Fire Reggie Theus (revisited)!

[beb0p]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Yeah, Moore did outplay Thompson for one game. What I gave you were the stats for the year so far, which is what I go on. Playing Thompson at SF might be creative and get him some additional minutes, but it may also hurt his confidence and growth.

Look around the league and you tell me how many teams Moore would be starting for. He's a backup center, Power Forward. And he's not even one of the better one's. I don't care about his feelings. I care about the Kings.

I think the issue is I just don't see all this problems that you're seeing. To me, it is absolutely untrue that Theus is not playing the kids - JT and Hawes are averaging 25 mins a game. Noah and Bayless would kill for those minutes. And there is no sign whatsoever that playing SF has hurt JT's confidence and growth, in fact, some of his best games so far came at SF (that's not to say I don't prefer him at PF). Maybe you like to see them average 40 mins per night, but I don't. They are not ready and they haven't earned those type of minutes.

Speaking of Moore, I agree that he is one of the worst starting PF in the league. So that should be all the easier for JT/Hawes to beat him out isn't it? When Yao Ming and Kobe Bryant first entered the league, no one gave them free rides. No one gave them starting spots: they had to take them away from somebody. This is what I want to see from our youngsters: kick Moore/Miller's butts at every practice and every game. It took Yao and Amare roughly one month to win the starting jobs. I look at JT and I look at Mikki and I say to myself, if JT doesn' win the job by the all-star break then this is not going well.

But I agree: we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Bricklayer]

When Yao Ming arrived in the league he was handed the starting job within 10 games, as he should have been.

Kobe was a) 18, b) was playing for a playoff team moving toward contention; and c) was held back artificially by Phil Jackson, who made some famouos remark at the time that he did not want to start Kobe because he would never get him out of the starting lineup. By the time he was 20 he was a starter, and never looked back.


You do NOT "bring along kids slowly" in the NBA. that argument has always shown eihter an ignorance of the NBA game, or a confusion of pro basketball with other sports (you do, for instance, bring along NFL quarterbacks slowly, although if you don't they mya still turn out just fine (see Elway, John, Montana, Joe or whoever you want). The only ewxcuse for "bringing along a kid slowly" is being part of playoff team with larger aspirations that take precedence. Otherwise there is NO goal whatsoever on a bad team that trumps developing your youth. It is the whole goal of your down years. The whole key to getting past your down years.

I was willing to give Reggie a semi-pass a few weeks back while he actually was playing the kids. But then his vets started getting healthy, and he has quit doing it. Raising the real possibility that the only reason they got to play at all was because Reggie had no options. So, no more pass. He is a dead man walking at this point and I won't shed a single tear at his passing. The only thing he can do to help us, the ONLY thing at this point, is play our kids. Accelerate their growth. And if he won't, chances are we're going to throw our WNBA coach out there and have him do it instead. Which is sad, but in some ways an appropriate end for a coach who refuses to get with the program.

 

[Jerryaki]

kick Moore/Miller's butts at every practice and every game.

how do we know that this isn't the case, in practices? and haven't they been playing at least as productively as miller and morre in games???

 

[Bricklayer]

how do we know that this isn't the case, in practices? and haven't they been playing at least as productively as miller and morre in games???

More than Moore to be sure.

But it would not matter even if it was a little less. If its even remotely close, the choice is clear. Play the kids.

 

[nbrans]

Starting against the Jazz:

Udrih, Bobby Jackson, Garcia, Hawes, Miller.

With Kevin Martin off the bench.

Uh......

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/017469.html

 

[Section 101]

how do we know that this isn't the case, in practices? and haven't they been playing at least as productively as miller and morre in games???

Because they haven't had a practice since the season started. All they get are shoot arounds since they've only had 1 day between games. Today was their first practice.

 

[Kingzrool]

Where is the "save the firing for the premiere of the TV show" choice?

 

[hoopsfan]

When Yao Ming arrived in the league he was handed the starting job within 10 games, as he should have been.

Kobe was a) 18, b) was playing for a playoff team moving toward contention; and c) was held back artificially by Phil Jackson, who made some famouos remark at the time that he did not want to start Kobe because he would never get him out of the starting lineup. By the time he was 20 he was a starter, and never looked back.

