Evaluating the Cousins Trade.

Bricklayer said:
the Kings though can enjoy holding their head high as post-Barkley Philadelphia in 1992. If you can keep the tank going long enough, maybe after 5 more years of misery you can draft your own Iverson and be ready to make the playoffs by 2025.
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The Kings already drafted their own Iverson; I think they traded him for cash considerations. But, no worries: the next Larry Hughes is right over the horizon.
 
For months, Kings execs, from basketball to the business side, were in lockstep with the reality that rebooting the franchise without Cousins was the only long-term solution. Ranadive, the embattled owner, was all that stood in the way. Ranadive stepped aside on Sunday, clearing the way for the Kings to send Cousins and Omri Casspi to the Pelicans for Buddy Hield, Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway and 2017 first- and second-round picks. In dealing a top-10 talent like Cousins for a solid scoring rookie and a pair of picks, the message was unmistakable: Cousins is good, but we’re better off without him 11 hours ago– via Yahoo! Sports

The one time we freaking want Vivek to meddle, he steps aside. Very telling if this report is true.
 
This is so bad. We have a GM and MAYBE an owner who panicked when a "better offer" was offered and then pulled and took a BS offer for fear that the offers would get worse the closer the deadline got. Wow. What is going on down at Golden 1?

I just have a pit in my stomach right now. What the hell is there to look forward to with these 2 dip sticks in charge?
 
Heuge said:
What does Dave Joerger think?
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You will never know, until of course they pin the inability to win with the tattered remnants of the roster on yet another good coach. Until then I can imagine the only move will be to keep his head down preach loyalty to his guys and "you gotta compete with who you have", and just in general, to duck and wonder how big a mess he got himself into.
 
Zach Lowe's podcast today with Brian Windhorst: http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18725359
Listen around the 16min mark. Wow. Cousins was ****ing crapty to Nik Stauskas
Wow. Lowe said that Cousins basically ruined Stauskas. He said that he would constantly berate him, and EVEN tried to fight him on the plane to China. You guys remember when there was a story out there months and months ago about a rookie crying?

Here's this tweet
Adam Kaufman@AdamMKaufman
Cedric Maxwell said on @985TheSportsHub @SeanGrandePBP asked Brad Stevens if he'd like to coach DeMarcus Cousins. Stevens said no.
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From November, Zach Lowe's opinion about Brad Stevens and Cousins:
"I don't think Brad Stevens wants to touch DeMarcus Cousins with a 10-foot pole. And that carries a lot of weight there. Not only that, they just signed a center. And they think Al Horford is a center, and will play more center as pieces come and go in Boston. And so I don't know what that does to Boston's hunger to acquire a superstar big man who is going to be a locker room question mark."
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Here's a Boston Globe article: http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/c...cus-cousins/7Cgggokz7CPKgfjN2CakWM/story.html
It says that the Celtics weren't interested in Cousins. Keep in mind, this wouldn't be a Kings leak, it would be a Celtics leak. Some pieces to it:
And time and again, any mention of Cousins turned ominous, the source said. Agents for other Kings players had even reached out to teams hoping to find new homes for their clients, primarily citing the difficulties that came from playing with Cousins.

The source emphasized that Cousins was generally viewed as a good person off the court by those around him.
“But it’s his on-court demeanor, his play, his effort, that type of stuff,” the source said. “It’s just really hard when you can’t find one basketball person [to vouch for him].”
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Bricklayer said:
You will never know, until of course they pin the inability to win with the tattered remnants of the roster on yet another good coach. Until then I can imagine the only move will be to keep his head down preach loyalty to his guys and "you gotta compete with who you have", and just in general, to duck and wonder how big a mess he got himself into.
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They may not be done trading.....its like on the used car sales lot, when you've already thrown down for the car you supposedly wanted, and get talked into even more on extras and the warranty. Jeez, Vlade is incompetent as an executive.
 
