Gavin Maloof 'We've never had an offseason program' until now. What!?

#1

This video is a few days old now, but that comment obviously jumped out at me. Explains a lot, actually. How terrible was Westphal, Theus, Emuss, etc? So many wasted years.

Hopefully we finally see major improvement from some of our younger players. I'm talking to Jimmer, Evans, Honeycutt, Whiteside .. even Outlaw and Thompson.

And this sure does explain a lot of Donte Greene's confusion. SF or PF? too heavy or too light? Seems like he never knew what he was supposed to do over the offseason.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#3
This video was in another thread, but that statement is something that jumped out to me as well.
Finally some good news out of that mouth.
 
#4
Actually they shouldn't have been too confused. After every season, all players get exit interviews and evaluations with the coach and Petrie. They discuss their roles and what they expect them to work on over the summer. What they haven't done in the past is to babysit them through the summer like Smart is now doing. With such a young team, they should have been doing more of that.

Just a note, they don't collect paychecks in the summer. So in players eyes that is their time to do what they want to do. Some players may resist that kind of treatment. And I imagine it's been tough to implement that with veteran players.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#6
Actually they shouldn't have been too confused. After every season, all players get exit interviews and evaluations with the coach and Petrie. They discuss their roles and what they expect them to work on over the summer. What they haven't done in the past is to babysit them through the summer like Smart is now doing. With such a young team, they should have been doing more of that.

Just a note, they don't collect paychecks in the summer. So in players eyes that is their time to do what they want to do. Some players may resist that kind of treatment. And I imagine it's been tough to implement that with veteran players.
Bingo. The NFL has always had "voluntary" mini-camps, rookie camps and scores of players working out at the team's facilities but the NBA offseason is very much an off season. The team's convey what they want in the exit interviews and then leave it to the players to either work on those things or not.

I applaud Smart for instituting it, but as JB correctly points out it is NOT common and most veterans would bristle at the notion.

I am all for hammering the Maloofs when they deserve it (and they deserve it plenty) but they don't here.
 
#7
With so many young guys on the team and some who have shown up in poor shape for training camp, I guess it is necessary to treat them like kids, who need to be scheduled.

I'm laughing at the picture of Adelman ever having to have a summer training program for Vlade, Chris, Bibby, Webber, Peja, Bobby and Christie.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#8
That;s why we're considered a horrible organization for developing young talent. It's beyond ridiculous to blowup the team, commit to a rebuild, stack young players, and not commit to their development. Yet here we are, and it's no wonder agents were steering their clients away from us. I'd say some of this also falls on Petrie who's the gm and hired these coaches, and is in charge of the whole damn thing.
 
#9
With so many young guys on the team and some who have shown up in poor shape for training camp, I guess it is necessary to treat them like kids, who need to be scheduled.

I'm laughing at the picture of Adelman ever having to have a summer training program for Vlade, Chris, Bibby, Webber, Peja, Bobby and Christie.
Ah, finaly Vlade and "summer training program" in the same sentence :)
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#10
Actually they shouldn't have been too confused. After every season, all players get exit interviews and evaluations with the coach and Petrie. They discuss their roles and what they expect them to work on over the summer. What they haven't done in the past is to babysit them through the summer like Smart is now doing. With such a young team, they should have been doing more of that.

Just a note, they don't collect paychecks in the summer. So in players eyes that is their time to do what they want to do. Some players may resist that kind of treatment. And I imagine it's been tough to implement that with veteran players.
+1 Nice to see coaching and management finally taking action on this. Some guys don't need the babysitting (e.g. Jason Thompson), whereas some guys do.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#11
Bingo. The NFL has always had "voluntary" mini-camps, rookie camps and scores of players working out at the team's facilities but the NBA offseason is very much an off season. The team's convey what they want in the exit interviews and then leave it to the players to either work on those things or not.

I applaud Smart for instituting it, but as JB correctly points out it is NOT common and most veterans would bristle at the notion.

