Foul differential stat

[King Baller]

One stat I have never payed attention to until this season is foul differential. I looked it up on NBA.com and found out the Kings lead the League with a +5.31 foul differential so far this season. That means on average 5.31 more fouls are called on the Kings per game in comparison to the team they are playing. The next closest team is Toronto at +3.57. The Lakers are the team with the least fouls at -5.15.

Are the Kings foul prone? Is there a conspiracy among the refs? Do the Kings just need to shut the H%$# up and earn respect in this league? Is the NBA showing the Maloofs who is boss?

Why are so many more fouls called on the Kings than the competition?

KB

 

[ESP47]

It'd be interesting to know where the Lakers have placed the last 10 or 15 years with that stat. I'm guessing at or near the top every year.

For our team, it has everything to do with complaining and making stupid mental mistakes. We constantly gamble on steals or get frustrated and turn around and just foul the other team for no reason. Tyreke randomly just fouls guys at the worst possible times. Then you have plays like Thornton diving for a ball and getting called for the foul even though him and the other player got to the ball at the same time. A big part of it is Cousins though. His constant complaining irritates us sitting from home, imagine if you had to hear it in your face during the game? I'd want to call fouls on him to get him out of the game as well. Jason Thompson is starting to get just as bad. Wish they'd all have Tyreke's demeanor when getting called for a foul. Bet you we'd get 2-3 less called a game.

 

[DesertFox]

I would guess there is a relationship between team age and foul rate, as that is a stat that usually improves with experience (and the ref respect that follows).

 

[Fear the Putin]

well, we ***** at every call...

 

[Padrino]

it swings both ways. the kings clearly foul more than most teams, but they also get very few of the same calls in return. as has been mentioned, it is likely due to the age of the team, which correlates to either a) the general referee conception that young players are more likely to commit fouls, and/or b) a lack of referee respect for talented players who have not yet established their reputations in the nba. in each scenario, the referees' subject position rises over the intentions of the rule book. its why i absolutely HATE the way the league has decided to overlegislate with its rule book in the last decade or so. beyond watching the nba go soft as marshmallow in that time, it is obvious that fouls are not called with consistency on a player-to-player basis, which is harmful to the integrity of the game. the nba invites controversy into its game where there need not be any. basketball is a physical sport, and not every little bit of contact necessitates the blowing of the whistle. but, if you're going to call it that way, it should be called more fairly...

the kings are improving modestly from outside, but they are not a shooting team. they spend most of their time at the rim, on the block, and in the painted area. teams that attack the basket, a practice that frequently results in contact, should be getting to the free throw line more often than teams that are built around the outside shot, yet the kings are rarely rewarded for their efforts. we may not like it when evans or johnson or cousins or brooks drive into a defensively-stacked paint, but that kind of tenacity, however ill-advised, is much more consistently rewarded with free throws when it's lebron james attacking, or dwayne wade, or kobe bryant, or etc. etc. etc. clearly those three players are more developed and more talented than any player on the kings, but that's not what we're talking about here. we're talking about the way the game is called, and the kings get jobbed on a daily basis in the paint. players like cousins and, to a lesser extent, jason thompson would be better served not complaining after every call, because nba referees simply do not like calling fouls on behalf of players who attempt to draw them rather than attempt to make an honest play at the rim. but the kings as a team deserve to have the whistles used more scrupulously in their favor, particularly given their complexion as a paint-oriented offense...

 

[Bricklayer]

Yeah, they've been noting that on telecasts and I don't know what to make of it. Some of it is us fouling too much -- we're young and hack prone. But as far as us not drawing fouls -- we're Top 5 in the league in points in the paint. Our two best players are very physical players who love to pound the ball inside. This isn't a case of a jumpshooting team not being able to get to the line. Its hard to explain.

 

[treach1976]

The lack of ability to draw fouls in the paint may just be an experience thing. Guys like DWade / LeBron / Kobe, are better at drawing a guy into a foul, and often go at them intending to draw the foul rather than get the shot. Our young guys are either not as crafty as those guys at drawing fouls, or just looking to score. Big men try to avoid fouls and will give up the shot more often than taking a foul.