The coach from 1994-1999 was Dull.....I mean Del Harris. It was he who didn't start KB until Fox was injured and he didn't have a choice.


Now...If I were a Kings fan, I would vote to get rid of Reggie. A lot of you have very compelling arguements for your point ofview. Intresting.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Starting against the Jazz:

Udrih, Bobby Jackson, Garcia, Hawes, Miller.

With Kevin Martin off the bench.

Uh......

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/017469.html

Either he's desperate, or he's looking to start a lineup that keeps the game close then he brings in some firepower off the bench to take leads. That is a strange lineup but it might work. My only concern is a bench front court of Thompson/Moore. I guess we just gotta wait and see how this little experiment works out.

 

[Kings Faithful]

The coach from 1994-1999 was Dull.....I mean Del Harris. It was he who didn't start KB until Fox was injured and he didn't have a choice.


Now...If I were a Kings fan, I would vote to get rid of Reggie. A lot of you have very compelling arguements for your point ofview. Intresting.

If you don't mind me asking, whats a hardcore Laker fan doing on a kings website with an impressive 3,000 posts at that! Not that your not welcome, because if anything im more unwelcome than you. Just wondering.

 

[LPKingsFan]

LPKingsFan - There are rumblings and problems, but nothing you can put your finger on has hit the media...

The main problem isn't that the team has tuned him out IMHO. The main problem, which was touched on in the game discussion thread from last night, among others, is that he admits he always wants to win and that inevitably leads to him playing the veterans more - especially Miller and Moore - to achieve that objective.

There's no simple answer. If there were there wouldn't be so many disparate views about what should/shouldn't be done.

I really have no problem with Reggie trying to win. We want him to be competitive, to try to win with the players he has. I think it's about time Geoff forced Reggie's hand and traded the vets away, starting with Brad. But I agree, there's no simple answer.

Reggie needs to know that it's OK to lose if he plays the kids... but is it? The Maloofs, at the very least, have been sending mixed messages. I think Reggie's coaching the past few games has been pretty bad, but management certainly isn't helping. I'd make a trade before a coaching change.

 

[hoopsfan]

If you don't mind me asking, whats a hardcore Laker fan doing on a kings website with an impressive 3,000 posts at that! Not that your not welcome, because if anything im more unwelcome than you. Just wondering.

I actually joined KF in 2001, in the midst of our teams' playoffs. (The dreaded KF crash in Sept. 2004 reset most peoples start date.)

I have lived in Sacto since '96, (but a Laker fan since the 60's), and was looking for a local fan site to get another perspective on the series...and stumbled on KF and a couple others who are not so "other" fan friendly. I actually consider many of the regular KF posters as good friends of mine.
Besides my co-workers, it's another way to get the feel of local Kings fans for this diehard NBA and Laker fan. THere's a couple of us that hang around here...Gargy, where you at??

As VF knows, I have had the pleasure of being hung up on by Grant and Koz back in the day!

 

[Entity]

Starting against the Jazz:

Udrih, Bobby Jackson, Garcia, Hawes, Miller.

With Kevin Martin off the bench.

Uh......

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/017469.html

Please Please oh dear nbrans tell me you are ****ing kidding.

 

[beb0p]

When Yao Ming arrived in the league he was handed the starting job within 10 games, as he should have been.

Kobe was a) 18, b) was playing for a playoff team moving toward contention; and c) was held back artificially by Phil Jackson, who made some famouos remark at the time that he did not want to start Kobe because he would never get him out of the starting lineup. By the time he was 20 he was a starter, and never looked back.


You do NOT "bring along kids slowly" in the NBA. that argument has always shown eihter an ignorance of the NBA game, or a confusion of pro basketball with other sports (you do, for instance, bring along NFL quarterbacks slowly, although if you don't they mya still turn out just fine (see Elway, John, Montana, Joe or whoever you want).

