Everything thats wrong with this team 2 words. Bellinelli,McLemore

[sactownfan]

OK two words Beinelli, McLemore

lets start with the positives.

Cousins top 5 player in the NBA. ULTRA SUPERSTAR...
Rudy is a solid wingman when he plays SF (not PF).
Rondo was a steal and a great signing plus...
Vlad hit an absolute homerun bomb with WCS! (btw since now Karl has to play him Rudy is back at SF)
Casspi is an absolute steal and an amazing 6th man.
Kosta is a tad bit of a let down...but... he's a bench big. and unlike many yrs past he is a solid bench big.

So why do we keep losing these kinda games?

Well its Rondo's fault... Sorta but pretty much.... When your PG can't shoot OR play solid stay on your man defense... YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SHOOTING GUARD THAT CAN SHOOT AND GUARD! YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE THAT KIND OF 3 AND D PLAYER .... theres no way around this.... you MUST have this player to compensate for Rondo's short comings... (btw yes rondo jumps in to passing lanes and gets steals but he can't guard PG's). Almost every team in the NBA has at least one dynamic guard... and we will continue to be destroyed by them until we find this 3 and D guy.

But right now ben has failed at developing (so far). He's at best a bench player or even just towel waver on a top team. We gambled on his growth by signing Beinelli (a top tier bench SG).

But alas Ben is still totally inconstant and the ultra bummer of the team Beinelli.. is just god awful. So were left with SG's that both can't either shoot...

To make matters worse neither can really guard either. and yeah at defense its Ben > Beinelli.

Basically we are then forced to play Collison at the 2 because these 2 anti shooting guards can't hit anything and are lost on defense. Collision is at least equal to Ben at defense but is a midget and is a PG so we have 2 PG's in our back court... and as we've seen this will just not get it done...

So buckle up cause unless Vlad gets us a 3 and D SG to be the starter.... thus making Ben a pretty solid backup. and burying Beinelli for good .... we will keep losing these games

 

[ElRey]

I agree with most of your post above, but I don't understand all the hate toward Collison sometimes. He's the backup point guard, and a quality one. It's not his fault our SGs are so bad that he has to play SG sometimes.

 

[sactownfan]

I agree with most of your post above, but I don't understand all the hate toward Collison sometimes. He's the backup point guard, and a quality one. It's not his fault our SGs are so bad that he has to play SG sometimes.

Its not his fault... But he's being exposed for being what he really is .... just a back up... like you said if his job is to spell Rondo and thats it. Then he's even solid. But he's basically unclutch and a defensive liability just like our SG's.

 

[John Galt]

OK two words Beinelli, McLemore

lets start with the positives.

Cousins top 5 player in the NBA. ULTRA SUPERSTAR...
Rudy is a solid wingman when he plays SF (not PF).
Rondo was a steal and a great signing plus...
Vlad hit an absolute homerun bomb with WCS! (btw since now Karl has to play him Rudy is back at SF)
Casspi is an absolute steal and an amazing 6th man.
Kosta is a tad bit of a let down...but... he's a bench big. and unlike many yrs past he is a solid bench big.

So why do we keep losing these kinda games?

Well its Rondo's fault... Sorta but pretty much.... When your PG can't shoot OR play solid stay on your man defense... YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SHOOTING GUARD THAT CAN SHOOT AND GUARD! YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE THAT KIND OF 3 AND D PLAYER .... theres no way around this.... you MUST have this player to compensate for Rondo's short comings... (btw yes rondo jumps in to passing lanes and gets steals but he can't guard PG's). Almost every team in the NBA has at least one dynamic guard... and we will continue to be destroyed by them until we find this 3 and D guy.

But right now ben has failed at developing (so far). He's at best a bench player or even just towel waver on a top team. We gambled on his growth by signing Beinelli (a top tier bench SG).

But alas Ben is still totally inconstant and the ultra bummer of the team Beinelli.. is just god awful. So were left with SG's that both can't either shoot...

