ESPN says Kings have decided to KEEP George Karl

[bajaden]

It's so obvious yet so many either don't see it or don't want to see it. I think it comes down to Cousin hatred. If they acknowledge the obvious then Cousins would be the dominating player he really is and it would discredit some people here.

You know, I'm so tired of this nonsense. If someone is critical of Cousins, it's because he or she hates Cousins? Well, Cousins is partially the blame for what's happening right now, and he needs to bear some of that responsibility. If someone points that out, it doesn't make them a hater. You think you know more about basketball than I do? You think you can see things that I can't see. How many times do you watch the same game twice or three times trying to figure out what the hell is going wrong. I do! How many times in a game is Cuz late getting back on defense because he's arguing with the ref's. If your the leader of the team, that's not the example you should be setting.

I love Cousins, but if he's at fault, then I'm going to say so. If my son or daughter screws up I'm going to let them know. That doesn't mean I hate them, actually it's because I want them to succeed. I realize that there are some that want Cousins gone, and I understand why. I don't necessarily agree with getting rid of him, but I understand where they're coming from. They're sick and tired of his constant arguing and scowling. Of late he appears to have quit giving his best effort, and that's unacceptable. If you believe that the end justifies the means, then I understand why you would have no issues with Cousins. Same goes with Karl, who shares a huge amount of the fault.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm actually ok with this. A big part of this organization's problems has been the lack of stability. I feel that Vlade should give Karl at least until the end of the year. Demarcus Cousins on the other hand needs to step up and stop making excuses.

Indeed, he's got to step up beyond 27pts 11rebs, numbers only reached by about 5 centers in history. I demand at least 30-15 from that damn excusemaker! If he ain't the GOAT, he ain't trying!

 

[randymoss1881]

Jillian Adge‏@JillAdge
Karl talked to Lowe last week and said Kings beat the Thunder because Rudy Gay shut down Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant didn't play that game...

That in itself is a fire able offense. Pitiful, probably DMC fault though

 

[IfAt1st]

Oh, stop that, Brick -
you know damn well Demarcus has been lazing and not trying very hard the past 2 weeks.
A basketball player's current performance isn't solely the average points and rebounds they put up over a season.

Don't paint yourself into an exaggerated (and hard to justify) corner.

Demarcus IS partially responsible for the way this team has crap the court at least 15 times this season.
They DI contribute to missing the playoffs this season - they ****ed around for countless games, thought they were better than they were, thought they didn't have to work hard to win in this league.

 

[jcwkings]

Indeed, he's got to step up beyond 27pts 11rebs, numbers only reached by about 5 centers in history. I demand at least 30-15 from that damn excusemaker! If he ain't the GOAT, he ain't trying!

Stop posting stupid empty stats!!! Its energy and effort, giving a crap out there that we are complaining about. When your as talented as he is and have as high a usage rate, it would shock me more if he doesn't get 25 pts a night even when he decides to sleepwalk through games(which he has been doing far too often this season, and especially in this terrible stretch here). Really sick and tired of Cousins supporters just posting 27 and 12 anytime anyone remotely criticizes him. YOU CAN'T PUT STATISTICS ON PROFESSIONALISM!

 

[Sac.1989]

i dont really know what to say here.

Vlade has balls making this decision, its about time someone grew a pair and made a ballsy decision. That being said, im not sure its the right one given that Karl has lost the locker room and things can get very toxic here.

This is Vlade's decision and he needs to be more hands on and involved now.

This move puts us at a greater risk of losing Cousins sooner then if we hired an interim coach and empahsised the same points of defence and defensive effort. If cousins disengages it will all end very badly for us all.

 

[peacelate]

If Cousins wants to be a HOF, he can't continually let himself be his worst enemy. The true great players in the league would never let themselves be their biggest roadbloack.

 

[celtics33]

That's part of it, maybe.

Rondo likes the freedom he gets. Rondo has said that coach (i.e.e freedom) would be one of the factors in his FA decisions this summer. Rondo as recentyl as a few days ago declined to point fingers at George's schemes.

Then again Rondo mentioned the optional shootarounds...unless maybe that was aimed at a lack of dedication from the players? And now there is even pushback about whether the 3 or 4 players showing up was accurate.

Then you have Cuz, who various people like to tag with a variety of inaccurate labels, few less accurate than coach killer. In his entire time in Sacramento you know how many coaches Cousins has asked us to fire, so far as we know? None. Zero. Paul Westphal absolutely hated him and more or less quit over it. Fired himself. Smart and Cuz clashed, but Smart's fate was sealed by the change in ownership, he was fired before we even officially decided to keep Cuz. Cuz in no way shape or form wanted to lose Malone. And Cuz even advocated keeping Ty Corbin because he didn't think he was being treated fairly. When Karl tried to backstab him this summer, Cuz's response was to ask for a trade behind the scenes, not to ask for Karl to be fired.

Then early int he season after Cuz blew up at him the stories went (and these stories are form some of the same sources that got this Karl being fired thing wrong, so grain of salt), but still, the stories went that Vlade may even have asked Cuz and Cuz said don't fire him.