Brick, I'm afraid you're wrong again... on all three counts. Kobe's first coach was not Phil Jackson and Kobe was not held back by the coaching staff, more like he was held back by himself - with bad shots, out of controlness, and dumb TOs. Of course, he eventually figured it out in a big way didn't he?

You're half right about Yao, he was handed the job... but only after he shot over 80% FG in a six-game stretch and topped it with a 30-16 against Dallas. After a run like that, the coach had no choice but to insert Yao. This is what I mean by Yao taking the job instead of waiting for someone to hand it to him.

And I never said to bring the kids along slowly. In fact, I've already said I wanted nothing short of JT/Hawes outplaying Miller/Moore and take away their jobs. The key here is "outplaying" not "handing" over minutes like many of you suggested.

In fact, I think it's only a matter of time before JT and Hawes are our starting frontcourt. As long as it happens by next season I think we're well on schedule. I reckon many of you don't have that kind of patience, to each his own.

 

[beb0p]

how do we know that this isn't the case, in practices? and haven't they been playing at least as productively as miller and morre in games???

I don't know about practices but "playing at least as productive" as those clowns, er I mean Moore/Miller is not at all encouraging. I find it intriguing that many King fans think asking Hawes/JT to completely outplay Mikki Moore is apparently too much to ask for. That the pressure of beating out a vet would somehow ruin their little fragile minds. I happen to think the youngsters not only can handle the pressure, they will strive in it.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Well, I think it's fairly obvious that Hawes at least has outplayed Moore, if not Miller, for the most part. Jason's play has been marred by foul trouble of late, some of which I'd imagine stems from playing out of position and struggling to keep up with smaller 3s on the perimiter.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't know about practices but "playing at least as productive" as those clowns, er I mean Moore/Miller is not at all encouraging. I find it intriguing that many King fans think asking Hawes/JT to completely outplay Mikki Moore is apparently too much to ask for. That the pressure of beating out a vet would somehow ruin their little fragile minds. I happen to think the youngsters not only can handle the pressure, they will strive in it.

The thing that every Kings fan but you realizes is that they have ALREADY completely outplayed Mikki Moore.

I know you have done your best to ignore these, but they aren't going away until you confront and explain:

Mikki Moore Starter 08/09:
14gms 22.8min 5.9pts 4.4reb 0.9ast 0.6stl 0.4blk

Spencer Hawes Starter 08/09:
7gms 32.4min 12.7pts 7.6reb 1.9ast 1.6stl 1.7blk

Jason Thompson Starter 08/09:
10gms 29.3min 10.8pts 7.2reb 0.7ast 1.1stl 0.5blk

Oh, and as an aside -- Yao Ming's stats in the 10 games before he became a starter:

10gms 17.3min 8.9pts 5.2reb 0.5ast 0.1stl 0.7blk

So...your definition of completely outplaying would be...? Averaging 20 and 10 perhaps? More? Does Al Horford (10.8pts 8.3reb 2.7ast 0.7stl 1.7blk) have to worry that he's not outperforming Zaza Pachulia (4.5pts 6.5rebs 0.9ast 0.2stl 0.3blk)? Does no young player start in the league unuless they are performing at an All Star level?

Its not even close enough to conceal the obvious fact its just an excuse. Mikki Moore serves absolutely no purpose in the Kings kingdom and has no part in the future. The proof is all on him as to why he should start, or even play major minutes, flying in the face of every rebuilding principle. ot say he has not met that proof is an understatement. To put it more correctly, there is no way that Mikki Moore, with his talent, ever could. He is not an NBA starter under any circumstances, let alone in front of promising youngsters on a rebuilding squad.

P.S. Jerry West made the Kobe quote, Del Harris was the coach, and the quote was made whether you choose to beleive it or not. I will assume that you are not going to attempt the old debating trick of focusing on miutiae of that nature as some sort of disproof of the overall point that Kobe came straight out of high school onto a team trying to contend for a title. I will aslo assume that your selctive memory is nto so slective that you are in any way going to try to claim that not starting talented rookies or 2nd year players is at all the norm for rebuilding teams.

 

[macadocious]

I vote for whatever gives us the better chance to lose the most games.

