Future of Vlade

[dude12]

He shot 3’s at a high percentage and was a quality back up point.

Didn’t want to be here, became somewhat toxic although the team and players said he stayed professional. I’m of the opinion that if a guy doesn’t want to be here, show him the door.

 

[datamanwes]

Only Kings fans would call waiting until virtually all the unrestricted free agents are off the board a rush to judgement.

For what it’s worth, Jackson while looking marginally better still shot 31.9% from 3 for summer league. That doesn’t get it done for a 3 and D player. Journalists and NBA execs were incredulous that Vlade insists Bagley can play the three. We have a serious hole at 3 Vlade has done nothing to address.

Making judgements before the game is over or even the off season is a rush to judgement. I may agree with you if nothing is happens by the start of the season but not now

 

[jcassio]

Not knee jerk at all. He cleared space to sign a contributing free agent and failed. Targets were there who wouldn’t be matched for a number of reasons: McDermott, Hezonja, Anderson, Parker. Vlade struck out on all of them. At some point he has to be held accountable for lack of performance.

When one looks for the worst in people, they generally find it.

 

[sergmatt]

His moves have been a mixed bag over the last few prior years. He's made a couple of real blunders in trades and signings but also made some good draft picks and signings (such as Vince Carter to mentor.) I like the overall direction of the team and that Vlade is trying to build a team of high character hard working guys with good team chemistry.

However Vlade's job security will end up coming down to whether he made the right draft choice picking Bagley over Luka Doncic.

I (and many) believe he made a huge mistake passing on Doncic and if that does turn out to be the case at the end of next season then Vlade absolutely must be fired. When you're picking 2nd in a strong draft you have to hit a homerun and draft a franchise changing impact player. You just have to,mistakes like that set you back years. If Doncic is that (and just flat out better than Bagley ) than Vlade has gotta go. With that said who knows maybe he got it right and outsmarted everyone. Dallas has surrounded Luka with finishers so I think we'll have a pretty good idea next spring if Vlade missed out on him.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Yep, I don’t agree with you at all. They said they wanted these vets to help build and show the youngsters how to be professionals and to change the mindset in this organization. You may not agree with this but it’s hard to put into monetary worth except I believe having Temple, Carter, Zbo has been invaluable.

Wait & see.

Perks would of been nice.

If nothing develops, admit the mistake. If all of a sudden several do, then great. Probably will know by the end of next season.

Me I'm a odds man, give me the loot. So I'd rather have picks in the hand.

 

[Warhawk]

I love everyone who insists Vlade must be fired if MBIII isn't the second best player at the end of the year. By that metric, Anyone who didn't draft Tyreke before we got him should have been fired as well.

 

[lwc]

Too early to put Fox or Bagley in the win column. Probably Harry too but I so love his unselfish all around game I call him a win also.

In a redraft I saw Fox was selected 12th. Hard to call that a win when you picked 5.

If I'm picking 12 in that redraft I might pee my pants with excitement if Fox falls to me at 12

 

[sergmatt]

I love everyone who insists Vlade must be fired if MBIII isn't the second best player at the end of the year. By that metric, Anyone who didn't draft Tyreke before we got him should have been fired as well.

He doesnt have to be the 2nd best player in the draft when it's all said and done but he better at least appear to be better than Doncic at the end of this season. He also better appear to be a major impact player going forward.

Is that timeline completely fair? No not entirely but it's reality and in part due to Vlade's own words and actions (trading away 2019 pick).

Comes with the territory and its time to put up or shut-up. Doncic was the consensus #1 or #2 talent in the draft. Vlade went against the consensus. That's fine if he got it right. If he didnt we know what's coming.

 

[sactowndog]

No. I didn't say that, my point is that when I watch those individuals play I don't have red flags going off in my head like watching T. Robinson play for example. Fox is a freakin gamer he loves to compete the rest will fall in place with time. Justin too I can tell he's always been very well coached he just needs the burn time.

Perhaps, I certainly haven’t written them off. But at this point neither Fox or Jackson would be redrafted in the spots.