To make matters worse neither can really guard either. and yeah at defense its Ben > Beinelli.

Basically we are then forced to play Collison at the 2 because these 2 anti shooting guards can't hit anything and are lost on defense. Collision is at least equal to Ben at defense but is a midget and is a PG so we have 2 PG's in our back court... and as we've seen this will just not get it done...

So buckle up cause unless Vlad gets us a 3 and D SG to be the starter.... thus making Ben a pretty solid backup. and burying Beinelli for good .... we will keep losing these games

Don't always agree with you but Marco needs a change of scenery - I mean here in Sac he has been a flat out bum and I don't know if he can shake it. I don't want to, but I hate the guy. Lets trade him for some other team's sharpshooter who has the yips and maybe they will both figure it out for their new team.

Ben... damn tonight he was electrifying right off the bat and then.... vanished. I don't think we know how good he is. But I'd love for him to assume a role off the bench - Marco's spot really.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

UGH -- I hate these threads after a tough loss. Someone played poorly. We get it. It happens. But you can't make a trade every other game because of it. And most importantly, if these players are as bad as you portray, nobody is going to want to trade for them, are they?

Collison generally has more good games than bad. And he's played really well for this team at times the past 2 seasons. I think the guy deserves somewhat of a pass.

As for Marco, he was brought here to essentially do one thing and he isn't doing it at all. So I definitely understand the frustration with him. I'm more frustrated with Karl continuing to stick with him in games where it's obvious he's not contributing. I'd rather see Seth Curry play because he can at least play a little defense in the event his shot isn't falling either. At this point, Marco should get very limited minutes until he earns more PT through good play. Unfortunately, Karl seems to give his vets a lot rope even when they aren't marquee players.

Karl mentioned WCS and Ben McLemore as being largely responsible for the defensive breakdowns in the 3rd quarter, but I've yet to hear him call out Marco for his poor defense all season.

 

[Livinthedream]

If Ben where in a leg cast and sitting behind the bench, it would still be his fault that we lost.

This whole narrative that he can't shoot or can't play is getting old. Karl doesn't like playing young or developing players. Simple as that.

I was listening to BJax on the pregame show on the radio and he hit it on the head. He said Ben is the 2 way player we've been waiting for but Karl doesn't run plays for him like he does for Belli. Said Ben should be mad and offended at how he's treated.

Rotations, playing time and ineffective utilization is what is wrong with our SG spot.

 

[dude12]

Bellinelli is being used incorrectly. In SA he moved the ball and hit spot up 3s. Here he's being asked to hit these damn curl shots, wonder what his % is on those. It appears his confidence is a shot right now and every shot is a struggle.

Bad defense though in a bad defensive scheme

 

[ESP47]

Its not his fault... But he's being exposed for being what he really is .... just a back up... like you said if his job is to spell Rondo and thats it. Then he's even solid. But he's basically unclutch and a defensive liability just like our SG's.

So our backup PG has been exposed for being a backup PG? Great analysis.

 

[kingsboi]

so you're saying that the SG position is what's wrong? Haven't we been saying this for the past three seasons?

 

[SacKings384]

I agree with most of your post above, but I don't understand all the hate toward Collison sometimes. He's the backup point guard, and a quality one. It's not his fault our SGs are so bad that he has to play SG sometimes.

He plays the 2 with Rondo in the clutch and he can't hit open three's to save his life. All while playing awful awful defense.

 

[Merdiesel]

If Ben gets Marco's minutes. We win in regulation. No doubt in my mind. Ben would have made at least 1 or 2 plays. Marco doesn't bring **** to this team. I'd trade him for Sessions at this point. Hell, let Jimmer take his spot... I don't really care who it is, I'd just really like to see Marco in another jersey quick.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

If Ben gets Marco's minutes. We win in regulation. No doubt in my mind. Ben would have made at least 1 or 2 plays. Marco doesn't bring **** to this team. I'd trade him for Sessions at this point. Hell, let Jimmer take his spot... I don't really care who it is, I'd just really like to see Marco in another jersey quick.

