[Rumor] Fisher: Kings “expected to gauge trade market” for DeMar DeRozan

[iowamcnabb]

Then so be it. If the Kings can get out of the DeRozan deal and some draft capital I think that's a decent get regardless. Much better than gambling on a Jrue Holiday who you might be stuck with during a transition period. I'll take the contract year guy who was once putting up near star level productivity. It it doesn't work you send him on his merry way. Because of the desperation moves made under Monte the Kings unfortunately have to be looking at more low risk short term moves exclusively and this would be one.

The problem is scary terry isn’t really a defender. If we are starting Sabonis and Lavine the point guard has to be able to defend. If I’m not giving up draft capital I’d rather have Jrue. Having said that I’d prob just let Devin take a crack at the job and look to move Deebo for more size

 

[twslam07]

Rozier has been really really bad for the last couple of seasons to the point that Miami fans were sure that he was intentionally throwing games (he’s also still under investigation for gambling allegations if I’m not mistaken). The man’s only value might be as a big expiring to package for a bigger contract.

Yeah I doubt Rozier becomes a player we can rely on. I’d have him behind Monk, LaVine, Ellis, and Carter in our guard depth chart. I’d value him strictly as an expiring in a trade so the question would be what is MIA attaching to Rozier to get DeRozan?

I’m a huge Jovic fan and think he still has room to get better. He…

- Is still very young as he’s only 21 (will be 22 at the start of next season)
- Has great size & length (6’9.5” w/o shoes, 7’0.25” wingspan, & 9’0.5” standing reach)
- Is a good shooter
- Is a good passer
- Is a pretty good & efficient scorer
- Has decent advanced impact stats (but also pretty impressive considering he’s 21)

The Heat would have DeRozan, Wiggins, Jaquez, Robinson, Highsmith, Anderson, Ware, Love, & Adebayo to log min in the frontcourt so it’s not the end of the world if they move off Jovic. On top of that, Jovic will be a RFA the following offseason and could receive a considerable raise while Adebayo’s new max kicks in and while still having big contracts in Herro, Wiggins, and DeRozan on the books. They might prefer keeping a cheap future 1st over a non-rookie scale Jovic.

If we pair that trade (DeRozan for Rozier/Jovic) with the following trade…

Malik Monk

For

PJ Washington
Jaden Hardy

…and then resign LaRavia, we all of a sudden have a lot more size, length, defense, & shooting…

PG - Ellis / Carter / Rozier
SG - LaVine / Hardy / Davis
SF - Murray / LaRavia
PF - Washington / Jovic
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Jones

Then the following offseason, Rozier’s contract comes off the books giving us more cap space to help make the money work when we have to give Murray, Washington, and Jovic new deals.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

If the Kings are desperate for a PG still, Rozier straight across works. Is he any more PG than what the Kings have already? Meh. He's fallen hard the last few seasons but he'd be a solid gamble and get the Kings out of the DDR deal ASAP. Historically he's also had years of good defense, maybe that can be coached back up. If the Kings could get Rozier and a first that would be more than one would probably expect.

Bro I know that doesn’t say rozier

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Yeah I doubt Rozier becomes a player we can rely on. I’d have him behind Monk, LaVine, Ellis, and Carter in our guard depth chart. I’d value him strictly as an expiring in a trade so the question would be what is MIA attaching to Rozier to get DeRozan?

I’m a huge Jovic fan and think he still has room to get better. He…

- Is still very young as he’s only 21 (will be 22 at the start of next season)
- Has great size & length (6’9.5” w/o shoes, 7’0.25” wingspan, & 9’0.5” standing reach)
- Is a good shooter
- Is a good passer
- Is a pretty good & efficient scorer
- Has decent advanced impact stats (but also pretty impressive considering he’s 21)

The Heat would have DeRozan, Wiggins, Jaquez, Robinson, Highsmith, Anderson, Ware, Love, & Adebayo to log min in the frontcourt so it’s not the end of the world if they move off Jovic. On top of that, Jovic will be a RFA the following offseason and could receive a considerable raise while Adebayo’s new max kicks in and while still having big contracts in Herro, Wiggins, and DeRozan on the books. They might prefer keeping a cheap future 1st over a non-rookie scale Jovic.

If we pair that trade (DeRozan for Rozier/Jovic) with the following trade…

Malik Monk

For

PJ Washington
Jaden Hardy

…and then resign LaRavia, we all of a sudden have a lot more size, length, defense, & shooting…

PG - Ellis / Carter / Rozier
SG - LaVine / Hardy / Davis
SF - Murray / LaRavia
PF - Washington / Jovic
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Jones

Then the following offseason, Rozier’s contract comes off the books giving us more cap space to help make the money work when we have to give Murray, Washington, and Jovic new deals.

They love Jokic no chance they trade him for Derozan maybe for Durant if pushed. They love Rozier talk is pure madness he’s not even an nba caliber player anymore

 

[SacTownKid]

The problem is scary terry isn’t really a defender. If we are starting Sabonis and Lavine the point guard has to be able to defend. If I’m not giving up draft capital I’d rather have Jrue. Having said that I’d prob just let Devin take a crack at the job and look to move Deebo for more size

Rozier was at one point. It's been years though. Either way Rozier nor Jrue are changing jack crap as some sort of guarantee so paying on a 1 year contract of 26 million vs. 100+ million for a non guaranteed mover is easy choice IMO. Even if both came with a pick, that expiring is the far more prudent move with the lowest risk. If Jrue doesn't change much for the Kings in the tough West then the reality is they are either stuck with him or probably going to have to attach some sort of assets to him themselves if they want out. In a vacuum Jrue would be a great choice, but that vacuum is filled with the anchor that is his contract.

 

[SacTownKid]

Bro I know that doesn’t say rozier

A pick and an expiring, yes, take it all day and run regardless of what name is attached to it. If DeRozan wants to go to Miami that is. This is a probably a situation where DeMar will get to pick his landing spot. So, when he lands in LA for Kleber/filler you can wish for Rozier/pick, lol. Face facts, this is likely going to be a very disappointing return yet again unless the Kings are willing to stick it to DeMar or he has no desire to go somewhere specific. The Heat rumors are clear and obvious considering they were supposedly the lead competition for DeMar last offseason.

 

[twslam07]

Rozier was at one point. It's been years though. Either way Rozier nor Jrue are changing jack crap as some sort of guarantee so paying on a 1 year contract of 26 million vs. 100+ million for a non guaranteed mover is easy choice IMO. Even if both came with a pick, that expiring is the far more prudent move with the lowest risk. If Jrue doesn't change much for the Kings in the tough West then the reality is they are either stuck with him or probably going to have to attach some sort of assets to him themselves if they want out. In a vacuum Jrue would be a great choice, but that vacuum is filled with the anchor that is his contract.

I don't think Jrue's contract is as big of a concern as you think it is after looking at the numbers and how we can leverage his contract down the road.

First off, Jrue is still a very impactful player...

