Evaluating the Cousins Trade.
- Thread starter kingdivac
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I've been watching the Heat recently. They play a fair amount of younger players alongside some proven players in Dragic and Whiteside. They have managed to retain their culture even with this rebuild they are undertaking. In some ways they have been better to watch this year than last year with their veterans. If our young talent get a chance to play big minutes, and in turn this team tries to build a competitive culture, it could be an interesting end to the season and going forwards. But it does come down to this team developing a positive and competitive culture, which to date, they haven't really done.
Could Vlade have got a better deal? Perhaps, and if this doesn't work out he'll get fired. Heck, he could still get fired if Vivek wants to go in another direction when the season ends. But I'm willing to give Vlade a chance with an almost blank slate because now it's not about trying to make it work with Cousins, but now it is a full blown rebuild and perhaps he gets it right. If not, well, change will happen soon enough.
The Magic have done a bad job/have been unlucky during their rebuild. They haven't got a star. They have some decent talent but no one special enough to get them to that next level. They got Ibaka and it failed, now they've traded him and will likely try to retool this summer. Unless they get lucky in free agency and the draft, they could be heading back to the start of another rebuild.
Could Vlade have got a better deal? Perhaps, and if this doesn't work out he'll get fired. Heck, he could still get fired if Vivek wants to go in another direction when the season ends. But I'm willing to give Vlade a chance with an almost blank slate because now it's not about trying to make it work with Cousins, but now it is a full blown rebuild and perhaps he gets it right. If not, well, change will happen soon enough.
The Magic have done a bad job/have been unlucky during their rebuild. They haven't got a star. They have some decent talent but no one special enough to get them to that next level. They got Ibaka and it failed, now they've traded him and will likely try to retool this summer. Unless they get lucky in free agency and the draft, they could be heading back to the start of another rebuild.
That may be true, but there were other teams interested in dealing for Cousins. I will take Vlade's trade history as an indication that his trade negotiation skills are pretty subpar and that he did, in fact, have other options that either hadn't materialized, could have been revisited, or put on hold. This looks like a panic move where the panic was completely fabricated from within.
The way I understand that trade we made with the 76ers is that they have the option to swap picks with us. Unless we finish with a worse win-loss record than them and get a higher pick via the lottery, or we get lucky in the lottery and end up above them, then in all likelihood we wont be swapping picks with them.
If we tank, I don't see the Nets, Suns, Lakers or Magic finishing with better win-loss records than us. So we'll probably be competing for that fifth spot with the 76ers. We just have to hope we don't end up with them getting the 10th pick and we get a top five pick, at that point it would be annoying, but that's the lottery for you. We could easily end up finishing outside the top ten and sending our pick to Chicago.
I have let the trade sink in. Heck, I've thought about what we could have done had we kept Cousins, but the reality is the best case scenario is eighth seed and getting swept, then another mediocre year and so on. The team was going nowhere fast. For me, blowing it up and starting over is probably the right move. I could be wrong. But we'll see what happens from here on out and where this team goes.
If we tank, I don't see the Nets, Suns, Lakers or Magic finishing with better win-loss records than us. So we'll probably be competing for that fifth spot with the 76ers. We just have to hope we don't end up with them getting the 10th pick and we get a top five pick, at that point it would be annoying, but that's the lottery for you. We could easily end up finishing outside the top ten and sending our pick to Chicago.
I have let the trade sink in. Heck, I've thought about what we could have done had we kept Cousins, but the reality is the best case scenario is eighth seed and getting swept, then another mediocre year and so on. The team was going nowhere fast. For me, blowing it up and starting over is probably the right move. I could be wrong. But we'll see what happens from here on out and where this team goes.
We are not the Heat. It's that simple. The Heat are running a proven and great basketball program for years and years. They have turned around almost hopeless basketball careers and found young guys able to contribute with late draft picks or even without draft picks. The Heat would have never ever even entertained the Pelicans offer for a player like DMC. They would have told the Pel's GM to go **** himself.
We on the other hand are a classless dumpster fire with an incompetent wannabe GM at the head. There is no way you can compare our future outlook to what the Heat did or are doing right now.
We on the other hand are a classless dumpster fire with an incompetent wannabe GM at the head. There is no way you can compare our future outlook to what the Heat did or are doing right now.
Kings will probably finish with a higher pick than the 76ers. This team is one of the worst in NBA right now. Expect more trades in the coming days that will solidify them as one of the worst in NBA history. Our best player is a 23 year old rookie who hasn't set the world on fire. I wouldn't be surprised if this team wins <5 games the rest of the year. They are that bad. Blowing this team up, I am content with because they aren't that good to begin with, but don't do it impulsively while minimizing the return you get. You got pennies on the dollar for your most talented asset. Unfathomable.
Obviously I would have preferred had we got a better deal, but the deal is what it is. Cousins has a certain reputation and that can be off putting for teams. He's not a Steph Curry type guy, he's a hothead and can cause issues on court and off court. Some teams probably didn't want to take that risk, or wouldn't give up significant assets to take that risk. We might think he's worth multiple first round picks and high calibre young talent, but he's got a year or so left on his deal and has a reputation, that likely hit his value. Im willing to admit Vlade probably didn't do a great job negotiating but Cousins value was unlikely to be a boatload of picks and talent due to his contract and reputation.
I'm a Cousins fan. I realise he's in his prime years. But where was this team going with him? Nowhere. We don't have the assets to trade for a star. We aren't likely to land one in free agency. So unless we tank and get lucky on an instant impact player in the draft, or land some solid talent in free agency, we aren't really going to be anything more than an eighth seed that gets swept. I suppose that's appealing to some people, but generally teams like that get blown up by front offices because that's the position no team wants to be in: not good enough to compete for a championships, but not bad enough to get difference making players in the draft.