Only positive about Ben not getting many minutes last night (only around 16) is that he should be fresh for tonight. Same with Koufos.

 

[Merdiesel]

Only positive about Ben not getting many minutes last night (only around 16) is that he should be fresh for tonight. Same with Koufos.

He can have all the rest in the world. Karl will still be a stubborn old mule and bench him for 3 quarters for the worst shooting guard in the league.

 

[sactownfan]

So our backup PG has been exposed for being a backup PG? Great analysis.

Thanks! But he's STRICKLY A back up. He's being exposed for being a poor play maker, un-clutch, a poor defender and small. He can back up rondo but him playing in the key part of games is what's wrong with this team and that's my analysis

 

[sactownfan]

so you're saying that the SG position is what's wrong? Haven't we been saying this for the past three seasons?

Well to be fair Ben deserved a chance to play SG and this team overall sucked... Pretty much every position was an issue minus center.

 

[Iced Espresso]

At this point if Rondo is on the floor I'd like to see Marco on the bench. I don't think they are complimentary at all. Rondo seems to be able to build up Cousins, WCS, Ben when he breaks to the basket, and Rudy really well however.

We need more ball movement off the bench and better passing. If you space the floor with Casspi and Marco it should allow Collison some room to work and KK is a threat in the post and off the screen.

I'm going to put Marco's offensive play on the coach, but his defensive liabilities he can own.

Ben works with Rondo though, and at least he's scrappy defensively.

 

[Showtime]

Boy wouldn't it be nice to have a guy like McCollum? Oh wait...

 

[KingMilz]

Boy wouldn't it be nice to have a guy like McCollum? Oh wait...

To be fair his first couple of years in the NBA he looked way worse (could never get rhythm due to injury) than Ben and he had less potential at the time both were drafted (which now sounds ridiculous). We probably would have given him the Thomas Robinson/Carl Landy treatment and sent him elsewhere anyway.

 

[The_Jamal]

Boy wouldn't it be nice to have a guy like McCollum? Oh wait...

McCollum also got to hold the clipboard for 2 years and develop on a veteran team before he go the reigns turned over to him this season. He's also in a place where he's secure in his minutes and gets all the USG he can handle.

Don't get me wrong, he's certainly a nice player, but you can't compare the development of the two at all.

 

[Showtime]

To be fair his first couple of years in the NBA he looked way worse (could never get rhythm due to injury) than Ben and he had less potential at the time both were drafted (which now sounds ridiculous). We probably would have given him the Thomas Robinson/Carl Landy treatment and sent him elsewhere anyway.

That's what is disappointing to me. Of all the guys the Kings have left on the board: Lillard, McCollum, Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, Seth Curry, etc, none of the Kings' picks have even turned out to be serviceable starters (Ben wouldn't start elsewhere), save Cousins, Evans, and Thomas. This team cannot even develop talent, and when they do, more often than not they end up dealing them later on. I doubt any of the aforementioned players would even be half as good has Sac drafted them, since this team seems to not even be able to keep guys in the Association that they draft in lottery spots.

 

[swisshh]

Should be some question as to why no SG has had a decent season in the past three years. There's more issues than just Ben/Marco though. For one, Marco is deadly from the corner three but is not getting most of his threes from that spot.

http://on.nba.com/1MLsL9o

Look at that shot chart. Why is he bombing from straight-away angles when he's hot from the corners? Why are those the shots that he's getting?

 

[Iced Espresso]

Should be some question as to why no SG has had a decent season in the past three years. There's more issues than just Ben/Marco though. For one, Marco is deadly from the corner three but is not getting most of his threes from that spot.

http://on.nba.com/1MLsL9o

Look at that shot chart. Why is he bombing from straight-away angles when he's hot from the corners? Why are those the shots that he's getting?

Looking at last years...

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/970/marco-belinelli/shotchart/

To me it just looks like general less efficiency.

 

[Kings_of_California]

I truly believe this team is two pieces away from contending for a title.