Blob said:
Here's how this trade works out and the odds of it happening:
  • Buddy turns into a 25 PPG scorer and all-star
  • Boogie or Davis get hurt over last 25 games, NOP finish with 7-10 range
  • POR, DAL and DEN finish ahead of NOP
  • Kings finish in the 5-8 worst record range
  • Kings are lucky on lotto day and 76er swap rights are not exercised
  • Kings are lucky on lotto day and NOP does not get Top 3 pick
  • Kings have two lottery picks around #5 to #10 range
  • They draft a future all-star (PG) with one pick and a star with the other (SF)
The odds of all these events transpiring are about 1,000,000 to 1!!!!!!

The more likely scenario is Buddy turns into capable starter based on his impressive skill set but not star level simply because achieving NBA stardom is a rarified air. (Note: I really like Buddy so think he has a chance to be a star better than most). And the two picks the Kings retain in this years draft will amount to decent role player or wash outs. So you give away the most dominant big in the NBA for 2-3 role players.

The package Vlade accepted was same the Pelicans offered for Okafor and the 76ers rejected it. What does that tell you about Vlade's ability to maximize player value? It tells me he is an impulsive idiot being out-smarted and outclassed by GMs with 30-40 IQ points on him. It is gross negligence and fireable offense what he did and Vivek should have put the breaks on this stupidity like he did previously.

Vlade couldn't get a 2019 draft pick out of Pelicans?!? That he couldn't get the 2017 pick unprotected?!?! That he couldn't exert patience and shrewdness and wait until Thursday and play hardball for competing suitors to sweeten the pot to outbid one another (Pelicans, Detroit, Suns)? This guy is out of his element and clueless buffoon. He's an epic fail even if Buddy and the draft picks go on to have success. Just when you thought it could get NO worse than Pete D'Allesandro, Vlade outdid that clown and cemented his legacy as a total laughingstock.

The depressing notion in all of this is the Kings have NO proven starters and NO proven stars especially since I expect Collison and Koufos to be gone Thursday. We traded a superstar without getting an established building block in return. That's a crime and a nightmare scenario and a slap in the face to all Kings fans.
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This team's ceiling with Cousins was the 8th seed. Unless we got lucky in the draft and found someone that could quickly become an all star, or somehow put together a package for an all star, or somehow persuade a free agency all star to join us, then this team was going nowhere. I'm a big Cousins fan, but this team's ceiling was maybe .500 and the 8th seed at best. AT BEST. After this season Cousins had one year left. What was Vlade going to do, extend Cousins and continue to remain one of those awkward borderline play off but nowhere near a contender teams?

I suppose that appeals to some people if it meant keeping Cousins, but we were never going to compete for a championship unless we found a running mate for Cousins, and sadly I don't think that was ever going to happen. Cousins was never going to get a ring with us. The time came to move on and Vlade made the right decision to move on. Maybe we don't get better from this. Maybe Vlade does a poor job rebuilding post-Cousins and we end up needing another rebuild a few years from now under another general manager. If that happens, well, so be it. But keeping Cousins was not going to lead anywhere, no matter how much we try to look into the "what if" scenarios of getting Cousins that running mate.

As for the deal, perhaps we could have got a better one. But the thing to bear in mind is that if Vlade plays hardball and the other teams sit back and don't panic and give up more than they should, then Vlade is going to be left with Cousins on his hands post trade deadline. We can all see that this team is no more than an eighth seed team this year, and to be honest, I think the Nuggets would have been a better bet to make the play offs than we would have been with Cousins. Next year this team was not going to magically become a contender unless we managed to acquire a star through free agency or a trade. Get real, we aren't getting a star in free agency, and we don't have the assets to get one in a trade. That means we are likely to be in a similar position to this season, and that's working on the basis we can stay ahead of the young ascending teams in the west which is no guarantee. Unfortunately, Vlade had to make a move before the trade deadline because if he waited for the summer there is no guarantee he would get any better a deal then than he would now. Especially since Cousins would be entering into a contract year. Those type of deals don't tend to end up getting teams a boatload of draft picks or young talent. Generally you get a couple of picks and a some fringe talent. In this deal we got a couple of talented players and a solid veteran, maybe they can be part of the next team post-Cousins. We also got a couple of draft picks, maybe we get lucky.

