[Game] Game 77: Kings v. Timberwolves, 4/7/15 - 7pdt, 10edt

[sdballer]

What would mediocrity look like to you? Seriously what would you realistically done with the roster? Be realistic...

So how exactly would you judge a gm that turned over an entire roster and went through 3 coaches to have basically the same record and the desire to turn over most of that roster again?

The fact is we arguably had the same or deeper talent in the roster he took over. He didn't improve but failed to realize that and fired a coach to prove his point. When that backfired he still apparently resisted changing.

What's done is done. Through a combination of ignorance and arrogance, PDA dug his own grave. All that's left is for Vlade to bury him.

 

[jdbraver]

So how exactly would you judge a gm that turned over an entire roster and went through 3 coaches to have basically the same record and the desire to turn over most of that roster again?

The fact is we arguably had the same or deeper talent in the roster he took over. He didn't improve but failed to realize that and fired a coach to prove his point. When that backfired he still apparently resisted changing.

What's done is done. Through a combination of ignorance and arrogance, PDA dug his own grave. All that's left is for Vlade to bury him.

My comment was about the roster. He turned over the roster despite the limitations of existing salaries without tying to much future cap up. He got rudy, collison, and omri. Resigned rudy to a much better future salary. The roster was improved. But he made the mistake with the coaching situation which cost the team wins this season. He did eventually right the ship with karl. But again if u don't like karl my focus was on roster improvement not coach improvements

 

[Spike]

What would mediocrity look like to you? Seriously what would you realistically done with the roster? Be realistic...

Well, I wouldn't have fired the coach that was moving us at least towards mediocrity. He knew how to make the current roster competitive. You want realism? That's pretty much it. Don't rock the boat. Everyone else has tried to shoehorn a players into a style, as opposed to fitting a style around the players.

Looking at Utah, for example, they're at 36 wins. Almost 40. That's mediocre, and that's positive movement. That's "hey, progress!" This could have easily been attained, style be damned. We had a schedule that pretty much gifted us another 8-10 wins, putting us in Phoenix territory.

At the end of the season, maybe you move coaches to take it to the next level, but you sure as hell don't torpedo the team at the start. I still don't think Cousins has recovered emotionally.

We're currently stagnant, with Cousins arriving as a true dominant force as what is pretty much the only shining point. At least the FO that has been responsible for this cluster**** is being jettisoned, and Karl gets a blank slate next year, but damn, I'm tired of the carousel. The fans need stability as much as Cousins does. The clock is ticking, and Vivek has just one season to fix it, having wasted this one.

The good news is that I think Vivek learned from this. The bad news is that I'm not sure what his takeaway was.

 

[Spike]

My comment was about the roster. He turned over the roster despite the limitations of existing salaries without tying to much future cap up. He got rudy, collison, and omri. Resigned rudy to a much better future salary. The roster was improved. But he made the mistake with the coaching situation which cost the team wins this season. He did eventually right the ship with karl. But again if u don't like karl my focus was on roster improvement not coach improvements

He did turn the roster over, and, ignoring coaching (per your request - even though that's like trying to compare a 4cyl Mustang to a V8 - one part makes that much of a difference) that still means he's done a fair to poor job in that regard:

• Omri is an UFA - he brought in a player who wanted to be here (hint to future FO - you don't turn away solid free agents who actually want to be in Sacramento!)
• He resigned Rudy under false pretenses. It's tough to imagine Rudy resigning with us during this off-season, no? The main carrot (by most accounts) has been removed. Maaaybe Rudy comes back to play for Karl, but we'd certainly have to work a lot harder to keep him around, and without that early resigning, we're likely looking at a massive talent bleed.
• Collison was a good move at a good price. He's in the style of what this team needs, although it's too soon to tell if he'll be around, or if he's going to fit in with the future style of play.
• Sessions? I guess that he didn't pan out wasn't his fault, from a monetary standpoint anyway.
• DWill? Spin that one any way you like.
• McLemore? Stauskas? Drafting the same position two years in a row (sure, Stauskas was probably Vivek's call, but, when you're the GM...)
• Landry? Bad signing then, bad signing now.

Overall, I don't think the roster improved as much as you believe it did. In fact, if we look at the Kings roster at the end of 2012, despite its deficiencies at SF, there was more talent. It didn't mesh well, but that's a roster you can creatively trade for assets, but, as we all pretty much saw, PDA downgraded the roster except for the obvious acquisition of Gay (already mentioned).