• VPM = 58th
• DPM = 102nd
• LEBRON = 124th
• 2Y RAPM = 124th
• eRAPTOR = 120th
• MAMBA = 130th
• EPM = 87th

...which helps with the owner's mandate of wanting to compete now.

On top of his impact, he's a terrific fit for the current roster, Perry/Christie's vision, and the culture we want to build in SAC. He gives the Kings someone...

• Who can play PG and help run the offense
• Who is still effective off ball (important when LaVine and Sabonis are handling the rock)
• Who is an elite defender who can easily defend multiple positions (allowing us to hide LaVine better on that end)
• Who can provide some scoring (important if we move on from Monk and/or DeRozan)
• Who can space the floor (important when LaVine is attacking the paint or when Sabonis is operating in the paint)
• With championship experience who can help establish a tough, hard working, defensive culture
• Who can help mentor Ellis and Carter both offensively and defensively and can progressively hand over the reigns over the coming years

Now that we have established that...

• He is still an impactful player that aligns with Vivek's mandate of competing
• He is a terrific fit for the current roster which further helps Vivek's mandate of competing
• He can help establish the vision/culture that Perry/Christie have made pubilc
• He can mentor our future/young guards (Ellis and Carter)

...the only valid concerns are his age and his contract, but we seem to disagree on the size of those concerns.

His age can certainly affect his impact on the floor. It's natural to think he'll be less and less impactful as he ages, but considering how impactful he was just this past year, it would take a cliff like scenario for him to all of a sudden become someone that doesn't contribute to winning on the court. It's not impossible, but I don't think it's likely.


So that leaves us with the original point of contention I raised...the contract.

For the sake of this discussion, I need to make a few assumptions/decisions...

• This offseason, trade DeMar DeRozan, Malik Monk, & 2026 CHA 2nd for Jrue Holiday, PJ Washington, Dwight Powell, & #28 (DeMar DeRozan, Malik Monk, & 2026 CHA 2nd go to DAL and Klay Thompson & Naji Marshall go to BOS)
• This offseason, decline Keon Ellis' option and resign him to a contract in line with Herb Jones contract.
• Next offseason, resign Murray to a contract in line with Trey Murphy's contract
• Next offseason, resign PJ Washington to a contract around $20 mil/year

That leaves us with 12 players under contract (Holiday, Carter, LaVine, Ellis, Davis, Murray, Washington, Jones, Sabonis, Valanciunas, Powell, & #28) while still being $8.4 mil under the 1st apron and $20.4 mil under the 2nd apron.

The following season, we'd have 10 players under contract (Holiday, Carter, LaVine, Ellis, Murray, Washington, Sabonis, Valanciunas, #28, & 2026 SAC 1st) while still being $4.9 mil under the 1st apron and $17.9 mil under the 2nd apron.

The following season, we'd have 10 players under contract (Holiday, Carter, Ellis, Murray, Washington, Sabonis, #28, 2026 SAC 1st, 2027 SAC 1st, & 2027 SAS 1st) while still being $66.2 mil under the 1st apron and $80.5 mil under the 2nd apron.

And then the following season, Holiday is off the books (just in time for when Carter needs a new contract). As you can see, we wouldn't really be running into apron issues with this type of trade so there shouldn't really be a concern.


Now the other contention is that Holiday's contract will be an anchor when trying to make other moves to improve. Again, the math on the apron's don't seem to suggest that and I would still project his impact on the court to be positive over the next couple of years. On top of that, Jrue is very versatile so if we do end up trading for a big star PG, Holiday has shown that he can be effective on ball and play next to high usage star players.

The last thing that I like about his contract is that it staggers two big expiring contracts giving Perry some flexibility when trying to trade for a big star.

More specifically, LaVine will be an expiring next offseason. Perry can see what is out there with LaVine's ending salary as an attractive contract for a team that is looking to cut ties with their star and reset/rebuild. If he doesn't find that type of trade, well then you have Holiday's big contract to use as a matching expiring salary the following offseason to try and find that type of player.

I think most of us agree that we're not going to be signing a big star with cap space so leveraging staggered expiring contracts across the coming years and keeping our 1sts close to the vest allow us to to keep our options open and pounce when the time is right. In the meantime, you have Jrue providing all of the benefits I listed above at the beginning of my post.





And just to visualize the roster going into next year, it would look like the following....

PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - LaVine / Ellis / Davis
SF - Murray
PF - Washington / Jones
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Powell
Picks - #28 / #45

 

[Tetsujin]

Ya know, one thing that I did sorta forget is that the Knicks were trying pretty hard to get Jrue from the Pels back when that whole trade market opened up around the pandemic to pair him with Julius Randle and RJ Barrett and their new defensive-minded head coach (Thibs).

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1927788712412229741

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't think Jrue's contract is as big of a concern as you think it is after looking at the numbers and how we can leverage his contract down the road.

First off, Jrue is still a very impactful player...

• VPM = 58th
• DPM = 102nd
• LEBRON = 124th
• 2Y RAPM = 124th
• eRAPTOR = 120th
• MAMBA = 130th
• EPM = 87th

...which helps with the owner's mandate of wanting to compete now.

On top of his impact, he's a terrific fit for the current roster, Perry/Christie's vision, and the culture we want to build in SAC. He gives the Kings someone...

• Who can play PG and help run the offense
• Who is still effective off ball (important when LaVine and Sabonis are handling the rock)
• Who is an elite defender who can easily defend multiple positions (allowing us to hide LaVine better on that end)
• Who can provide some scoring (important if we move on from Monk and/or DeRozan)
• Who can space the floor (important when LaVine is attacking the paint or when Sabonis is operating in the paint)
• With championship experience who can help establish a tough, hard working, defensive culture
• Who can help mentor Ellis and Carter both offensively and defensively and can progressively hand over the reigns over the coming years

Now that we have established that...

• He is still an impactful player that aligns with Vivek's mandate of competing
• He is a terrific fit for the current roster which further helps Vivek's mandate of competing
• He can help establish the vision/culture that Perry/Christie have made pubilc
• He can mentor our future/young guards (Ellis and Carter)

...the only valid concerns are his age and his contract, but we seem to disagree on the size of those concerns.

His age can certainly affect his impact on the floor. It's natural to think he'll be less and less impactful as he ages, but considering how impactful he was just this past year, it would take a cliff like scenario for him to all of a sudden become someone that doesn't contribute to winning on the court. It's not impossible, but I don't think it's likely.


So that leaves us with the original point of contention I raised...the contract.

For the sake of this discussion, I need to make a few assumptions/decisions...

• This offseason, trade DeMar DeRozan, Malik Monk, & 2026 CHA 2nd for Jrue Holiday, PJ Washington, Dwight Powell, & #28 (DeMar DeRozan, Malik Monk, & 2026 CHA 2nd go to DAL and Klay Thompson & Naji Marshall go to BOS)
• This offseason, decline Keon Ellis' option and resign him to a contract in line with Herb Jones contract.
• Next offseason, resign Murray to a contract in line with Trey Murphy's contract
• Next offseason, resign PJ Washington to a contract around $20 mil/year

That leaves us with 12 players under contract (Holiday, Carter, LaVine, Ellis, Davis, Murray, Washington, Jones, Sabonis, Valanciunas, Powell, & #28) while still being $8.4 mil under the 1st apron and $20.4 mil under the 2nd apron.