Now I don't have a great way to explain the last two games if Cuz didn't think Karl was being fired unless it is the normal Cuz shutting down when it all goes to poopoo thing. Because I think Cuz desperately wants to have stability and a long term coach. And maybe his poopoo play was him hearing and anticipating the end rather than him trying to cause it.

And so again, Vivek could have meddled for money or ideology, Vlade could have balked because of stability and a certain over-respect for old guys he knows, or quite possibly the lead players might still, in spite of everything, prefer to keep waddling along under old George rather than be cast into uncertainty again. Or some combination of the above.

This is the most sober and realistic comment on the matter in the entire forum. Bricklayer has the intelligence to use "would" and "might" where many other posters hint absolute facts based on undocumented whispers, rumors and pose as insiders with connections.
I have the highest sympathy for the disappointment you are currently going through as Kings' fans (I have really developed some genuine feeling for this franchise, though still being a true Celt) but what good can possibly come from this continuous flow of "someone's told me that", just to score some "likes" on the forum?

 

[Bricklayer]

Stop posting stupid empty stats!!! Its energy and effort, giving a crap out there that we are complaining about. When your as talented as he is and have as high a usage rate, it would shock me more if he doesn't get 25 pts a night even when he decides to sleepwalk through games(which he has been doing far too often this season, and especially in this terrible stretch here). Really sick and tired of Cousins supporters just posting 27 and 12 anytime anyone remotely criticizes him. YOU CAN'T PUT STATISTICS ON PROFESSIONALISM!

And I'm really tired of the blatant IRRATIONALISM of Boogie bashers. Its sincerely offensive in its stupidity.

If DeMarcus Cousins was jogging downcourt kicking puppies and stealing candy from babies, but in the process was putting up 27pts 11rebs and having a STAGGERING impact on our +/-, the greatest impact btw of any Kings star since those stats started being recorded in 2000 -- Webber topped out at +3.3, Kevin at +3.7, Bibby at +2.5, Peja +5.8, Tyreke +1.1, while Cousins is at +10.7 after being at +9.5 last year -- he would STILL be providing you will absolutely enormous positive impact.

Every single little whiny complaint about Cousins' own whining, and yes the irony is thick, comes from within the numbers. Meaning, that DESPITE every single little whiny complaint, despite every single complaint about oh he didn't defend this play, or oh, he didn't get back, or how he gave a mean scowl that made me wanna cry or whatever the hell the most recent B.S. is, he puts up completely dominant numbers WHILE DOING ALL OF THAT. All of the fans whining about oh DeMarcus doesn't do that or doesn't do this, or he is so frowny faced or whatever else we have, doesn't take away from the raw domination on the court. This isn't a oh, he scored 30 on the night, but then he frowned so he only finished with 22. No, He scored 30 while frowning, complaining and all the rest, and his 30 counts just as much as the 30 from the nicest friendliest most technicolor unicorn leotard wearing ***** of this fanbase's wet dreams.

27 and 11 is 27 and 11. The only time you can even start to play 27 and 11 isn't 27 and 11 games is when the 27 and 11 doesn't make an impact on the +/- ala a Blake Griffin. When the 27 and 11 is combined with a superstar +/- as well, then 27 and 11 is 27 and 11 and the people whining about it are the ones being irrational and prejudiced, not the other way around.

 

[peacelate]

Cousins put up 27 and 11, but he is capable of putting up better numbers.

Are you okay with this?

 

[Bricklayer]

YOU CAN'T PUT STATISTICS ON PROFESSIONALISM!

Oh and yes you can. Professionalism is irrelevant. Results are relevant.

I once interviewed at a DC law firm named Dickstein Shapiro and walked in next to a guy in riding leathers carrying a bike helmet under his arm. He went to a corner office while I turned off for my scheduled interview. Turns out it was his office, because he was a 7 figure rainmaker for the firm and could do whatever the hell he wanted. The guy I interviewed with, who I really hit it off with (have always wondered if I should have taken the offer) wore alligator skin crapkickers and had a handlebar mustache. Top oil & gas partner, and a hoot of a guy.

Professionalism is a path to greatness. its highly advisable when people don't know anything about you. But when you are great you are great, and you can let's see, get accused of rape, eat yourself over 350lbs, sleep with 10,000 women, spit on kids and get in bar fights, punch teammates, develop gambling problems, pee on casino floors and all the rest, and you will be still be great. And you can certainly show no bigger issue than a tendency to be over emotional and have a persecution complex on court while being a bleeping model citizen off of it.

 

[beb0p]

I am absolutely on board with this. We don't accomplish anything by firing Karl now. No, Karl is not without blame but we've been down that road before - a mid-season coaching change sucks the life out of the team. There is a new system, new rotation, the players are lost on the floor, and they don't respect the lame duck coach. The team goes on an extended losing streak, and ended up tanking the last month of the season for a higher draft pick. I have lived through almost a decade of that crap and I am tired of it.