I am all for hammering the Maloofs when they deserve it (and they deserve it plenty) but they don't here.
Smart probably got if from Pop's. The Spurs have a summer plan, and have had one for some time. I don't know that they babysit their players, but they do monitor them. Since Smart was an assistant coach under Pop's, its no surprise. I also listened to a podcast of an interview with JT about his current freeagency, and why he suddenly seemed to have his best year last season. He said it was very difficult over the past four years with so many different coachs. Each one had their own agenda, and had a different role on the floor for him. Some wanted him to score more, and others didn't want him to shoot at all, but just to play defense and rebound. Some wanted him in the post, and others wanted him at the highpost.

So in short, it was hard for him to know just exactly what he should work on, to fit whatever program was in place at the time. Perfect example of why this team has been a mess for the last four or five years.
 
#12
You know, deep down inside I really like Gavin Maloof. I think the guy is sincere, I think he represents the team very well. I think that deep down inside the guy is a fan as an owner in the spirit of Mark Cuban (without the billions of course ;))

It is unfortunate that he is related to Joe and George, who i think DO NOT have the same sincerity and fandom of the NBA. I personally think Gavin cares about Sacramento; Joe cares about Sacramento depending on the day and how he feels. I don't think George cares about the community, the team or the league at all. And it is that type of family dynamic that is going to make the future of this franchise in Sacramento very rocky.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#13
Smart probably got if from Pop's. The Spurs have a summer plan, and have had one for some time. I don't know that they babysit their players, but they do monitor them. Since Smart was an assistant coach under Pop's, its no surprise. I also listened to a podcast of an interview with JT about his current freeagency, and why he suddenly seemed to have his best year last season. He said it was very difficult over the past four years with so many different coachs. Each one had their own agenda, and had a different role on the floor for him. Some wanted him to score more, and others didn't want him to shoot at all, but just to play defense and rebound. Some wanted him in the post, and others wanted him at the highpost.

So in short, it was hard for him to know just exactly what he should work on, to fit whatever program was in place at the time. Perfect example of why this team has been a mess for the last four or five years.
I am impressed with Smart here. Yes Pop does this somewhat, as does Riley who literally sets body fat % bench marks and if you don't meet them you don't play. I'm hopeful it will have us heading in the right direction going into training camp. As for everything else, I'll hope for the best since he is our coach going into next season, but that doesn't mean I'm confident about it, just not much I can do about it then cross my fingers.
 
#14
We shouldn't be putting all the blame on the coaches.

We have a GM in Petrie who has been here for a long time and who should have been on top of all these things.

So, the blame should be on the passive/lazy GM Petrie who can't seem to get this franchise in the right direction!
 
Last edited:
#15
Ah, finaly Vlade and "summer training program" in the same sentence :)
hahaha. You know, people laugh about Vlade, but he had great longevity for an NBA big man, until his back went out. He hardly missed any games with the Kings, not even when he was up most of the night trying to track friends and relatives in Yugoslavia, after the UN started bombing. That was a tough time for him and Peja. So Vlade must have been doing something right for his body, cigarettes, or no. ;)
 
#16
For all those speculating the Maloofs sold the 2nd round pick because they were desperate, Gavin gave a very legitimate answer here. Usually when Gavin is hit with a tough question, he usually stammers a bit. That was pretty smooth and came out without hesitation.
 
#17
For all those speculating the Maloofs sold the 2nd round pick because they were desperate, Gavin gave a very legitimate answer here. Usually when Gavin is hit with a tough question, he usually stammers a bit. That was pretty smooth and came out without hesitation.
It was a good answer and I don't think he liked being asked the question but the reasoning behind selling it was fine though there were other options then just selling it like trading it for a future second or whatever. The truth is we don't need another long term project second rounder right now we already have a few sitting on our roster... and a first round project or two... :p and we already are against the max roster if we resign our own free agents.
 