In the end, Vlade was in a tough position. The team was not trending upwards to contender status with Cousins, so he had to make a trade. Any trade was always going to look one sided to the other team that was getting Cousins because they were getting an all star center and we would be getting fringe talent and picks. For me, I think Vlade did the right thing trading Cousins. Hopefully this trade works out for us. If it doesn't, we'll end up rebuilding again in a few seasons time with a new GM - which is the same result of what would have been had we kept Cousins and remained a non-play off team, since he would have been unhappy and demanded a trade away, at which point we would have got fringe talent and picks. Thankfully the Cousins saga is over and we can all move on. It's a shame because Cousins was a damn good player and one of my favorite Kings. That said, I am somewhat glad it is all over and we can now start speculating about what our next era is going to look like.
 
Trueblood said:
The difference is that if they view Ball as a character guy, they will have no problem signing him to a huge problem whereas they finally came to the realization about Cousins that a lot of have for some time. He's tough to deal with.
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Your missing the point. They don't have the money.
 
Mike said:
.......
In this deal we got a couple of talented players and a solid veteran, maybe they can be part of the next team post-Cousins. We also got a couple of draft picks, maybe we get lucky.

In the end, Vlade was in a tough position. The team was not trending upwards to contender status with Cousins, so he had to make a trade. Any trade was always going to look one sided to the other team that was getting Cousins because they were getting an all star center and we would be getting fringe talent and picks. For me, I think Vlade did the right thing trading Cousins. Hopefully this trade works out for us. If it doesn't, we'll end up rebuilding again in a few seasons time with a new GM - which is the same result of what would have been had we kept Cousins and remained a non-play off team, since he would have been unhappy and demanded a trade away, at which point we would have got fringe talent and picks. Thankfully the Cousins saga is over and we can all move on. It's a shame because Cousins was a damn good player and one of my favorite Kings. That said, I am somewhat glad it is all over and we can now start speculating about what our next era is going to look like.
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Who's the solid veteran?
 
fansinceday1 said:
Vlade, "we had a better deal 2 days ago than what we got now".

Thats why he thought the closer we got to the deadline the worse the deals would get.
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The worse negotiators ever in Vlade & Vivek. They are the type that will buy a car at full retail because they believe it when the salesman told them that there is only a $200 profit per car for the dealership.

People will always bluff, we had 4 more days. That "better deal" that left would come back by tues/wed and probably with even sweeter terms if Vlade knew how to squeeze them and play this game. Just because someone says "this is my final offer" doesn't always mean it is. I guess Vlade assumed gee "I'm good at talking to the guys, I must be able to negotiate deals!".
 
Peter_Gibbons said:
He holds the most shares of any individual owner, but he doesn't own 51% or more. Anyone with the exact numbers, chime in.
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Doesn't holding the most shares make you majority owner regardless of simple-majority percentage? If this is how I understand it from another team structure that I know of (the Grizzlies), the total team ownership is highly leveraged. Something like the team is valued at $500 million dollars but Vivek owns 50 million dollars worth, and the next owner owns 25 million and so on.....
 
Mike said:
This team's ceiling with Cousins was the 8th seed. Unless we got lucky in the draft and found someone that could quickly become an all star, or somehow put together a package for an all star, or somehow persuade a free agency all star to join us, then this team was going nowhere. I'm a big Cousins fan, but this team's ceiling was maybe .500 and the 8th seed at best. AT BEST. After this season Cousins had one year left. What was Vlade going to do, extend Cousins and continue to remain one of those awkward borderline play off but nowhere near a contender teams?

I suppose that appeals to some people if it meant keeping Cousins, but we were never going to compete for a championship unless we found a running mate for Cousins, and sadly I don't think that was ever going to happen. Cousins was never going to get a ring with us. The time came to move on and Vlade made the right decision to move on. Maybe we don't get better from this. Maybe Vlade does a poor job rebuilding post-Cousins and we end up needing another rebuild a few years from now under another general manager. If that happens, well, so be it. But keeping Cousins was not going to lead anywhere, no matter how much we try to look into the "what if" scenarios of getting Cousins that running mate.

