Fire Reggie Theus (re-revisited)
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PurpleHaze
All-Star
TheFifthMookie
Bench
My vote went from "Not ready to call for his dismissal," to "Leaning towards yes"
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Continuity is not a particular virtue in and of itself. Mikki Moore was our starting PF last year. We could continue starting Mikki Moore this year, resign him, start him next year and the year after and that would be continuity. That would also suck. Continuity only becomes a true virtue when you get the right personnel in place. Rick Adelman was the right personnel. Hence continuity. Reggie Theus is almost surely not. There is no inherent value in keeping the wrong coach just to say you kept your coach. We could have just keep Muss at that rate.
I wouold prefer Reggie just grew up, played the kids, took his lumps, and got canned after the year was done for the guy who hopefully would become the continuity coach. But if he can't or won't do that canning him a few months earlier, whether it be for a continuity coach or just one of his assistants willing to play the kids for the remainder of the year, isn't going to make that big a difference.
I wouold prefer Reggie just grew up, played the kids, took his lumps, and got canned after the year was done for the guy who hopefully would become the continuity coach. But if he can't or won't do that canning him a few months earlier, whether it be for a continuity coach or just one of his assistants willing to play the kids for the remainder of the year, isn't going to make that big a difference.
G_M
Starter
There's something I don't undertand about this situation. Joe Maloof goes public with his disastisfaction of certain issues regarding the team. However, my reading of his statements would suggest his STRONG sentiment in favor of more playing time for the "young" guys trumps most of the other concerns. I would also suggest that the ownership and GM realize that playing the "young" guys will result in fewer wins. The corresponding number of fewer wins given the medicre caliber of the veterans is debatable.
However, the allotment of playing time thus far for the "young" guys is seemingly low. So, why the disconnect between Ownership-GM-Coach? It makes no sense to me. Given what we know so far it seems the surest route to losing his job is to deviate from prime objective #1 which is play the "young" guys. Isn't the excitement of watching a young team develop more likey to increase attendance?
I'm confused.....
tradepeja
Starter
Truer words have not been spoken in a while. I'm hoping for the first time since late last year (that damn NO game we won to give Kobe the MVP....
) for a Kings loss on Saturday against Denver so this whole ordeal can just be over with.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Truer words have not been spoken in a while. I'm hoping for the first time since late last year (that damn NO game we won to give Kobe the MVP....
You touched on something with that Denver game. This Saturday we should be completly healthy plus coming off 3 straight days off with practice. Now If we don't show dramatic improvment or if we don't play the kids or we just stay the same losing by 2 or so I believe Reggie is gone next week. By dramatic improvment I mean winning by double digits and looking fluid on both ends of the court.
Is there any reason in particular why you think that beating a better team by double digits is, in any way, a reasonable expectation, even with practice?
I'm fine with losing by 2, it's a lot better than losing by...
Oct. 31: 25 points (Miami)
Nov. 1: 18 points (Orlando)
Nov. 3: 34 points (Philly)
Nov 18: 15 points (Memphis)
Nov 21: 21 points (Portland)
Nov 28: 26 points (Utah)
Nov 29: 23 points (Dallas)
Our point differential this season is -7.4, better than only OKC and LAC.
As far as I'm concerned... bring on the 2-point losses!
Entity
Hall of Famer
chalk this one up to a point that you missed. I think right now the organzation has taken the built in excuses. Injurys, suspensions, alot of games in one month. Now they have health and time off. I am thinking the leash just got alot shorter and if they don't see something different then Reggie is gone. Reasonable??? Uhm at what point in time did the decision making of the owners of this franchise become reasonable?? Why would they start now?
Entity
Hall of Famer
Wow I guess I need to be a little more precise. point blank. Baring a complete turn around in the kids playing time or a winning streak of some sort. Reggie is as good as gone before christmas. good showings will not cut it any longer unless Jason Thompson, Spencer Hawes get 35+min and Greene 10 to 15.
Rookie
Starter
This is not for the people that want to see us win games and get to the playoff this year.
I'm taking my vote back from leaning toward yes back to wait and see.
Ignore what you see and look at the objectives then you see we are meeting those objectives. We got two objectives, one to get a good draft position and developed the kids, mainly our 1st round picks, to get ready for 2010. (This is based on my view from reading Kingsfans the off season).
1. Development being met. We only got two guys that we were hyped about and that is in Hawes and Thompson.
Fact: Spencer Hawes improved if not better than expected at least as expected. This is being done after one year under Theus and I don't do IF. He got more playing time as well and starting more games and still show improvements.
