Free-agency all the time: Someone needs a to put a stop to it before the NBA dies

Huh? What they did was collusion by definition...

I would disagree with your definition of collusion. By the simplest definition, collusion is a secret agreement to do something you're not allowed to do. Entities that collude do not want anybody to find out that they did, because that would unmask their breaking of the rules. Kevin McHale and Joe Smith? Collusion.

LeBron, Wade and Bosh cooperated. Now, they didn't tell anybody about it, but that doesn't mean that what they did was disallowed.
 
Whatever you want to call it I do believe there should be rules made against it in the future. I've never seen a definition of collusion that mandated it be illegal though, just that it would be secretive and usually unpopular/treachorous (which often includes illegal acts).

The players did nothing illegal by NBA rules but I don't believe they took the high road either.
 
Agreed.

Basically the issue is that there is an unfair playing field.

Desirable markets will always have the advantage. They can bypass the entire painful system of rebuilding through the draft in one season. Superstars believe the location is more important than winning. I had no problems wiht KG leaving a bad MIN team. But Lebron or Melo leaving a 60+ win team is awful.

This is where protection for those teams is needed.

Protection from what exactly? I think that if a player wants to leave in free agency, he should be able to, no matter how many games the team won the season before.
 
I would disagree with your definition of collusion. By the simplest definition, collusion is a secret agreement to do something you're not allowed to do. Entities that collude do not want anybody to find out that they did, because that would unmask their breaking of the rules. Kevin McHale and Joe Smith? Collusion.

LeBron, Wade and Bosh cooperated. Now, they didn't tell anybody about it, but that doesn't mean that what they did was disallowed.

I think you are missing this point about collusion; they did it for what purpose? To gain an advantage... a potentially unfair advantage in the NBA... Is it illegal? Maybe not; it depends how much the Heat front office knew... either way, there was collusion

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion
Collusion is an agreement, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, which occurs between two or more persons to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair advantage....

...collusion takes place within an industry when rival companies cooperate for their mutual benefit....

Examples
Collusion is largely illegal in the United States, Canada and most of the EU due to competition/antitrust law, but implicit collusion in the form of price leadership and tacit understandings still takes place. Several examples of collusion in the United States include:

The sharing of potential contract terms by NBA free agents in an effort to help a targeted franchise circumvent the salary cap...
 
I think you are missing this point about collusion; they did it for what purpose? To gain an advantage... a potentially unfair advantage in the NBA... Is it illegal? Maybe not; it depends how much the Heat front office knew... either way, there was collusion

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion

Not to nitpick, but wikipedia isn't a reliable source if there's no source material supporting a conclusion presented there. You or I could go edit that wiki to say whatever we want it to say. Doesn't make it true. But if there's a reference supporting what we add to the wiki, then it's usable.

As for the definition offered, what the Three did doesn't qualify. It wasn't deceptive, misleading or an attempt to defraud, nor was it obtaining an objective forbidden by law or league rules. Collusion carries the connotation of doing something that's not allowed, but talking amongst yourselves to find a way to make it happen. Unless anyone can prove that the Three made these plans, then told Pat Riley about these plans (or even had contact with him before free agency began this offseason), then you can't prove collusion. Sure they did what they did to gain an advantage, but that's what building a team in professional sports is all about. Everything you do is an attempt to gain an advantage. The key is that you stay within the confines of the rules, which it appears the Three did.

I do agree that this presents a problem for the NBA and its attempts at providing a competitive balance, but I don't think it represents a nefarious attempt to circumvent the rules.
 
Well, first off, the players didn't sacrifice anything. The salaries are by-the-numbers smaller than the maximum they could have received, but since Florida has no state income tax, it's likely they will net about the same. So what did they sacrifice?

Secondly, the Heat didn't "build" this team through FA. The players built this team through free agency, by getting together and deciding they would all be in Miami.

Define it how you want. The Heat still had to sign off on it. They still went through the recruiting process and had to sell the plan to the players. The 3 obviously talked amongst themselves but to think that Pat Riely and the Heat didn't build this team is ignoring the facts. 3 players don't make a team. They made personnel moves the past few seasons to get to this point.

There isn't anything more to say if you don't think sacrifices weren't made or will have to be made for that team to be successful.
 
I'm a fan of a small market team just like everyone else is. I would love for the Kings to be able to tell Tyreke Evans and DeMarcus Cousins "you ain't goin nowhere, so get comfortable." But I don't think it's right to nail a player to the floor, nor do I think it's necessary for the intrinsic fairness of the sport to be held in tact. Player movement promotes competition, so that if and when we want to sign a free agent from another small market team, said team doesn't swoop in and block the move, and we're left in the dark. Free agency is one of the tools that a team can use to build a winner. Restricting it is the opposite of what the NBA should do.

You are right, but what isn't fair that is that only 5 teams in the NBA have a legit shot of getting that superstar player. Mostly the motivation to bolt to the big city team is for brand-building self-promoting purposes and nothing to do with tagging up with a winning team.
 