#18
Smart probably got if from Pop's. The Spurs have a summer plan, and have had one for some time. I don't know that they babysit their players, but they do monitor them. Since Smart was an assistant coach under Pop's, its no surprise. I also listened to a podcast of an interview with JT about his current freeagency, and why he suddenly seemed to have his best year last season. He said it was very difficult over the past four years with so many different coachs. Each one had their own agenda, and had a different role on the floor for him. Some wanted him to score more, and others didn't want him to shoot at all, but just to play defense and rebound. Some wanted him in the post, and others wanted him at the highpost.

So in short, it was hard for him to know just exactly what he should work on, to fit whatever program was in place at the time. Perfect example of why this team has been a mess for the last four or five years.
It would be brilliant if Smart took a lot more of his basketball philosophy from Pop as opposed to Nelson. That way we would be seeing a lot less small ball and some structure to his team and substitution patterns.
 
#19
It would be brilliant if Smart took a lot more of his basketball philosophy from Pop as opposed to Nelson. That way we would be seeing a lot less small ball and some structure to his team and substitution patterns.
Let's see this season play out before we start throwing this accusation around. Smart played a small lineup this year because we didn't have a NBA caliber small forward. It's not the first lineup he tried when he took over. I don't think we have any basis for saying it's a lineup he wants to run this season. He ran a three guard lineup out of desperation, because we had three guards with PERs over 16 and not a single SF who cracked 12 and two who didn't even crack 10.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#20
It would be brilliant if Smart took a lot more of his basketball philosophy from Pop as opposed to Nelson. That way we would be seeing a lot less small ball and some structure to his team and substitution patterns.
The more Smart wants to incorporate Pop into his coaching style and philosophy, the better. ESPECIALLY demanding that his players play defense. I'd like nothing better than Smart to go Pop and berate guys if they don't get back on defense, don't talk on defense, and don't swich properly. A little might go a long ways. Pop has very high standards; Smart need to have the same high expectations and respond accordingly if those expectations aren't met.

That said, Pop does play small ball when he thinks to his advantage. He's an opportunist of the best sort. He re-made his team into more of an offensive team to suit their strengths, and it was all to the better. If Smart utilizes Pop's pragmatism, fine by me.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#21
For all those speculating the Maloofs sold the 2nd round pick because they were desperate, Gavin gave a very legitimate answer here. Usually when Gavin is hit with a tough question, he usually stammers a bit. That was pretty smooth and came out without hesitation.
I tend to agree. I've been as tough as anyone on the Maloofs, but selling the second round pick doesn't really bother me.
 
#22
I tend to agree. I've been as tough as anyone on the Maloofs, but selling the second round pick doesn't really bother me.
Honestly, I think its an incredibly short sighted way to look at the role of the draft in a rebuild. The truth is we are not an attractive free agent nor demanded trade destination. It means we are not, nor may we ever be able to rebuild like the 5-10 spots that every NBA player wants to play. With that reality, our best bet is to rebuild through the draft and through stockpiling assets that allow us to trade for the parts we need. The midsize markets that have had success (OKC, SA, Port) have embraced this an actively sought extra picks, future picks, overseas players, etc. Selling a high second round pick with nothing coming back is a joke when there were so many other options that could have contributed more to an actual basketball team building strategy.
 

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#23
Honestly, I think its an incredibly short sighted way to look at the role of the draft in a rebuild. The truth is we are not an attractive free agent nor demanded trade destination. It means we are not, nor may we ever be able to rebuild like the 5-10 spots that every NBA player wants to play. With that reality, our best bet is to rebuild through the draft and through stockpiling assets that allow us to trade for the parts we need. The midsize markets that have had success (OKC, SA, Port) have embraced this an actively sought extra picks, future picks, overseas players, etc. Selling a high second round pick with nothing coming back is a joke when there were so many other options that could have contributed more to an actual basketball team building strategy.
Agreed. Like others have stated, it should have been swapped for a future 2nd rounder. Even if it isn't used later, it could be a trade asset at that point.
 