 

[Kingster]

I don't know about practices but "playing at least as productive" as those clowns, er I mean Moore/Miller is not at all encouraging. I find it intriguing that many King fans think asking Hawes/JT to completely outplay Mikki Moore is apparently too much to ask for. That the pressure of beating out a vet would somehow ruin their little fragile minds. I happen to think the youngsters not only can handle the pressure, they will strive in it.

It doesn't have to do with the youngins completely outplaying the oldsters. It has to do with acknowledging the obvious - the youngins are the future of this franchise and the fewer minutes they get, the longer it's going to take for them to develop, and the longer it's going to take for us to see a decent product on the floor. To play the oldsters for the sake of MAYBE winning a few more games is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

It doesn't have to do with the youngins completely outplaying the oldsters. It has to do with acknowledging the obvious - the youngins are the future of this franchise and the fewer minutes they get, the longer it's going to take for them to develop, and the longer it's going to take for us to see a decent product on the floor. To play the oldsters for the sake of MAYBE winning a few more games is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Dingdingdingdingding! we have a winner!!!

I completely agree with this message. Also, developing talent that's losing close games is -more fun to watch- than veterans that are losing close games. Thats because I can think "gee, maybe in a year when these guys are a little better, we'll win this game".

 

[VF21]

I had to be away from the board all day yesterday (yes, it sometimes happens ), and I've just finished reading all the great posts in this thread.

The one thing that keeps coming through, regardless of people's actual answer to the poll, is their passion for developing the kids. If Reggie can tap into that instead of continuing to fight it either openly or covertly, his future would be pretty secure. It seems to me, however, that he just doesn't get it. He may talk the talk on occasion, but he certainly hasn't - at least to this point in time - walked the walk.

I mentioned it a couple of days ago - I think his "I have to win" attitude is irreversible and I suspect it will be his eventual downfall, at least at the helm of the Kings.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I had to be away from the board all day yesterday (yes, it sometimes happens ), and I've just finished reading all the great posts in this thread.

The one thing that keeps coming through, regardless of people's actual answer to the poll, is their passion for developing the kids. If Reggie can tap into that instead of continuing to fight it either openly or covertly, his future would be pretty secure. It seems to me, however, that he just doesn't get it. He may talk the talk on occasion, but he certainly hasn't - at least to this point in time - walked the walk.

I mentioned it a couple of days ago - I think his "I have to win" attitude is irreversible and I suspect it will be his eventual downfall, at least at the helm of the Kings.

The problem I have with Reggie is that he's putting management in a situation where they have to trade the veterans in order to get him to limit their minutes and increase the younger players' minutes. They shouldn't have to do that, that's too much to do for a guy only in his second year of coaching.

I hope they look into Brian Shaw in the offseason before someone else snatches him up, he'd be perfect for us. If only we had gotten him a year ago when the timing was even better.

 

[beb0p]

The thing that every Kings fan but you realizes is that they have ALREADY completely outplayed Mikki Moore.

I know you have done your best to ignore these, but they aren't going away until you confront and explain:
Does no young player start in the league unuless they are performing at an All Star level?

The way you framed the question lead me to believe you have no clue what my position is. I think many other posters do get it, even if they don't agree.

With that in mind, I'll explain again: No question JT/Hawes have outplayed Moore in many games. And indeed they ARE getting the minutes. Sometimes JT/Hawes would get in funk and let Moore outplay them. Often times, they outplayed Moore. And the result is often times Hawes/JT get more mins than Moore, sometimes not. No doubt you like to see Hawes/JT get 40 mins every night, but getting 25 mins per is still pretty good, imo. Certainly one cannot say that Reggie doesn't play the youngons because he obviously does. The disagreement is that many think he should play them more often. I think that anything beyond the 25 mins JT/Hawes will have to earn. Furthermore, it shouldn't be that hard for JT/Hawes to earn 10 mins away from Mikki "I Suck" Moore. While fans like you apparently think the coach should just hand the minutes to them on a platter, even if they didn't earn it.

