From the "Well, that sucks" annals...

[VF21]

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2006/05/28/nowitzki_was_driving_force/

Here's the pertinent excerpt from the article:

Harm, but no foul
Fresh from the Too Little, Too Late Dept. comes word that the NBA rescinded the technical foul against San Antonio's Michael Finley in the second quarter of Game 4 in Dallas. Finley was called for a technical with 4:44 remaining in the half, and it appeared to be borderline at best.

"You can imagine what I wanted to say when I heard that," said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, who found out about the decision Thursday. "Does that mean we win the game by 1 point?"

Game 4, which was played May 15, went into overtime, and the Mavericks prevailed, 123-118, so the technical was huge. (Dirk Nowitzki made the free throw.)

For Finley, it means he won't have to fork over $1,000 to the league. For the Spurs, it means yet another tough break in a series they just as easily could have won.

I can't even begin to imagine how I would have felt as a Spurs fan to see that announcement.

Interesting how it was buried in the third page online on an article primarily written to praise Nowitzki.

 

[HndsmCelt]

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2006/05/28/nowitzki_was_driving_force/

Here's the pertinent excerpt from the article:



I can't even begin to imagine how I would have felt as a Spurs fan to see that announcement.

Interesting how it was buried in the third page online on an article primarily written to praise Nowitzki.

OUCH!

 

[DocHolliday]

Well at least the league admitted a mistake. Everyone always complaines how when the NBA or NFL makes a mistak officiating, and they know it, they don't admit it. It can't change the outcome of the game now, but at least they admitted it. Baby steps for the league.

 

[VF21]

Yeah, they admitted it. But I have the strong feeling that doesn't help Spurs fans any.

There has to be some kind of review policy for those kinds of calls. It was called a technical but the replay sure didn't show it to be one. I know you can't have challenges to every single call that's made but perhaps it's time to allow teams in the NBA to have the "red flag challenge" like the NFL. The outcome of a game should not hinge on an official's error, especially when it was so clear right from the beginning that it wasn't a good call.

I'm just glad this isn't a Spurs board.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

:: starts a "San Antonio got screwed" campaign ::

 

[DocHolliday]

Oh, hell no it doesn't help spurs fan. It will never make the fan of the team that gets screwed feel any better. But, we all complain that they never admit it. We can still be pissed when they do admit it, but at least they are admitting it.

I'd be up for the each team to haev 3 reviews a half at their disposal.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm inclined to think this barely matters given that there were still 5 minutes left in the game and 1 point could still be made up if necessary in a host of other ways if a team knows they need it. Kind of like Samaki's 3 pointer that never really happened, even though you would think without those 3 points the game would have been entirely out of reach.

The NBA has actually apologized for bad calls that altered the final possession of close games before but as far as I know they've never changed a W to a L and vice versa.

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh, hell no it doesn't help spurs fan. It will never make the fan of the team that gets screwed feel any better. But, we all complain that they never admit it. We can still be pissed when they do admit it, but at least they are admitting it.

I'd be up for the each team to have 3 reviews a half at their disposal.

Just slow it down too much unfortunately.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm inclined to think this barely matters given that there were still 5 minutes left in the game and 1 point could still be made up if necessary in a host of other ways if a team knows they need it...

But, we'll never know. *Maybe* the Mavericks would have made up that point regardless... *Maybe* that technical changed the whole complexion of the game.

We certainly don't know for a fact that the technical made the difference, but we also don't know for a fact that it didn't... The only thing that we know is that the game was tied at the end of regulation, and that technical free throw had *something* to do with the fact that it *was* tied.

 

[captain bill]

It sucks, but nothing can be done. 48 minutes, hundreds of points, 7 games. Missed calls matter, yeah, but call and non-calls will always go both ways and teams will always have to play through them. Sometimes it hurts more than others, but it's part of the game. Champions play throught them, those who don't go home. Spurs can only blame themselves for letting the game go to OT (that T is no excuse for bad defense or missed shots), losing in OT, and losing 3 other games.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

But, we'll never know. *Maybe* the Mavericks would have made up that point regardless... *Maybe* that technical changed the whole complexion of the game.

We certainly don't know for a fact that the technical made the difference, but we also don't know for a fact that it didn't... The only thing that we know is that the game was tied at the end of regulation, and that technical free throw had *something* to do with the fact that it *was* tied.

But so did every other call that was or wasn't made during the game. Maybe one or two got by that should or shouldn't have. Who really cares, what's done is done.

 

[fishstick05]

But, we'll never know. *Maybe* the Mavericks would have made up that point regardless... *Maybe* that technical changed the whole complexion of the game.

We certainly don't know for a fact that the technical made the difference, but we also don't know for a fact that it didn't... The only thing that we know is that the game was tied at the end of regulation, and that technical free throw had *something* to do with the fact that it *was* tied.

That's my opinion of these matters. You can't just add or detract from the final score because of something that happened earlier in the game. It may have cause a different strategy or shot selection from a team.

 

[DocHolliday]

Just slow it down too much unfortunately.

Ok Ok 2. That won't slow the game down that much. At most what 3 minutes a review?

So at worst you'd be at 12 minutes longer a half. 28 minutes total if all 4 were used. Turns it into a 3 hour game. Not that bad.

 

[Viking]

and they didn't even need Ralph Nader.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

But so did every other call that was or wasn't made during the game. Maybe one or two got by that should or shouldn't have. Who really cares, what's done is done.

I bet that you wouldn't be saying that if it'd happened to the Kings...

 

[VF21]

The technology exists to provide fairly rapid review of this type of thing. There could be challenges under certain guidelines. It could be done. People swore it would kill football and it's actually worked very well.