You are right, but what isn't fair that is that only 5 teams in the NBA have a legit shot of getting that superstar player. Mostly the motivation to bolt to the big city team is for brand-building self-promoting purposes and nothing to do with tagging up with a winning team.

I don't totally agree with that. The Three chose Miami primarily because they had a better shot as a trio than just two of them going to New York or Chicago, or the Cavs trading for Bosh. Winning was a big consideration. And winning is Chris Paul's supposed issue right now. Winning was Kobe's issue. The big market issue matters also.

And it's also not accurate that only big market teams have a legit shot of getting a superstar player. The home team has a built in advantage with Bird rights to give more money and longer contracts to their players (Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson took advantage of that in their new contracts). You can't do anything about geography though. LA and Chicago and New York and Miami will always be more attractive than the smaller market cities, and there's nothing the NBA can do about that.
 
Free agency is the absolute OPPOSITE of a balancing factor in the NBA. Free agency is precisely where every big market/glamour city gains its biggest advanatges. Free agency is why the Yankees own baseball.

The draft is 100% balanced (unless you believe Stern is pulling the string). Market size/glamour is irrelevant. Everybody has the same shot. Trades are 100% balanced (other than the competence of your GM of course). Market size/glamout is irrelevant. Sometimes the small market team swings Richmond for Webber, sometimes the big market team swings junk for Gasol, but everybody has the same opportunity.

Free agency is NOT balanced. Free agency allows all the little advantages and prejudices of small market vs. big market, popular locale vs. unpopular, to bubble to the surface. Free agency ELIMINATES the level playing field. It is no friend at all to the small market team. It is the single greatest potentially UNbalancing factor in the league. The league has attempted to minimize the unbalance by the use of a salary cap. To spread around the available money so that players' greed will overcome their inherent preferences and drive them to spread their talent around the league. Once that factor is no longer enough -- and it should be noted here that maximum salaries and the immense popularity of basketball has been pushing this way for a long time by making a superstar's salary the smallest part of his annual income (compared to endoresemnts and business deals) -- then the only defense against a disastrous concentration of the best players in a handful of cities is an appeal to their pride/egos. When both those have failed, as they have failed in Miami and may be headed toward failure in New York, then unfettered free agency is an unfettered disaster and can no longer be allowed. Free agency without checks is ruinous to the small market teams that comprise 2/3 of the league. In the long term it may even make them unviable -- remove not only those team's stars, but any chance in the future of them acquiring a star, retaining him, and being able to compete, and the fans will leave, and stay left. The Washington Generals have no fans.

This league, and any league is NOT a league for the players. It is not even a league for the owners. It is a league for the fans. Without them there is no league, no money, these dips are back to bouncing a ball on a pickup court and working nightshifts at Mcdonald's. The owners are back to wasting their money on gold platered yachts rather than basketball teams. The fans ARE the league. Anything which damages them or loses them cannot be tolerated, anymore than GM can afford to alienate its customers or Microsoft can continue to release buggy software and then not respond to calls to fix it. Free agency is a negotiated privilege, not a right. Once it no longer serves the purposes of the majority of the fans, and by extension the league, it needs to be restricted. And has been in various ways since the beginning. Lesser players moving around would almost surely still be allowed, although even there there is a bit of an unbalancing problem as the rush to sign cheap with Miami and the Lakers have shown. But the heart and soul franchise players abandoning their smaller franchises to have cluster****s in a handful of big cities is intolerable and a tremendous threat to competitive balance in the league. I cannot in fact think of a bigger one in the last 25 years.
 
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Free agency is why the Yankees own baseball.

This is a good argument. Heck even in baseball, it is much easier to build a competitive team by acquiring and developing prospects. Also a team that is hot in the post-season can beat a more talented team.

However, in basketball, it is damn well impossible to win without talent. If your quarter horse leaves, you are screwed.
 
Free agency is the absolute OPPOSITE of a balancing factor in the NBA. Free agency is precisely where every big market/glamour city gains its biggest advanatges. Free agency is why the Yankees own baseball.

Unfettered free agency, absolutely. I'm arguing for a much more restrictive free agency process than MLB or even what the NBA currently has. And when you look at free agency in the NFL -- which is most similar to what I'm arguing for -- it is asbolutely a balancing factor.