As for the deal, perhaps we could have got a better one. But the thing to bear in mind is that if Vlade plays hardball and the other teams sit back and don't panic and give up more than they should, then Vlade is going to be left with Cousins on his hands post trade deadline. We can all see that this team is no more than an eighth seed team this year, and to be honest, I think the Nuggets would have been a better bet to make the play offs than we would have been with Cousins. Next year this team was not going to magically become a contender unless we managed to acquire a star through free agency or a trade. Get real, we aren't getting a star in free agency, and we don't have the assets to get one in a trade. That means we are likely to be in a similar position to this season, and that's working on the basis we can stay ahead of the young ascending teams in the west which is no guarantee. Unfortunately, Vlade had to make a move before the trade deadline because if he waited for the summer there is no guarantee he would get any better a deal then than he would now. Especially since Cousins would be entering into a contract year. Those type of deals don't tend to end up getting teams a boatload of draft picks or young talent. Generally you get a couple of picks and a some fringe talent. In this deal we got a couple of talented players and a solid veteran, maybe they can be part of the next team post-Cousins. We also got a couple of draft picks, maybe we get lucky.

In the end, Vlade was in a tough position. The team was not trending upwards to contender status with Cousins, so he had to make a trade. Any trade was always going to look one sided to the other team that was getting Cousins because they were getting an all star center and we would be getting fringe talent and picks. For me, I think Vlade did the right thing trading Cousins. Hopefully this trade works out for us. If it doesn't, we'll end up rebuilding again in a few seasons time with a new GM - which is the same result of what would have been had we kept Cousins and remained a non-play off team, since he would have been unhappy and demanded a trade away, at which point we would have got fringe talent and picks. Thankfully the Cousins saga is over and we can all move on. It's a shame because Cousins was a damn good player and one of my favorite Kings. That said, I am somewhat glad it is all over and we can now start speculating about what our next era is going to look like.
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First of all it's Vlade responsibility, that the team couldn't get over maybe contending for the 8th (yes he didn't trade IT or Tyreke, but he had plenty of time to change our course). He decided to trade with Philly. He decided to sign Rondo and Bellinelli. He signed the FA's this year and he drafted our young guys. It's his doing and his blatant incompetence, that got us here. Not DMC's responsibility, who did his absolute best to win games. To allow Vlade to weasel out of his own mess with some lame excuses about culture would be beyond ridiculous. There has to be absolutely no faith in his decisions going forward by any sane Kings fan.
I agree with some of what you wrote, but this won't change that it was Vlade calling the shots and it won't change, that we rebuild with Vlade as the GM. Vlade was in the position to trade the best big man in the league with more than 1 year left on his contract. He ended up with a package the Pelicans were willing to give for Okafor+Hield. There just is no excuse for such a bad trade.
SO excuse me, but I won't just look forward to watching the young guys play. Kings fans should demand Vlade to be fired immediately or should boo the crap out of Vivek and him during the rest of the season.
Heck the Magic look like a competent franchise next to us.
 
KingsFanGER said:
It's all about the culture change guys.
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Hi Guys, long time...

Just wanted to say, the culture the Kings are going for is this: We'll quit on talented players before they have a chance to develop (Whiteside, Thomas; even Jimmer dropped 73 yesterday), and we'll show no loyalty to established players who publicly state they want to be Kings for life (Cousins). Not only that, we'll trash them as we push them out the door, and to really stick it to the fans, we'll acknowledge that we didn't even take the best offer for probably the best center in the league. We know this is the closest we've come to a playoff appearance in over a decade, so it's time to kill any hope that our fans might have. Plus, we have a protected pick that we need to, you know, protect, so we're going to tank the rest of this season and get rid of everyone else that can actually play before the deadline. And don't worry, once Cauley-Stein starts looking good, we'll get rid of him as well.

I haven't been around in years, but I had to say my piece on this. I don't know what the Kings are doing, but they won't be good again for a long time. At least they have a new arena though!

SMH
 
chief bromden said:
Vlade got a little crossed up with his pronouns in that press conference. Sometimes 'we,' sometimes 'I.'

If he did indeed have full control over this deal, it shows a lot about Vlade's inability to negotiate with tact and patience. Vlade, you still had 96 hours man. Sigh.
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Here's my view on that. I don't think he did. If the Pelicans didn't get the OK on a Cuz deal I bet you they turned right to Philly and gave the same package up for Okafor.
 
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