 

[rhythmless]

My comment was about the roster. He turned over the roster despite the limitations of existing salaries without tying to much future cap up. He got rudy, collison, and omri. Resigned rudy to a much better future salary. The roster was improved. But he made the mistake with the coaching situation which cost the team wins this season. He did eventually right the ship with karl. But again if u don't like karl my focus was on roster improvement not coach improvements

By dangling Malone and then firing him after Rudy signed on the dotted line. Scumbaggery at its finest.

 

[gunks]

Yeah, as far as actual moves PDA has been hit and miss. I like that he's active, but it seems more like flailing about than anything with purpose..... I mean, going after Rondo and J-Smoove to "make a splash"? Really?

But when you factor in his weasely, double dealing, slimy nature.....

....Yeah, jettison the gerbil.

PDA also seems to be an enabler to all of Vivek's stupidity re: basketball decisions. We need a GM who won't have our owner's hand up his butt.

 

[pshn80]

Yeah, as far as actual moves PDA has been hit and miss. I like that he's active, but it seems more like flailing about than anything with purpose..... I mean, going after Rondo and J-Smoove to "make a splash"? Really?

But when you factor in his weasely, double dealing, slimy nature.....

....Yeah, jettison the gerbil.

PDA also seems to be an enabler to all of Vivek's stupidity re: basketball decisions. We need a GM who won't have our owner's hand up his butt.

With Divak there and if he is in charge, I don't see PDA doing that kind of stuff any more. IF he can be a useful tool to Vlade then he can stay and facilitate Vlade's wishes. Lots of IFs.

 

[Spike]

Divac.


Carry on.

 

[Tetsujin]

Divac.


Carry on.

Vlahdy Divak!

 

[Spike]

Vlahdy Divak!

For some reason I read that in a Harry Caray voice.

 

[jdbraver]

He did turn the roster over, and, ignoring coaching (per your request - even though that's like trying to compare a 4cyl Mustang to a V8 - one part makes that much of a difference) that still means he's done a fair to poor job in that regard:

• Omri is an UFA - he brought in a player who wanted to be here (hint to future FO - you don't turn away solid free agents who actually want to be in Sacramento!)
• He resigned Rudy under false pretenses. It's tough to imagine Rudy resigning with us during this off-season, no? The main carrot (by most accounts) has been removed. Maaaybe Rudy comes back to play for Karl, but we'd certainly have to work a lot harder to keep him around, and without that early resigning, we're likely looking at a massive talent bleed.
• Collison was a good move at a good price. He's in the style of what this team needs, although it's too soon to tell if he'll be around, or if he's going to fit in with the future style of play.
• Sessions? I guess that he didn't pan out wasn't his fault, from a monetary standpoint anyway.
• DWill? Spin that one any way you like.
• McLemore? Stauskas? Drafting the same position two years in a row (sure, Stauskas was probably Vivek's call, but, when you're the GM...)
• Landry? Bad signing then, bad signing now.

Overall, I don't think the roster improved as much as you believe it did. In fact, if we look at the Kings roster at the end of 2012, despite its deficiencies at SF, there was more talent. It didn't mesh well, but that's a roster you can creatively trade for assets, but, as we all pretty much saw, PDA downgraded the roster except for the obvious acquisition of Gay (already mentioned).

When did I say the roster improved by a lot? I said its hard to improve with the hand he originally was dealt. U also assume omri was begging to be here. How do u know? Even if he did in sure a lot of fringe NBA players beg to be on any team. PDA did make the selection to bring him on. U think keeping luc was much better than Dwill? And sorry if petey wanted someone other than stauskas and Vivek says no u think he is gonna win? What world are y living in? Do u blame Petrie the last few years when the Maloofs limited him?

 

[VF21]

U also assume omri was begging to be here. How do u know? Even if he did in sure a lot of fringe NBA players beg to be on any team.

He's not making an assumption about Omri. It was widely reported that Casspi wanted to return to the Kings.

 

[jdbraver]

He's not making an assumption about Omri. It was widely reported that Casspi wanted to return to the Kings.

I'm sure omri wanted to play anywhere that he could. I highly doubt he had sacramento as the only destination he was willing to play for.