Free agency is NOT balanced. Free agency allows all the little advantages and prejudices of small market vs. big market, popular locale vs. unpopular, to bubble to the surface. Free agency ELIMINATES the level playing field. It is no friend at all to the small market team. It is the single greatest potentially UNbalancing factor in the league. The league has attempted to minimize the unbalance by the use of a salary cap. To spread around the available money so that players' greed will overcome their inherent preferences and drive them to spread their talent around the league. Once that factor is no longer enough -- and it should be noted here that maximum salaries and the immense popularity of basketball has been pushing this way for a long time by making a superstar's salary the smallest part of his annual income (compared to endoresemnts and business deals) -- then the only defense against a disastrous concentration of the best players in a handful of cities is an appeal to their pride/egos. When both those have failed, as they have failed in Miami and may be headed toward failure in New York, then unfettered free agency is an unfettered disaster and can no longer be allowed. Free agency without checks is ruinous to the small market teams that comprise 2/3 of the league. In the long term it may even make them unviable -- remove not only those team's stars, but any chance in the future of them acquiring a star, retaining him, and being able to compete, and the fans will leave, and stay left. The Washington Generals have no fans.

You're describing Major League Baseball, where A-Rod goes to join Jeter and the Yankees because he wants to win a championship. Of course, that was a trade and not free agency, but it fits. And there's enough examples of the best players leaving small market teams and joining the glamour teams with all the money that we can look at a league with no checks that doesn't make any attempts to protect the small market Davids from the big market Goliaths. Of course, MLB has a free agency with no restrictions on teams that are over the salary cap, only a luxury tax (not even dollar for dollar, so it's even weaker than the NBA's luxury tax). So the Yankees, already tens of millions over the salary cap and in luxury tax territory, can spend another $400 million in one offseason on the three best free agents available, and win the World Series that year. That destroys the Tampa Bay Rays and Florida Marlins and Milwaukee Bucks and every other small or even medium market team in baseball.

I'm saying the NBA should go in the opposite direction, like the NFL, where teams have to keep their payroll below the cap every year, which often means players in their primes get cut or traded, or take pay cuts, in order to help their teams' bottom lines. It means that free agents are allowed to leave in favor of younger, cheaper players, even at key positions. I means non-guaranteed contracts. It means Drew Brees leaves the Chargers and signs with the Saints, and four years later is the Super Bowl MVP. The NFL's free agency isn't the primary means of adding talent, but it makes it possible for a bad team to make a few moves and be a contender three years later. Small market teams are NOT shut out of the free agency pool, and big market teams don't have a huge advantage at luring elite players away from their home teams, primarily because you still have to fill a roster and stay under the salary cap. There's no maximum contracts in the NFL because the hard cap is an automatic restriction on every team, equally, so you don't have anyone signing for ten years, $250 million because it would kill the cap.

But the truly elite players stay for pretty much their entire career with one team, even without Bird rights. Peyton Manning won't ever leave the Colts, and as long as he gets paid, Tom Brady isn't leaving the Patriots. Brett Favre didn't leave the Packers until they made him leave. You're not going to see a bunch of top level players in their primes team up and go play for the Cowboys or the Giants, primarily because it's not possible.

This league, and any league is NOT a league for the players. It is not even a league for the owners. It is a league for the fans. Without them there is no league, no money, these dips are back to bouncing a ball on a pickup court and working nightshifts at Mcdonald's. The owners are back to wasting their money on gold platered yachts rather than basketball teams. The fans ARE the league. Anything which damages them or loses them cannot be tolerated, anymore than GM can afford to alienate its customers or Microsoft can continue to release buggy software and then not respond to calls to fix it. Free agency is a negotiated privilege, not a right. Once it no longer serves the purposes of the majority of the fans, and by extension the league, it needs to be restricted. And has been in various ways since the beginning. Lesser players moving around would almost surely still be allowed, although even there there is a bit of an unbalancing problem as the rush to sign cheap with Miami and the Lakers have shown. But the heart and soul franchise players abandoning their smaller franchises to have cluster****s in a handful of big cities is intolerable and a tremendous threat to competitive balance in the league. I cannot in fact think of a bigger one in the last 25 years.

I agree with your overall sentiment. I just don't agree that free agency is the problem. You institute a hard cap, and the competitive balance of the NBA remains. Even if the Miami Heat still are able to build this team, they'd have to tear it up in a couple seasons, max, in order to stay under the cap.

I also disagree with the idea that free agency isn't a right. It most certainly is, under the current CBA. A player earns their free agency by playing out their contract. If there's a restricted clause in said contract, then the team has the right to retain that player even if they wish to go elsewhere. But eventually, free agency is granted. You're saying that if the NBA takes that right away, it's no longer a right. Sure, but as of right now, it IS a right, and I'm sure the players have no incentive to relinquish that right.

The competitive balance of the NBA doesn't depend on players finishing their careers where they started. It doesn't depend on a team being able to claim rights to a star athlete for the rest of his playing days. It depends on each team having equal opportunity to build a good team, via the draft, trades, and free agency, as far as the league can determine equal opportunity.
 
As for proposals to counter yours, I have the following. I've been working these ideas out in my head for several weeks now. None of them are iron clad, but they would fundamentally change free agency in the NBA. Would be much more like the NFL.