Opinion: Thompson is showing signs that he can be a good player but to see how well he developed requires atleast more time because he's still new. Unless you think 20 games is enough to show whether he developed well or not, I think it is too soon to see where Thompson stands with the rest of the rookies. But the fact is he is proving that he is doing well in the NBA, which mean his transition from college to the NBA is going well.
2. Gettting good draft pick.
Need I say more?
I'm glad I can't see much of the game but from all the hyped about those two guys from the off season and making it real in the regular season..I don't see the problem.
If you can prove to me that Hawes development suck and he's not at the stage where he should be and the same for Thompson then I might just moved back to leaning toward yes but for now it will be wait and see.
I'm taking my vote back from leaning toward yes back to wait and see.
Ignore what you see and look at the objectives then you see we are meeting those objectives. We got two objectives, one to get a good draft position and developed the kids, mainly our 1st round picks, to get ready for 2010. (This is based on my view from reading Kingsfans the off season).
1. Development being met. We only got two guys that we were hyped about and that is in Hawes and Thompson.
Fact: Spencer Hawes improved if not better than expected at least as expected. This is being done after one year under Theus and I don't do IF. He got more playing time as well and starting more games and still show improvements.
Opinion: Thompson is showing signs that he can be a good player but to see how well he developed requires atleast more time because he's still new. Unless you think 20 games is enough to show whether he developed well or not, I think it is too soon to see where Thompson stands with the rest of the rookies. But the fact is he is proving that he is doing well in the NBA, which mean his transition from college to the NBA is going well.
2. Gettting good draft pick.
Need I say more? I'm glad I can't see much of the game but from all the hyped about those two guys from the off season and making it real in the regular season..I don't see the problem.
If you can prove to me that Hawes development suck and he's not at the stage where he should be and the same for Thompson then I might just moved back to leaning toward yes but for now it will be wait and see.
This is where we disagree. I think most here are not too upset about losing more games than we win - we just are not that good of a team. But the way Thompson has been yanked in and out of the lineup is just stupid. Let the kid play. He will collect fouls, so what? Let him play through that and get some solid minutes. That is my biggest frustration with Reggie is he is keeping Thompson and Greene and Brown (and still, to some extent, Hawes) from getting serious minutes to develop. We aren't winning any championship this year, so why are Moore and Jackson out there so much? This is the perfect time to get the young guys more time!
TheFifthMookie
Bench
For me, its either win games, or play our future over half of the game time. and that means thompson, greene, hawes, martin, garcia, b brown. If you win while playing those guys thats a bonus.
FakeInjury
Bench
if he started and played Douby for 36 minutes, i would forgive him because...it would mean theus is thinking outside of the box. of if theus wore a dunce cap during a game, then started playing small ball out of nowhere, then we would start to accomplish SOMETHING. Theus is slowing(retarding) alot of potential development. The movie "Eddie" comes to mind. This game is all about entertainment, therefore it would be very entertaining to see a fan/coach for one game. or a cat coach. literally have a small cat carrier on the floor calling "meows"(plays)
BawLa
Starter
Kings players voice support for Theus
By Sam Amick
Published: Friday, Dec. 05, 2008 | Page 1C
The Kings see the headlines, too.
They saw how Toronto head coach Sam Mitchell was fired Wednesday, and how Oklahoma City's P.J. Carlesimo and Washington's Eddie Jordan were shown the door just weeks ago. And they are well aware their own coach, Reggie Theus, is under increasing scrutiny as his hot seat grows hotter every day...
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/1450691.html
By Sam Amick
Published: Friday, Dec. 05, 2008 | Page 1C
The Kings see the headlines, too.
They saw how Toronto head coach Sam Mitchell was fired Wednesday, and how Oklahoma City's P.J. Carlesimo and Washington's Eddie Jordan were shown the door just weeks ago. And they are well aware their own coach, Reggie Theus, is under increasing scrutiny as his hot seat grows hotter every day...
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/1450691.html
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Rookie
Starter
If you're upset because Thompson made mistakes and get yanked then how do you teach Thompson to prevent from being fouled out, or played poorly here and there? Let him continue?
I totally agreed that at this point even you could be better than Moore but I could careless about him playing or not.
From previous thread somewhere I remembered Thompson is ranked pretty well in the rookies section. Whether it has anything to do with Theus or not, I'm not sure, but so far he is doing fine. And by the end of the year if he is ranked higher than 12, I would say Theus did his job.
