Floyd Landis - Tour de France

#1
Maybe no one else in here is a TouR de France fan, but I just had to come in and say WOW!!!!!

One of the greatest single day rides in Tour history. The OLN guys were darn near speechless as they waited almost 6 minutes for the second place finisher. Six freakin' MINUTES! That's an eternity in the Tour. I mean they were flabbergasted. It got goosebumps watching it.

Now Landis is just 30 seconds behind the leader and in third place in the GC. He's an excellent time-trialist, so has a real shot at winning this race on Saturday.

Just WOW!!!!!:D

Of course, there are some folks already speculating on how he recovered so fast from yesterday, when he completely cracked. Good lord. :rolleyes: :mad: The man is just, blue-collar, hard-working and has had to work for everything.

I wish him the best of luck. He has to have a hip replacement after the race and he may never be able to be this competitive again (tho one can hope)

GO GET 'EM FLOYD!!!!
 
#3
With Lance off the radar now, I didn't watch much of any of the TDF early on. But I've viewed most of the last 4 stages and it has truly been incredible. I'll be watching tomorow morning to see if Floyd can snag the yellow jersey back for the ride into Paris.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#5
Okay, anyone want to take any bets on just how happy the French media who relentlessly pursued Armstrong feel about this?

Any predictions on how long it will take them to start the smear campaign against Landis?

GREAT effort on the part of Floyd Landis!
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#7
From 11th to winning with about 3? stages left. That is quite an accomplishment.

Yes, VF21, the French media will be all over this in no time.
 
#11
Wow, truly amazing how he almost entirely made up an 8:00 minute deficit in one stage. That was incredible. This off season he has to have hip replacement surgery, (you'll recall he did permanent damage to his hip after crashing on it, breaking it, and still pulling Lance up a climb as a domestique during one of his victories,) so it will be interesting to see how he returns from that. Much like the Webber saga, the surgery has the ability to make him better then ever, or it could end his career. Keep your fingers crossed.
 
#12
Okay, anyone want to take any bets on just how happy the French media who relentlessly pursued Armstrong feel about this?

Any predictions on how long it will take them to start the smear campaign against Landis?

GREAT effort on the part of Floyd Landis!
Actually, it didn't take long. The same day he had that remarkable comeback there were some folks wondering how he managed to do that. And I mean "wondering" in the sense that he might have done something illegal. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad:

On the other hand, they say that many Europeans were cheering and congratulating him, even tho they had hoped another country had won. They were just so impressed with his heart. And he is such an unassuming and modest person. They like that better than what they perceived as Lance's arrogance. I don't agree with their opinion on Lance, however.

I am just thrilled for Landis. It was an incredible race those last few stages. But I must admit, it made me realize just how dominating Armstrong was. This race was all over the place, while Lance absolutley controlled and dominated his races.

I really hope Floyd comes back better than ever. I'd like to see him do it again.:D
 
#15
the issue in the tour de france has nothing to do with the world being against the us (which, unfortunately, is a cold fact). that doping stuff has gotten so much out of hand that this year all the favorites (if i am not wrong the top 5 of last year) had to pull from the race, most probably fearing that they will test positive. and say what you want, i am almost certain that armstrong, a very mediocre cyclist before his cancer treatment, had some special assistance. and yes, this drug stuff is not exclusive to cycling. just look at how many so called world record holders had to pull from the last olympics once the committee enhanced the list of forbidden drugs. all those balding ladies, all those hunks with ripping muscles, there is a limit to what a human being normally become after all.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#16
Okay, they found high levels of testosterone so he's guilty of doping?

I think I need to go back to school. There's no natural way that could happen?
 
#17
Okay, they found high levels of testosterone so he's guilty of doping?

I think I need to go back to school. There's no natural way that could happen?
That is just the dilemma. Well, I should say, just one of the dilemma's when it comes to performance enhancing drugs in sports. I am telling you - this whole thing is a can of worms.
 
#18
Okay, they found high levels of testosterone so he's guilty of doping?

