Well we'll unfortunately have to wait till the season to see won't we? You know, I used to be in the Willie camp. I remember that game right after we traded Cousins he came out and beasted. I was all ready to go into our future with him as our big man. But then we had this whole season and once again he showed me that he was more interested in trying to score in cute ways than he was in dominating defensively, rebounding the ball (we were near last in rebounds!) etc. You're right, he does work, he went for seal camp and whatnot, but it's always about him trying to be Porzingis rather than the player that we need.
Future of Willie Cauley-Stein?
- Thread starter sergmatt
- Start date
Well we'll unfortunately have to wait till the season to see won't we? You know, I used to be in the Willie camp. I remember that game right after we traded Cousins he came out and beasted. I was all ready to go into our future with him as our big man. But then we had this whole season and once again he showed me that he was more interested in trying to score in cute ways than he was in dominating defensively, rebounding the ball (we were near last in rebounds!) etc. You're right, he does work, he went for seal camp and whatnot, but it's always about him trying to be Porzingis rather than the player that we need.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
Why are you worrying about things that are so far off in the future? I am curious as to how Willie looks this season. A contract year generally brings about the best in a player and I want to see what Willie looks like at his best. We can totally give him a huge contract if he really does shine because Giles, Fox, and Bagley will be on rookie contracts for a while yet and it won't interfere too much.
Paying willie a huge contract would be huge mistake.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Apparently on July 24th he tweeted “Baggz Szn”... If I already didn’t have questions about him..
jcassio
Starter
Yeah, you're right, IF he continues to play at the level he's played at in the past. But if Willie plays at a higher level this year, then his next contract with the Kings will come down to:
a) how does he fit with our core players?
b) do we trust that he will not regress after "playing for a new contract" this year?
c) what will his market value be?
d) would somebody else want him so bad that it would force us to overpay (like Vlade did with LaVine)?
Sac.Kings
All-Star
Well by huge I don't mean max because he isn't a max player. But somewhere maybe around 15 million a year is good. It all really depends on how this season goes for him and for us. I think we have more talent on this team than we have had in a long time and Willie will either seize this opportunity or he won't. He will probably make quite a bit of a leap in terms of his pay regardless. He's no kwame brown.
I agree with the talent comment. Our core is really starting to take shape.
But Capela (who led the NBA in FG%) just got 80/5 plus incentives, or 16 a year. Willie is somewhere closer to an Alex Len 8.5/2 contract. We are talking about a "theoretical" good season. Even if he does have one good season, that doesn't mean he deserves that kind of dough. Just for pespective Kosta had a better defensive rating last year, and when he was getting pushed around, Kosta had to be subbed in for him.
Did you see the comment about bags season (above)? Did you see how high he was for the TMZ video? That is not a 15 million dollar a season player, nowhere even close.
He thinks he's the first option on offense, when IMO Willie is behind Giles right now. I would not be surprised if by the end of the season he is behind Giles and Bagley. Why would we pay 15 mil for our third best big? I don't see the logic.
When ppl talk about the core, it goes
Fox, Buddy, Bogi, Giles, Bagley, that is our core.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
So that’s the reason why he’s going hard in the gym? It’s an uncomfortable comment IMO
You believe what you choose to believe. I believe he's working hard because he wants to show that he's a part of these young Kings.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
What does that even mean?
Sac.Kings
All-Star
Capela was spoon fed buckets by the MVP of the league for most of his career. It's the same thing that DeAndre Jordan had with Chris Paul. Know what happened to him when Paul left? Had his worst season FG percentage wise since 2012. I'm not impressed with Capela's offense one bit, it's called set a screen and roll to the hoop or get buckets off of misses. Harden's wizadry at getting to the basket is what gets those easy looks.
