Fire Geoff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kings113]

I wasn't differing to any of them. Just saying what I've gathered on those big men drafted the last 3 drafts.

Varejao, yes, he's not an interior presence, a hustle/energy/team player big like Lee.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... The last big man who has had a significant impact that was not one of the top picks was Stoudomire @ #9. Our last pick that high was J Will (who we took over Paul Pierce)...

That's a matter of opinion: I think that Magliore has turned out to be a big of some significance, and Petrie passed on him for Turkoglu.

 

[Kings113]

That's a matter of opinion: I think that Magliore has turned out to be a big of some significance, and Petrie passed on him for Turkoglu.

I think he did that because of Webber/Vlade/Pollard/Funderburke (think he was there)/Corliss all being there. Obviously he couldn't predict the future. Mainly because of the first three.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Perhaps not, but he possibly could have traded Pollard, who was then at the peak of his trade value, for a young swingman, and been better off.

 

[nbrans]

Perhaps not, but he possibly could have traded Pollard, who was then at the peak of his trade value, for a young swingman, and been better off.

Don't forget the role Hedo played in 2002 -- we almost made it to the Finals with Peja injured because of how good Hedo was, and in 2003 we took the Mavericks to game 7 with Hedo at power forward. He, along with Pollard, also brought us Brad Miller. I think it's safe to say that Petrie made a good choice.

 

[Bricklayer]

It's strange that you think Petrie has an aversion to defensive big men when he drafted Michael Smith, brought in Pollard, brought in Keon Clark, brought in Ostertag, brought in Brian Skinner... up until the end of this past season the Kings have always had one on the roster. I think the bigger problem is that good defensive big men are very hard to come by.

Do you realize what a weak list that is for a 10 year span from a GM? Scot Pollard was the only one who even stuck.

Geoff has done much better with the little guys, and there may well be a little Don Nelson in the whole thing. It wasn't that Don didn't acquire shotblockers ort big men (see Bradley, Shawn), it was just that he didn't acquire the RIGHT ones. Had a much better feel for the smalls and saw the game as a game of skill.

 

[nbrans]

Do you realize what a weak list that is for a 10 year span from a GM? Scot Pollard was the only one who even stuck.

Geoff has done much better with the little guys, and there may well be a little Don Nelson in the whole thing. It wasn't that Don didn't acquire shotblockers ort big men (see Bradley, Shawn), it was just that he didn't acquire the RIGHT ones. Had a much better feel for the smalls and saw the game as a game of skill.

Er, a 10 year span? How about a six year span that includes one of the best backup centers in the recent history of the NBA and one defensive or rebounding specialist (or both) on the roster at all times. Right now the pieces don't fit, but it's been only a year an a half since the Webber trade and Geoff signed the ONLY good big man available last season to a bargain deal. This offseason hasn't worked out as planned, but there's still time to add another big defensive specialist. And if not this offseason then it will happen sooner or later.

It's really easy to snap your fingers and criticize Geoff for not adding a defensive big man to the roster, but it's not that easy. They're tough to come by.

 

[SacTownKid]

Do you realize what a weak list that is for a 10 year span from a GM? Scot Pollard was the only one who even stuck.

Geoff has done much better with the little guys, and there may well be a little Don Nelson in the whole thing. It wasn't that Don didn't acquire shotblockers ort big men (see Bradley, Shawn), it was just that he didn't acquire the RIGHT ones. Had a much better feel for the smalls and saw the game as a game of skill.

That is stricly because of coaching. Keon, Tag, and Brian are/were very solid defesive big men. Adelman didn't use them effectively. So in reality, Rick Adelman did much better with "the little guys".

I actually think Geoff has done a very good job at adding defensive big men.

 

[Kings113]

Skinner and Sampson would be used if they were still here come opening night.

Anyway, I expect us to get at least one defensive big man through FA or through trade. Depending if KT's gone, then two. Plus one or both of Amundson/Justin Williams.

 

[Bricklayer]

Er, a 10 year span?