I think I need to go back to school. There's no natural way that could happen?
You have a certain interval in which your testosterone level is deemed "normal". I'm pretty sure they've researched these boundaries.

Basically, his testosterone level was "abnormal" by medical standards. There's probably no natural way for a human being to achieve such levels.

Btw, a dutch teammate of Landis, said that Landis went to see a physician to seek relief for his (recurring) hip problems. The physician might have given him something that caused a peak in his testosterone levels.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
On the news tonight, they mentioned that there was suspicion he had taken something on the course. They then talked to an expert who said there's no way something could be absorbed that quickly and have an impact. He said something about it would take months, not hours...

And they did mention there are natural causes that CAN, in rare circumstances, lead to abnormal levels.

I hope he's vindicated.
 
#20
On the news tonight, they mentioned that there was suspicion he had taken something on the course. They then talked to an expert who said there's no way something could be absorbed that quickly and have an impact. He said something about it would take months, not hours...

And they did mention there are natural causes that CAN, in rare circumstances, lead to abnormal levels.

I hope he's vindicated.
Well, it depends on what you belief in really.

It probably can be caused in rare circumstances here, but we're talking about a probability P<<<0.001. Not just rare, but *extremely *rare.

Also, the effect depends on the type of testosterone injection. One type (Cypionate) has a pretty much an immediate effect. Its effect reaches a peak at 1-2 days, I believe.

The effect would be beneficial in terms of aggressiveness and will. The body will also recover faster. According a swedish (non-French! Don't think the French sentiment is found across all Europeans) cycle physician (for 20 years), effect can be seen within 24h if properly dosed.

You can run this through Babelfish if you like.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/ettor/webb/26_normal.html
 
#21
Apparently there are allowable drugs that can cause problems. Cortisone is one of them and Landis was taking it for his hip. Supposedly, they cleared his taking it before the race.

I wasn't listening to the whole thing closely, but apparently it is quite common for a cyclist to be suspended upon a finding and then later have it cleared as caused by a drug on the approved list. So we really have to wait on this. I hope it isn't true. That would be sad.

They said Armstrong wouldn't take any (approved) antihistamines for fear of having it cause a testing problem. Supposedly Armstrong is the most tested athelete in the world and has passed over 300 tests.
 
#22
Basically, his testosterone level was "abnormal" by medical standards.

This is not quite true. His testosterone level was actually well within limits. He failed a ratio test of testosterone to epitestosterone. The whole thing gets complicated as heck. You really need a Ph.D. in this stuff to understand all of it. The chances of a false positive test are very low, yet still possible. It is the number of false negatives out there that concerns me.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#28
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html

Floyd denies cheating
Landis says he didn't dope during Tour de France
Posted: Thursday July 27, 2006 3:46PM; Updated: Friday July 28, 2006 12:30PM

by Austin Murphy - Inside the Tour de France

Floyd Landis says he didn't do it -- didn't inject testosterone, didn't apply a testosterone patch to any part of his body. Floyd Landis just returned my call, and I asked him straight up: "Did you do it, bro?"

He said, "No, c'mon man," in what would turn out to be the first of several denials.

I want very badly to believe him.

Landis had been crying. Not for himself -- he'd just gotten off the phone with his mother, Arlene, who has been driven from the family home in Farmersville, Pa., by reporters scavenging for quotes. "I know it's their job," he said, sadly, "but they need to leave her out of this."

The A sample from the urine test to which he submitted after Stage 17 shows "an unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone." Landis told me he "can't be hopeful" that the B sample will be any different than the A. "I'm a realist," he said.

Landis says that an elevated level of testosterone is different from a positive test. He says this is a fairly common problem among pro cyclists. He's retaining the services of a Spanish doctor named Luis Hernandez, who has helped other riders shown by tests to have elevated levels of testosterone. "In hundreds of cases," Landis told me, "no one's ever lost one."

It's too early to tell if he's going to be on solid footing or if he's clutching at straws. The next step, he says, is to submit to an endocrine test that may help him prove that he just happens to be a guy walking around with an inordinate amount of testosterone in his blood.