I think what I'm ok with, is the fact that on those nights where a young kid just doesn't have it, it's ok to sit him and let him reflect and/or to preserve his confidence and play the vet if the vet is bringing the goods. I think here is where we disagree, you'd want the kids on the floor even when his bags are empty while I accept that it's ok to play him less than 20 mins on certain nights. This is another way of saying: earn your minutes.

I don't think just giving them minutes is the be-all-end-all of this argument. What's more important at this point, is for the young guys to learn from their mistakes. Be it 25 mins or 40 mins, if the kid is still making the same mistakes then there's no progress. The bottom line is, Theus giving the kids 25 mins vs 35 mins is NOT enough ground for me to call for his firing. Especially when we're just 20 games into the season.

And lastly, I find it hilarious that the same people who trash Mikki Moore would inadverdently raise him when the argument suit them. I never said a youngster need to play at an all-star level to take a job away from a vet. I said JT/Hawes need to completely outplay Moore, that's all. And one certainly does NOT need to play at an all-star level to completely outplay Mikki Moore. If you had watched some of Atlanta's games instead of just looking at the stats, there's no question that Al Horford can tie one hand behind his back and still completely and utterly outplays Zaza Pachulia. Horford never has to worry about losing minutes to anyone because he is irreplaceable on that team. In fact, how Horford casted aside Pachulia should be the standard of how Hawes/JT should do to Mikki Moore.

Its not even close enough to conceal the obvious fact its just an excuse. Mikki Moore serves absolutely no purpose in the Kings kingdom and has no part in the future. The proof is all on him as to why he should start, or even play major minutes, flying in the face of every rebuilding principle. ot say he has not met that proof is an understatement. To put it more correctly, there is no way that Mikki Moore, with his talent, ever could. He is not an NBA starter under any circumstances, let alone in front of promising youngsters on a rebuilding squad.

P.S. Jerry West made the Kobe quote, Del Harris was the coach, and the quote was made whether you choose to beleive it or not. I will assume that you are not going to attempt the old debating trick of focusing on miutiae of that nature as some sort of disproof of the overall point that Kobe came straight out of high school onto a team trying to contend for a title. I will aslo assume that your selctive memory is nto so slective that you are in any way going to try to claim that not starting talented rookies or 2nd year players is at all the norm for rebuilding teams.

Again, you made it sound like I want Mikki Moore to start? When the fact is, I'd rather he join KT9 on the sideline. This isn't about Mikki Moore or Brad Miller, or even JT/Hawes. This is about Theus' job and rebuilding the Kings. The big picture is: we are rebuilding nicely. Giving the Hawes/JT the starting jobs are not priority as much as getting them ready down the line. How much Mikki/Brad/JT/Hawes play now is irrelevant as long as Hawes/JT are starters by next season. And all signs point to that being on schedule. And thus, there's no problem.

 

[Warhawk]

With that in mind, I'll explain again: No question JT/Hawes have outplayed Moore in many games. And indeed they ARE getting the minutes. Sometimes JT/Hawes would get in funk and let Moore outplay them. Often times, they outplayed Moore. And the result is often times Hawes/JT get more mins than Moore, sometimes not. No doubt you like to see Hawes/JT get 40 mins every night, but getting 25 mins per is still pretty good, imo. Certainly one cannot say that Reggie doesn't play the youngons because he obviously does. The disagreement is that many think he should play them more often. I think that anything beyond the 25 mins JT/Hawes will have to earn. Furthermore, it shouldn't be that hard for JT/Hawes to earn 10 mins away from Mikki "I Suck" Moore. While fans like you apparently think the coach should just hand the minutes to them on a platter, even if they didn't earn it.

I think what I'm ok with, is the fact that on those nights where a young kid just doesn't have it, it's ok to sit him and let him reflect and/or to preserve his confidence and play the vet if the vet is bringing the goods. I think here is where we disagree, you'd want the kids on the floor even when his bags are empty while I accept that it's ok to play him less than 20 mins on certain nights. This is another way of saying: earn your minutes.

I don't think just giving them minutes is the be-all-end-all of this argument. What's more important at this point, is for the young guys to learn from their mistakes. Be it 25 mins or 40 mins, if the kid is still making the same mistakes then there's no progress. The bottom line is, Theus giving the kids 25 mins vs 35 mins is NOT enough ground for me to call for his firing. Especially when we're just 20 games into the season.