You raised Michael Smith, not me. Doesn't really qualify anyway. Michael Stewart might have fit better, and he wasn't any good either.

It's really easy to snap your fingers and criticize Geoff for not adding a defensive big man to the roster, but it's not that easy. They're tough to come by.

But far from impossible. We've seen them move around the league again this offseason -- what is lacking is the conviction to get one, not the availability. Even most of the names you listed have been acquired as afterthoughts or low hanging fruit. When is the last time we have actually PURSUED one worth pursuing?

 

[nbrans]

But far from impossible. We've seen them move around the league again this offseason -- what is lacking is the conviction to get one, not the availability. Even most of the names you listed have been acquired as afterthoughts or low hanging fruit. When is the last time we have actually PURSUED one worth pursuing?

Yes, those defensive big men have literally flown around the league, all two of them. We lacked the cap space for Ben Wallace, and the convenient serviceability/expiring contract of PJ Brown to trade for Chandler, and damn Przybilla and his loyalty chose not to fly and so he stayed where he was.

You can summon all the conviction you want, but it doesn't change the fact that defensive bigs don't just show up because you really really want them to.

When was the last time we actually pursued one? Well, it's rumored that KT has been dangled for Magloire. Maybe if we all put our conviction together we can make it happen.

 

[Kingzrool]

Well, it's rumored that KT has been dangled for Magloire. Maybe if we all put our conviction together we can make it happen.

Well count my conviction in!

 

[Kings113]

Yes, those defensive big men have literally flown around the league, all two of them. We lacked the cap space for Ben Wallace, and the convenient serviceability/expiring contract of PJ Brown to trade for Chandler, and damn Przybilla and his loyalty chose not to fly and so he stayed where he was.

You can summon all the conviction you want, but it doesn't change the fact that defensive bigs don't just show up because you really really want them to.

When was the last time we actually pursued one? Well, it's rumored that KT has been dangled for Magloire. Maybe if we all put our conviction together we can make it happen.

Agreed.

And Nazr wanted the MLE, but we were still in the process of dealing with Bonzi. Wasn't over yet either. Since Petrie said it ended 10 days ago, on the day we got Salmons.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yes, those defensive big men have literally flown around the league, all two of them. We lacked the cap space for Ben Wallace, and the convenient serviceability/expiring contract of PJ Brown to trade for Chandler, and damn Przybilla and his loyalty chose not to fly and so he stayed where he was.

You can summon all the conviction you want, but it doesn't change the fact that defensive bigs don't just show up because you really really want them to.

When was the last time we actually pursued one? Well, it's rumored that KT has been dangled for Magloire. Maybe if we all put our conviction together we can make it happen.

We've been through the list before: in the last year alone these defensive bigs have hit the market or changed addresses via trade: Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler (PJ Brown too actually), Nazr Mohammed, Rasho Nesterovic (borderline), Dan Gadzuric, Eddie Griffin, Samuel Dalembert, Jamaal Magliore, Stromile Swift, parens on Nene (borderline) and Reggie Evans (rebounder), DeSagana Diop, Francisco Elson, Darko Milicic, Kelvin Cato, Theo Ratliff, Joel Pryzbilla, Zydrunas Ilguaskas (shotblocker, but not really great defender), Steven Hunter, Kurt Thomas (old)....and I'm probably missing a few.

 

[Gary]

I have a feeling about the crop we are bringing to training camp this year. I think a lot of GMs with 2nd round picks will be pissed that we got the 2 big names that went undrafted. In that aspect Petrie did a good job. Now I hope Musselman uses them better than *the other guy* would have. *edit for bad words*

 

[VF21]

You know, at this point can we just agree to quit poking sticks at Rick Adelman? It's really getting tiresome already.

 

[Gary]

As sour of a subject as it is some comments have to contain *the name* in order to be understood by some.

 

[SacTownKid]

How is that poking sticks? Simply opinions on how Rick Adelman used/misused certain talent the last few years.

