is, we have talented players, and Karl seems to be trying to make guys into player that they're not
-Defense: Maybe this isn't entirely on Karl, but the guys clearly look confused on D. This probably has something to do with effort and intensity, but our defensive set's just don't seem to be working, and as we saw last year under Malone, these guys CAN defend. Hell, the roster has changed a bit but Cuz, Koufos, and WCS vs Cuz, JT, Reggie Evans....how is it even possible that the D has regressed with such massive upgrades? My guess is that it's less about the players and more about the schemes, which is on Karl
To me, those appear to be the most blatant issues, and anyone who thinks that this mess is not on Karl and the team needs more time to "gel" is just plain blind. If it was about gelling, then we'd have some consistent lineups by now, not Acy starting...in fact, Acy starting should prove a point right there that Karl has to get his head out of his a**.
Bottom line - play to the strength of your roster, quit trying to make guys into player's they're not. That is on Karl
-Not playing to guys strengths: Cus shooting 3's, Rudy playing ISO ball AND power forward, Marco having to become a playmaker instead of hitting open shots off of well set screens, not speeding up the game and letting guys like WCS run during the games when Cuz was out, etc etc. Bottom line is, we have talented players, and Karl seems to be trying to make guys into player that they're not
-Defense: Maybe this isn't entirely on Karl, but the guys clearly look confused on D. This probably has something to do with effort and intensity, but our defensive set's just don't seem to be working, and as we saw last year under Malone, these guys CAN defend. Hell, the roster has changed a bit but Cuz, Koufos, and WCS vs Cuz, JT, Reggie Evans....how is it even possible that the D has regressed with such massive upgrades? My guess is that it's less about the players and more about the schemes, which is on Karl
To me, those appear to be the most blatant issues, and anyone who thinks that this mess is not on Karl and the team needs more time to "gel" is just plain blind. If it was about gelling, then we'd have some consistent lineups by now, not Acy starting...in fact, Acy starting should prove a point right there that Karl has to get his head out of his a**.
Bottom line - play to the strength of your roster, quit trying to make guys into player's they're not. That is on Karl
John Galt
Starter
I honestly don't understand where you're coming from on this 206fan. Which of those guys do you wish you could find on our bench right now? Jason Thompson?? Carl Landry?? Nik Stauskas?? Which one of those guys was going to make us a better squad than we are right now?
Two things I feel like you overlook in your arguments against the trade.
1) the first rounder that the Sixers get is so unlikely to be any kind of impact player. ever. can we just agree to look back at this in 3 years and see who the Sixers get with that pick that the Kings should envy? It is not easy to get an impact player with a later first rounder like that though. It isn't nothing - it is an asset - but it was the sugar on the deal (along with Nik) that was necessary to pull off the salary dump that we needed so badly.
2) the Carl Landry contract was one of the biggest front office boners of the Vivek era. A catastrophe and you don't get rid of a contract like that unless you have some sugar to put in the deal. if you can prove that there was some kind of a plan B on the table where somebody else was willing to take JT and Landry off our hands, lets please see it. You feel like there was a way to get it done cheaper - I think that is imaginary on your part.
I was, and am, ecstatic about the trade. It was not just made so we could overpay for Rondo. We were going hard after Matthews with that money first. You shouldn't necessarily bundle Rondo and that deal together - they weren't done in one fell swoop. And it's moot because I love having Rondo aboard anyway.
Small markets with crappy front office situations have to overpay for talent as they are getting things rolling. one year deal, $10M that deal is not hurting you or the fans or encumbering our cap situation one iota. It was an awesome play - low risk high reward.
It was a great trade. Every time I look at the bench and don't see Thompson and Landry I am happy. I don't see why you keep bringing it up as if was a Vlade blunder - I don't think it was.
edit,
PS: Just checked for grins... Nik is playing a lot, and shooting 35% from the floor, 28% on 3's, for the 0-7 Sixers. Yeah they skinned us all right.
PPS: checked again. Carl Landry is their highest paid player at $6.5M he hasn't played. ouch for the Kings on the deal. big ouch. Really miss those guys.
Last edited:
macadocious
Starter
I've seen every minute of every game, sans a quick run to the restroom without pausing.
The defensive schemes are terrible for our players. We were running a switch game on the Clippers in essence to try and force Pierce and Blake to shoot mid range jumpers over our players. The % stats may have said that those are their worst shots, but did it show what percentage those shots were when either A. wide open or B. when guarded by a 6 foot tall player?
On offense we have cousins averaging 3+ 3point attempts per game. That's starting guard numbers for 3pt attempts per game, from our beast of a center. We finally started running 2 guards off screens, the problem is we have a PG who is not a threat to shoot so the passing lanes get eaten up. There are a lot of things that need addressing.
Simply, this team needs to play regular ball, man defensive, and the only ones who we should be comfortable switching with are WCS and Cassipi.
On offensive we need inside out, with cuts. Hmmm, I seem to remember an offense that ran that way that worked really really well....
Sac.1989
Starter
One can hope. We cant have stubborn, stuck in his ways Karl when this comes to afront.
Im glad that Demarcus is taking a leadership stance on this, he is growing as a leader and i know he's looking as this experience as something that will shape him positively. Our old kings would have internalised this situation and we would have crumbled later on in a heap of frustration.
No ones issue here on in the team seems to be George. We got over all that last season. What is the issue is how we are dam playing, the plans, schemes, the systems implimented.
Have this meeting. Talk it out like men. No in fighting just getting on the same page.
We did that between boogie and karl at a personal level last season now we need to do it on a professional level and work together to move forward.
Vlade will play a key role in this behind the scenes. Its important he give Karl the freedom to work his schemes within the framework of defence and demarcus in the paint and not on the perimeter.
We can make this work. We absolutely can but it takes Karl to buy in as well as it takes Demarcus being diplomatic about this.
J
jdbraver
Guest
And it is all on the coach?
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