TheRoyalist
G-League
Not based on that Fox contract, ha.
Fire Walton
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Not based on that Fox contract, ha.
whozit
Starter
None of those other deals were max contracts however. If it was less than max, why should Fox sign?
TheRoyalist
G-League
If folks want to prop up leftover front office folks for their great financial and negotiating acumen, when the Fox max is on the books, that's their choice.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Fox will be the 37th highest payed player in the league next year. Who are the 36 players in the Nba that you project to be better than him in 21/22?
chief bromden
Starter
Wait, is this a fire Walton thread or is it turning into a fire Monte thread?
The Kings have been doing this lose streak, win streak, lose streak, so on and so on since Walton started here. I think it's fitting we have a fire Walton thread and give Walton props thread, should be the only two needed until he is fired.
The team is excelling in either mode, so props to Walton for not being mediocre at sucking. But, since they are excellent at sucking right now, might as well fire his ass!
(Hope to see you all in the other thread soon)
The Kings have been doing this lose streak, win streak, lose streak, so on and so on since Walton started here. I think it's fitting we have a fire Walton thread and give Walton props thread, should be the only two needed until he is fired.
The team is excelling in either mode, so props to Walton for not being mediocre at sucking. But, since they are excellent at sucking right now, might as well fire his ass!
(Hope to see you all in the other thread soon)
I don't understand this angle. I'm not going to mute you or call you names. I just don't get it. He's the best player we've had in forever. He gets a max. That's how the NBA works.
whozit
Starter
If he doesn't live up to the contract, gloat then. Until then, I am glad we have a player that is continuing to improve and has the makings of living up to it. And wants to be here. The contract given was expected and didn't raise eyebrows, so I am not sure your point. Maybe you know something the rest of the league doesn't or you don’t. Time will tell.
TheRoyalist
G-League
Fire Walton.
TheRoyalist
G-League
There are more than 36 better than him this year, and then some of the injured guys and current younger players will surpass him, too. Again, like him and he's a super fun player. But his game is severely limited and looks much less impressive outside the heavy usage stat pad garbage run games he's had such a steady diet of as a King so far. Paying for that work like this, earlier than necessary, says it all. Incidentally, Fox's ascension would be a potential reason to keep Walton- wouldn't it? Ha.
whozit
Starter
Who says no? But I ain't holding breath on happening
whozit
Starter
I would say Fox's ascension would be despite of Walton not because of him.
TheRoyalist
G-League
Yeah, and therein lies all the reason not to wait and see on anyone connected to Vivek, new or old (folks bragging about those who managed to stay on right alongside the much-vaunted PR "win" of an outside firm hiring a numbers nerd who was jumping the Feritta ship in this very thread... questionable objectivity there).
TheRoyalist
G-League
I wouldn't credit Walton with anything, but one can say anything they want of course- Fox did this while Walton played him so much!
What Fox "did," however, is score and gather some assists totals in more or less meaningless games/seasons.
Fox is not a problem the way Walton is, as I've said in other threads. And Fox is not a problem the way Hield is (kudos to That One Guy who is still there making smart financial decisions for us like he did before McNair did! I'll get their trading cards!).
Back to the Fire Walton topic ha. Fire Walton. Tonight, after the loss, if Vivek has any guts whatsoever.
whozit
Starter
You seemed determined to put down whatever the team does. Would you have been happier with him doing what he had done in the past? Pulling a name from his Rolodex? That is what you accused him of earlier. You can't have it both ways
TheRoyalist
G-League
Not at all the case, as I've stated clearly regarding Haliburton elsewhere in the forum. And you've agreed that the top is the problem- all things Vivek deserve criticism until the wins come and the clear personnel improvement actually takes shape.
But seeing so much hype about that particular approach when the hire was an unproven numbers nerd guy off of the fashionable Sloan Conference/Morey tree on the other end of the spectrum from the "basketball guys" approach smells even fishier than just throwing money at the most famous former player interested in running a basketball team these days. Dumars is still here though, so who knows. If anything, the McNair move is easily folded in with Vivek's general trend of keeping lots of ambiguity about who makes decisions floating around, lots of folks to be fired or hung out to dry when things go South as they always do. "Give him some time" is a nice idea for a recovery project internally, with Vivek and who knows who else believing they are doing meaningful work to change. But it's the same folks still.
So: show me those wins! They are technically improved at the moment (.444 to last year's .431). But under .500 is just under .500 for this team, where it counts.
Catanella was "the numbers guy". Never talent side. He has negotiated a ton of declining deals that become team friendly on the backend and are easier to move plus should help us avoid any kind of tax unless we finally realize that super team where we are trying to max 3 players. I don't really see any issue at all here except you don't like Fox's deal which seems completely blind to the salary structure of the NBA. These contracts are basically pre-determined with the top players. You either decide to keep them at that price or let them go. There is no way at least 5 other teams aren't maxing Fox if we let him go restricted and then we'd lose the ability to keep him for an extra year and create bad blood in the process.