#25
It would be brilliant if Smart took a lot more of his basketball philosophy from Pop as opposed to Nelson. That way we would be seeing a lot less small ball and some structure to his team and substitution patterns.
I would really like to know how Smart was suppossed to play anything BUT small-ball last season. We had only two legitimate bigs IMO - Cousins and JT. Once either of them had to leave the game, small ball was the only option left to the Kings. Throw in the fact that all of our SF with any size stunk up the court more often than not, and it took away our options of going big at the 3 as well.

I'm not saying that Smart isn't a coach that likes small ball, but let's see what he does with a roster than actually has some size before jumping to that conclusion.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#26
I would really like to know how Smart was suppossed to play anything BUT small-ball last season. We had only two legitimate bigs IMO - Cousins and JT. Once either of them had to leave the game, small ball was the only option left to the Kings. Throw in the fact that all of our SF with any size stunk up the court more often than not, and it took away our options of going big at the 3 as well.

I'm not saying that Smart isn't a coach that likes small ball, but let's see what he does with a roster than actually has some size before jumping to that conclusion.
Somewhere Smart could ahve definitely gone bigger was not sitting JT and Cuz at the same exact time, often for extended periods. Many times I called for Smart to attempt to split their mins up as much as possible after the first stint of each half with the goal of having one on the floor as much as possible. I'm not referring to when either was in foul trouble either. Too often JT was pulled in the 1st, then Cuz a few mins later, then Cuz would return around the 5-6min mark of the 2nd, and JT wouldn't get back in until after halftime. Same type of thing in the 2nd half.

I agree Smart was hampered somewhat by the roster. But he'd also frequently go with 4 guards while in the game forums we're all asking where's Cuz and JT? And that wasn't after 3-4 mins of smallball while they're getting a rest, but after 9-10 mins where it seemed he often forgot about JT. He'd also forget about Reke many times, sit him through the half, and run IT/Jimmer at the same time. That's by choice, not roster limitation. He ran small in GS as well. We can all hope he'll go larger with a bigger roster and give him a chance, which is where we are and I'll hope for the best, but neither in GS nor here last year did he go bigger or more traditional when he could, so there's no evidence he will do it, just hope if we get more size.
 
Last edited:
#27
Somewhere Smart could ahve definitely gone bigger was not sitting JT and Cuz at the same exact time, often for extended periods. Many times I called for Smart to attempt to split their mins up as much as possible after the first stint of each half with the goal of having one on the floor as much as possible. I'm not referring to when either was in foul trouble either. Too often JT was pulled in the 1st, then Cuz a few mins later, then Cuz would return around the 5-6min mark of the 2nd, and JT wouldn't get back in until after halftime. Same type of thing in the 2nd half.

I agree Smart was hampered somewhat by the roster. But he'd also frequently go with 4 guards while in the game forums we're all asking where's Cuz and JT? And that wasn't after 3-4 mins of smallball while they're getting a rest, but after 9-10 mins where it seemed he often forgot about JT. He'd also forget about Reke many times, sit him through the half, and run IT/Jimmer at the same time. That's by choice, not roster limitation. He ran small in GS as well. We can all hope he'll go larger with a bigger roster and give him a chance, which is where we are and I'll hope for the best, but neither in GS nor here last year did he go bigger or more traditional when he could, so there's no evidence he will do it, just hope if we get more size.
I agree.

We also had WS who was supposed to be a project and yet we have put 0 time into so far and when he did start to get a few minutes he flourished. He was unable to unwilling to get one of IT MT or Reke to come off the bench so a vast majority of our offense stopped when the starters were subbed out by platoon. We had legitimate size on defense even if their offense was hurting at the SF position and we didn't play it even though we had 3 other positions wanting 20 points a night in the starting lineup we felt that offense was needed over defense.

