Free Agency Open Thread (NBA and Kings!)

I assume were going to be starting something like this,

Hill
Hield
Bogdan
ZBO
WCS

?????

Doesn't look like a bad lineup and there is actually some experience in there. Might be a bit small but in today's basketball I doubt it would matter much.
 
Minor Public Service Announcement:

There was a lot of talk today, both in this thread and others, about us possibly reserving the MLE to sign Bogdanovic to leave us enough cap space to offer a max deal to Porter even after agreeing to contracts with both Hill and Randolph. That was never a possibility, because this year we don't have an MLE available. The MLE disappears as soon as you dip below the salary cap, which, of course, we did. Sure, we had a bunch of cap holds keeping us above the salary cap for a while, but we had to renounce them to access our cap space to sign...Hill and Randolph. Instead, because we dipped down below the salary cap, we instead have the "Room Exception" available. That exception is $4.328M, for a max of two years, and a max raise of 5%.

Basically, as soon as we agreed to the contracts with Hill and Randolph, the Porter offer sheet was DOA. I would imagine that Porter informed us he would be going with the Nets' offer, which is why we moved on the other free agents, but we may never know. Still, the idea that an aging Zach Randolph is such a great commodity as to convince us to end our pursuit of Porter seems silly to me. Odds are Porter said "Thanks, but no thanks" and we moved on.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Minor Public Service Announcement:

There was a lot of talk today, both in this thread and others, about us possibly reserving the MLE to sign Bogdanovic to leave us enough cap space to offer a max deal to Porter even after agreeing to contracts with both Hill and Randolph. That was never a possibility, because this year we don't have an MLE available. The MLE disappears as soon as you dip below the salary cap, which, of course, we did. Sure, we had a bunch of cap holds keeping us above the salary cap for a while, but we had to renounce them to access our cap space to sign...Hill and Randolph. Instead, because we dipped down below the salary cap, we instead have the "Room Exception" available. That exception is $4.328M, for a max of two years, and a max raise of 5%.

Basically, as soon as we agreed to the contracts with Hill and Randolph, the Porter offer sheet was DOA. I would imagine that Porter informed us he would be going with the Nets' offer, which is why we moved on the other free agents, but we may never know. Still, the idea that an aging Zach Randolph is such a great commodity as to convince us to end our pursuit of Porter seems silly to me. Odds are Porter said "Thanks, but no thanks" and we moved on.
Click to expand...
Did Bogdanovic has a cap hold and how much was it?

Given that we held his rights, does it mean that the order in which we sign players matters? What I am trying to say really is how much cap space would we have if we signed Bogdan first and say last? Would the available room be different given that he is "our own" FA?
 
Čarolija said:
Did Bogdanovic has a cap hold and how much was it?

Given that we held his rights, does it mean that the order in which we sign players matters? What I am trying to say really is how much cap space would we have if we signed Bogdan first and say last? Would the available room be different given that he is "our own" FA?
Click to expand...
As long as he is still under contract to Fener there is no cap hold until he is bought out.
 
I believe cap holds for 1st round draft picks playing overseas are only removed during the regular season and added on after July 1st even if they are still under contract.
 
Gary said:
I assume were going to be starting something like this,

Hill
Hield
Bogdan
ZBO
WCS

?????

Doesn't look like a bad lineup and there is actually some experience in there. Might be a bit small but in today's basketball I doubt it would matter much.
Click to expand...

Joerger is now free to play a bizarro grit-and-grind lineup if he so pleases
Papa (Marc Gasol-lite high post guy)/Kosta (playing as himself before he came to Sacramento as a free agent)
Z-Bo (Elderly version of himself)/WCS (Ed Davis-role)
Justin Jackson (Young poor man's Tayshaun Prince)
Temple (Tony Allen role)
De'Aaron Fox (Young Conley role)/ Hill

Now, I wouldn't necessarily recommend going that route as you're minimizing the impact of a lot of your players but you can do it if you want. Obviously the lack of SF depth is still a bit of an issue but with the league continuing to pivot to small ball, you're going to be playing against a lot of three guard lineups anyways so it probably won't kill you except for the nights you're playing KD/Lebron/PG during which you're probably still screwed even if you have a bunch of SFs anyways.