1) Hard cap: Fairly self-explanatory, no team can spend endless amounts of money without regard for the salary cap. No MLE, no going over the cap to keep your own free agents, no trading for more salary, etc. If the salary cap is $55 million, that's the maximum amount of payroll you can carry in a given season.

The ramifications of this change would probably lead to non-guaranteed contracts, so that if a team needs to cut payroll to fit under the cap, it can do so. Would also require a function that prohibits insanely front loaded contracts, so that you can't sign Player X for $80 million over five years, but give him $30 million in the first season when you're cap rich, and then divide the remaining $50 million over the next four seasons, and stay under the cap.

Concession: A stronger luxury tax penalty, which would kick in once a team goes over the cap, and would escalate for every consecutive year a team is over the cap. Would also get rid of MLE contracts and strip Bird rights for teams that spend over the cap. The teams that spend less than the cap receive tax payments, but not in consecutive years. Would end luxury tax welfare for teams that don't spend money to compete. And the maximum received for each team in a given year is 10% of the cap ($55 million cap, you only get a maximum of $5.5 million in tax money). The rest goes to league related expenses, like referee training, rookie training, technology enhancements (like equipment for reviews, stuff like that).

2) Compensatory draft picks: Teams that lose players via free agency get extra picks in the next summer's draft. Set up a compensatory round after the first round of the draft, and another after the second round, and that's where these compensatory picks come from. If you offer your own free agent a contract and he signs with another team, whether you have Bird rights or not, you are awarded a compensatory pick. If you offer a max contract and he signs elsewhere, you get two compensatory picks. If he signs for less, you get two picks in the next draft, and a third in the following draft. Each team is allowed a max of three compensatory picks in a given year. There would have to be a formula for determining the order and value of the compensatory picks.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say Toronto receives two Level A compensatory picks, and a third Level B pick, in next year's draft. There's a total of ten Level A compensatory picks and four Level B picks. Along with the fact that they're going to pretty bad next season, let's assume they wind up fifth in the Lottery, they could conceivably wind up picking 5th, 31st, 36th, 45th, and 71st. Five picks in one draft, three in the top 40. Might not make up for losing their star power forward, but they get some form of compensation.

Concession: Restricted free agency. Much like the NFL, a team has the option to place a tender value on their star player. They would determine whether they want an average value on their player (a second round pick), a high value (a first round pick), or the highest value (two first round picks). The difference from the NFL's restricted free agency is that, along with that tender, they'd be offering a long term contract to that player, not just a one year deal. Values for the tendered contracts would be based on the average and max contracts allowable that season, same as MLE and max contracts now. If a team wants to sign your tendered player, they have to match that contract AND be willing to part with the picks that go along with the contract. Those picks have to be available starting the next season, so if you don't have them, you can't offer the contract. Trades are allowed outside of the restricted free agency process, so if the other team is willing to work out a deal with you, that's fine.

Hypothetical, the Raptors place a Level A tender on Chris Bosh, which includes a max contract. If the Heat want to sign him, they have to match the contract, plus surrender this year's first rounder and next year's first rounder, otherwise, they can't sign him. If the Heat are open to working out a sign and trade, that's allowable, but they ensure themselves compensation. (This would have killed the Miami fiasco.) At the same time, the player doesn't have to sign with just any team. If the Clippers are willing to match the Raptors tender, Bosh doesn't have to accept, but that might mean he stays in Toronto, where he doesn't want to be. Might throw in a player option after Year 4 of a six year deal, but free agency is still restricted.

3) End no-trade clauses: If a team makes a trade, no player can veto that trade because they don't want to play for the team they're being traded to.

That means that if Carmelo Anthony demands a trade, the Nuggets can send him to the worst team in the NBA and there's nothing he can do about it.

Concession: Trade kicker clause. If the Nuggets send Carmelo Anthony to the worst team, he automatically earns 15% more for the rest of the contract. He can waive this clause to go to the team he wants to go to.

4) Automatic Bird rights for all draft picks: The current system only grants Bird rights (the ability to offer better contracts to your own players than other teams can) on first round players. This is the basic reason Carlos Boozer was able to hoodwink the Cavaliers in 2004, and the reason why the Warriors weren't able to keep Gilbert Arenas in 2003. Simply put, this change would make it so that you can offer a better contract to any player you draft, regardless of how long they've been with the team. Doesn't apply to undrafted rookie free agents or veteran free agent signings; the current three year rule would still apply for those players. Bird rights would still be traded with the player.
 
So other than 3 and 4, you basically have the NFL system without the Franchise tag. Non-guaranteed contracts will lead to players fighting for guaranteed bonuses though which might lead to James Dolan doing Daniel Snyder moves for huge upfront money that can be spread out over multiple years.


As for proposals to counter yours, I have the following. I've been working these ideas out in my head for several weeks now. None of them are iron clad, but they would fundamentally change free agency in the NBA. Would be much more like the NFL.