In a sense we did get robbed, but perhaps this deal turns out positively if the rebuild goes well. I'm trying to be optimistic here rather than be negative about the post-Cousins era. I could be negative and criticise the players we've got, the picks, and so on. But I'd rather take a wait and see approach.
I'm a Cousins fan. I realise he's in his prime years. But where was this team going with him? Nowhere. We don't have the assets to trade for a star. We aren't likely to land one in free agency. So unless we tank and get lucky on an instant impact player in the draft, or land some solid talent in free agency, we aren't really going to be anything more than an eighth seed that gets swept. I suppose that's appealing to some people, but generally teams like that get blown up by front offices because that's the position no team wants to be in: not good enough to compete for a championships, but not bad enough to get difference making players in the draft.
In a sense we did get robbed, but perhaps this deal turns out positively if the rebuild goes well. I'm trying to be optimistic here rather than be negative about the post-Cousins era. I could be negative and criticise the players we've got, the picks, and so on. But I'd rather take a wait and see approach.
I'm not saying we are in the same type of position as the Heats. We aren't. I was simply praising their aptitude in being able to maintain their culture during a rebuild and getting the most out of young talent. If we can take a page out of their book - which is what any team does when rebuilding because you try to replicate what successful teams do - then we'll be heading in the right direction. That's what I meant. We need to create a positive and competitive culture. If we don't, we'll fail again in the post Cousins era.
As for the trade, sure the Heat would have told the Pelicans to go away, but Vlade took a deal he felt was right. We as fans expected more, fine, but perhaps the reality is that front offices around the league don't put Cousins value that high. They might rate him as a great center, but his personality and reputation can be off putting. He's a marmite guy. Most of our fans, myself included, loved Cousins. Others didn't. That can hurt a player's value outside his current team no matter how good a player they might be.
As for the trade, sure the Heat would have told the Pelicans to go away, but Vlade took a deal he felt was right. We as fans expected more, fine, but perhaps the reality is that front offices around the league don't put Cousins value that high. They might rate him as a great center, but his personality and reputation can be off putting. He's a marmite guy. Most of our fans, myself included, loved Cousins. Others didn't. That can hurt a player's value outside his current team no matter how good a player they might be.
K
This is true as well, who is advising these fools:
For Kings fans upset about the team’s return for Cousins, the admission will likely just be another signal that the franchise mishandled the trade process. It’s also not exactly a vote of confidence for Buddy Hield and the other new Kings, who are essentially being told that they weren’t the club’s first choice.
For Kings fans upset about the team’s return for Cousins, the admission will likely just be another signal that the franchise mishandled the trade process. It’s also not exactly a vote of confidence for Buddy Hield and the other new Kings, who are essentially being told that they weren’t the club’s first choice.
Cousins personality.........it's always this never ending BS cycle. Look I'm literally fuming right now, so please grant me some leeway with my words. This Cousins is a cancer narrative is the dumbest thing I ever witnessed during my 20+ years of being an NBA fan. Cousins only fault was/is, that he is loose with his words. It's words...nothing else. Not one teammate of him said anything bad about him in public. In fact he still is close with IT and is regulary chatting lightheartedly with all of his ex teammates after games. You don't think GM's would give up the farm for Draymond Green? Because I do. But they want no part of DMC? You got to be kidding....
But even if they want DMC, GM's won't give up anything of value, when they know they are dealing with an amateur. That's what happended. This trade says nothing about DMC's value. It says alot about how Vlade is perchieved all around the league, about his negotiating skills and about what value other GM's were willing to GIVE HIM for DMC.
And this is the guy you hope to learn from other successful organisations how to rebuild? A guy not even capable of doing a semi decent trade for one of the leagues best players in his prime? A guy not even having the class and honesty to call the cornerstone of this franchise he just trade, who has been through a lot and still stayed loyal.
Let me say this: I respect you dearly for your seemingly never ending optimism.
But even if they want DMC, GM's won't give up anything of value, when they know they are dealing with an amateur. That's what happended. This trade says nothing about DMC's value. It says alot about how Vlade is perchieved all around the league, about his negotiating skills and about what value other GM's were willing to GIVE HIM for DMC.
And this is the guy you hope to learn from other successful organisations how to rebuild? A guy not even capable of doing a semi decent trade for one of the leagues best players in his prime? A guy not even having the class and honesty to call the cornerstone of this franchise he just trade, who has been through a lot and still stayed loyal.
Let me say this: I respect you dearly for your seemingly never ending optimism.
Yet, Vlade apparently held a face to face meeting with Boogie and his agents to tell him in person that he is going nowhere and they are working on offering him the max $209 million deal. Why would you go that far if you were trying to trade him all along? These are the seemingly minor details that other players and agents will remember and make the city even more undesirable to play for.
Something tells me if we keep the majority of the vets like Collison and Lawson, this season at least, will play out about the same if we had kept Cousins, Joerger will get these guys playing hard. Have to see what the team looks like on Thursday though. As of now roster is
Collison/Lawson
Mclemore/Temple/Hield/Galloway
Afflalo/Tyreke/Malachi
Tolliver/Skal
WCS/Koufos/Papa
Collison/Lawson
Mclemore/Temple/Hield/Galloway
Afflalo/Tyreke/Malachi
Tolliver/Skal
WCS/Koufos/Papa
The Kings went from retaining Cousins and having stability to blowing it all up in a week or two. There was no major event that people know of that would cause this. The team was actually improving under Cousins/Joerger while Vlade claims he saw no future with Cousins.
So the questions that needs to be asked is what changed in the past week or two to cause all of this? Why the panic and rush into this trade?
So the questions that needs to be asked is what changed in the past week or two to cause all of this? Why the panic and rush into this trade?