 

[Spike]

When did I say the roster improved by a lot? I said its hard to improve with the hand he originally was dealt.

I missed this point. Even after re-reading. Maybe you could point it out to me. The tenor of your post, and the words "the roster was improved", clearly imply that you believe the roster was improved. Overall, I pointed out why I don't think that to be the case.

U also assume omri was begging to be here. How do u know? Even if he did in sure a lot of fringe NBA players beg to be on any team. PDA did make the selection to bring him on.

"My agent (Dan Fegan) is talking with a number of teams,” he said, “and the Kings are one of them. Couldn’t they use a stretch forward who can hit a three and loves to run? I think I could help, and it would be fun to play with Rudy (Gay), DeMarcus (Cousins), J.T. I still have a lot of friends there. I would love to come back and fulfill my path."
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article2604596.html#storylink=cpy

One among several articles during this time. It was widely accepted that Omri wanted Sacramento. Players don't openly want Sacramento. They want LA, NY, etc.

U think keeping luc was much better than Dwill? And sorry if petey wanted someone other than stauskas and Vivek says no u think he is gonna win? What world are y living in? Do u blame Petrie the last few years when the Maloofs limited him?

Being limited is different than being told to agree with someone.

 

[jdbraver]

I missed this point. Even after re-reading. Maybe you could point it out to me. The tenor of your post, and the words "the roster was improved", clearly imply that you believe the roster was improved. Overall, I pointed out why I don't think that to be the case.

"My agent (Dan Fegan) is talking with a number of teams,” he said, “and the Kings are one of them. Couldn’t they use a stretch forward who can hit a three and loves to run? I think I could help, and it would be fun to play with Rudy (Gay), DeMarcus (Cousins), J.T. I still have a lot of friends there. I would love to come back and fulfill my path."
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article2604596.html#storylink=cpy

One among several articles during this time. It was widely accepted that Omri wanted Sacramento. Players don't openly want Sacramento. They want LA, NY, etc.

Being limited is different than being told to agree with someone.

The team improved imo but not by leaps and bounds. My point once again is that PDA had his hands tied. and again do u consider Petrie a terrible GM under the last few Maloofs years?

 

[IfAt1st]

The team improved imo but not by leaps and bounds. My point once again is that PDA had his hands tied. and again do u consider Petrie a terrible GM under the last few Maloofs years?

Please stop.
You've already embarrassed yourself enough.

 

[Tetsujin]

The team improved imo but not by leaps and bounds. My point once again is that PDA had his hands tied. and again do u consider Petrie a terrible GM under the last few Maloofs years?

Well we're on pace for another 28 win season which would be the exact same record as last season (PDA's first year) and two seasons ago (Petrie's last, Maloof-addled year) so according to the results, this roster hasn't actually improved at all.

 

[VF21]

..."My agent (Dan Fegan) is talking with a number of teams,” he said, “and the Kings are one of them. Couldn’t they use a stretch forward who can hit a three and loves to run? I think I could help, and it would be fun to play with Rudy (Gay), DeMarcus (Cousins), J.T. I still have a lot of friends there. I would love to come back and fulfill my path."
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article2604596.html#storylink=cpy

Hrm...

 

[jdbraver]

Please stop.
You've already embarrassed yourself enough.

Ummm nope but thanks for your moronic advice.its a legitimate question but apparently instead of answering honestly you have decided to throw out childish insults. Congrats.

 

[jdbraver]

Well we're on pace for another 28 win season which would be the exact same record as last season (PDA's first year) and two seasons ago (Petrie's last, Maloof-addled year) so according to the results, this roster hasn't actually improved at all.

Now that probably has to do with the FO instability and coaching but not the actual roster.

 

[Kingston Jamaica]

I'm sure omri wanted to play anywhere that he could. I highly doubt he had sacramento as the only destination he was willing to play for.

My recollection is that Casspi was traded to NOP whith one year non-guaranteed contract. However, Casspi did not want to stay with NOP because he wanted a team in which he could play meaningful minutes and, subsequenly, he was waived. It apparently payed off.

 

[jdbraver]

My recollection is that Casspi was traded to NOP whith one year non-guaranteed contract. However, Casspi did not want to stay with NOP because he wanted a team in which he could play meaningful minutes and, subsequenly, he was waived. It apparently payed off.

But certainly wasn't aiming just for Sac bc we are special.