TheRoyalist
G-League
Someone tried to credit Vlade with something and you immediately had the name of the guy who should get the credit, and funny enough, they're still here! How 'bout that lol. Anyhoo, whenever those "easy to move" deals get moved, let me know.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I think the term "max" throws people off too. I think some believe that is reserved for the 10 best players in the game when it's basically the going rate for a top 30-40 player.
TheRoyalist
G-League
Maybe the Duke math nerd from League Office (and the Pistons in the Dumars era- lol!) is why we can't ship Bagley already.
Should be easy to ship Walton the Wildcat though, right?
Should be easy to ship Walton the Wildcat though, right?
TheRoyalist
G-League
So I get this, truly I do, but also it's a practice in the league that indicates how braindead management is and how silly the financial approaches are.
Meanwhile, the Spurs targeted Dejounte Murray, developed him, and locked him in at a far better deal.
It's not entirely fair to hold the Kangz up to the Spurs on management work and talent scouting and development, but that's the sort of smart I'm comparing it to. Hield is immovable now and Fox soon will be, as well, at any sort of return this dweeb Vivek will accept.
Yes - players are eligible for a maximum raise in their second contract. The best player on any team is going to get that. The second and third best players on good teams also get it.
The Lakers seem to be able to hand it out like candy. The Warriors are learning why that is problematic when you aren't the Lakers.
whozit
Starter
Now I can get on board with the concerns about Vivek. But again, you can't fire the controlling interest. But despite these concerns, everything he does doesn't automatically deserve negativity. If he stays in his lane and let those hired to manage the team do so, that would be a plus.
You appear to think using an outside agency in the hiring process was just for show. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Who would you have hired who would have come to the mess known as the Kings? If McNair does nothing by the trade deadline, I will have reason for concerns. That doesn't mean the concerns are justified just that I will have them. It’s possible anything offered/counter offered isn't worth taking.
So show me the wins? Depends on the objective was this season. There are arguments both ways.
Players far worse than Hield were getting equal or more this last offseason. Were you alive when Rickey Henderson got 3 million per to play baseball and we all collectively lost our minds? Because today 18-20 million for a shooting specialist is the going rate.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
We just disagree on Fox's value. IMO if Fox can hit 37 percent from 3 and 77 percent from the line in his prime he is a 25 and 7 player. Only time will tell.
TheRoyalist
G-League
I already stated the trade deadline waiting game, too- absolutely fine on that as the timeline and it's clear "negativity" is a quick target here. I get it. It seemed like maybe something different was on the way (again) this year. Poor Mark Jones has to beat the Fox is an All Star drum every night on the broadcast as part of that side of the hype game, while fans who collect management trading cards have other angles they try to enjoy things even in down times (all times).
When the trade deadline passes and nothing's changed, I know everyone will be ready to talk real turkey then.
But all the moving goal posts lol. You have a "max player" you believe in, you should be able to get some wins.
You're developing a system for future success and fine with some collateral damage in the win column this year? We should see some sort of actual work happening to that end. The margin of losses is way worse this year. Just a defensive sieve. And nothing remarkable is being worked on on court, strategy wise, thus far. Again, I think this has to do with the severely limited brain power of the roster. Haliburton is way above average, and Barnes is very smart. Beyond that, it's pretty shaky in the IQ department.
No amount of careful quietism and rationalizing cures all this. Too many stories being spun now.
Win or go home. It's a winners' league, as the winners say.
When the trade deadline passes and nothing's changed, I know everyone will be ready to talk real turkey then.
But all the moving goal posts lol. You have a "max player" you believe in, you should be able to get some wins.
You're developing a system for future success and fine with some collateral damage in the win column this year? We should see some sort of actual work happening to that end. The margin of losses is way worse this year. Just a defensive sieve. And nothing remarkable is being worked on on court, strategy wise, thus far. Again, I think this has to do with the severely limited brain power of the roster. Haliburton is way above average, and Barnes is very smart. Beyond that, it's pretty shaky in the IQ department.
No amount of careful quietism and rationalizing cures all this. Too many stories being spun now.
Win or go home. It's a winners' league, as the winners say.
TheRoyalist
G-League
Oh my.
Saw Ricky play in person many many times.
I think I'll leave you to the sand flinging.
I said my piece. After tonight's loss, if Walton isn't out, that's enough of a sign that all the New Management hyping and trading card polishing is part of the same old Vivek, for good. Whoever talked him into/set up the optics of "not taking revenue sharing" or whatever that story is, is obviously from the BOG control center. This team is a shadow regime lol.
TheRoyalist
G-League
None of those numbers are wins.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
If the Kings make the playoffs next year, will Fox get any credit?
sand flinging? I was giving you benefit of the doubt that you are older like me and may not understand why today's salaries are as high as they are. But they just are that high. I don't get it either. Buddy's deal is absolutely normal. Some might even say slightly below market. It's not my fault the NBA is silly money.
whozit
Starter
Talk about moving goal posts. Those numbers are in relation to Fox and his max contract.
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