1) Hard cap: Fairly self-explanatory, no team can spend endless amounts of money without regard for the salary cap. No MLE, no going over the cap to keep your own free agents, no trading for more salary, etc. If the salary cap is $55 million, that's the maximum amount of payroll you can carry in a given season.

The ramifications of this change would probably lead to non-guaranteed contracts, so that if a team needs to cut payroll to fit under the cap, it can do so. Would also require a function that prohibits insanely front loaded contracts, so that you can't sign Player X for $80 million over five years, but give him $30 million in the first season when you're cap rich, and then divide the remaining $50 million over the next four seasons, and stay under the cap.

Concession: A stronger luxury tax penalty, which would kick in once a team goes over the cap, and would escalate for every consecutive year a team is over the cap. Would also get rid of MLE contracts and strip Bird rights for teams that spend over the cap. The teams that spend less than the cap receive tax payments, but not in consecutive years. Would end luxury tax welfare for teams that don't spend money to compete. And the maximum received for each team in a given year is 10% of the cap ($55 million cap, you only get a maximum of $5.5 million in tax money). The rest goes to league related expenses, like referee training, rookie training, technology enhancements (like equipment for reviews, stuff like that).

2) Compensatory draft picks: Teams that lose players via free agency get extra picks in the next summer's draft. Set up a compensatory round after the first round of the draft, and another after the second round, and that's where these compensatory picks come from. If you offer your own free agent a contract and he signs with another team, whether you have Bird rights or not, you are awarded a compensatory pick. If you offer a max contract and he signs elsewhere, you get two compensatory picks. If he signs for less, you get two picks in the next draft, and a third in the following draft. Each team is allowed a max of three compensatory picks in a given year. There would have to be a formula for determining the order and value of the compensatory picks.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say Toronto receives two Level A compensatory picks, and a third Level B pick, in next year's draft. There's a total of ten Level A compensatory picks and four Level B picks. Along with the fact that they're going to pretty bad next season, let's assume they wind up fifth in the Lottery, they could conceivably wind up picking 5th, 31st, 36th, 45th, and 71st. Five picks in one draft, three in the top 40. Might not make up for losing their star power forward, but they get some form of compensation.

Concession: Restricted free agency. Much like the NFL, a team has the option to place a tender value on their star player. They would determine whether they want an average value on their player (a second round pick), a high value (a first round pick), or the highest value (two first round picks). The difference from the NFL's restricted free agency is that, along with that tender, they'd be offering a long term contract to that player, not just a one year deal. Values for the tendered contracts would be based on the average and max contracts allowable that season, same as MLE and max contracts now. If a team wants to sign your tendered player, they have to match that contract AND be willing to part with the picks that go along with the contract. Those picks have to be available starting the next season, so if you don't have them, you can't offer the contract. Trades are allowed outside of the restricted free agency process, so if the other team is willing to work out a deal with you, that's fine.

Hypothetical, the Raptors place a Level A tender on Chris Bosh, which includes a max contract. If the Heat want to sign him, they have to match the contract, plus surrender this year's first rounder and next year's first rounder, otherwise, they can't sign him. If the Heat are open to working out a sign and trade, that's allowable, but they ensure themselves compensation. (This would have killed the Miami fiasco.) At the same time, the player doesn't have to sign with just any team. If the Clippers are willing to match the Raptors tender, Bosh doesn't have to accept, but that might mean he stays in Toronto, where he doesn't want to be. Might throw in a player option after Year 4 of a six year deal, but free agency is still restricted.

3) End no-trade clauses: If a team makes a trade, no player can veto that trade because they don't want to play for the team they're being traded to.

That means that if Carmelo Anthony demands a trade, the Nuggets can send him to the worst team in the NBA and there's nothing he can do about it.

Concession: Trade kicker clause. If the Nuggets send Carmelo Anthony to the worst team, he automatically earns 15% more for the rest of the contract. He can waive this clause to go to the team he wants to go to.

4) Automatic Bird rights for all draft picks: The current system only grants Bird rights (the ability to offer better contracts to your own players than other teams can) on first round players. This is the basic reason Carlos Boozer was able to hoodwink the Cavaliers in 2004, and the reason why the Warriors weren't able to keep Gilbert Arenas in 2003. Simply put, this change would make it so that you can offer a better contract to any player you draft, regardless of how long they've been with the team. Doesn't apply to undrafted rookie free agents or veteran free agent signings; the current three year rule would still apply for those players. Bird rights would still be traded with the player.
 
You are working entirely too hard to save the nice little privileges of this extraordinarily small and pampered group of megamillionaires. Along the way you are proposing radical revisions effecting everyone and everything all to save Bron Bron his ability to screw his team. Along the way we also give everybody else the ability to screw everybody else as well. And for what? I am also nonplussed at how you keep on claiming that the players would never accept a limitation on movement of those Top 20 players, but they'll certainly accept a complete reordering of the entire free agency system, including unguaranteeing their contracts, instead? Uh, yeah.

