Fox Watch 2025
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Yikes. Why isn't he just getting the surgery already? What's he playing for with Wemby out?
eta: 3-16 and their entire backcourt was 6-45
gunks
Hall of Famer
Love to see it!
coolhandluke
Starter
Herb Jones is still out injured and the Pels shut down the entire Spurs backcourt. Just how?Yikes. Why isn't he just getting the surgery already? What's he playing for with Wemby out?
eta: 3-16 and their entire backcourt was 6-45
NewArena
All-Star
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Fox is the least effective 20ppg scorer since the trade according to the guys on Nerd Sheesh
^^^ In a league where RJ Barrett, Miles Bridges and Jordan Poole exist? Ain't no ****ing way.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Have the guys seen Jordan Poole play?
I can't be sure what metric was being used, but Fox has not been super efficient in terms of TS% or eFG% since the trade. Barrett actually appears to have been quite efficient in that time frame, Bridges has done better over that span than his season averages, and Poole's season has been slightly more efficient (using those metrics) because he shoots more threes (hurts his overall shooting percentage but helps his efficiency).
BBref doesn't have game-splits on hand for the advanced stats, but it's actually possible that over that time frame, including only 20+ point scorers, for some reasonable efficiency metric, that this statement is true.
I seem to recall the OP saying "effective," not "efficient." Those are not synonyms, in my Personal Record Book™.
I do not know what the objective measurement of "effectiveness" is, but I'd imagine that a good first pass would be some of the various "efficiency" metrics. I'd be interested to know if the "Nerd Sheesh" people, whoever they are, had something different in mind.
Since the trade, the Spurs have gone 3-5 in the games that Fox has played (with Wembanyama missing the last two). In the same span of time, the Wizards are 1-7. You're not going to convince me that Jordan Poole is more "effective" than DeAaron Fox, efficiency be damned.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
allegedly he has been pretty good this year. I’ve watched so few of their games
Carmicheal Dave and crew on his morning show being critical of fans who booed last night when the upcoming Spurs game was promoted on the big screen. I think fans need to fan however they want without the criticism on this one. Enough things have been said by the Fox/Rich Paul camp that people are going to voice their displeasure.
And him being critical of the dysfunction of the organization can take a back seat for that night. Fox has been front and center and in the middle of the dysfunction. Organization moved Haliburton because Fox wouldn’t make it work, gave h8m an all-star center, signed his best friend who flourished here, re-upped with his head coach in Brown (unless that’s false) signed a future first ballot hall of famer. That doesn’t sound that dysfunctional although there certainly has been issues.
No, for many of the fan base, Fox and agent quit on the org and torpedoed the season all while trying to be the Supermax guy while taking games and quarters off in games. I hope they boo him loudly while cheering HB
And him being critical of the dysfunction of the organization can take a back seat for that night. Fox has been front and center and in the middle of the dysfunction. Organization moved Haliburton because Fox wouldn’t make it work, gave h8m an all-star center, signed his best friend who flourished here, re-upped with his head coach in Brown (unless that’s false) signed a future first ballot hall of famer. That doesn’t sound that dysfunctional although there certainly has been issues.
No, for many of the fan base, Fox and agent quit on the org and torpedoed the season all while trying to be the Supermax guy while taking games and quarters off in games. I hope they boo him loudly while cheering HB
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
Since we're in the context of discussing 20 ppg scorers, we're considering volume a constant. Here, it's reasonable to equate efficiency with effectiveness (at least when we're talking about abilities as a scorer)
I think winning any games with the Wizards roster is a few times more impressive than winning with the Spurs roster, (even with Wemby missing.)
I think giving him total silence is preferable to either but that ain't ever gonna happen.
I agree that the organization attempted to build around Fox as a super star including putting him in the position to earn the supermax - greenlighting him to shoot 3s and re-centering the offense around his skillset - after Domas signed a team friendly extension. I do not know if that also lead to tension and the rumors that Domas was unhappy with Brown - which I am not sure have ever been sourced, or if they in fact came from Fox's camp. But I do really feel like the org handed the reigns over to Fox for him to be the true and unquestioned #1 and he never rose to the challenge and it undid Brown's time here and quite possibly tore apart the franchise in the process.
Yep, it’s understood that Fox’s early years, the org was a mess but not the later years.