I do find it hilarious how Vlade and Joerger continuously find ways to subvert Vivek's need for GS-esque basketball, this time by signing the one guy who may be the most diametrically opposed to the Oakland offensive philosophy (Z-Bo) and once again filling half the roster with legitimate big men (WCS/Z-Bo/Kosta/Skal/Papa/Giles).
 
Kingfanpaul said:
That's not necessarily true. We may have pulled the offer when he decided to check out other teams. Maybe we didn't want to wait in him. Brooklyn may have been the only deal he still had on the table, so he took it to ensure a max deal.
Click to expand...
right. and this offseason is the perfect example of that "reputation" quickly fading, if not already non existent

This is no time to be feeling sorry for ourselves lol quite the opposite folks.
 
Hills contract is very team friendly but Im afraid it means our odds to land a superstar in draft decreased a lot. Zbo was a little overpay imo if its fully guaranteed but I guess im okay with that. On paper the perfect "mentor" for our young big men, especially for WCS and PapaG.

The problem now is that some guys are left without any playing time. Most likely Mason, Malachi, Giles and Papa G. Its very hard for any of them to "earn" their minutes when Mason would have to take it from our n.5 pick or Hill, Malachi is behind a sg we traded Cuz for and our new big signee from europe plus a very solid 3d player. Papa G is kind of buried in to the bench. KK, WCS, Zbo and possibly Skal will get minutes at center and if Kings believe PapaG will become a player, I would advocate them to trade Kosta for a first rounder, preferably '19.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Odds are Porter said "Thanks, but no thanks" and we moved on.
Click to expand...

After the Kings met with him and offered a max deal he continued to take meetings with other teams. That was as sure a sign as any that he wanted to be elsewhere. And as long as the Nets also offered a max deal, he was going to sign their offer sheet.

The Kings were used to set the market.

The only thing I wonder is whether he had any real interest in Sacramento. I have to think he did, or he would have met with the Nets first and only used the Kings as a backup if Brooklyn didn't offer him the max.

I like Porter but I'm not heartbroken that the Kings didn't land him. He's turned into a very good shooter and a pretty good team defender but he's still not a very good individual defender and can't create his own shot. It's a lot of money for a high level role player when the Kings can't even be certain that they have a star on their roster yet.
 
Gguod said:
Hills contract is very team friendly but Im afraid it means our odds to land a superstar in draft decreased a lot. Zbo was a little overpay imo if its fully guaranteed but I guess im okay with that. On paper the perfect "mentor" for our young big men, especially for WCS and PapaG.

The problem now is that some guys are left without any playing time. Most likely Mason, Malachi, Giles and Papa G. Its very hard for any of them to "earn" their minutes when Mason would have to take it from our n.5 pick or Hill, Malachi is behind a sg we traded Cuz for and our new big signee from europe plus a very solid 3d player. Papa G is kind of buried in to the bench. KK, WCS, Zbo and possibly Skal will get minutes at center and if Kings believe PapaG will become a player, I would advocate them to trade Kosta for a first rounder, preferably '19.
Click to expand...

I had/have the same concerns. But the truth is George Hill and Zbo are not more than middle of the pack at their positions. The rest of the roster, while mostly very young, is back-end rotation material at best.
So taking into account the age and injury history of the signings, they add 5 wins to the team, maybe. If the team does better, that means someone broke out and played suprosingly well, which I would take in exchange for a lower lottery pick.

And as we saw this year, all the kids got chances to play, just not right away. Guys are going to get dinged up, someone will struggle, and a kid will get an audition.

My hope is the Koufos gets moved midseason, once PapaG impresses enough to show he can handle backup C duties. While I would have been happy handing PapaG 15 minutes off the bat, I also believe he would have been very raw and struggle a bit.
 
Čarolija said:
Did Bogdanovic has a cap hold and how much was it?

Given that we held his rights, does it mean that the order in which we sign players matters? What I am trying to say really is how much cap space would we have if we signed Bogdan first and say last? Would the available room be different given that he is "our own" FA?
Click to expand...