 

[ppine]

It is fairly easy to see that the Kings do not play good team defense. They give up a lot of transition baskets. The fundamentals of some players are not that good and they use their hands too much instead of using their feet to get into position. All of these things contribute to the high level of fouls that they give up on average. They get little respect from the refs due to their poor record and players with an attitude, primarily Cousins.

On offense against teams with good defense like San Antonio, the Kings get caught throwing up long range awkward shots, and called for 24 sec violations. The Kings are a good offense rebounding team and score a lot in the paint. I do not know the reason that doesn't translate into more foul shots. A few more victories would be likely to increase the amount of calls that go in the Kings favor.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Aside from a few total BS calls every game, I'm not surprised we get called for fouls a lot. But as brick said we have been a inside the paint team..... considering how much we drive the ball, the lack of calls we get is disgusting. I think Tyreke could pick up more fouls by actually absorbing the contact on his drives rather than trying to pull fancy moves and avoid it... I think this also causes many of his misses when he is at the basket. Cousins and Thornton don't get calls nearly enough though.

 

[LWP777]

It'd be interesting to know where the Lakers have placed the last 10 or 15 years with that stat. I'm guessing at or near the top every year.

For our team, it has everything to do with complaining and making stupid mental mistakes. We constantly gamble on steals or get frustrated and turn around and just foul the other team for no reason. Tyreke randomly just fouls guys at the worst possible times. Then you have plays like Thornton diving for a ball and getting called for the foul even though him and the other player got to the ball at the same time. A big part of it is Cousins though. His constant complaining irritates us sitting from home, imagine if you had to hear it in your face during the game? I'd want to call fouls on him to get him out of the game as well. Jason Thompson is starting to get just as bad. Wish they'd all have Tyreke's demeanor when getting called for a foul. Bet you we'd get 2-3 less called a game.

+10000000. Like you said, it's a lot of stilly frustration fouls and mental mistakes. At least 3-4 unnecessary fouls per game. DMC had 2 in the loss to Utah in the last couple of minutes where he was frustrated after missing a shot or turning it over and he would whack a guy, which put them at the line for 2 shots. Game over.

This is an area that makes this team so much less enjoyable to watch. They just aren't very smart on the court. I guess I was spoiled watching the great Kings teams early in the 2000's. They were one of smartest teams OF ALL TIME and played incredibly well as a team together.

We have no leaders. Our most talented players are younger guys who have very poor judgement and zero composure. I still say we need to blow the team up. I just don't see this nucleus ever getting us deep into the playoffs.

 

[origkds]

+10000000. Like you said, it's a lot of stilly frustration fouls and mental mistakes. At least 3-4 unnecessary fouls per game. DMC had 2 in the loss to Utah in the last couple of minutes where he was frustrated after missing a shot or turning it over and he would whack a guy, which put them at the line for 2 shots. Game over.

This is an area that makes this team so much less enjoyable to watch. They just aren't very smart on the court. I guess I was spoiled watching the great Kings teams early in the 2000's. They were one of smartest teams OF ALL TIME and played incredibly well as a team together.

We have no leaders. Our most talented players are younger guys who have very poor judgement and zero composure. I still say we need to blow the team up. I just don't see this nucleus ever getting us deep into the playoffs.

I completely disagree with the bolded part of your statement above. I try not to look at this team through rose colored glasses but I honestly think we have enough talent to create a very competitive product. I also think we have players on this team now that we could only dream about a few years ago. Could we use another piece or two? Always. But what we need even more is structure. These players need to be shown what to do and be held accountable if they don't do as they're told. They need a strict disciplinarian that they respect (maybe even fear a little) . They need to have their individual roles clearly defined and they need rotations that make sense. Show me these fundamentals of basketball before you decide to blow up this team.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, they've been noting that on telecasts and I don't know what to make of it. Some of it is us fouling too much -- we're young and hack prone. But as far as us not drawing fouls -- we're Top 5 in the league in points in the paint. Our two best players are very physical players who love to pound the ball inside. This isn't a case of a jumpshooting team not being able to get to the line. Its hard to explain.

Smart and the coaching staff want the Kings to play defense more aggressively. Well, one of the results of that, expecially with a young team is more fouls. Lets face it, the Kings didn't come into this season with a reputation of being a good defensive team. Teams that do have that rep, tend to get more leeway from the ref's. I think eventually the Kings will work their way through it and start to get the ref's respect as a team thats playing hard on the defensive side of the ball.