He raised the possibility that the cortisone shots he's been taking for his ravaged right hip -- the hip he'll soon have replaced -- may have had some effect on the test. Then he revealed this: "I've had a thyroid condition for the last year or so and have been taking small amounts of thyroid hormone. It's an oral dose, once a day."

He raised the possibility that that medication may have skewed the test that appears to damn him.

He knows how bad this looks, and told me, "I wouldn't hold it against somebody if they don't believe me."

I don't know what to believe. I was surprised he returned my call.

"You were there when nobody else was," he told me, "so I thought I'd better call you back."

He was talking about a visit I paid to the team bus a week ago today. The day before -- in what had been his lowest moment in many weeks -- Landis appeared to have ridden himself off the podium and out of the top 10. As the Tour had unfolded, as he'd taken the lead and then relinquished it, then cracked spectacularly, he had not seemed like a rider under the influence of performance-enhancing drugs. In fact, the French were down on him for racing too conservatively, for not attacking or going for stage wins.

The next morning I went by the Phonak team bus (as I wrote in my Tour dispatch a week ago). It was eerily deserted, Landis having already been dubbed irrelevant. He sat on the steps of the bus and we chatted. After his incredible ride that day, I was a little embarrassed by what I'd said: I told him I respected that he'd finished the stage, no matter how long it took. I told him I looked forward to seeing what he did in the final time trial -- something about silver linings.

He smiled, and told me, basically, that he expected to make up some of that time that afternoon. He told me he was feeling better.

He went out rode himself into the lore of the Tour.

What to make of that ride now?

Anyone who follows this sport and professes to be blindsided by allegations of this nature risks sounding like Captain Renault in Casablanca ("I'm shocked -- shocked! -- to find that gambling is going on in here!"). You wonder sometimes if, in cycling, the clean riders are not, in fact, the minority. The purge that marked the start of this race -- 13 riders were ejected after being implicated in a Spanish doping investigation called OperaciĆ³n Puerto -- confirmed cycling's status as one of the dirtiest sports in the world.

But there was this hope -- was it naive, Floyd? -- that les coureurs that they didn't kick out were riding clean. And Landis had such a wholesome, heroic story: the rebel from Pennsylvania Dutch country who carved a career for himself despite tall odds -- the disapproving parents; the three teams that folded beneath him, felled by bankruptcy; the bum hip, which caused him so much pain that after some stages last year, he came close to vomiting.

Even before Landis finished Stage 17, when he pulled back most of the time he had lost the previous day, the whispers had begun. Allen Lim, Landis' trainer, took pains in the days that followed to point out that the effort put forth by Landis in that heroic, Tour-saving stage was generally in line with "what he's done in training." The anomaly had been the bonk the previous day.

Then you read what German doctor Kurt Moosburger recently told Cyclingnews.com: "You can do a hard Alpine stage without doping. But after that, the muscles are exhausted. You need -- depending on your training conditions -- up to three days in order to regenerate."

To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr. Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone patch that is used for male hormone-replacement therapy on your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body actually recovers faster."

It would be funny -- if it weren't heartbreaking -- to think that as he sat outside the team hotel last Wednesday night, explaining his collapse, Landis was already getting a little help from a patch on a tender part of his anatomy.

So I flat-out asked him if he'd done the patch thing, and he told me he hadn't. All he can do now is wait for the B sample and, after that, hope another test proves that he's in a very elevated percentile of men, who go through life with more than their share of testosterone.

Meanwhile, I've got this passage in my Tour story in this week's Sports Illustrated: "Landis' epic ride on July 19 did not just succeed beyond all expectations, putting him in striking distance of the lead, which he seized for good in the Tour's final time trial two days later. It provided a gleaming counterweight to the doping scandal that had overshadowed this Tour since the day before it began."

Gleaming counterweight. That phrase will mock me for months, if not longer, unless Landis is able to convince us that it's all a great misunderstanding.

Floyd says he didn't do it, and I want very badly to believe him.