Institute a franchise tag. Slap it on the best 20 or so players (presumably teams without top tier guys will not want to pay them the extra bonus). Traitorous franchise player problem solved, main danger of free agency to small teams solved. And without sending players flying all over the league -- and its inexplicable that you think that would be a good thing. The NFL system would suck eggs if the fans actually had any connection whatsoever to their left guard or nickelback. But they are all faceless uniforms. Aside from a handful of top skill players/faces of the franchise, nobody truly cares about those guys. They are just names. The NBA is a much more intimate sport/league. You see the player's faces, you recognize how each one moves/plays, there are few enough of them that you pretty much know them all. Having the entire team turn over every 2 years is not the way to go -- think how much angst losing Jon Brockman caused this summer. And in the NBA keeping a team together for chemistry is far more important than it is in the NFL where the plays are scripted.

The problem that has opened up has opened up amongst the NBA's elite players, a group that has been trusted to always act in one way, and now may be trending toward acting in a different, counter productive way. So you tailor your response to that group of players and close down the gap. The problem does not need a complete overhaul of the entire set of rules the league is based upon. As an aside, in any previous generation this cherished "right" to abandon the franchise which has put you up on a pedastal was almost never used. How many superstars in their prime left their team in free agency? Shaq. Grant Hill (although that injury ruined his prime). Maybe Moses back in the day? Might have been a trade, I do not recall. Very very few others. This precious cherished "right" was VERY rarely used by the superstar predecessors of today's wayward children. Somehow previous generations got by without it. I'm sure this gorup of wimps will too.
 
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As an aside another possible way to close the same hole that would also have a shot to tempt the union would be to simply alter the restricted free agency rules. Rather than the strict categories today, allow teams to put a resticted tag on one player an offseason, or every other offseason, or whatever would create roughly the same percentage of restricteds as today. Some teams would use them to save their franchise players. Some teams to resign their rookies. All teams to save their core assets. From the union's perspective no more players are restricted than ever were.
 
You are working entirely too hard to save the nice little privileges of this extraordinarily small and pampered group of megamillionaires. Along the way you are proposing radical revisions effecting everyone and everything all to save Bron Bron his ability to screw his team. Along the way we also give everybody else the ability to screw everybody else as well. And for what? I am also nonplussed at how you keep on claiming that the players would never accept a limitation on movement of those Top 20 players, but they'll certainly accept a complete reordering of the entire free agency system, including unguaranteeing their contracts, instead? Uh, yeah.

I disagree with the opinion that LeBron screwed his team. He left in free agency. Whether Cleveland is left high and dry or not is kind of a moot point. It's okay for the Wolves to trade Garnett and be a lottery team for the next three years, but it's not okay for LeBron to play out his contract and leave? You're painting free agents who leave as spoiled, traitorous little infidels, and while that might be exactly what LeBron is, it's not because he left in free agency. Nor is the threat to the league simply that he left. It's because he left and went to form a super parity threat in a major market. Had Kobe Bryant left the Lakers in 2004 we'd all be cheering the downfall of the evil empire. Sometimes, players leave. That's free agency. It doesn't destroy the NBA. In fact, it rarely happens.

As for non-guaranteed contracts, that's a tall order. But the residuals would be that young players coming into their own get paid, while injured washups get their cap value cut down. Grant Hill doesn't make $100 million for barely two seasons worth of games. It would promote a fairer distribution of the money, away from players that aren't fulfilling their contracts toward players who are earning that money. It is a tough sell, but it's the only way to do a hard cap.
Institute a franchise tag. Slap it on the best 20 or so players (presumably teams without top tier guys will not want to pay them the extra bonus). Traitorous franchise player problem solved, main danger of free agency to small teams solved. And without sending players flying all over the league -- and its inexplicable that you think that would be a good thing. The NFL system would suck eggs if the fans actually had any connection whatsoever to their left guard or nickelback. But they are all faceless uniforms. Aside from a handful of top skill players/faces of the franchise, nobody truly cares about those guys. They are just names. The NBA is a much more intimate sport/league. You see the player's faces, you recognize how each one moves/plays, there are few enough of them that you pretty much know them all. Having the entire team turn over every 2 years is not the way to go -- think how much angst losing Jon Brockman caused this summer. And in the NBA keeping a team together for chemistry is far more important than it is in the NFL where the plays are scripted.

The entire team would NOT turn over every two years. Losing Jon Brockman wasn't a big deal, especially considering the fact we were able to more than replace him with three new big men that are all better than him. Sentimentality doesn't win games. It's a factor, but losing a loved role player in exchange for winning more is usually acceptable to the fans. Cleveland will never recover from losing LeBron, especially in the way it happened, but I don't think that's reason enough to say to the best players in the world "you'll NEVER be able to choose where you want to play, not as long as we don't let you".