The following season, we'd have 10 players under contract (Holiday, Carter, LaVine, Ellis, Murray, Washington, Sabonis, Valanciunas, #28, & 2026 SAC 1st) while still being $4.9 mil under the 1st apron and $17.9 mil under the 2nd apron.

The following season, we'd have 10 players under contract (Holiday, Carter, Ellis, Murray, Washington, Sabonis, #28, 2026 SAC 1st, 2027 SAC 1st, & 2027 SAS 1st) while still being $66.2 mil under the 1st apron and $80.5 mil under the 2nd apron.

And then the following season, Holiday is off the books (just in time for when Carter needs a new contract). As you can see, we wouldn't really be running into apron issues with this type of trade so there shouldn't really be a concern.


Now the other contention is that Holiday's contract will be an anchor when trying to make other moves to improve. Again, the math on the apron's don't seem to suggest that and I would still project his impact on the court to be positive over the next couple of years. On top of that, Jrue is very versatile so if we do end up trading for a big star PG, Holiday has shown that he can be effective on ball and play next to high usage star players.

The last thing that I like about his contract is that it staggers two big expiring contracts giving Perry some flexibility when trying to trade for a big star.

More specifically, LaVine will be an expiring next offseason. Perry can see what is out there with LaVine's ending salary as an attractive contract for a team that is looking to cut ties with their star and reset/rebuild. If he doesn't find that type of trade, well then you have Holiday's big contract to use as a matching expiring salary the following offseason to try and find that type of player.

I think most of us agree that we're not going to be signing a big star with cap space so leveraging staggered expiring contracts across the coming years and keeping our 1sts close to the vest allow us to to keep our options open and pounce when the time is right. In the meantime, you have Jrue providing all of the benefits I listed above at the beginning of my post.





And just to visualize the roster going into next year, it would look like the following....

PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - LaVine / Ellis / Davis
SF - Murray
PF - Washington / Jones
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Powell
Picks - #28 / #45

Jrue is still a good player but any stats like that have to be considered against the fact that he's also playing on one of the, if not the best team in the league during the regular season. As a role player at this point as well. Those things might all be true, but the question is where does it actually take the Kings? If Perry isn't looking at most in a one to two year window (Jrue's contract is likely 3) and potential rebuild then he's doing the job wrong already so it's a 50/50 bet that this could get ugly.

The issues aren't in being over aprons, the issues are pushing yourself farther back if a rebuild is due by this next deadline, which will likely be very clear if that's the case by this next deadline. The Kings simply didn't perform well enough last season to justify filling the holes with big money even if it ended up working. At this point, it's a total guess and this would be a 100 million dollar guess on a player getting into the last few years of his career potentially after just taking on LaVine's deal to boot. Yes, that's flat out gambling. It's the amount of money the Kings would have to move to kick off a rebuild because if they want to rebuild and you get stuck with a roster like years past, too good to get good picks and too bad to not compete and no way to really sit vets to develop that youth either then you are essentially stuck. I mean c'mon, those around here long enough have seen this EXACT thing before, time and time again. Hence the 3-5 year rebuild vs. a 5-8 year one. 8 years would likely be only if the Kings moved picks to get better now and having it not work, but this kind of stuff can catch up with a team regardless.

Personally I think looking at moving Monk is a very wise idea if he's not the PG. You really don't want to pay a backup SG that doesn't play defense that kind of money if you aren't winning either. This is where the rubber meets the road, in order to be better at defense you have to actually have defenders that play minutes. There is a reason Carter and Keon were the best two man lineup in the last few and tightest weeks, THEY PLAYED DEFENSE! haha.

That deal you propose would be a totally different thing than what we're hearing. If the Kings could land that package that fills other holes then heck yeah, do it, but it still gets super expensive to keep that roster together so how far does it get? That would be the reasoning to keep it together. Getting Washinton would be the value get there, not Jrue. The ending team is the potential for Jrue to work out better results wise. Right now the reality is this looks more like a run it back, maybe with DeMar getting favored off the team and filling the PG spot because Domas "needs" a PG. Again, him even saying that concerns the heck out of me for a variety of reasons. Jrue could work great, but the truth is the Kings simply don't have enough intel about their current incarnation to justify commitment like that. Even if it were free asset wise or came with a meh pick. Running it back for the most part is the least damaging thing Perry could do right now unfortunately or fortunately, whatever someones take is.

Also cap space isn't about signing names, look at the Thunder, it's about using it to leverage other assets from teams. Cap space is very important during a rebuild for a variety of reasons, building a team around talent only being a part of it. You rarely see expiring contracts getting back the same value cap space does in trade. Expirings are typically best used by the team with it to wait it out and time impending cap space properly.

 

[SacTownKid]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1927788712412229741

View attachment 13564

Jrue going to the Clippers makes total sense. They are in the window, they have no real other choices. We'll see if Jrue could net that kind of package. The C's win that trade easily. Dunn was playing great defense during the playoffs he'd be a perfect fit for the Celtics. The C's are supposedly looking to dump money so this noise has to be them setting up for a team with space to take him on and maybe swing him somewhere else. The problem is the somewhere else is probably going to help incentivize the team with space so that means more value going out.

 

[Tetsujin]

Jrue going to the Clippers makes total sense. They are in the window, they have no real other choices. We'll see if Jrue could net that kind of package. The C's win that trade easily. Dunn was playing great defense during the playoffs he'd be a perfect fit for the Celtics. The C's are supposedly looking to dump money so this noise has to be them setting up for a team with space to take him on and maybe swing him somewhere else. The problem is the somewhere else is probably going to help incentivize the team with space so that means more value going out.

The issue is that there are pretty much no teams with space out there and Celtics don’t have enough fluid draft assets to really make a salary dump palatable for most rebuilding teams. The only team with enough pure space to just take Jrue is Brooklyn but they’re holding on to that space in the hopes that they can make a move for Giannis or whatever other superstar comes available.

Detroit can make a deal fairly easily and Jrue honestly makes a lot of sense next to Cade but I’m also not sure if they’re all that intent on getting older rather than trying to let their younger guys grow into roles.

Memphis also has a bit of practical cap space to make something work but they just paid a big price to get off of Marcus Smart’s deal, which isn’t even as long as Jrue is, and Jrue isn’t really the best fit for the style they’re apparently trying to run now.

Chicago could do it I guess but it honestly feels like they’re finally pivoting to rebuild mode and there are probably better ways for them to turn cap space/cap assets into rebuild assets than Jrue Holiday.

 

[SacTownKid]

The issue is that there are pretty much no teams with space out there and Celtics don’t have enough fluid draft assets to really make a salary dump palatable for most rebuilding teams. The only team with enough pure space to just take Jrue is Brooklyn but they’re holding on to that space in the hopes that they can make a move for Giannis or whatever other superstar comes available.