Smart made a choice to go small last year and I expect him to make the same choice this year unless he is told who to play from on high. We made the roster excuse an out for very poor sub and lineup decisions by him.
 
#28
Somewhere Smart could ahve definitely gone bigger was not sitting JT and Cuz at the same exact time, often for extended periods. Many times I called for Smart to attempt to split their mins up as much as possible after the first stint of each half with the goal of having one on the floor as much as possible. I'm not referring to when either was in foul trouble either. Too often JT was pulled in the 1st, then Cuz a few mins later, then Cuz would return around the 5-6min mark of the 2nd, and JT wouldn't get back in until after halftime. Same type of thing in the 2nd half.

I agree Smart was hampered somewhat by the roster. But he'd also frequently go with 4 guards while in the game forums we're all asking where's Cuz and JT? And that wasn't after 3-4 mins of smallball while they're getting a rest, but after 9-10 mins where it seemed he often forgot about JT. He'd also forget about Reke many times, sit him through the half, and run IT/Jimmer at the same time. That's by choice, not roster limitation. He ran small in GS as well. We can all hope he'll go larger with a bigger roster and give him a chance, which is where we are and I'll hope for the best, but neither in GS nor here last year did he go bigger or more traditional when he could, so there's no evidence he will do it, just hope if we get more size.
Very well stated. I hope we don't see more of the same but I get the feeling he knows nothing else after so much time behind Nelson. Impress us Smart, Impress us.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#29
Somewhere Smart could ahve definitely gone bigger was not sitting JT and Cuz at the same exact time, often for extended periods. Many times I called for Smart to attempt to split their mins up as much as possible after the first stint of each half with the goal of having one on the floor as much as possible. I'm not referring to when either was in foul trouble either. Too often JT was pulled in the 1st, then Cuz a few mins later, then Cuz would return around the 5-6min mark of the 2nd, and JT wouldn't get back in until after halftime. Same type of thing in the 2nd half.

I agree Smart was hampered somewhat by the roster. But he'd also frequently go with 4 guards while in the game forums we're all asking where's Cuz and JT? And that wasn't after 3-4 mins of smallball while they're getting a rest, but after 9-10 mins where it seemed he often forgot about JT. He'd also forget about Reke many times, sit him through the half, and run IT/Jimmer at the same time. That's by choice, not roster limitation. He ran small in GS as well. We can all hope he'll go larger with a bigger roster and give him a chance, which is where we are and I'll hope for the best, but neither in GS nor here last year did he go bigger or more traditional when he could, so there's no evidence he will do it, just hope if we get more size.
So if you're playing devil's advocate with yourself: Why did Smart do what he did?
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#30
So if you're playing devil's advocate with yourself: Why did Smart do what he did?
I started trying to take a shot at this but couldn't even convince myself that I was doing a good job defending Smart's rotations with regards to the bigs.

Starting three guards I can see the justification even if I don't agree with it. IT created a tempo Smart wanted and increased the ball movement dramatically. And if you're going to start IT ideally you pair Tyreke with him in the backcourt and bring MT off the bench, but when you have no credible options at SF you might as well take your lumps and go with talent over fit. Again, I don't agree but I can make the argument.

With Cousins and JT it's harder to see. The Kings had few options for a third big. An undersized, offensively challenged and often injured Hayes, an inexperienced and lost looking Whiteside (who was in the NBDL for stretches anyway), a hugely inconsistent Hickson or throwing a SF like Outlaw or Greene in as a small ball, "stretch 4".

Without solid bench bigs you hold your nose and play a guy because you have to whether it's Hayes or Hickson. But WHY play both of them? Why not rest DMC and let JT slide to center and then rest JT when Cousins reenters? If a small ball lineup with Hickson/Hayes or one of them paired with Donte or Outlaw changed the pace of the game and put up points I could even understand. But it didn't. It just made the team weaker.