I believe Bogdanovic did have a cap hold, but I'm not sure exactly the size - I'm pretty sure it was significantly smaller than the contract we offered him. That cap hold can be removed by mutual consent (the player agrees not to come over that year) but clearly that didn't happen in this case.

Still, that cap hold has nothing to do with the question of how we could sign those four players: Bogdanovic, Hill, Randolph (all of whom we have agreements with) and Porter on top of that. Considering that the offer we made to Porter was a max offer, we didn't have the cap space to sign Porter and all the other three to the agreements that were reportedly made. Some people suggested that we could use the MLE to sign Bogdanovic - the problem with this theory is that we do not have an MLE available this year at all. Not now, not later, not before we spend to the cap and not after we spend to the cap (assuming we do). The MLE, by rule, disappears when you go under the cap, which we did.

It doesn't actually matter that he was "our own" free agent. That's what his cap hold is for. Fox, Jackson, and Giles all have cap holds as well, and when we sign them we will sign them using those. Those cap holds, for the scale-contract rookies, also come along with a cap exception, but because Bogdanovic is no longer a scale-contract rookie, we don't get an exception to sign him. He would have to be signed with another, standard exception. For example, the MLE (we don't have one), the Bi-annual (we don't have one, and it's not big enough), the Room exception (we may get one if we spend up to the cap, but it's not big enough), or cap space. Cap space is what we have to use to sign him.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
I believe Bogdanovic did have a cap hold, but I'm not sure exactly the size - I'm pretty sure it was significantly smaller than the contract we offered him. That cap hold can be removed by mutual consent (the player agrees not to come over that year) but clearly that didn't happen in this case.

Still, that cap hold has nothing to do with the question of how we could sign those four players: Bogdanovic, Hill, Randolph (all of whom we have agreements with) and Porter on top of that. Considering that the offer we made to Porter was a max offer, we didn't have the cap space to sign Porter and all the other three to the agreements that were reportedly made. Some people suggested that we could use the MLE to sign Bogdanovic - the problem with this theory is that we do not have an MLE available this year at all. Not now, not later, not before we spend to the cap and not after we spend to the cap (assuming we do). The MLE, by rule, disappears when you go under the cap, which we did.

It doesn't actually matter that he was "our own" free agent. That's what his cap hold is for. Fox, Jackson, and Giles all have cap holds as well, and when we sign them we will sign them using those. Those cap holds, for the scale-contract rookies, also come along with a cap exception, but because Bogdanovic is no longer a scale-contract rookie, we don't get an exception to sign him. He would have to be signed with another, standard exception. For example, the MLE (we don't have one), the Bi-annual (we don't have one, and it's not big enough), the Room exception (we may get one if we spend up to the cap, but it's not big enough), or cap space. Cap space is what we have to use to sign him.
Click to expand...

There are times when I simultaneously am in tremendous awe of you and think you're a big fat loser with too much time on your hands :p
 
Tetsujin said:
Joerger is now free to play a bizarro grit-and-grind lineup if he so pleases
Papa (Marc Gasol-lite high post guy)/Kosta (playing as himself before he came to Sacramento as a free agent)
Z-Bo (Elderly version of himself)/WCS (Ed Davis-role)
Justin Jackson (Young poor man's Tayshaun Prince)
Temple (Tony Allen role)
De'Aaron Fox (Young Conley role)/ Hill

Now, I wouldn't necessarily recommend going that route as you're minimizing the impact of a lot of your players but you can do it if you want. Obviously the lack of SF depth is still a bit of an issue but with the league continuing to pivot to small ball, you're going to be playing against a lot of three guard lineups anyways so it probably won't kill you except for the nights you're playing KD/Lebron/PG during which you're probably still screwed even if you have a bunch of SFs anyways.

I do find it hilarious how Vlade and Joerger continuously find ways to subvert Vivek's need for GS-esque basketball, this time by signing the one guy who may be the most diametrically opposed to the Oakland offensive philosophy (Z-Bo) and once again filling half the roster with legitimate big men (WCS/Z-Bo/Kosta/Skal/Papa/Giles).
Click to expand...