Detroit can make a deal fairly easily and Jrue honestly makes a lot of sense next to Cade but I’m also not sure if they’re all that intent on getting older rather than trying to let their younger guys grow into roles.

Memphis also has a bit of practical cap space to make something work but they just paid a big price to get off of Marcus Smart’s deal, which isn’t even as long as Jrue is, and Jrue isn’t really the best fit for the style they’re apparently trying to run now.

Chicago could do it I guess but it honestly feels like they’re finally pivoting to rebuild mode and there are probably better ways for them to turn cap space/cap assets into rebuild assets than Jrue Holiday.

People are starting to say once the Giannis thing is settled is when other other stuff goes down. One would assume it's pretty quick on the Giannis thing. He doesn't seem like the type to drag the league down for himself like some other stars have. It would be surprising if the Celtics got out of Jrues deal entirely but they can probably wiggle it down. We'll see if the Nets get stumped again and get whatever assets they can. There's already more rumors of them still trying to cash in on Cam, lol.

 

[twslam07]

Jrue is still a good player but any stats like that have to be considered against the fact that he's also playing on one of the, if not the best team in the league during the regular season. As a role player at this point as well. Those things might all be true, but the question is where does it actually take the Kings? If Perry isn't looking at most in a one to two year window (Jrue's contract is likely 3) and potential rebuild then he's doing the job wrong already so it's a 50/50 bet that this could get ugly.

The issues aren't in being over aprons, the issues are pushing yourself farther back if a rebuild is due by this next deadline, which will likely be very clear if that's the case by this next deadline. The Kings simply didn't perform well enough last season to justify filling the holes with big money even if it ended up working. At this point, it's a total guess and this would be a 100 million dollar guess on a player getting into the last few years of his career potentially after just taking on LaVine's deal to boot. Yes, that's flat out gambling. It's the amount of money the Kings would have to move to kick off a rebuild because if they want to rebuild and you get stuck with a roster like years past, too good to get good picks and too bad to not compete and no way to really sit vets to develop that youth either then you are essentially stuck. I mean c'mon, those around here long enough have seen this EXACT thing before, time and time again. Hence the 3-5 year rebuild vs. a 5-8 year one. 8 years would likely be only if the Kings moved picks to get better now and having it not work, but this kind of stuff can catch up with a team regardless.

Personally I think looking at moving Monk is a very wise idea if he's not the PG. You really don't want to pay a backup SG that doesn't play defense that kind of money if you aren't winning either. This is where the rubber meets the road, in order to be better at defense you have to actually have defenders that play minutes. There is a reason Carter and Keon were the best two man lineup in the last few and tightest weeks, THEY PLAYED DEFENSE! haha.

That deal you propose would be a totally different thing than what we're hearing. If the Kings could land that package that fills other holes then heck yeah, do it, but it still gets super expensive to keep that roster together so how far does it get? That would be the reasoning to keep it together. Getting Washinton would be the value get there, not Jrue. The ending team is the potential for Jrue to work out better results wise. Right now the reality is this looks more like a run it back, maybe with DeMar getting favored off the team and filling the PG spot because Domas "needs" a PG. Again, him even saying that concerns the heck out of me for a variety of reasons. Jrue could work great, but the truth is the Kings simply don't have enough intel about their current incarnation to justify commitment like that. Even if it were free asset wise or came with a meh pick. Running it back for the most part is the least damaging thing Perry could do right now unfortunately or fortunately, whatever someones take is.

Also cap space isn't about signing names, look at the Thunder, it's about using it to leverage other assets from teams. Cap space is very important during a rebuild for a variety of reasons, building a team around talent only being a part of it. You rarely see expiring contracts getting back the same value cap space does in trade. Expirings are typically best used by the team with it to wait it out and time impending cap space properly.

Let’s be clear…the team should rebuild now. The issue is we have an owner that won’t. I doubt half of the 2025-26 season is going to change his mind.

But for fun, let’s say it does and Vivek decides that he’s okay with changing direction at the 2025-26 trade deadline and leans into a rebuild…what’s the big concern with having Holiday on the roster at that point?

Yes, Holiday is impactful (as the advanced impact stats show), but if we’re rebuilding, I’m assuming that means we’re looking to trade Sabonis first and foremost and then you have LaVine expiring the following offseason. Do you think a team who’s best player is Holiday is going to make this team “too good to get good picks” in that scenario? I certainly don’t.

From a cap perspective (assuming Sabonis is dealt for expirings and assets/picks), that’s a lot of soon to be freed up cap and then you have LaVine who expires the following offseason as well (giving us even more freed up cap). That means we should have plenty of cap space to utilize the way the Thunder did.

On top of that, Holiday, in fact, would be an excellent mentor for a young, rebuilding team and help establish the culture for the new generation.

Plus, there is always the possibility a team would be willing to take him for free or a small incentive as a year or two comes off of his contract. I mean just look at how many teams have been linked to him already (MIA, DAL, LAC). I don’t really see that interest going away so sharply especially if he has shaved another year off his contract.

So considering…

1.) A Holiday led team is not going to be “too good to get good picks” thus allowing us to draft high in the lottery
2.) We’d have plenty of cap space thus allowing us to make salary dump trades for assets (like the Thunder did)
3.) Holiday would be an excellent mentor and culture setter thus helping the new generation of young Kings develop
4.) It’s not impossible that a team would be interested in trading for Holiday in a year or two’s time

…that leads me to ask the following question…why would we need to trade Holiday to “kickoff a rebuild?”

 

[SacTownKid]

Let’s be clear…the team should rebuild now. The issue is we have an owner that won’t. I doubt half of the 2025-26 season is going to change his mind.

But for fun, let’s say it does and Vivek decides that he’s okay with changing direction at the 2025-26 trade deadline and leans into a rebuild…what’s the big concern with having Holiday on the roster at that point?

Yes, Holiday is impactful (as the advanced impact stats show), but if we’re rebuilding, I’m assuming that means we’re looking to trade Sabonis first and foremost and then you have LaVine expiring the following offseason. Do you think a team who’s best player is Holiday is going to make this team “too good to get good picks” in that scenario? I certainly don’t.

From a cap perspective (assuming Sabonis is dealt for expirings and assets/picks), that’s a lot of soon to be freed up cap and then you have LaVine who expires the following offseason as well (giving us even more freed up cap). That means we should have plenty of cap space to utilize the way the Thunder did.

On top of that, Holiday, in fact, would be an excellent mentor for a young, rebuilding team and help establish the culture for the new generation.

Plus, there is always the possibility a team would be willing to take him for free or a small incentive as a year or two comes off of his contract. I mean just look at how many teams have been linked to him already (MIA, DAL, LAC). I don’t really see that interest going away so sharply especially if he has shaved another year off his contract.

So considering…

1.) A Holiday led team is not going to be “too good to get good picks” thus allowing us to draft high in the lottery
2.) We’d have plenty of cap space thus allowing us to make salary dump trades for assets (like the Thunder did)
3.) Holiday would be an excellent mentor and culture setter thus helping the new generation of young Kings develop
4.) It’s not impossible that a team would be interested in trading for Holiday in a year or two’s time

…that leads me to ask the following question…why would we need to trade Holiday to “kickoff a rebuild?”