The problem that has opened up has opened up amongst the NBA's elite players, a group that has been trusted to always act in one way, and now may be trending toward acting in a different, counter productive way. So you tailor your response to that group of players and close down the gap. The problem does not need a complete overhaul of the entire set of rules the league is based upon. As an aside, in any previous generation this cherished "right" to abandon the franchise which has put you up on a pedastal was almost never used. How many superstars in their prime left their team in free agency? Shaq. Grant Hill (although that injury ruined his prime). Maybe Moses back in the day? Might have been a trade, I do not recall. Very very few others. This precious cherished "right" was VERY rarely used by the superstar predecessors of today's wayward children. Somehow previous generations got by without it. I'm sure this gorup of wimps will too.

You're acting as if this latest problem is the only one the NBA has. There's several problems with the current free agency rules, not just that a player in his prime has the right to leave in free agency. The primary reason most players never left, at least in the last fifteen years or so, is that players always put money above winning, and Bird rights meant substantially more money.

Previous generations got by without free agency when there weren't millions of dollars involved. Such a different landscape, financially and otherwise, that it's not even worth revisiting. Now you claim players are wimps because they don't want to be told where they are going to play and live for the rest of their careers, and I don't think that makes them wimps at all. I think it makes them just like you and I and everyone else who isn't in the military, where being told where you're going to work and live throughout your career just comes with the territory. I think the players are wimps for a host of different reasons, not because they should be able to earn free agency by fulfilling their obligations.
 
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I would disagree with your definition of collusion. By the simplest definition, collusion is a secret agreement to do something you're not allowed to do. Entities that collude do not want anybody to find out that they did, because that would unmask their breaking of the rules. Kevin McHale and Joe Smith? Collusion.

LeBron, Wade and Bosh cooperated. Now, they didn't tell anybody about it, but that doesn't mean that what they did was disallowed.

And how exactly do we know that Wade didn't let the heat in on this little plan a couple of years ago, so they could put themselves in the right position planning and salary-wise? We have their word they didn't tell anybody? That's not worth much.
 
So other than 3 and 4, you basically have the NFL system without the Franchise tag. Non-guaranteed contracts will lead to players fighting for guaranteed bonuses though which might lead to James Dolan doing Daniel Snyder moves for huge upfront money that can be spread out over multiple years.

I think I addressed that. No heavily front loaded contracts. You can guarantee a portion of the contract if you wish, and that might be necessary for the elite players, as Brick pointed out. But only to a certain extent, as a ratio of the total value of the contract.
 
And how exactly do we know that Wade didn't let the heat in on this little plan a couple of years ago, so they could put themselves in the right position planning and salary-wise? We have their word they didn't tell anybody? That's not worth much.

You still have to prove it. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that that happened, but I don't think it will ever be proved. And according to David Stern, the NBA has no desire to try and find out.
 
You still have to prove it. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that that happened, but I don't think it will ever be proved. And according to David Stern, the NBA has no desire to try and find out.
I whole-heartedly agree with you on both points. Like you, though, I would not be at all surprised if that is what actually happened.
 
And how exactly do we know that Wade didn't let the heat in on this little plan a couple of years ago, so they could put themselves in the right position planning and salary-wise? We have their word they didn't tell anybody? That's not worth much.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Supes on this issue, so I don't have much to add to his response. Of course it's possible that there was more going on behind the scenes than we know - but that's the whole thing. We don't know, and there's no basis for such an accusation. So sure, it's possible that there was some collusion going on here. But the known facts as they stand now simply do not support the accusation of collusion, and that was the point I was arguing.
 
I'm pretty much in agreement with Supes on this issue, so I don't have much to add to his response. Of course it's possible that there was more going on behind the scenes than we know - but that's the whole thing. We don't know, and there's no basis for such an accusation. So sure, it's possible that there was some collusion going on here. But the known facts as they stand now simply do not support the accusation of collusion, and that was the point I was arguing.

You know what? It was discussed. 100% it was discussed. Planned all out? Who know. But discussed.

And now its happening again with Melo and CP3. Amare has discussed it openly. CP3 is off at Melo's wedding urging him to go to New York. Its one of those ridiculously out in the open "wink wink" no we ain't colluding spectacles. And in the end its not really relevant. Collusion, no collusion, friends, whatever. Bad for the league.
 
Not to nitpick, but wikipedia isn't a reliable source if there's no source material supporting a conclusion presented there.


au contraire. a wise man once said..."Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject, so you know you are getting the best possible information."-
michael scott :p
 
You know what? It was discussed. 100% it was discussed. Planned all out? Who know. But discussed.

Of course it was discussed. I never said it wasn't. Under the current rules there's nothing wrong with that. For there to have been collusion, it seems at the very least there would have to have been discussions that included Pat Riley. And that hasn't been shown, or as far as I know, particularly insinuated.
 