As for complaining! Yeah, it would be nice if no one on the team complained, but thats simply not reality in the NBA. It happens to be worse at the moment for the Kings because of Cousins reputation. But I watch a lot of NBA basketball, and trust me, complaining isn't unique to the Kings. Dwight Howard and Kobe both scowl and complain. As does Gasol. LeBron lobbies every foul called on him. Dirk constantly complains. It all depends on what a player can get away with, and a players demeanor. Some like Tyreke are fine just walking away, but others let their emotions decide their actions.

Would it be better if Cuz just smiled and walked away? Damm right it would, especially for him. But don't single him out as the one bad complainer in the NBA. He just happens to be the target right now. The NBA is loaded with players that complain after every foul.

 

[Bricklayer]

We have no leaders. Our most talented players are younger guys who have very poor judgement and zero composure. I still say we need to blow the team up. I just don't see this nucleus ever getting us deep into the playoffs.

You should have seen our oh so smart team nucleus at 22 years old. You could have had Webber calling phantom timeouts, fighting with his coach, and smoking doobies, Vlade getting scolded by Magic Johnson for not playing or training hard enough, JWill wildly chucking threes and toking up with Webb in back, Christie playing drama queen in the draft and forcing a trade before he did jack or squat. BJax getting immediately traded because he was a ballhog who pounded the ball in the floor, just etc.

People are silly. Youth = these sorts of problems. When you build with youth you look for talent, not polish. The polish comes the same way it comes for all of us: through experience.

 

[bajaden]

You should have seen our oh so smart team nucleus at 22 years old. You could have had Webber calling phantom timeouts, fighting with his coach, and smoking doobies, Vlade getting scolded by Magic Johnson for not playing or training hard enough, JWill wildly chucking threes and toking up with Webb in back, Christie playing drama queen in the draft and forcing a trade before he did jack or squat. BJax getting immediately traded because he was a ballhog who pounded the ball in the floor, just etc.

People are silly. Youth = these sorts of problems. When you build with youth you look for talent, not polish. The polish comes the same way it comes for all of us: through experience.

Very well said!

 

[Padrino]

You should have seen our oh so smart team nucleus at 22 years old. You could have had Webber calling phantom timeouts, fighting with his coach, and smoking doobies, Vlade getting scolded by Magic Johnson for not playing or training hard enough, JWill wildly chucking threes and toking up with Webb in back, Christie playing drama queen in the draft and forcing a trade before he did jack or squat. BJax getting immediately traded because he was a ballhog who pounded the ball in the floor, just etc.

People are silly. Youth = these sorts of problems. When you build with youth you look for talent, not polish. The polish comes the same way it comes for all of us: through experience.

 

[Hayesfan]

Actually that's not true the rockets are one of if not the youngest team and they have a much better rate than the Kings... I would say its because the kings play gambling defense

 

[LWP777]

You should have seen our oh so smart team nucleus at 22 years old. You could have had Webber calling phantom timeouts, fighting with his coach, and smoking doobies, Vlade getting scolded by Magic Johnson for not playing or training hard enough, JWill wildly chucking threes and toking up with Webb in back, Christie playing drama queen in the draft and forcing a trade before he did jack or squat. BJax getting immediately traded because he was a ballhog who pounded the ball in the floor, just etc.

People are silly. Youth = these sorts of problems. When you build with youth you look for talent, not polish. The polish comes the same way it comes for all of us: through experience.

Maybe. The problem with this is that all those players needed a change of scenery before they settled in, grew up, and played great basketball. The other problem with your analysis is that you are comparing Webber, Vlade, JWill, Christie, and BJax to DMC, Evans, Jimmer, etc. I hope you realize that the talent level with the first group is on a completely different level than our current nucleus. Vlade and Chris have their jerseys hanging from the Arco rafters. I really can't envision that happening anywhere for DMC or Evans.

Everything started by somehow pulling off the Richmond for Webber trade. Once it was apparent that Chris was going to stay and be a complete beast everything fell into place. If we keep on our current path and try to surround DMC and Tyreke with other pieces it's nothing more than attempting to put a square peg in a round hole.