It's because they both know that trying to emulate what the Warriors are doing is not realistic and it won't get them anywhere. They are trying to build their own identity, culture & style of play and I applaud them for doing so. If they don't reach their end goal, then so be it, they can at least say they went down fighting and swinging.
 
The Kings are going to be landing guys like Porter in 2019, after some of these young guys start to play like vets and this team starts to win. The Porter FA attempt was a Hail Mary from the very beginning and no doubt Kings' management was fully aware of that. Nice try, but the real blocking and tackling was the signing of Hill and Randolph. I couldn't be happier with what Kings' management has done this off-season. They are building this team the right way.
 
DesertFox said:
I had/have the same concerns. But the truth is George Hill and Zbo are not more than middle of the pack at their positions. The rest of the roster, while mostly very young, is back-end rotation material at best.
So taking into account the age and injury history of the signings, they add 5 wins to the team, maybe. If the team does better, that means someone broke out and played suprosingly well, which I would take in exchange for a lower lottery pick.

And as we saw this year, all the kids got chances to play, just not right away. Guys are going to get dinged up, someone will struggle, and a kid will get an audition.

My hope is the Koufos gets moved midseason, once PapaG impresses enough to show he can handle backup C duties. While I would have been happy handing PapaG 15 minutes off the bat, I also believe he would have been very raw and struggle a bit.
Click to expand...

Hill is going to surprise some people. The guy is surprisingly effective despite the fact that he isn't really a pure scorer or distributor.

5 wins last year was the difference in 8th and 4th in the lottery. That's the difference in Jackson/Fox and Markkanen/Ntilikina. Obviously we don't know how any of them are going to turn out but the scouting says they are on very different tiers.

I'm just hoping Joerger doesn't go into the season playing the vets 30min a game while playing the young guys on short leashes. He was great last year after the Cousins trade but we have yet to see what he does in this situation. They were obviously trying to make the playoffs with Cousins so none of us were too worried about the rookies playing but after the Cousins trade he did his best to sit the veterans for rest and mild injuries while giving the young guys enough minutes to get a feel for the game but not enough to go out and really screw anything up too bad in case they weren't ready. Every coach is going to start the season with playoffs on their mind but hopefully he doesn't run with that for half the season if things obviously aren't going in that direction.

I like Hill, Randolph and Kofous but I'd much rather see the rookies play big minutes and win a few less games than watch those guys play big minutes and win a few more games. Seeing the kids develop is going to be a heck of a lot more entertaining than that to me.
 
funkykingston said:
After the Kings met with him and offered a max deal he continued to take meetings with other teams. That was as sure a sign as any that he wanted to be elsewhere. And as long as the Nets also offered a max deal, he was going to sign their offer sheet.

The Kings were used to set the market.

The only thing I wonder is whether he had any real interest in Sacramento. I have to think he did, or he would have met with the Nets first and only used the Kings as a backup if Brooklyn didn't offer him the max.

I like Porter but I'm not heartbroken that the Kings didn't land him. He's turned into a very good shooter and a pretty good team defender but he's still not a very good individual defender and can't create his own shot. It's a lot of money for a high level role player when the Kings can't even be certain that they have a star on their roster yet.
Click to expand...

I like Otto a little more but see his limitations too as a one-on-one scorer. His high release and smooth and intuitive playing style make it a pretty safe bet however he's a 40% 3 point shooter for a long time and his efficiency will be extraordinary even if his usage jumps from 15% to 20%. What I didn't realize is that matching on Otto will take the Wizards into luxury tax. The numbers on Hoops Hype differ from elsewhere. This has to be have the Wizards thinking of S&T with the Nets and dump Mahinmi. This is from the Wizards forum:

Here's the skinny on the Wizards tax situation
Otto Porter 24,773,250
Bradley Beal 23,775,506
John Wall 18,063,850
Ian Mahinmi 16,661,641
Marcin Gortat 12,782,609
Markieff Morris 8,000,000
Jason Smith 5,225,000
Jodie Meeks 3,290,000
Tomas Satoransky 3,000,000
Kelly Oubre 2,093,040
Tim Frazier 2,000,000
Mike Scott 1,709,538
Chris McCullough 1,471,382
Daniel Ochefu 1,312,611
Sheldon McClellan 1,312,611
TOTAL SALARIES $ 125,471,038