 

[sactowndog]

If I'm picking 12 in that redraft I might pee my pants with excitement if Fox falls to me at 12

Perhaps but if you were 5 and drafted him with what you know now you would be run out of towns on rails. Of course after one year things can change but at the one year mark it’s not looking like a great pick at 5.

 

[sactowndog]

When one looks for the worst in people, they generally find it.

Yes and when someone keeps excusing poor performance it’s generally equally bad. Now to be fair I said if the young players (particularly the 17 picks) don’t look good should he be fired. His inability to fine free agent help is an undisputable fact.

 

[Suicide King]

Here's a mindblowing thing I just came across. Look at the top prospects we were able to bring out under each GM. Pete D. vs Vlade

Look at Pete D in 2013 when we picked #7
- CJ McCollum
- Cody Zeller
- Steven Adams
- Trey Burke
- Michael Carter Williams
- Shabazz Muhammad
- Archie Goodwin
- Tony Snell

2014 when we picked #8
- Marcus Smart
- Elfrid Payton
- Noah Vonleh
- Zach LaVine
- Rodney Hood
- Tyler Ennis
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Look at Vlade in 2015 when we picked #5:
- Willie Cauely-Stein
- Frank Kaminsky
- Cameron Payne

2016, we picked #8
- Wade Baldwin IV

2017, we picked #5 and #10
- DeAaron Fox
- Zach Collins
- Donovan Mitchell
- Justin Jackson

2018, we picked #2
- Marvin Bagley
- Wendall Carter Jr


This is clearly a Vlade trend!!!!!! He has negatively impacted our team! There's a freaking myth out there about draft prospects refusing to come to Sacramento because it's Sacramento. NO, it's because of Vlade. We have never had a history of struggling to bring in draft prospects. FFS, "the gerbil" was able to bring in more talent to Sacramento than Vlade has!

What are your thoughts on the fact that under Pete D, we drafted zero of those prospects you listed. Under Vlade, aside from 2016 #8 when he nabbed Bogdan, we drafted at least one of the guys, two in 2017 ( Giles was a lucky break) , that Vlade brought in.

Maybe he and the F.O. knew they didn't need to cast as wide a net to draft who they knew they wanted? Again, of the players you listed, Pete D and that F.O. drafted none of the players brought in to work out.

Not so much defending Vlade, rather pointing out that Pete D'Alessandro might not be the best example for your case against Vlade.

Just food for thought.

 

[EIM86]

As long as its 2 steos forward I think we will retain him

 

[sactowndog]

Well then....that settles it. If there was a redraft on the internet.

By the way, of course I don’t know your feelings on Fox when he was drafted, but he was OVERWELMINLY the fan favorite at 5. So much so that people were absolutely giddy when the Celtics stupidly picked Tatum at 3. Cheers erupted when Jackson went 4. I can certainly see the second guessing over passing on Docic over Bagley because we have fox on the roster, but seems pretty tough to give Vlade crap over drafting Fox at the time.

By what measure would you call drafting Fox successful so far?

Members of the all Rookie team:
Ball (2)
Tatum (3)
Jackson (4)
Markennan (6)
Smith (9)
Mitchell (13)
Collins (19)

Perhaps you want to use his advanced stats net rating among rookies: 88th

Or 7th in points among rookie guards
Or 5th in assists among rookie guards

Can he get better? Sure he can but at the moment he doesn’t come close to justifying the 5th pick. And whether the fans loved him or not is irrelevant. Vlade’s job is to draft the best players for the spot in the draft. The final stanza isn’t written yet but by the end of next year it will be much closer.

 

[Suicide King]

When one looks for the worst in people, they generally find it.

I also, have faults.

 

[sactowndog]

He doesnt have to be the 2nd best player in the draft when it's all said and done but he better at least appear to be better than Doncic at the end of this season. He also better appear to be a major impact player going forward.

Is that timeline completely fair? No not entirely but it's reality and in part due to Vlade's own words and actions (trading away 2019 pick).

Comes with the territory and its time to put up or shut-up. Doncic was the consensus #1 or #2 talent in the draft. Vlade went against the consensus. That's fine if he got it right. If he didnt we know what's coming.

I think the telling point will be how Jackson, Fox and Giles look. One year will be too soon on Bagley but if Jackson and Fox don’t take a step forward.....