And lastly, I find it hilarious that the same people who trash Mikki Moore would inadverdently raise him when the argument suit them. I never said a youngster need to play at an all-star level to take a job away from a vet. I said JT/Hawes need to completely outplay Moore, that's all. And one certainly does NOT need to play at an all-star level to completely outplay Mikki Moore. If you had watched some of Atlanta's games instead of just looking at the stats, there's no question that Al Horford can tie one hand behind his back and still completely and utterly outplays Zaza Pachulia. Horford never has to worry about losing minutes to anyone because he is irreplaceable on that team. In fact, how Horford casted aside Pachulia should be the standard of how Hawes/JT should do to Mikki Moore.

Again, you made it sound like I want Mikki Moore to start? When the fact is, I'd rather he join KT9 on the sideline. This isn't about Mikki Moore or Brad Miller, or even JT/Hawes. This is about Theus' job and rebuilding the Kings. The big picture is: we are rebuilding nicely. Giving the Hawes/JT the starting jobs are not priority as much as getting them ready down the line. How much Mikki/Brad/JT/Hawes play now is irrelevant as long as Hawes/JT are starters by next season. And all signs point to that being on schedule. And thus, there's no problem.

Just a couple comments, especially concentrating on the bolded items.

It is my opinion that the kids are already playing better than some vets and therefore have already earned more minutes (say, more than the 25 you imply to be a "minimum"). You seem to imply that outplaying the vets on average isn't enough, and I say it is. And not just in "many games", I'd say most games. The stats bear that out. And that is how they will improve, by playing. Moore isn't going to improve significantly with more PT - he is who he is - and while I appreciate the intangibles he brings, that isn't enough to keep him starting over the kids IMHO. I don't think an isolated good game from Moore means the kids haven't earned the right to start, especially given our need to develop them. And I really don't get your last bolded statement - you seem to ignore the fact that the best way to get them ready to start next year is more PT this year!

 

[Aenadin]

if they are going to replace theus i would have to agree on interviewing shaw might as well interview mario elie and doug collins... guys who have played beside or coached nba greats im pretty sure mario elie can teach hawes how hakeem does his post moves... doug collins coached the great mj and shaw.... we know where he came from

but nonetheless if they keep theus ... they need to get his assistants to work on defense

 

[beb0p]

you seem to ignore the fact that the best way to get them ready to start next year is more PT this year!

I think this highlights the difference between me and several posters. I don't think that extra few minutes makes much difference down the line. That's not to say I don't want them to play 35+ mins each night; I see it as a bonus, not a necessity. While I want the kids to play, I don't see any evidence that playing 35+ mins vs 25+ mins yield better future result. I just don't see how that extra 10 mins a game in 2008 is going to be the difference between Hawes/JT being a franchise player or a scrub player in 2012. I believe each player is different, and as long as they're progressing (and they are) the Kings are fine.

There are many cases of young guys who played less than 20 mins in his rookie year and went on to become All-Stars. There are cases of rookies who were given starting jobs and folded down the line. There is no rule that says the more minutes given in the trying years = better players.

Also, It's not as if Reggie put Hawes/JT in the doghouse. The kids are getting good minutes and it's only going to get more as the season progress and they learn to stay on the floor. The bottom line is, this rebuilding is right on schedule, why all the panic?

 

[Warhawk]

I think this highlights the difference between me and several posters. I don't think that extra few minutes makes much difference down the line. That's not to say I don't want them to play 35+ mins each night; I see it as a bonus, not a necessity. While I want the kids to play, I don't see any evidence that playing 35+ mins vs 25+ mins yield better future result. I just don't see how that extra 10 mins a game in 2008 is going to be the difference between Hawes/JT being a franchise player or a scrub player in 2012. I believe each player is different, and as long as they're progressing (and they are) the Kings are fine.

There are many cases of young guys who played less than 20 mins in his rookie year and went on to become All-Stars. There are cases of rookies who were given starting jobs and folded down the line. There is no rule that says the more minutes given in the trying years = better players.