Will be over the tax line by $7,352,580
Tax bill will be $11,617,015

If these numbers are true, then Otto becomes a 35M dollar player if you assign the tax bill to his effective cost :eek: This changes dynamics in my mind where if I am Wizards I am scrambling to get Nets to take Mahimi or I inform them we will have no choice but to match and I am also on the phone with Ainge trying to get him to part with Crowder to replace Otto. A team with Crowder, Beal, Wall and Boogie in 2018 would be great (in theory). A team with Otto, Beal and Wall and 12M tax bill is strapped and not a serious threat to beat the Cavs / Celtics.
 
kingsboi said:
It's because they both know that trying to emulate what the Warriors are doing is not realistic and it won't get them anywhere. They are trying to build their own identity, culture & style of play and I applaud them for doing so. If they don't reach their end goal, then so be it, they can at least say they went down fighting and swinging.
Click to expand...
This. If anything we're attempting to replicate the Spurs culture and playing style. The best small market model ever imo.
 
ESP47 said:
Hill is going to surprise some people. The guy is surprisingly effective despite the fact that he isn't really a pure scorer or distributor.

5 wins last year was the difference in 8th and 4th in the lottery. That's the difference in Jackson/Fox and Markkanen/Ntilikina. Obviously we don't know how any of them are going to turn out but the scouting says they are on very different tiers.
Click to expand...
You know the win difference between who drafted 4th and 5th was? 8 wins. Win what you can and let the lottery balls fall how they will.
 
Of Interest:

Report: Wizards looking for sign-and-trade with Bojan Bogdanovic
The Wizards are looking to do a sign-and-trade deal with restricted free agent Bojan Bogdanovic according to CSN Mid-Atlantic.

They can’t afford to keep him and some of the stuff we’ve seen out there on Bogdanovic has been absurd, starting with his own expectations for a $16 million per year contract. He hasn’t been able to step up as a consistent performer in tours with both the Wizards and the Nets, so it will be interesting to see what kind of a deal he can get.
 
AaronPDX said:
Of Interest:

Report: Wizards looking for sign-and-trade with Bojan Bogdanovic
The Wizards are looking to do a sign-and-trade deal with restricted free agent Bojan Bogdanovic according to CSN Mid-Atlantic.

They can’t afford to keep him and some of the stuff we’ve seen out there on Bogdanovic has been absurd, starting with his own expectations for a $16 million per year contract. He hasn’t been able to step up as a consistent performer in tours with both the Wizards and the Nets, so it will be interesting to see what kind of a deal he can get.
Click to expand...

I really don't want the Kings to sign Bojan outright, especially at his asking price. But I'd be downright angry if the gave up an asset in a S&T to get him.
 
I want no part in Bojan. Kings already got 2 solid vets in Hill and Z-bo through FA. Signing Bojan makes me think we're going to try for 8th seed..which probably means all of our young guys except Buddy will see GLeague time. Nope...nope...and nope.
Here's their stats from last year:
Randolph: 14pts 8rebs
Hill: 16.9pts 4.2asts 3.4rebs
Bojan: 13.7pts 3.4rebs

Then add in Temple+Koufos+Bogdanovic.. then it means our young guys get no PT at all. Bogdan will be 25, so his age frame isn't considered young.
 
ESP47 said:
That's worked once for us in the last 25 years or so.
Click to expand...

True, but I'm also not in love with next year's draft class. I haven't watched enough of Doncic to try and determine how he'll translate to the NBA and what I've seen of Porter and Ayton hasn't impressed. Bamba and Sexton jumped out at me (in a good way) but neither plays a position of need for the Kings.

I'm still high on Miles Bridges and that may work out well since I don't know that he'll be a top five pick next year.
 
I'd like Bojan at the right price. He can shoot and play off the bench... He's has a good career ahead of him. Regardless sf looks like our weakness moving forward.
 
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