1) A true and solid 6th man
2) A 3 & D SG

Casspi (and maybe DC) are as close as we get to a 6th man right now. Casspi is a solid rotation guy but I would rather have him playing around 18 minutes per with a higher efficiency. He's being asked to do too much right now. He's a good shooter and can grab some boards, but he's not exactly a defensive maestro.

Collison gives up a lot on the defensive end. He can be effective, but is mostly inconsistent on the offensive side.

I want to believe that Ben can be that 3 and D guy. He has the tools...he just needs to use them appropriately. He had a great stroke coming out of college, and his athleticism and length should help him on the defensive end. However, for whatever reason it just hasn't clicked...but Karl benching him every single game is not helping the matter.

 

[Kings_of_California]

If Ben can figure it out, just imagine how good we could be.

Add a key player here and there (Bazemore for instance) and imagine this lineup:

PG: Rondo/Collison/Curry
SG: McLemore/Bazemore/Bellineli
SF: Gay/Bazemore/Casspi/Acy
PF: Cousins/Casspi/Acy/Moreland
C: WCS/Koufos

Inactive: Butler, Dukan

The firepower is there with Cuz, Gay, Rondo.
The defense is there with WCS, McLemore and Bazemore as the defensive stopper we need.
The utility/role player is there with Collison, Bellineli, Casspi and Koufos.
The energy/rebounding role is still there for Acy.

I just really like Bazemore as a player. Fantastic length with great D instincts. Can hit the 3 ball etc...

On top of this, you have the veteran coaching from Caron.

I'm not going to say this is the winning formula, but we need improvements.

 

[R2D2]

Thanks! But he's STRICKLY A back up. He's being exposed for being a poor play maker, un-clutch, a poor defender and small. He can back up rondo but him playing in the key part of games is what's wrong with this team and that's my analysis

 

[KingsFanGER]

Ben and Marco are part of the problem, but Charlotte and Portland killed us with the high pick&roll.

Now look at this:

Sadly it's a highlight video, but it might be enough to notice how aggressively the perimeter D chases opposing guards through screens, how high the PF/C gets to contain and how Bradley cuts off Curry to prevent the Curry/Green pick&roll.
We will never be able to play this kind of D with Marco, but there are no excuses for Ben, Rondo and DC. This is effort - nothing more.
But it's not solely on the guards. Cuz did a poor job too, when put into the pick&roll against Portland (might be because of 2 OT and back to back game ). He even took the blame for letting the Hornets catch some momentum off those 4 Spencer Hawe's 3's in the 3rd.

We as a team have not found a way yet to defend those high pick&rolls. Opposing teams aren't forced to move the ball over 3-4 positions. It's one screen and maybe one simple pass and they have a layup or an open jumpshot.
Willie did help in that regard, when he came back from injury, but he can't defend this all by himself.
But when players like Turner, IT, Rozier, Olynyk, Sully can be taught to be at least average on D, I wonder why we struggle to mold an uber athletic guy like Ben into a decent defender.

 

[Livinthedream]

But when players like Turner, IT, Rozier, Olynyk, Sully can be taught to be at least average on D, I wonder why we struggle to mold an uber athletic guy like Ben into a decent defender.

Because we don't practice it. There is this misconception that defense is just about how hard you try. That is part of the equation. But if that were the full story, the league would have more great defenders. If it were about strictly athleticism, you'd have a ton of great defenders. You ever wonder why it's easier to find really good shooters than it is to find really good defenders?

Practice.

Every team and player practices shooting. It's something you can do at home by yourself if needed. Your team has to emphasize defense in training camp and practice to be good defenders. To compete at this level, you have to put in work. And especially with a scheme that requires communication and switching on D, you have to practice a lot together. Kings don't do that.

For WCS, defense is his special gift. It's why he's in the league. We aren't asking him to be anything else. So you can't use him as a comparison.

For our wings and guards to be better defenders, it has to be a coaching emphasis. It's never going to be with Karl. So it's not worth crying about. The only way you get a great wing defender is if the guy is a specialist like WCS. But then you lose the scoring.