Jerryaki
Starter
yes.
teach him by yanking him when the games matter (i.e. not this lost season). yanking him this season for little mistakes in games that don't matter isn't going to do anything but play with his rhythm and confidence.
Rookie
Starter
If someone made a mistake and get penalized they're more inclined not to do it again. Just my opinion.
I agreed with what you're saying and that was why I was leaning toward yes. But then I took a step back and look at the objectives prior to the starting of the season. I also was pissed at the rotation as well but in the end, does any of that really matter?
GP was being critized by a lot for picking Thompson at 12. Now Thompson is proving that he belongs and as a fan I would like to see more of him as well. But the fact is that he is better than expected. Then the question is was it because of him and noone else or part of the training? To me that requires time to evaluate and answered. Way too early to tell. But Hawes has shown that he is developing well.
Does that one game matter enough to ignore whatever mistakes he made?
Look, really, at this point wins and losses are secondary.
Thompson and Hawes should, at a minimum, be playing 30+ minutes a game unless they are injured or foul out. Period.
If they keep fouling (and foul out) they reduce their own playing time and Miller and Moore get more minutes. If they pick up a couple cheap rookie-based fouls but know they will still get their minutes if they play smarter, they will learn quickly which fouls are good and which are dumb. But they need the PT to develop that feel and also to develop as players. You cannot replicate that in shootarounds.
If they are really doing bonehead things, yes, pull them out for a few and let them go back in after a "discussion". But most of the fouls JT and Hawes get are touch-fouls because they are 1st/2nd year players - pulling them out isn't warranted. Let them play through their mistakes and learn.
We are trying to build for the future. Players need time to grow on the court together to develop chemistry. 2-3 minute stints won't develop that. It takes months and years of game experience to get good. The kids need that time, and no better time than now.
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Okay, so he has the support of the starting vets, but the only bench guy quoted sounded more ambivalent. And nobody under 25 was quoted, or even referred to. I can't say that this changes my impression of... anything.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
Agreed. Theus plays the vets. Vets support Theus. No youngins quoted giving support. No surprise. Of course the vets have no interest in having the kids play.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Players coming out publicly and defending their coach is a kiss of death if ever there was one.
When ever player publicly stick up for the coach, the coach gets the chop not too long afterwards.
I am pretty sure Martin was saying the same things about Muss. This is no different. I was of the opinion that Theus will see out the season regardless of what happens but I am now learning to the opinion that he will be fired before the end of the season and possibly by the All-Star break.
When ever player publicly stick up for the coach, the coach gets the chop not too long afterwards.
I am pretty sure Martin was saying the same things about Muss. This is no different. I was of the opinion that Theus will see out the season regardless of what happens but I am now learning to the opinion that he will be fired before the end of the season and possibly by the All-Star break.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Ahhh, yes! Exactly! Do you honestly think a player doesn't know when he makes a mistake? Do you think they don't know when they make a bad pass? Have you ever made a mistake and felt terrible about it, and then someone else started hammering you about it? Did that make you feel better? Did that make you want to improve any more than before?
What it does is make you play tight. It makes you play nervous. Try hitting a 92 mph fastball when your tight. You show me a player in any sport thats worried about making a mistake, and I'll show you a player, that I guarnatee you, will make more mistakes than he normaly would.
Why isn't Miller yanked after making a couple of bonehead passes. Why isn't Beno yanked after every turnover. Why not Salmons when he forgets the time clock and turns it over. There's a double standard here. Its not unusual. Most coaches tend to rely on the vet's more. But this isn't a normal situation, and Reggie needs to cut the youngsters some slack, and let them play.
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I agree, let the rooks play through their mistakes. The 20+ coaches have plenty of time to provide feedback later - during timeouts, half-time, after the game, while reviewing the game tape, etc. A Vlade-like coach/player would be perfect to guide and develop the rookies on-court, but we just don't have that type of vet right now.
To compound the issue, there seems to be a vets vs. rookies mentality that surfaces on the court. On many occasions, I've noticed the vets totally ignoring the rookies - not passing to them, not encouraging them, and not even looking at them. It's like a team divided - looking out for their own.
To compound the issue, there seems to be a vets vs. rookies mentality that surfaces on the court. On many occasions, I've noticed the vets totally ignoring the rookies - not passing to them, not encouraging them, and not even looking at them. It's like a team divided - looking out for their own.
6th
Homer Fan Since 1985
Excellent, excellent response. I could not agree more.
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