Alex Len? The guy whose best season was 9ppg and 6.5 boards? I surely hope you're kidding. Pretty sure multiple people especially Bajaden have pointed out that WCS and KK had the same defensive rating so technically no, KK wasn't the better defender. I can guarantee you that Willie is not behind Giles. I love Giles but the best thing for him is to come off the bench and be brought along as the season continues.
I will say this. If Willie has a great season you stated he is not deserving of a great contract. Why? He would have shown improvement in every season that he's been in the league, why wouldn't you reward him?
Capela had 1.8 blks per game as opposed to willie's .9 (thats double), but I guess he was spoon fed blocks too rite?
Baja? The person that told me to have a heart-to-heart w/willie? Yeah, he mentioned that willie and kk took turns having higher defensive ratings, but kk was better last year (which is exactly what I said). My point is he's not even better than kosta who is slightly overpaid at 8 million per.
One outlier season should not be heavily rewarded, why should it. Improve every year. Not hard when he only pulls down 7 boards a game (which is sad because you scoff at Alex Len's 6.5 a game). Oh and I also wasn't the first to suggest a Len-type salary (and I doubt I'll be the last).
Willie is not part of the core because if he was we wouldn't have gone with Bagley (and Giles).
Can Willie be good? Absolutely.
Can Willie be great? Maybe, but nothing he has shkwn me in three years (that we won't see in year four) will lead me to believe he will.
I can only go back-and-forth so much about a third (option) big that is not part of the core, but don't worry he will have many options soon, of the top of my mind
1. Fourth or fifth big on another team
2. Europe
3. Painting
4. Designing clothes
I see all these as way more probable than keeping him on what you call a huge contract.
Baja? The person that told me to have a heart-to-heart w/willie? Yeah, he mentioned that willie and kk took turns having higher defensive ratings, but kk was better last year (which is exactly what I said). My point is he's not even better than kosta who is slightly overpaid at 8 million per.
One outlier season should not be heavily rewarded, why should it. Improve every year. Not hard when he only pulls down 7 boards a game (which is sad because you scoff at Alex Len's 6.5 a game). Oh and I also wasn't the first to suggest a Len-type salary (and I doubt I'll be the last).
Willie is not part of the core because if he was we wouldn't have gone with Bagley (and Giles).
Can Willie be good? Absolutely.
Can Willie be great? Maybe, but nothing he has shkwn me in three years (that we won't see in year four) will lead me to believe he will.
I can only go back-and-forth so much about a third (option) big that is not part of the core, but don't worry he will have many options soon, of the top of my mind
1. Fourth or fifth big on another team
2. Europe
3. Painting
4. Designing clothes
I see all these as way more probable than keeping him on what you call a huge contract.
sactowndog
All-Star
I guarantee you members of the Kings front office feel Giles is currently better than Willie
sactowndog
All-Star
Haha. Glad to know I’m not the only un-cool person on this board thinking what?!
Because he is better, a whole lot better.
King Baller
All-Star
Its funny, I'm not worried that Willie has varied interests. When training camp time is here as long as he is all ball then why does it matter? Of course he needs to stay in shape and work on his game. But why can't a young fella show some interest in other facets of life during the off season?
It is like some folks always need someone to pick at. This season it is Willie. Not because of what he is, but because of all the things he is not.
It is like some folks always need someone to pick at. This season it is Willie. Not because of what he is, but because of all the things he is not.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
Presumably: ‘Tis the season for getting (money) bags. IOW, this is the season to earn that huge contract.
Willie is a very common player archetype in NBA history. He plays because he’s tall and athletic, not out of some sheer love and thirst for the game. Which is fine. And, you love having those guys at $40M/4. You begrudgingly match at $52M/4. North of that becomes an uncomfortable overpay.
But, given the makeup of the board commentariat, some of the unmitigated support for Willie is surprising. If one has been around the game for a period of time, you know the player Willie is. And, again, it’s fine. He’s going to have a long NBA career. It’s a job. He doesn’t need to love it. But the point is, he has all the physical tools to be the player he always talks about being. If he truly had the drive he says he has, then he would be further along in his development, irrespective of when he focused on basketball as a high schooler. There’s a chance he does put it all together this season and never looks back, but that would make him an extreme outlier. Some would like to hold out hope for that, and that’s fine, but it’s not a probable outcome.