Jrue isn't making this team much better on his own, but I'm assuming the fact that the Kings "youth" are guys like Keegan, Keon, and Jones who are all close to their actual prime with only Carter being a few years away this team better not be bottom dwelling for too long regardless. Either way it's still pushing things back a year and to me, 2031 is vastly important for Sac to be on the road to somewhere. That DDR trade could potentially muck things up. If they waited until 2027 to really get going, you have to have at least 2-3 seasons to restock most likely. The other thing is now Keegan is on what kind of contract? Keon? The Kings should follow teams like the Thunder and even the Spurs. Getting as much cap space as possible as soon as possible should be the goal if a rebuild is clearly necessary by this next deadline. This next deadline and next summer in particular could be a premium time to make other teams maneuvers possible and picking up more assets to rebuild with in the interim considering the Kings are so light on young talent overall and this year don't even have a pick. Just waiting to clear the books by 2027 with potentially a middling pick in 2026 and then one decent one in 2027 shouldn't be the goal, it should be prioritizing possible space and a path out, and while Jrue's contract doesn't kill anything, he does closer to that than he helps things. Like I said, he could be the missing ingredient or this team might already be stacked and we don't know it, but that's a 100 million dollar gamble. Not smart at this point. This is the time to be smart, not throw more down the hole. The Kings did that at the last deadline already.

 

[twslam07]

Jrue isn't making this team much better on his own, but I'm assuming the fact that the Kings "youth" are guys like Keegan, Keon, and Jones who are all close to their actual prime with only Carter being a few years away this team better not be bottom dwelling for too long regardless.

So what if they’re somewhat close to their prime? If we’re rebuilding, the focus will be on selling off Sabonis and bottoming out in hopes of getting valuable enough 1sts that we can draft our new franchise players. If we whiff on our top picks in the coming years, we’ll likely have to trade off guys like Murray & Ellis simply due to timeline differences between them and the future potential stars that we draft.

Either way it's still pushing things back a year and to me, 2031 is vastly important for Sac to be on the road to somewhere. That DDR trade could potentially muck things up. If they waited until 2027 to really get going, you have to have at least 2-3 seasons to restock most likely. The other thing is now Keegan is on what kind of contract? Keon?

How does trading for Holiday and then deciding to rebuild at the deadline “push things back a year?” I’ve already outlined why that’s not the case.

Also, I know I entertained your hypothetical pivot to a rebuild, but we really need to keep in mind who our owner is. Do you really think Vivek is will green lit a rebuild after half of a season? And just to be clear, I’m not asking if he should green lit a rebuild. I’m asking if you think he actually would. I doubt it.

So working under those parameters, your concerns aren’t likely going to be considered (even if they are valid).

The Kings should follow teams like the Thunder and even the Spurs. Getting as much cap space as possible as soon as possible should be the goal if a rebuild is clearly necessary by this next deadline. This next deadline and next summer in particular could be a premium time to make other teams maneuvers possible and picking up more assets to rebuild with in the interim considering the Kings are so light on young talent overall and this year don't even have a pick.

Well the trade I proposed brings in an expiring Washington while both Monk and DeRozan would still be on the books the following offseason so that does help get more cap space sooner.

I don’t see a team taking on LaVine at the deadline for expirings unless we’re attaching value (but maybe I’m wrong) so we’re simply going to have to wait until the 2027 off-season for his contract to come off the books in a rebuild situation. You can say we should be “getting as much cap space as possible as soon as possible” and that’s all well and good in theory, but you need to recognize the reality that LaVine is on this roster and we can’t simply snap our fingers and make his contract vanish. So yes, his large contract is likely with us until the 2027 off-season.

Just waiting to clear the books by 2027 with potentially a middling pick in 2026 and then one decent one in 2027 shouldn't be the goal, it should be prioritizing possible space and a path out

Wait, why would the pick in 2026 be “middling?” In your hypothetical scenario, things went soooo poorly during the 1st half of the 2025-26 season that it was enough to convince our “win now” owner to green lit a rebuild. I would imagine our record at this point would be bad enough to not result in a “middling” pick. And then on top of that, we’d likely be looking to move Sabonis which would only make that pick less and less “middling.”

and while Jrue's contract doesn't kill anything, he does closer to that than he helps things. Like I said, he could be the missing ingredient or this team might already be stacked and we don't know it, but that's a 100 million dollar gamble. Not smart at this point. This is the time to be smart, not throw more down the hole. The Kings did that at the last deadline already.

So you would in fact concede that it’s not necesssry to trade Holiday to “kickoff a rebuild?”

And I definitely disagree that trading for Holiday is “not smart at this point” and that he’s a “100 million dollar gamble.” That insinuates that if we do shift to a rebuild by this trade deadline (which I think is less likely than not for the record) that we lost the “gamble.” That’s not true as I already laid out in my previous post (there would still be plenty of cap space to leverage, he would be an excellent mentor/culture setter for a young team, and could potentially be flipped since he would have shaved another year off his deal & considering multiple teams have interest in him today).

Look, it’d be one thing if we’re giving up 1sts for Holiday. That wouldn’t be wise IMO, but when you’re sending out DeRozan, Monk, and a 2026 CHA 2nd and getting back Holiday, Washington, and #28, I think that makes a lot of sense as it fits Vivek’s mandate to win now while also not sacrificing or handicapping our future.

 

[Warhawk]

So what if they’re somewhat close to their prime? If we’re rebuilding, the focus will be on selling off Sabonis and bottoming out in hopes of getting valuable enough 1sts that we can draft our new franchise players. If we whiff on our top picks in the coming years, we’ll likely have to trade off guys like Murray & Ellis simply due to timeline differences between them and the future potential stars that we draft.

This is not the way.

With current lottery odds, you can't tank for a top pick. At best you can expect about #4, and that's if you have the best odds in the drawing! Wishing for a top pick for an obvious franchise player is a sucker bet, and that's even assuming that there is such a player in the draft that you happen to win. I've repeated, ad nauseum, about the Kings luck with their top couple of picks they've had. Not going to repeat it again.

If we happen to get a top 1-2 pick, great! Pick well! But don't make that your plan. It won't work out. This last lottery is a perfect example why.

 

[SacTownKid]

So what if they’re somewhat close to their prime? If we’re rebuilding, the focus will be on selling off Sabonis and bottoming out in hopes of getting valuable enough 1sts that we can draft our new franchise players. If we whiff on our top picks in the coming years, we’ll likely have to trade off guys like Murray & Ellis simply due to timeline differences between them and the future potential stars that we draft.


How does trading for Holiday and then deciding to rebuild at the deadline “push things back a year?” I’ve already outlined why that’s not the case.

Also, I know I entertained your hypothetical pivot to a rebuild, but we really need to keep in mind who our owner is. Do you really think Vivek is will green lit a rebuild after half of a season? And just to be clear, I’m not asking if he should green lit a rebuild. I’m asking if you think he actually would. I doubt it.