The main thing is there is a way to right these kinds of wrongs. And the entire league would benefit from it. Teams should win because of how they played, not because an official made a bad call.

This is an opportunity for the league to review this type of thing. It doesn't happen every game. AND I honestly think if the officials knew the challenge existed, they might confer with each other a little more before making a ruling.

I did notice several times during the ECF that the officials actually took a moment or two to discuss calls. THAT could help immensely.

And, in the case of a technical, the review could actually be done at the next commerical break. If it was determined to be correct, no problem. If it was determined to be in error, then the additional point - if one was scored - could be taken off. The clock is stopped anyway when technicals are shot AND there's no chance of rebounding, so I suspect the actual impact would be minimal.

 

[Evenstar]

But, we'll never know. *Maybe* the Mavericks would have made up that point regardless... *Maybe* that technical changed the whole complexion of the game.

We certainly don't know for a fact that the technical made the difference, but we also don't know for a fact that it didn't... The only thing that we know is that the game was tied at the end of regulation, and that technical free throw had *something* to do with the fact that it *was* tied.

perfectly said slim, i agree 100%

the spurs got screwed!

i suggested this on the spurs board, perhaps the mavs deserve a nice asterick * phil jackson sent it over

 

[quick dog]

Kings fans know exactly how they must feel. I submit that San Antonio fans have little idea of how Kings fans felt after the WC finals against Los Angeles a few years ago. Take your pick of games.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I bet that you wouldn't be saying that if it'd happened to the Kings...

I pointed out where it had happened to the Kings actually. And no I don't run around crying about Walker's shot and "put an asterisk on the Lakers championship" because of it.

If it was a bogus or completely wrong call with no time on the clock or that changed possession in a one possesion game with the shot clock off I might be more inclined to care. It wasn't even the deciding game of the series we're talking about here, it was game 4 of the series for crying out loud.

 

[VF21]

It was a call that shouldn't have happened. There should be accountability for those kinds of things. We shouldn't just shrug and say it didn't matter...because every wrong call matters. If they can find a way to prevent/correct those kinds of things from happening, everyone benefits.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Bad calls are part of the game, of course anything within reason to remove them is welcomed, like the review of shots at the buzzer. Maybe that would be appropriate for things like determining posession of loose balls knocked out of bounds or if a defender was in the no-charge circle but aside from that almost every other call is up to the referees discretion to begin with, especially technicals. The NFL doesn't even allow reviews of penalties so I can't see why the NBA would take that step.

 

[Superman]

I bet that you wouldn't be saying that if it'd happened to the Kings...

I might be. Can't know until I'm in the situation.

But I am inclined to agree that one bad call - game-changing or not - can't be looked at as the reason that a team loses a game. It's like the old saying goes: don't let the game be so close that the refs can affect the outcome in that way.

pdxKingsFan brought up the Samaki Walker three-pointer in Game 4 of the 2002 WCF. We can say that if the refs had waived the shot off, we would have won by two points, but that's not necessarily the case. Yes, it was a bad call, and yes the game wound up being tight, but bottom line is that we didn't lose that game because of that call. It's unrealistic to look at that one shot and say that it cost us the game.

It's a bit of a different situation, but I don't think this is any different than a phantom foul call in the second quarter that costs a team a point or two. The only difference is that the League can rescind a foul technical foul after the fact.

The Spurs did get screwed, but I don't think they got screwed out of the game, or the series. It's just one point in a seven game series.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

pdxKingsFan brought up the Samaki Walker three-pointer in Game 4 of the 2002 WCF.

To the best of my recollection, the NBA has never officially acknowledged that that shot shouldn't have counted. Unless they have, it's not the same thing.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

To the best of my recollection, the NBA has never officially acknowledged that that shot shouldn't have counted. Unless they have, it's not the same thing.

I'm almost absolutely certain that shot specifically was cited as one of the reasons why they added the replay review (in the following season, if I remember right). Either way, they definitely acknowledged it.

 

[Superman]

To the best of my recollection, the NBA has never officially acknowledged that that shot shouldn't have counted. Unless they have, it's not the same thing.

Doesn't necessarily have to be the same thing. The point is that one moment in the middle of the game didn't necessarily sway the outcome of the game.

I mean, we can venture down the "Butterfly Effect" road if we want to, but in reality, a bad call in the second quarter of a playoff game doesn't screw a team out of a win. I mean, that happens in every playoff game.

Now, if you're saying that the fact that the NBA acknowledged its mistake makes the situation different, then I agree. But it still doesn't necessarily make a difference in the outcome of the game. The NBA doesn't have to acknowledge its mistakes for us to know that the refs make bogus calls all the time.

 

[thesanityannex]

Spurs fans have known about this for at least a week. Most of them griped about it the first day, but have long since forgotten about it.

 

[T[MaC]]

pdxKingsFan brought up the Samaki Walker three-pointer in Game 4 of the 2002 WCF.

 

[Bricklayer]

Football has natural breaks in the action that have always made it practical. Basketball does not with any consistency. About the only thing you could consistently overrule during the breaks which you CAN count on (the quarters) would be toe on the line 3 pointers etc. (and even that not in the final quarter when it would change strategy). Otherwise you either have to repeatedly stop play -- a disaster to the flow of the game -- or wait to change something later that would have had a definite impact on the game in realtime. No good way to do it.

 

[BigSong]

Spurs are an old and tired team, didnt deserve to win the series bad call or not.

 

[kingkung]

Spurs are an old and tired team, didnt deserve to win the series bad call or not.

As I remember, they were 3 points ahead in Game 7 with 21 seconds left, and had a chance to win the game at the buzzer. I say it could've gone either way.