 

[VF21]

Gary - Yeah, because we didn't get enough of you making "FIRE ADELMAN" posts while he was still here.

You can look forward to Musselman having a different approach without having to go Voisin on Adelman 24/7.
-------------------
STK - Gary knew exactly what I was talking about. He was the most vehement and vocal opponent of anything good about Adelman for a very long time.

But hey... whatever floats your boats.

 

[thatguy]

But far from impossible. We've seen them move around the league again this offseason -- what is lacking is the conviction to get one, not the availability. Even most of the names you listed have been acquired as afterthoughts or low hanging fruit. When is the last time we have actually PURSUED one worth pursuing?

That's a bit misleading because he could be passing on them everyday. Or he may never havce passed on one. There is no way to know.

Huh.

 

[nbrans]

We've been through the list before: in the last year alone these defensive bigs have hit the market or changed addresses via trade: Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler (PJ Brown too actually), Nazr Mohammed, Rasho Nesterovic (borderline), Dan Gadzuric, Eddie Griffin, Samuel Dalembert, Jamaal Magliore, Stromile Swift, parens on Nene (borderline) and Reggie Evans (rebounder), DeSagana Diop, Francisco Elson, Darko Milicic, Kelvin Cato, Theo Ratliff, Joel Pryzbilla, Zydrunas Ilguaskas (shotblocker, but not really great defender), Steven Hunter, Kurt Thomas (old)....and I'm probably missing a few.

This is a good list, but..

Ben Wallace - out of our price range
Tyson Chandler - wish we could have gotten them but we couldn't do better than PJ Brown and JR Smith
Nazr - got a starting job, doubtful he would have come to Sac
Rasho - overpaid for a backup
Gadzuric - stayed with the same team -- I like him, but frankly I'd rather have SAR
Griffin - when your last name has become a verb for some, um, unsavory behavior, I think you have problems
Dalembert - out of our price range
Magloire - hasn't changed hands in the last year.... yet
Swift - sucks
Nene - we tried, didn't work
Evans - sucks
Diop - I'll give you Diop. We missed there, and you have to hand it to Dallas for seeing something in him
Elson - got a starting job in SA
Darko - I HOPE we made an offer for Darko last year. If not that was a big whiff
Cato - there's still time
Ratliff - overpaid
Pryzbilla - too damn loyal
Ilgauskas - out of our price range
Hunter - again, I'd rather have SAR
Thomas - doubt we could have beat the Suns' offer of Quentin Richardson

So... while in theory there were a lot of good bigs out there, I only count one definite whiff (Diop), one possible whiff (Darko) and a lot of overpaid or otherwise unattainable players.

 

[moradi420]

Gary - Yeah, because we didn't get enough of you making "FIRE ADELMAN" posts while he was still here.

You can look forward to Musselman having a different approach without having to go Voisin on Adelman 24/7.
-------------------
STK - Gary knew exactly what I was talking about. He was the most vehement and vocal opponent of anything good about Adelman for a very long time.

But hey... whatever floats your boats.

when u say vosion do u mean that lady on sacbee ailene vosion i think. She's hecka funny one time she worte that corliss should be starting in place of peja, she sure knows a lot about basketball. Lets just say that had happened peja wouldnm't have been getting minutes and then he wouldn't have as much trade value meaning we might not have been able to get ron.

Vosion makes me laugh every time i read something written by her

 

[moradi420]

This is a good list, but..