So working under those parameters, your concerns aren’t likely going to be considered (even if they are valid).



Well the trade I proposed brings in an expiring Washington while both Monk and DeRozan would still be on the books the following offseason so that does help get more cap space sooner.

I don’t see a team taking on LaVine at the deadline for expirings unless we’re attaching value (but maybe I’m wrong) so we’re simply going to have to wait until the 2027 off-season for his contract to come off the books in a rebuild situation. You can say we should be “getting as much cap space as possible as soon as possible” and that’s all well and good in theory, but you need to recognize the reality that LaVine is on this roster and we can’t simply snap our fingers and make his contract vanish. So yes, his large contract is likely with us until the 2027 off-season.



Wait, why would the pick in 2026 be “middling?” In your hypothetical scenario, things went soooo poorly during the 1st half of the 2025-26 season that it was enough to convince our “win now” owner to green lit a rebuild. I would imagine our record at this point would be bad enough to not result in a “middling” pick. And then on top of that, we’d likely be looking to move Sabonis which would only make that pick less and less “middling.”



So you would in fact concede that it’s not necesssry to trade Holiday to “kickoff a rebuild?”

And I definitely disagree that trading for Holiday is “not smart at this point” and that he’s a “100 million dollar gamble.” That insinuates that if we do shift to a rebuild by this trade deadline (which I think is less likely than not for the record) that we lost the “gamble.” That’s not true as I already laid out in my previous post (there would still be plenty of cap space to leverage, he would be an excellent mentor/culture setter for a young team, and could potentially be flipped since he would have shaved another year off his deal & considering multiple teams have interest in him today).

Look, it’d be one thing if we’re giving up 1sts for Holiday. That wouldn’t be wise IMO, but when you’re sending out DeRozan, Monk, and a 2026 CHA 2nd and getting back Holiday, Washington, and #28, I think that makes a lot of sense as it fits Vivek’s mandate to win now while also not sacrificing or handicapping our future.

So what? The more experience they have and the closer they are to the peak of their abilities both in terms of skill and physicality the assumption would be they would be more capable in helping a team win games. That's always one of the benefits of selecting older, more developed players. The downside of course is if they are missing major aspects of certain skills then they also most likely won't develop those to any great extent. And it's pushing things back because odds are you are probably stuck with his contract.

Why does it push things back? Because you'll probably still have both LaVine and Holiday for 1.5-2.5 seasons longer. This is also about utilizing cap space to acquire other assets and that 37 million off the books could come in real handy both in trade and/or even affording the team a chance to perhaps take a risk on a younger FA. 37 million is nothing to sneeze at in an offseason where you might have multiple max slots available to play with.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind the Kings doing that particular trade. Taking on Jrue while also filling other needs would give this team a much greater competitive edge. That isn't the same as just taking on Holiday's deal and then hoping for the best.

Poorly? I don't expect this team to flatline, but right now the only thing they could expect is play in/late lottery level play. If that happens again as a top rung for success and they still don't decide to take steps back then this is completely doomed. I'll put my bet down on 8 years to get back up right then. As I've said before, if they are going to be in the mix next season I think they'll be able to do it without Holiday. If they prove to be in the mix, THEN you make this type of commitment, not before. There isn't enough information about what this team even is yet.

It's funny, this is almost the exact reverse of the conversations of last offseason and I feel the same way about this is as I did about Monte making his move for space then. If you looked at Monte's chess board at the time, it was going to be Monte's last shot as far as the timing went and in the end he did exactly what was needed to be done to go for it. It didn't work and the result is the Kings are better off being in more of a cautious mode at the moment. Now, Perry needs to do the opposite of what Monte did. It's wait and see time or at the very least take low risk, short term swings. Paying 100 million to another player in the twilight of their career is not it although yes, he fits pretty well and would help in the interim but isn't guaranteed to solve anything.

Concede? I never said it was necessary, it's a stumbling block to maximizing it and a delay in doing that however.

 

[SacTownKid]

This is not the way.

With current lottery odds, you can't tank for a top pick. At best you can expect about #4, and that's if you have the best odds in the drawing! Wishing for a top pick for an obvious franchise player is a sucker bet, and that's even assuming that there is such a player in the draft that you happen to win. I've repeated, ad nauseum, about the Kings luck with their top couple of picks they've had. Not going to repeat it again.

If we happen to get a top 1-2 pick, great! Pick well! But don't make that your plan. It won't work out. This last lottery is a perfect example why.

Pretty much, and look at the teams this lottery for how much the payoff is, haha. What isn't a suckers bet is that a top 4 pick is going to have vastly more value than a 13th pick in trade. Rebuilding is about value whether that's signings, draft picks, drafted players, or valuable contracts. Even if a team doesn't draft a franchise player, playing that player to their strengths and giving them an opportunity to produce is also a smart move. Building value in all areas and shining up your pieces never completely fails if done right.

 

[twslam07]

This is not the way.

With current lottery odds, you can't tank for a top pick. At best you can expect about #4, and that's if you have the best odds in the drawing! Wishing for a top pick for an obvious franchise player is a sucker bet, and that's even assuming that there is such a player in the draft that you happen to win. I've repeated, ad nauseum, about the Kings luck with their top couple of picks they've had. Not going to repeat it again.

If we happen to get a top 1-2 pick, great! Pick well! But don't make that your plan. It won't work out. This last lottery is a perfect example why.

Trading Sabonis for a rebuilding package is “not the way” in sactownkid’s hypothetical that we’d be rebuilding by this upcoming trade deadline?

 

[twslam07]

So what? The more experience they have and the closer they are to the peak of their abilities both in terms of skill and physicality the assumption would be they would be more capable in helping a team win games. That's always one of the benefits of selecting older, more developed players. The downside of course is if they are missing major aspects of certain skills then they also most likely won't develop those to any great extent. And it's pushing things back because odds are you are probably stuck with his contract.

Again, so what? If you don’t have your stars/heavy hitters at the top, guys like Murray, Ellis, etc. aren’t going to somehow carry us to picking 10-14th. And with the lottery odds being what they are, being “low enough” is probably all you can ask for vs. going the UTA route, tanking for the worst record, and wind up picking 5th. Nobody wants to see that anyway.

Why does it push things back? Because you'll probably still have both LaVine and Holiday for 1.5-2.5 seasons longer. This is also about utilizing cap space to acquire other assets and that 37 million off the books could come in real handy both in trade and/or even affording the team a chance to perhaps take a risk on a younger FA. 37 million is nothing to sneeze at in an offseason where you might have multiple max slots available to play with.

Using the trade I proposed, assuming we traded Sabonis for expirings, assuming Murray gets a deal similar to Trey Murphy, & assuming Ellis gets a deal similar to Herb Jones, we’d have ~$38 mil in cap space during the 2026 off-season. There is plenty of cap to work with and do what you suggest.

And again, considering how many teams are already interested in Holiday, is it not possible that some of those teams (or even some new ones at that point) would still be interested in him halfway into the season? If he’s such an anchor and so unmoveable, why the interest from multiple teams this offseason?