As far as Domas, heard a theory that he didn’t get chosen to the al-star team because he was the main source for Brown firing
He didn't get chosen last year either though. It's an anti-Sacramento or an anti-Domas thing. And if everyone loved Brown so much you'd have thought maybe his players would have been honored the year prior.
Pretty obvious what we know now that Fox felt know affinity for Domas so wouldn't be a surprise if he was leaking the dirt on Domas.
To paraphrase a fellow mod, We disagree and don't need to discuss further.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
I mean, sure, we don't, but this is a discussion forum. Not much else to do here. This isn't a Wendy's
I'm even not sure what part you disagree with
Fox is going to get booed the first time he plays at Golden One again and probably quite a few more times after that. It doesn't matter what Dave or anyone else says. Like any fan he can express his opinion but it's not going to hold back the tide and it's obvious that this particular tide is coming. Maybe in time fans will get over it. The sooner the Kings return to being a winning team the less this will matter.
Personally I don't think it's fair to blame Fox for failing to transform the team into a perennial contender. No one else has been able to do it since CWebb and it's been 20 years now since he was playing at an MVP level. I also don't blame Fox for getting fed up with trying after 8 years and bailing on the prospect of starting over with yet another head coach. Mentally he was done. He gave it his best shot, it didn't work, and now he's moved on to something else. He's a third team All NBA guy in a league where you need a first team All NBA guy to win and I don't think there's any shame in that. There was maybe a sliver of a chance for Fox and Domas to compete as second tier stars with a top 5 defense around them but I don't think Monte was on board with that philosophy based on his roster moves so here we are. I don't expect anyone here to agree with me but Fox asking out now before he signs a super max was the honorable way for him to go, in my opinion. He did himself and the Kings a favor.
The deck is stacked against franchises like Sacramento but our leadership has also created their own problems by failing to commit to a front office, a head coach, and a team building strategy that lasts more than 3 years. CWebb had the advantage of stability during his tenure -- stability which no star player in a Sacramento Kings uniform has had before or since. Is that a coincidence or is it a prerequisite for players to perform at their best? Maybe it's nature, maybe it's nurture, maybe it's both. The clock hasn't even started yet on the next head coach. Whoever they are, if they make it to year 3 it will be a minor miracle. That's what I would be booing -- rudderless leadership. Kindof hard to know where to direct that though.
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I can assure you that there is no shortage of topics that we can discuss on this here discussion forum. If you are actually interested in engaging with me in discourse, please ask me about something else.
We could, quite literally, talk about Wendy's.
FWIW, at least one person here agrees with you.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
I agree with your assessment of Fox, but I don't agree with the the rudderless leadership aspect. I think 3 years is a good sized epoch for determining if something has potential, or if something needs to change. Growth and results ought to be rewarded. (And this time, team management apparently committed to a head coach for longer, only for that to be a huge waste of resources.)
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
Usually I think that if someone posts something here, that is an indication that the topic is fair game for discussion.
I like to discuss topics that are interesting or unusual or demonstrate a different perspective. I like to think I've only ever posted in good faith over the past 20+ years. (Though my memory is not perfect.)
Wendy's seems a bit off topic for the NBA forum though
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Chris Webber never played at a league MVP level. He was an All Star and one of the better power forwards in his prime.
Fox could not get the super max, without making All NBA. Once he and his camp conceded that was not going to happen, they orchestrated (forced) the trade. Nothing "honorable" about it. Was text book Rich Paul procedure
Sure, that's one way to look at it. The issue is that one of us appears to be way more interested in debating this particular line of discourse than the other one is. I've said what I have to say on this specific tangent of this particular topic, and the idea of going back-and-forth about it does not appeal to me.
We still have other sub-forums.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
Yeah, when that happens to me I usually just let the other guy get the last word
Through fifty-four games (counting this one), DeAaron Fox is shooting .200 versus the Pelicans, and .476 versus the rest of the league.
He's in the Hall of Fame and finished top 10 in MVP voting for 5 straight seasons (peaking at 4th in 2001). I would call that close enough.
The second part is your interpretation of events which obviously fits the narrative that you've chosen to believe in, perhaps because it's easier to blame the player than to blame the organization. Everyone outside of the Kings fan/media bubble has a different narrative and there are several decades of experience to back it up.
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