Ben Wallace - out of our price range
Tyson Chandler - wish we could have gotten them but we couldn't do better than PJ Brown and JR Smith
Nazr - got a starting job, doubtful he would have come to Sac
Rasho - overpaid for a backup
Gadzuric - stayed with the same team -- I like him, but frankly I'd rather have SAR
Griffin - when your last name has become a verb for some, um, unsavory behavior, I think you have problems
Dalembert - out of our price range
Magloire - hasn't changed hands in the last year.... yet
Swift - sucks
Nene - we tried, didn't work
Evans - sucks
Diop - I'll give you Diop. We missed there, and you have to hand it to Dallas for seeing something in him
Elson - got a starting job in SA
Darko - I HOPE we made an offer for Darko last year. If not that was a big whiff
Cato - there's still time
Ratliff - overpaid
Pryzbilla - too damn loyal
Ilgauskas - out of our price range
Hunter - again, I'd rather have SAR
Thomas - doubt we could have beat the Suns' offer of Quentin Richardson

So... while in theory there were a lot of good bigs out there, I only count one definite whiff (Diop), one possible whiff (Darko) and a lot of overpaid or otherwise unattainable players.

i kinda like griffin, hes a heckuv a shot blocker when he gets minutes, i think coach casey didn't use him correctly last year. If you ever watch fantsay hoops on nba tv, you'll see rick kamla's always talking about how he loves griffin. I'm sure we could get him for kenny thomas, and throw something else in to even up salaries. He's defense isn't great but his shot blocking is pretty tremendous

 

[nbrans]

i kinda like griffin, hes a heckuv a shot blocker when he gets minutes, i think coach casey didn't use him correctly last year. If you ever watch fantsay hoops on nba tv, you'll see rick kamla's always talking about how he loves griffin. I'm sure we could get him for kenny thomas, and throw something else in to even up salaries. He's defense isn't great but his shot blocking is pretty tremendous

What insanity is Griffin going to have to pull before Kings fans stop pining for him?

Shooting at his girlfriend? Not a problem
Repeated run-ins with the law? Not a problem
Getting into a car accident while intoxicated, watching porn and masturbating? Not a problem

If Griffin were a serial killer people would still be talking about his shotblocking.

 

[Gary]

Gary - Yeah, because we didn't get enough of you making "FIRE ADELMAN" posts while he was still here.

You can look forward to Musselman having a different approach without having to go Voisin on Adelman 24/7.
-------------------
STK - Gary knew exactly what I was talking about. He was the most vehement and vocal opponent of anything good about Adelman for a very long time.

But hey... whatever floats your boats.

When I had posted "his name" I had no intentions of poking sticks. You took it totally out of context from what I meant to say. Seriously, I was not meaning to bring up anything sour on the subject. And no I am not joking.

I know it's a subject where you and I have disagreed pretty much since 2001 but I didn't mean anythign harsh by it. Just hoping that Muss used the bigs.

 

[Kings113]

I'm done with Griffin. I thought he'd continue to be fine after 2 years of being alright and getting a 2nd chance in this league. But, he goes and does something really dumb out of the blue. Thus ended my interest in him (to the Kings). If he hadn't done that thing in the car, I'd still be interested in us getting him.

 

[Gary]

If Griffin were a serial killer people would still be talking about his shotblocking.

I belong to a boxing forum (maxboxing.com) and we ALWAYS talk about what could have been with Ike Ibeabuchi. He's in prison pretty much for the rest of his boxing life for being a crazy rapist, but we still talk about his boxing talent Anyone catch that event back in the day? Was Ibeabuchi vs. David Tua. Also on the card was Willie Jorrin, Fernando Vargas, Jose Luis Flores, Aaron Davis, among others. Was a great card.

 

[KingCookie]

I'm done with Griffin. I thought he'd continue to be fine after 2 years of being alright and getting a 2nd chance in this league. But, he goes and does something really dumb out of the blue. Thus ended my interest in him (to the Kings). If he hadn't done that thing in the car, I'd still be interested in us getting him.

So shooting at his girlfriend you're OK with, but masturbation is the last straw?

 

[thatguy]

So shooting at his girlfriend you're OK with, but masturbation is the last straw?

It must be the "while driving" part. Maybe.

 

[Kings113]

So shooting at his girlfriend you're OK with, but masturbation is the last straw?

Did I say that? No. I didn't reference toward his stuff before coming back to the league with the Wolves. Do I know about what he did before that? Yes. Am I okay with those things? No.

The rest is in my previous post.