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The current system is not broken. There doesn't need to be any drastic changes if any. All the talk of small markets vs big markets is getting overblown. You'd think that small markets have no chance of winning but that's just the opposite. Small markets can field competive teams, and they've won. Sacramento was a competitive team just a few years ago. San Antonio, Oklahoma, Cavs and Orlando are all small market teams that have won or are capable of winning. Small markets might not be big draws for the mega stars but so what. There are other ways of getting a good team together. The only unusual thing that happened in Miami was the caliber of players and instead of two players it was three. Players have talked amongst themselves and joined up in the past. Players recruit others to join them and are even involve in their teams pitches. This is not a phenomenon to be worried about. Nor is it one you can police.

As far as the consequences, the Melo/Paul to NY situation gets brought up a lot. The NBA already has checks on that. Both are under contract. Players of this caliber aren't usually on the market unrestricted all at the same time, and teams don't always have this amount of cap space. The Melo/Paul situation is a perfect example of the hurdles of forming a super team. If Melo doesn't sign an extension, he is free to go where he wants once his contract is up. Paul's contract ends a different year. NY would have to wait for Paul or give up assets they don't have to get Paul sooner.
The issue of players wanting off a team to play for another is not unprecedented. How do you control that through the CBA. When a star player decides they want to be traded there's not much a team can do that doesn't also hurt the team.
 
Superman,

Contracts can be changed. Personally, I really don't think there's anything wrong with "nailing the player to the floor". These guys are getting millions. I have no sympathy for them wanting to move to Miami or wherever to get more sun, more babes, or more advertising dollars. As far as I'm concerned, if you draft 'em, you should be able to keep 'em. You can have player movement through trades, not FA. That would make the draft more important and diminishe the influence of big market teams. I'm sick of hearing about what players want. It's like without FA their life would be filled with oppression and servitude. Cry me a river. I want the fans interests to be primary.

PS The problem with a hard cap and the FA model you propose is that players are still going to NY or Miami or LA because they'll make booku bucks in advertising endorsements in those cities. It still doesn't solve the problem of market forces skewing the fairness of the game.
 
Superman,

Contracts can be changed. Personally, I really don't think there's anything wrong with "nailing the player to the floor". These guys are getting millions. I have no sympathy for them wanting to move to Miami or wherever to get more sun, more babes, or more advertising dollars. As far as I'm concerned, if you draft 'em, you should be able to keep 'em. You can have player movement through trades, not FA. That would make the draft more important and diminishe the influence of big market teams. I'm sick of hearing about what players want. It's like without FA their life would be filled with oppression and servitude. Cry me a river. I want the fans interests to be primary.

Are you talking just the top level players, like Brick is saying? Because it sounds like you're saying every player is bound to the drafting team, until he's traded, cut, whatever. Essentially, get rid of free agency altogether. And that absolutely won't happen.

PS The problem with a hard cap and the FA model you propose is that players are still going to NY or Miami or LA because they'll make booku bucks in advertising endorsements in those cities. It still doesn't solve the problem of market forces skewing the fairness of the game.

Not true. With a hard cap, market forces are diminished because a team can only spend a certain amount of money. Just because Player X wants to go to a big market doesn't mean he can, especially if the team doesn't have cap space for him. Market forces are mostly nonexistent in the NFL with a hard cap.
 
I think just allowing a franchise protection tag on 2 guys is reasonable.

Since Portland is getting an MLS team next year I've been trying to understand their salary cap structure (which is a modified hard-cap that allows teams to sign 2/3 top dollar international caliber players above the maximum pay) and wonder if something like their designated player rule would work in the NBA. Obviously it would look a lot different, but basically you'd have max salaries, a hard cap and then allow for 2 old-rule Bird exceptions per team with a luxury tax on those players' salaries.
 
I think just allowing a franchise protection tag on 2 guys is reasonable.

Since Portland is getting an MLS team next year I've been trying to understand their salary cap structure (which is a modified hard-cap that allows teams to sign 2/3 top dollar international caliber players above the maximum pay) and wonder if something like their designated player rule would work in the NBA. Obviously it would look a lot different, but basically you'd have max salaries, a hard cap and then allow for 2 old-rule Bird exceptions per team with a luxury tax on those players' salaries.

So basically you can't add contracts over the cap, but you can keep and extend your own guys, and you pay a tax on their contracts, instead of on whatever you spend above the threshold? Interesting...

It sounds like the motivation for the exceptions is because MLS wants to add as much international talent as possible to increase viewership and promotions. And once the talent is here, you have to keep paying them. You don't bring over Euro Star X and then ask him to restructure his contract in three years so you can stay under the cap.
 
MLS doesn't have free agency (I don't think) because their contracts are all held by the league itself. So it wouldn't be quite the same thing, just a similar concept of designating 2 players that the salary cap does not apply to. In the MLS the DPs as they are called get written up at the max salary and the team pays the rest of the contract as well as some kind of luxury tax. I think something similar could be adapted using the old Bird rules and the NBA version of the luxury tax.
 
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