Like I said, I wouldn't mind the Kings doing that particular trade. Taking on Jrue while also filling other needs would give this team a much greater competitive edge. That isn't the same as just taking on Holiday's deal and then hoping for the best.

Well…yeah why would we just trade for Holiday and leave our glaring PF hole untouched? My original response to you included the trade that had Washington coming to SAC. I would consider that wider trade a “smart move.” It sounds like you agree so what’s the issue?

Poorly? I don't expect this team to flatline, but right now the only thing they could expect is play in/late lottery level play. If that happens again as a top rung for success and they still don't decide to take steps back then this is completely doomed. I'll put my bet down on 8 years to get back up right then. As I've said before, if they are going to be in the mix next season I think they'll be able to do it without Holiday. If they prove to be in the mix, THEN you make this type of commitment, not before. There isn't enough information about what this team even is yet.

I think you’re overlooking the Vivek element in this scenario and that’s probably where a lot of our friction is stemming from.

I have a hard time seeing Vivek commit to a rebuild when we’re in the play-in range knowing we decided to run it back/make marginal, small moves (as you seem to suggest) since the roster is so ill fitting. Now if you make a trade to make that roster much more complementary on paper (e.g., trading for Holiday & Washington) and we still don’t perform, Perry is likely in a much better position to convince Vivek to rebuild.

Again, I don’t disagree with the general direction. Ideally we’re starting that process now (not halfway into the season, not 1 offseason later, etc.) but I recognize that’s not realistic knowing Vivek’s mandate. It sucks but it is what it is. So why not take low risk swings that 1) upgrade our roster, 2) improve the fit of our roster, and 3) keep our 1sts intact? That seems like the best possible outcome under this Vivek mandate.

It's funny, this is almost the exact reverse of the conversations of last offseason and I feel the same way about this is as I did about Monte making his move for space then. If you looked at Monte's chess board at the time, it was going to be Monte's last shot as far as the timing went and in the end he did exactly what was needed to be done to go for it. It didn't work and the result is the Kings are better off being in more of a cautious mode at the moment. Now, Perry needs to do the opposite of what Monte did. It's wait and see time or at the very least take low risk, short term swings. Paying 100 million to another player in the twilight of their career is not it although yes, he fits pretty well and would help in the interim but isn't guaranteed to solve anything.

But that’s the thing…bringing in Holiday is a low risk, short term swing in my eyes. He’s not costing us value to acquire him. On top of that, there are multiple teams interested in him, and I don’t see that interest disappearing halfway into the season if somehow Vivek can be convinced to rebuild (which again I highly doubt but am simply entertaining for the sake of our discussion).

Concede? I never said it was necessary, it's a stumbling block to maximizing it and a delay in doing that however.

In your previous post, you said…

It's the amount of money the Kings would have to move to kick off a rebuild

…if that’s no longer your take, that’s fine. I won’t belabor the point too much, but it certainly reads as if Holiday’s contract/money needs to be moved to “kick off a rebuild.”

 

[Warhawk]

Pretty much, and look at the teams this lottery for how much the payoff is, haha. What isn't a suckers bet is that a top 4 pick is going to have vastly more value than a 13th pick in trade. Rebuilding is about value whether that's signings, draft picks, drafted players, or valuable contracts. Even if a team doesn't draft a franchise player, playing that player to their strengths and giving them an opportunity to produce is also a smart move. Building value in all areas and shining up your pieces never completely fails if done right.

I don't disagree that a high pick is a better asset, I'm saying that hoping and wishing upon a star by tanking is no guarantee to get an "obvious" / generational franchise player in the draft. I was very specific in my point of view.

Like I said - do the best you can with the picks you get. But we've had a #1 and #2 pick in Sacramento, and both flamed out spectacularly.

Not only do you have to get lucky with the draft, there also has to be that "special" player to pick that would be a generational talent at your picking position, you have to actually select the correct player, who you pick has to stay healthy and available to play, and you have to develop that player and build around them.

We've not had success doing that. Not saying we can't. But it's not as easy as just "tanking" and everything else magically works out.

 

[Warhawk]

Trading Sabonis for a rebuilding package is “not the way” in sactownkid’s hypothetical that we’d be rebuilding by this upcoming trade deadline?

Sorry, I'm not catching your point? I think this question is strangely worded and I'm missing something.

 

[twslam07]

Sorry, I'm not catching your point? I think this question is strangely worded and I'm missing something.

Imagine how I felt when I read your initial response to me

 

[Warhawk]

Imagine how I felt when I read your initial response to me

At least my comment has some logical sentence structure and coherent thoughts (even if you disagree, and that's cool).

I'm struggling to understand the point/comment/question in yours. It sounds like you have two different things you are addressing in one sentence/question, and they are somewhat mashed together. But I can't tell what your point is. Sorry.

 

[SacTownKid]

Again, so what? If you don’t have your stars/heavy hitters at the top, guys like Murray, Ellis, etc. aren’t going to somehow carry us to picking 10-14th. And with the lottery odds being what they are, being “low enough” is probably all you can ask for vs. going the UTA route, tanking for the worst record, and wind up picking 5th. Nobody wants to see that anyway.



Using the trade I proposed, assuming we traded Sabonis for expirings, assuming Murray gets a deal similar to Trey Murphy, & assuming Ellis gets a deal similar to Herb Jones, we’d have ~$38 mil in cap space during the 2026 off-season. There is plenty of cap to work with and do what you suggest.

And again, considering how many teams are already interested in Holiday, is it not possible that some of those teams (or even some new ones at that point) would still be interested in him halfway into the season? If he’s such an anchor and so unmoveable, why the interest from multiple teams this offseason?



Well…yeah why would we just trade for Holiday and leave our glaring PF hole untouched? My original response to you included the trade that had Washington coming to SAC. I would consider that wider trade a “smart move.” It sounds like you agree so what’s the issue?



I think you’re overlooking the Vivek element in this scenario and that’s probably where a lot of our friction is stemming from.

I have a hard time seeing Vivek commit to a rebuild when we’re in the play-in range knowing we decided to run it back/make marginal, small moves (as you seem to suggest) since the roster is so ill fitting. Now if you make a trade to make that roster much more complementary on paper (e.g., trading for Holiday & Washington) and we still don’t perform, Perry is likely in a much better position to convince Vivek to rebuild.

Again, I don’t disagree with the general direction. Ideally we’re starting that process now (not halfway into the season, not 1 offseason later, etc.) but I recognize that’s not realistic knowing Vivek’s mandate. It sucks but it is what it is. So why not take low risk swings that 1) upgrade our roster, 2) improve the fit of our roster, and 3) keep our 1sts intact? That seems like the best possible outcome under this Vivek mandate.



But that’s the thing…bringing in Holiday is a low risk, short term swing in my eyes. He’s not costing us value to acquire him. On top of that, there are multiple teams interested in him, and I don’t see that interest disappearing halfway into the season if somehow Vivek can be convinced to rebuild (which again I highly doubt but am simply entertaining for the sake of our discussion).