All that said, I love WCS the person and wish him the best. He’s a good dude.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Len is a much better rebounder than WCS. It's not even close. He gets a rebound every 2.7 minutes of play; WCS gets a rebound every 4 minutes of play. Len is also a much better shot blocker per minute of play than WCS.
miltonap
Starter
Working on mastering his craft.
I honestly think it's cool that he has other interests like painting. I think he's a pretty unique guy. I don't think it's wrong for players to have interests outside of sports. Fox and Bogie play video games, if Willie played video games we'd probably be saying the same thing for that.
Willie just needs to put consistent effort on the court. He can paint all he wants, I don't care.
Telemachus
Starter
During CJ's podcast, he and KD talked about needed hobbies or interests outside of basketball. If your brain doesn't get a break once in a while you start to go stir crazy.
miltonap
Starter
Yea I mean in the end we all got hobbies that entertain us
I think it's about the image more than the fact that he has other interests. Don't think I need to elaborate, nor is it particularly fair to the guy, but anybody can tell you that people are judged superficially based on the image of themselves that they present, and if fortunate enough, by their body of work. Willie does himself no favours in either of those regards.
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kingsboi
Hall of Famer
He is allowed to have other interests beside basketball, the problem is when basketball is second to the hobby, that's where the real issue here is.
Blob
Starter
Glad you liked it .
Blob
Starter
Sorry but as someone who goes beast mode in the gym his physique is scrawny. Willie has little definition in his back shoulders core or arms. He should have 20-30 more pounds of muscle and he hasn't put in the work. Skal and Giles are way more ripped. Willie is doing deadlifts with 40 lb dumbbells? Give me a break. That's nothing. Now if Willie fancies himself to be a perimeter Kevin Durant-like player, then this type of physique would make sense. But we all know he's not skilled enough be a face up perimeter oriented player. He either intentionally has not added sufficient muscle because he thinks it will slow him down or he's not working hard enough. I tend to think the latter.
Blob
Starter
It is bizarre. He says he doesn't go for block shots because he thinks he will break his finger on the rim. No big men in the history of the game has seemingly felt this way until Willie. You prevent the same injury from recurring by increasing your court awareness. You recognize when you are under the rim and go vertical you could hit your hand. We should not need to have this discussion or concern. This guy is so soft if he cannot get past this past and be an aggressive rim protector. Get rid of him, Vlade.
Blob
Starter
Baggz Szn - Bagley's Season?
I interpret it to mean the Kings drafted Bagley to play over him.
Stress plus rest equals growth. This pertains to any endeavor: mental, physical, creative. LeBron spends over one million per year on recovery regimen, including cryo-chambers and the like. You go hard outside your comfort zone then you step away and consolidate those gains. The hardest part for extreme athletes is often not the training itself, it is allowing themselves downtime to heal and come back stronger. There is a science and art to this. So yeah Willie has time to fingerpaint. But I don't think he is stressing himself enough to achieve the growth he needs to be a first string center. For those who may not remember, two years ago Willie came to camp out of shape. He admitted as much and vowed to not let it happen again. So it is not speculative whether his work ethic is not where it needs to be. There is a track record of inadequate effort. I don't see this as a problem with guys I think will take his minutes: Bagley, Giles and Skal.
RichieInRocklin
G-League
Rosey Grier, one of the greats on the L.A. Rams "Fearsome Foursome" had an unusual hobby for men of needlepoint, knitting and macrame and it never interfered with his game. Hobbies can be very beneficial to athletics (and even non-athletics) in their down time away from the game. But like was said above, it's great as long as it doesn't interfere with training and the game.
Go Kings!!!
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