Also, It's not as if Reggie put Hawes/JT in the doghouse. The kids are getting good minutes and it's only going to get more as the season progress and they learn to stay on the floor. The bottom line is, this rebuilding is right on schedule, why all the panic?

I see your point, but if the kids are already outplaying the vets (unless they are being showcased for a trade), why not play them more minutes? And they are outplaying the vets. What do you stand to lose, whether they advance faster or not? There is only upside and no downside to that direction. More PT is the best thing for the kids. Let's give it to them and let them run with it.

 

[FakeInjury]

Only wise men/women know for sure, that they know nothing. Coach Reggie Theus seemingly is wise. But, wisdom is only valuable to those who can bottle it and convey it to others for gain. Reggie could be a socio-genius with an IQ of....you get the point; Where is the evidence that this might be the case? No where can it be found. Because theus isn't a social genius, or even an intelligent person. He is a jock, and i honestly believe shaq is a better actor. You might be asking yourself...why does it matter if shaq can act better? It matters, and don't fool yourself thinking it doesn't. D coach, D actor, C++ player = Stop stalking the kings and attending their games pretending to be their father.

If theus wants to keep his job, it would serve him best to alienate all his players at once in stead of one at a time.

 

[fnordius]

Current stats for those arguing about who is outplaying who overall. Stats are per 36 minutes, because that was what I had handy and didn't want to recalculate them all. Take Shelden's stats with a grain of salt, his low minutes mean this might not be a representative sampling in his case.

Player............PER.....Pts/36.....Reb/36.....Asst/36.....Blk/36.....Stl/36..FG%...Roland Rating
KMartin..........18.6....21.7........2.8..........2.9...........0.3.........1.1...456.....-1.2
JSalmons........16.8....18.2........3.4..........2.9...........0.2.........1.1...505.....+0.3
SHawes..........16.6....15.6........8.9..........1.8...........2.4.........0.9...497.....-1.0
JThompson......15.6....15.1........9.2..........1.4..........0.6..........1.1...548.....-3.5
SWilliams.........15.6...13.5........9.3..........1.0..........1.5..........1.5...450.....-4.2
BMiller............15.5....12.8........8.2..........4.9..........0.5..........0.8...460.....-2.1
BUdrih............15.0....14.4........3.7..........6.1..........0.1..........1.4...482.....+1.6
BBrown...........12.5....15.4........1.9..........5.1..........0.0..........0.9...475.....-4.0
MMoore...........10.7.....9.3........7.0..........1.3..........0.5..........0.8...586.....-0.3
BJackson.........10.2.....11.1.......4.8..........3.8..........0.0..........0.9...391.....-5.8
Rest: mateen

 

[tradepeja]

I see your point, but if the kids are already outplaying the vets (unless they are being showcased for a trade), why not play them more minutes? And they are outplaying the vets. What do you stand to lose, whether they advance faster or not? There is only upside and no downside to that direction. More PT is the best thing for the kids. Let's give it to them and let them run with it.

I think you're the one missing his point now. He thinks there is a downside: the loss of a sense of "earning" their minutes. If you put them there on a platter, what will be there incentive to improve?

Just to be clear here, I'm not sure if I believe that or not, I'm just trying to sort it out for you.

bebop does lay down an pretty interesting truth that seems to void his "platter" claim though

There are many cases of young guys who played less than 20 mins in his rookie year and went on to become All-Stars. There are cases of rookies who were given starting jobs and folded down the line. There is no rule that says the more minutes given in the trying years = better players.

This is an absolute truth. Guys like Kobe Bryant and Jermaine O'Neal were basically relegated to garbage time their first couple years in the league, while ultra busts like Kwame Brown were starting 80 games by their second year.

The thing is, if that statement proves that their added minutes will in no way hurt them (most likely, it would help them...a lot), then what is the argument for keeping them off the floor if they don't "earn" their minutes over the seedy vets?

I think we're all just tied up in a really fallacious argument here. Let's all just sit down, relax, and watch the Kings play a good game tonight. You know....a single digit loss .