Boston is a great example of a team that emphasizes defense as a team. They don't defend the pick and roll better than us on accident. They practice it.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Because we don't practice it. There is this misconception that defense is just about how hard you try. That is part of the equation. But if that were the full story, the league would have more great defenders. If it were about strictly athleticism, you'd have a ton of great defenders. You ever wonder why it's easier to find really good shooters than it is to find really good defenders?

Practice.

Every team and player practices shooting. It's something you can do at home by yourself if needed. Your team has to emphasize defense in training camp and practice to be good defenders. To compete at this level, you have to put in work. And especially with a scheme that requires communication and switching on D, you have to practice a lot together. Kings don't do that.

For WCS, defense is his special gift. It's why he's in the league. We aren't asking him to be anything else. So you can't use him as a comparison.

For our wings and guards to be better defenders, it has to be a coaching emphasis. It's never going to be with Karl. So it's not worth crying about. The only way you get a great wing defender is if the guy is a specialist like WCS. But then you lose the scoring.

Boston is a great example of a team that emphasizes defense as a team. They don't defend the pick and roll better than us on accident. They practice it.

I get your point and I would agree, that defending the pick&roll is a team effort and needs practice. But the most difficult part (at least from my own personal experience, which is obviously not on a professional level) is to defend the pick&roll from the second pass on, because the whole team needs to rotate quickly.
My concern is, that the Kings have trouble to defend the pick&roll right from the start. The opponent doesn't even need 2 or more passes to beat us. We aren't chasing guys around and manage to defend until late in the shotclock only to get beat by a brilliant offense and stellar passing.
Against the Hornets we gave Spencer Hawes 5 attempts from 3 in the 3rd off the identical play out of a high pick&roll. He made 4. And as far as I remember none of those 3's was after an extended stretch of stellar ball movement. It was a basic pick&pop play. Now any NBA player should know, that the only way Hawes is able to hurt you is by hitting open jumpshots. But we never managed to force him out of his comfort zone. All he had to do is set a screen, pop out, catch and shoot.
I'm sorry, but you don't need to practice upper echolon team defense, to stop this kind of play. You need to put in effort, close out hard and force Hawes to put the ball on the floor or at least to swing the ball to the next player. Force Spencer Hawes to make a decision with the ball.
Now if the Hornets manage to beat you from there, you can blame the lack of defensive practice and team defense.
But up until this point it's mainly effort.

Long story short: I wouldn't complain about our effort level, when the Warriors blow us out with their incredible ball movement. But I can't stand watching Spencer Hawes or Troy Daniels or Meyers Leonard getting open 3 after open 3 after one pass.
I would prefer to see Rondo, Ben and DC to sit with 6 fouls, cause they run over the screener every single time, before I put all blame on Karl.

 

[King Baller]

But I can't stand watching Spencer Hawes or Troy Daniels or Meyers Leonard getting open 3 after open 3 after one pass.
I would prefer to see Rondo, Ben and DC to sit with 6 fouls, cause they run over the screener every single time, before I put all blame on Karl.

Are all the open shooters on teams the Kings are facing the result of player effort or is it because of the defensive scheme? Perhaps the scheme does not match the players abilities?

 

[KingsFanGER]

Are all the open shooters on teams the Kings are facing the result of player effort or is it because of the defensive scheme? Perhaps the scheme does not match the players abilities?

Honestly I don't know for sure. Is our defensive scheme that special? Ok we switch a bit more than usual and don't ICE the pick&roll very often. But is it a systematic issue, when a guy like Hawes gets free that easily?
I believe there are many simple plays we get beat on, because we don't put in enough effort as a team (with Curry and most of the time Willie as the exceptions) on the defensive end.
How do you defend these pick&pop plays Charlotte ran for Hawes? Why did we give up the 3 every time?
From my point of view it's because our guards have troubles to fight through screens and Cousins doesn't like to come all the way out to the perimeter.
System or effort?