 

[Padrino]

Maybe. The problem with this is that all those players needed a change of scenery before they settled in, grew up, and played great basketball. The other problem with your analysis is that you are comparing Webber, Vlade, JWill, Christie, and BJax to DMC, Evans, Jimmer, etc. I hope you realize that the talent level with the first group is on a completely different level than our current nucleus. Vlade and Chris have their jerseys hanging from the Arco rafters. I really can't envision that happening anywhere for DMC or Evans.

Everything started by somehow pulling off the Richmond for Webber trade. Once it was apparent that Chris was going to stay and be a complete beast everything fell into place. If we keep on our current path and try to surround DMC and Tyreke with other pieces it's nothing more than attempting to put a square peg in a round hole.

ladies and gentlemen, there it is!! LWP777's got a crystal ball!! now that we know these kings will not live up to their potential, will never develop any chemistry, have zero chance of becoming all-stars, we can just abandon ship, trade 'em all, start over, then rinse and repeat with the next group of young players we draft, sign, or trade for...

 

[LWP777]

ladies and gentlemen, there it is!! LWP777's got a crystal ball!! now that we know these kings will not live up to their potential, will never develop any chemistry, have zero chance of becoming all-stars, we can just abandon ship, trade 'em all, start over, then rinse and repeat with the next group of young players we draft, sign, or trade for...

This site is full of crystal balls. That's the point of it, right? We all have our opinions. I wish my opinion of this Kings team was different. I wish we could be talking about how to win the championship and not how to be a .500 team.

 

[Padrino]

This site is full of crystal balls. That's the point of it, right? We all have our opinions. I wish my opinion of this Kings team was different. I wish we could be talking about how to win the championship and not how to be a .500 team.

i just find your displeasure completely misplaced. the underachievement of these kings is rather obviously due to an utter lack of synergy between ownership, management, and coaching. they're all ill-equipped to rebuild this franchise, and for different reasons: ownership's priorities are not basketball-related, as they operate on the cheap while trying to relocate the team, management is comfortably numb to their own stasis, and the coaching staff is woefully inexperienced. its hard to win when nobody's on the same page. look at the structure of the kings teams from the early 00's, and you will see synergy from the top down: ownership believed in its management, and shelled out the bucks to retain its players. management believed in its coaching staff, and provided the talent needed to augment the team further. and that talent likewise believed in its coaching staff, in its management, and in its ownership. there was a governing philosophy of sacramento kings basketball once upon a time, and the entire franchise rode it in the direction of greatness. they came up short, but it was the noblest of efforts for a small market franchise to endeavor in...

unfortunately, each link in that chain has since been severed, and the result is what you see. the maloofs are not the kind of owners they used to be. geoff petrie is not the kind of gm he used to be. and no kings coach since rick adelman has had even the smallest fraction of his basketball acumen. it is a mistake, then, to assume that the current kings centerpieces are the problem, or are at a lack for talent. chris webber came to sacramento as a volatile all-star level big man. however, with the grace and support of his coaches, his gm, and his ownership group, he became one of the league's good guys, as well as one of the greatest PF's of his generation. do you honestly believe demarcus cousins, a volatile big man with all-star potential, is getting that same fair shake from the kings organization as it stands today? not one individual from anywhere within the organization has offered unsolicited support for demarcus yet this season, troubled as it has been for him. not one...

so here's the rundown: if you have a center capable of averaging 20, 12, and 3 in the near future, and a guard capable of averaging 20, 5, and 5 in the near future (having done it once already), as well as a sixth man who can light up the box score on any given night, you quite simply do not quit on them before you've witnessed how far they might take you, ownership, management, and coaching deficiencies aside. if you roll the dice and fail, at least you had a shot at greatness. that said, shipping them all off ASAP would be as shortsighted a move as the nba has recently seen. not to mention these kings are too young and too unproven to demand the kind of return that would help this franchise restart yet another rebuild, and again, with owners unwilling to fully commit to their franchise. what would be the point? i mean, we've already seen what happens when you trade big talent for "flexible pieces." personally, i would much rather sit at the basement of the league with a couple of players that might catapult me into a championship race someday than spin my wheels at the 7th or 8th seed with a bunch of mediocre talent and "flexible pieces"...