In your previous post, you said…



…if that’s no longer your take, that’s fine. I won’t belabor the point too much, but it certainly reads as if Holiday’s contract/money needs to be moved to “kick off a rebuild.”

Them along with LaVine and Holiday just might.

You're assuming they trade Domas for expirings though. Sorry, I maybe wasn't as clear, when I said amount of money I wasn't just talking about Holidays contract which is why I said, "while Jrue's contract doesn't kill anything" and I figured my other statements clarified it, it's the totality of players like Domas, LaVine, Monk, Holiday, etc. That's a super full cap anyway you look at it. Maybe they get out of those contracts quick, maybe they don't. Ideally when trading Domas? You want a piece to move forward with. Just dumping him for picks/space shouldn't be the first choice. It's about spreading the chips around. Having prospects, picks, and as much impending cap flexibility as possible without sacrificing the first two. Possibly swallowing 100 million dollars on top of those contracts is what it is no matter how it's spun. This is a new era where cap space clearly has TONS of value. Look at what the Kings had to do just to dump not so bad contracts in Sasha and Davion.

If Vivek is calling shots like eating 100+ on guys like LaVine and Holiday then this is already doomed so why even discuss it? haha. My take is simple, the Kings took the shot to make it back up at the right time last offseason. It didn't work, they made more changes, before making more they need to give this current incarnation more time if they don't rebuild. An educated guess is always the way to go and the Kings have repeatedly suffered the consequences when they assume things. Yes, it makes sense, but only if it worked. If it didn't it's further damage the franchise can't afford if it actually knows what it's doing. Hence why it's a gamble and yes, a guess.

Also, that trade you proposed, I would absolutely be down with something like that if possible. But if either half were to be done exclusively by itself it would be the Washington part of it.

 

[twslam07]

At least my comment has some logical sentence structure and coherent thoughts (even if you disagree, and that's cool).

I'm struggling to understand the point/comment/question in yours. It sounds like you have two different things you are addressing in one sentence/question, and they are somewhat mashed together. But I can't tell what your point is. Sorry.

Well...no, I think your point of contention in your reply to me was due to you misunderstanding what I was saying (hence the confusion on my side to receive such a reply).

 

[Warhawk]

Well...no, I think your point of contention in your reply to me was due to you misunderstanding what I was saying (hence the confusion on my side to receive such a reply).

Please, help me out. What does this sentence/question mean? I'm honestly trying to sort it out but am not having any luck. Can you break it out into a logical sentence structure with maybe a little explanation?

"Trading Sabonis for a rebuilding package is “not the way” in sactownkid’s hypothetical that we’d be rebuilding by this upcoming trade deadline?"

 

[twslam07]

Them along with LaVine and Holiday just might.

I guess you and I value Sabonis' impact on the floor much differently then. Which is fine, but likely the reason for the difference in opinion.

You're assuming they trade Domas for expirings though. Sorry, I maybe wasn't as clear, when I said amount of money I wasn't just talking about Holidays contract which is why I said, "while Jrue's contract doesn't kill anything" and I figured my other statements clarified it, it's the totality of players like Domas, LaVine, Monk, Holiday, etc. That's a super full cap anyway you look at it. Maybe they get out of those contracts quick, maybe they don't.

But again, Monk would not be on the roster and thus his contract shouldn't be included in this statement.

Yes, Sabonis and LaVine make a lot of money. If the Kings decide to pivot to a rebuild at the deadline next season in your hypothetical (which IMO is not likely to happen), you only have LaVine under contract for 1.5 years, and there should be takers/suitors that are interested in acquiring Sabonis. In the case of Holiday, there are multiple teams interested in trading for him this offseason. I have a hard time seeing his market go absolutely ice cold a half a season later.

Like I said in my original reply to you, it's not as a big of a concern as you make it out to be (IMO of course).

Ideally when trading Domas? You want a piece to move forward with. Just dumping him for picks/space shouldn't be the first choice. It's about spreading the chips around. Having prospects, picks, and as much impending cap flexibility as possible without sacrificing the first two. Possibly swallowing 100 million dollars on top of those contracts is what it is no matter how it's spun. This is a new era where cap space clearly has TONS of value. Look at what the Kings had to do just to dump not so bad contracts in Sasha and Davion.

I'm fine taking a prospect + picks package for Sabonis (vs. just a picks package), but that's really not the crux of our disagreement, but you know what is also important to have when you have young players that you're developing? Mentors. Holiday would be excellent in that role and engrain how important it is to take both ends of the floor seriously.

I've already gone through the math in my previous post so I will just reiterate that we could have ~$38 mil in cap space the following offseason if we trade Sabonis for expirings, prospects, and/or picks. That's a ton of space to do what you want to do.

Also, it's not "swallowing $100 mil" necessarily. If the Kings do in fact decide to rebuild halfway into next season, I doubt Holiday will even be here by the end of his contract. Like I mentioned before, he has multiple suitors interested in trading for him this offseason. I don't see that interest all of a sudden disappearing halfway into the season.

If Vivek is calling shots like eating 100+ on guys like LaVine and Holiday then this is already doomed so what even discuss it? haha. My take is simple, the Kings took the shot to make it back up at the right time last offseason. It didn't work, they made more changes, before making more they need to give this current incarnation more time if they don't rebuild. An educated guess is always the way to go and the Kings have repeatedly suffered the consequences when they assume things. Yes, it makes sense, but only if it worked. If it didn't it's further damage the franchise can't afford if it actually knows what it's doing. Hence why it's a gamble and yes, a guess.

I mean I just laid out how the roster and cap are flexible enough to pivot from a Sabonis, LaVine, & Holiday core…in both directions (upgrading or rebuilding). I’m not reading any points from you that disagree with that flexibility being maintained after making this trade other than “swallowing 100 mil” but when we actually get down into the details, it’s clear to me where the flexibility is at.

 

[twslam07]

Please, help me out. What does this sentence/question mean? I'm honestly trying to sort it out but am not having any luck. Can you break it out into a logical sentence structure with maybe a little explanation?

"Trading Sabonis for a rebuilding package is “not the way” in sactownkid’s hypothetical that we’d be rebuilding by this upcoming trade deadline?"

Oh sorry. I think I misinterpreted your reply. And yes that’s worded rather poorly. Apologies again.

Sactownkid tossed out a hypothetical of the Kings deciding to pivot and begin a rebuild at next season’s trade deadline. I think this is pretty unrealistic considering Vivek’s mandate to win now, and I would think the only thing that could really trigger it would be Sabonis asking out. However, at that point, I wouldn’t be surprised if Vivek still mandated a win now goal causing us to trade Sabonis for Julius Randle or something else stupid, but I digress…

In that hypothetical, I said that I would trade Sabonis for a rebuilding package (expirings, prospects, & picks) which would obviously lead to us being much worse on the floor and thus improve the odds that’s we would be drafting in higher draft slots.

You responded saying “this is not the way” which was confusing to me since the rest of your post seemed to align with how I view rebuilding (for the most part).