sactowndog
All-Star
Again why? The problem with this team isn’t the coach. How many coaches has this team gone through. Even if Walton is contributing we are better off hoping for a top 5 pick with this class.
Fire Walton
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Again why? The problem with this team isn’t the coach. How many coaches has this team gone through. Even if Walton is contributing we are better off hoping for a top 5 pick with this class.
sactowndog
All-Star
Right now we sit at 8 and if you look at tankathon we alternate between Ziaire Williams at 8/9 and Jonathan Kuminga. Ideally we drop to the 5/6 spot.
I don't think anything would be more KANGZ than Bagley showing his true potential and Walton ruining his health running him into the ground when he was supposed to be on a minutes limit
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Ok then, what was the difference between the team we saw during that 7-1 stretch vs. before and now? Having the wrong coach for the team you have, or a team that isn't being utilized effectively can be a very perpetual issue when you have a flawed system from the top down. Should a GM typically be handed a coach? Or should he pick a coach to suit his vision?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Scottie Barnes is at 8 on NBAdraft.net. If that were the outcome, I'd be a happy camper.
sactowndog
All-Star
Yeah not a Barnes fan but in this draft would get a decent starter at 8. Would rather have Wagner or Williams.
sactowndog
All-Star
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Barnes is the size of a PF and can run pick and roll. Plus he's got a chippy side. The upside is unlimited for a player like that. He does some very Giannis like things with the ball. I'll take that and let the 180 pound wings fall by the wayside.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Fox’s level of play?
Yes, but what is the difference between then and now with Fox's play?
sactowndog
All-Star
And Barnes can’t shoot a lick. Are you going to take the ball out of Fox’s and Hali’s hands? Neither Kuminga nor Wagner are 180. This team desperately needs a 3 and D wing. The last thing we need is another athletic marvel that can’t shoot.
We need to put the rest the whole "taking the ball out of X player's hands". There is never a good reason to not add more passing and playmaking if the fit is correct. We didn't complain that JWill, DC, Webber, Bibby, Vlade, BJax and Hedo were all taking the ball out of each others hands.
The shooting from Barnes is a real concern but you never pass up on playmaking if it's there and it works.
Do you really think we're a 3&D player away from a run at the playoffs? I think we're a "player that's better or at the very least, equal to Fox" away from the playoffs.
sactowndog
All-Star
primarily defense but less attacking also....
Fox’s stats before and after....
27.7 points. 118 offensive rating. 111.9 defensive
21.4 points. 106 offensive rating. 125.3 defensive
to be fair Barnes has equally fallen off
19.7 points 118.4 offensive rating. 107.9 defensive
8.3 points. 108.5 offensive rating. 131.7 defensive
sactowndog
All-Star
I think we have enough poor outside shooters. Opposing players pack the paint. Pick and rolls are effective if you have shooters spacing the floor. My point isn’t taking the ball out of Fox’s hands as much has you don’t have spacing.
We have players that can run a pick and roll. I’m not opposed to more skilled decision makers off the dribble but I prioritize shooting over it. If they can do both great. If not I want an intelligent floor spacer who can defend.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I'm not asking for the results, we can see the results in real time. All of these things fall right in line with stylistic changes that occurred did they not? I doubt anyone is saying this team was a 7-1 clip team, no team is, but they were used much more effectively prior, so who made the call to change things up strategically?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
He shows potential as someone whose shot will improve, and as we all know shooting can improve. The physical tools and talent are there. And with Barnes you don't have to take the ball out of anyones hands. Right now he's playing as a combo guard type. In the NBA him transitioning in a playmaking F is likely. An Odom type perhaps. Going further, people have been waiting for that next "Scottie", well this might be it. That's very, very valuable if he lives up to expectations. Also Barnes shows the attitude and has the length to become a very interesting and perhaps unique defender.
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The issue is this archetype is so incredibly rare in the NBA outside of stars and any role players who fit this mold never make it to the Free Agent market. I'd much rather gamble on the Barnes archetype, which is so incredibly valuable in the NBA (versatile defender/wing creation) and try to develop the shot. Playmaking isn't a 0-sum game. You can never have too much of it.
sactowndog
All-Star
someone who shoots poorly from the 3 point line and has a low number of attempts does not typically project as a good 3 point shooter. If we are at 8/9 the better players may be done and Barnes may well be who we have to take but he falls below Williams and Wagner on my list.
Wagner is climbing draft boards and is a player we should watch.
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=scottie-barnes--franz-wagner--ziaire-williams
steelevt
All-Star
i feel the difference is a couple things. 1. the injury bug is hitting us now. Missing barnes and holmes is probably what keeps us from beating the bad teams and keeping us close against the good teams. 2. Waltons decision to change things up. normally when you have a SF and C out, you would replace them with a SF and C and keep you style and plays the same. Walton for some reason decided to replace our C with a PF, and our PF and SF with shooting guards. now almost everyone is playing out of position and undersized playing the other teams. I believe this hurts us defensively. 3. We were lucky to play a few teams who had players hurt during our run.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Right. The reason 3-and-D guys are so valuable is because good ones are so rare.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
But a decent stroke does, and Barnes doesn't have a broken jumper. Again, the benefit for him is that he's a true combo. If he were likely stuck at SF then that might be an issue but he won't be. Drafting Barnes to me is something you look at as potential more than anything he's doing or even showing now. Of course he has already shown brief moments of star qualities. Williams and Wagner are both interesting prospects too, I would take Barnes if it were a choice at the moment for the intangibles.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Guys being out wasn't the issue in the first games of trash ball returning. The style was.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I really like Wagner and have been calling for the Kings to draft him if we end up 10 or later. I do have some concerns about his lack of aggressiveness on offense however. I’ve watched his last couple games and he didn’t leap out as much as one would like. He is a really solid on the ball defender which is something this team really needs
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The big concern is his first step. If you are a bit slow on the get you better have the body to get the job done. He looks like a good role player on the wing though.
steelevt
All-Star
you mean the game against the best team in the east? i think us not losing by double digits would be considered a good game for us and i doubt anyone circled that game as automatic win. the wheels started to fall off starting the orlando game
sactowndog
All-Star
If your stroke isn’t broken and you still can’t shoot that would indicate you don’t have the eye hand coordination to shoot well from distance. Your argument to me doubles down on why to not draft Barnes. If it were broken you would at least have something to fix and a reason for his poor shooting.
sactowndog
All-Star
Plus defender and a good shooter.
sactowndog
All-Star
he won’t be around at 10 or later. Guarenteed
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
What? You're reaching on that one. Him not being an all world shooter shouldn't be a death sentence for him regardless. Not by any stretch.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yep, good role player.
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