 

[Suicide King]

I love everyone who insists Vlade must be fired if MBIII isn't the second best player at the end of the year. By that metric, Anyone who didn't draft Tyreke before we got him should have been fired as well.

This is my only qualm with what is seemingly the basic premise of the current TDOS annual pitchfork festival.

To expect results so quickly in a young players career or the guy who believed in them should be run out of town is shortsighted to me. We are not hoisting the trophy anytime soon. Why is this next season the end all be all for our GM's tenure again?

Instead of watching the F.O. so intently, since Vlade took the helm under duress, I am keeping my eyes focused on our squad that laces them up.
Way too soon for anything definitively to be said pro or con.

We are all tired of waiting, even those of us who tend not to post anything negative.

 

[Telemachus]

Perhaps, I certainly haven’t written them off. But at this point neither Fox or Jackson would be redrafted in the spots.

Any redraft done sooner than at least 3 years is a waste of time IMO.

 

[sactowndog]

Any redraft done sooner than at least 3 years is a waste of time IMO.

I would agree any final judgement after 3 years is a bit too soon but after year 2 you do start to have a good idea.

 

[Section 101]

I would agree any final judgement after 3 years is a bit too soon but after year 2 you do start to have a good idea.

Gary Payton was a bust in year 3. How did that turn out?

 

[Telemachus]

Gary Payton was a bust in year 3. How did that turn out?

So was Steve Nash.

 

[sactowndog]

Gary Payton was a bust in year 3. How did that turn out?

Do you often try to make a point by citing outliers? Yes some people do take longer than a year. Hassan Whiteside comes to mind. I think Skal is in the same boat which is why I wouldn’t trade him. But in general you have a good idea after year true. Nothing about in general says absolutely in all cases.

 

[Telemachus]

Do you often try to make a point by citing outliers? Yes some people do take longer than a year. Hassan Whiteside comes to mind. I think Skal is in the same boat which is why I wouldn’t trade him. But in general you have a good idea after year true. Nothing about in general says absolutely in all cases.

Actually, with PGs and centers, it is normal for it to take 3 or 4 years to see what you have. Probably the most difficult positions to learn to play.

 

[ApolloDaGod]

I am absolutely satisfied with the Kings current state knowing where we came from. Viva Vlade.

 

[Warhawk]

He doesnt have to be the 2nd best player in the draft when it's all said and done but he better at least appear to be better than Doncic at the end of this season.

Why?

 

[sactowndog]

Interesting and relevant article

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/author/james-ham

 

[TaxMan]

I would agree any final judgement after 3 years is a bit too soon but after year 2 you do start to have a good idea.

Yes, but you are making judgement after year 1. I feel like you anticipate fox won’t give you a good feeling after year 2 that you think will provide you evidence of your final judgement after year 3, so might as well conclude now (kinda makes your head spin, huh....)

 

[sactowndog]

Yes, but you are making judgement after year 1. I feel like you anticipate fox won’t give you a good feeling after year 2 that you think will provide you evidence of your final judgement after year 3, so might as well conclude now (kinda makes your head spin, huh....)

Try not to extrapolate to things I didn’t say.

1) I started the thread saying if after this year, given the free agent performance, the young kids don’t show real improvement

2) I was responding to others who concluded that Fox was a good draft pick and would be a solid starter/near all star, that nothing in the data of year one would support that conclusion.

Does that mean I am convinced Fox has no chance to be good? Of course not, he had Games last year that were encouraging where he got in the paint and set up open shooters. But he has to show real measurable progress this year.

 

[TaxMan]

Try not to extrapolate to things I didn’t say.

1) I started the thread saying if after this year, given the free agent performance, the young kids don’t show real improvement

2) I was responding to others who concluded that Fox was a good draft pick and would be a solid starter/near all star, that nothing in the data of year one would support that conclusion.

Does that mean I am convinced Fox has no chance to be good? Of course not, he had Games last year that were encouraging where he got in the paint and set up open shooters. But he has to show real measurable progress this year.

Ok. Fair enough. I thought you were pointing out Year one stats to conclude you don’t think he will be successful but I guess that’s not what you meant.

 

[sergmatt]

Why?

To save Vlade's job