Let's give Karl more time and see if he can turn around the ship. It's the least-bad options we have. If the Kings get rid of him they're basically throwing in the towel for this season. I know some are hoping for a new coach to light a fire and guide this team to some miracle finish; but history tells us this never happens, not with this team. Is Karl the right coach going forward? I honestly don't know. Maybe Corliss or Nancy Liberman would take this team to the next level. Who know? But at this point in time, Karl is a proven commodity who is not terrible. I think he's our best option, and that is not a ringing endorsement.

Maybe this team goes on another losing streak, maybe we lose to Philly by 30 points; yes things can go from bad to worse. The Kings can always fire Karl later. And yes, I fully grasp that having Karl at the reign is going to be a roller coaster. But sometimes patience is needed and I think this is one of those times.
.

 

[Bricklayer]

Cousins put up 27 and 11, but he is capable of putting up better numbers.

Are you okay with this?

Of course I'm ok with it. that's "my girlfriend is a supermodel, but if she would get her teeth done she'd be the most beautiful woman in the world" stuff.

here's the total list of everybody who has EVER put up 27-11 in a season:

Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Elgin Baylor
Walt Bellamy
Spencer Haywood
Elvin Hayes
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Bob McAdoo
George Mikan
Charles Barkley
Shaquille O'Neal
Bob Petit
Hakeem Olajuwon
Oscar Robertson
Chris Webber
DeMarcus Cousins* pending

Every single one of those players is or will be in the HOF.

In the past 35 years, since paces got more reasonable, the list becomes:

Shaq x6
Mailman x5
Moses x2
Barkley x1
Hakeem x1
Webber x1
Cousins x1* pending

so five of the Top 20 players of all time, and then our two best players in Sacto history


So maybe, just maybe, asking Cousins to eclipse Shaq? Play like a Top 5 all time guy? this is our demand so we can win? Maybe just maybe that's all a tad much to ask. And maybe just maybe it might be easier to concentrate on getting just an average NBA crew behind him and try to improve that way rather than telling our guy with the HOF statline that hey loser, Shaq had several better years! You suck!

 

[peacelate]

All Star players can inflate their numbers on bad teams.

(See Kevin Love)

 

[k_dubb90]

Stop posting stupid empty stats!!! Its energy and effort, giving a crap out there that we are complaining about. When your as talented as he is and have as high a usage rate, it would shock me more if he doesn't get 25 pts a night even when he decides to sleepwalk through games(which he has been doing far too often this season, and especially in this terrible stretch here). Really sick and tired of Cousins supporters just posting 27 and 12 anytime anyone remotely criticizes him. YOU CAN'T PUT STATISTICS ON PROFESSIONALISM!

Hold on so its boogies fault we catch all these Ls becuase threes are being drained left and right? It's boogies fault we give up huge leads when he's resting on the bench? It's his fault that Avery Bradley dropped 25 on us in Boston? Troy Daniels had a career night?

 

[Bricklayer]

All Star players can inflate their numbers on bad teams.

(See Kevin Love)

uh huh.

As I just showed above, never actually happened a single time in the 70 year history of the league, but probably that's it.

And Kevin Love's numbers are closer to being "deflated" by LeBron's presence than anything else. Lebron would probably turn Mailman into a 15-10 roleplayer too, doesn't mean Mailman wasn't an all time stud of his own.

 

[Dbeltz24]

DMC is also shooting 44.5% from the field, his worst percentage since his rookie years. He's also taking 20 shots to get 26.8 points a game.

 

[sdballer]

DMC is also shooting 44.5% from the field, his worst percentage since his rookie years. He's also taking 20 shots to get 26.8 points a game.

He also has a coach playing him like a guard

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh, stop that, Brick -
you know damn well Demarcus has been lazing and not trying very hard the past 2 weeks.
A basketball player's current performance isn't solely the average points and rebounds they put up over a season.

Don't paint yourself into an exaggerated (and hard to justify) corner.

Demarcus IS partially responsible for the way this team has poopoo the court at least 15 times this season.
They DI contribute to missing the playoffs this season - they ****ed around for countless games, thought they were better than they were, thought they didn't have to work hard to win in this league.

No, first of all, effort tanked the last 2 games. Multiple injuries slowing him before that.

Secondly, AGAIN, people have problems staying in logic lanes. If DeMarcus has been tanking for two weeks, and yet his overall num,bers are STILL 27-11 and a +10.7, then that means they were even more enormous before that. And all of those enormous games count too.

Put another way, if a guy gives you 27-11 by averaging 37-16 for half the games and 17-6 for the other half of the games, and Player B comes along and plods along at a standard 27-11 every single night, you should win about the same number of games unless Player A's 37-16 nights are overkill. but we know very well those nights are not overkill with Cousins. In order to win Cousins has to average 29.6pts 12.5rebs a night for us. Hell, if just chipped in a standard 27-11 every night we might be worse than Phily and unable to beat anybody.

All those numbers are ridiculous anyway. Its basketball irrelevant to the point of ignorant to be talking about our offense. Cousins' production is spectacular by any standard except ignorant fan standard. Its the DEFENSE that has done us in around here since you could still get your desktop computer with 3.5" floppy drives.

 

[Bricklayer]

DMC is also shooting 44.5% from the field, his worst percentage since his rookie years. He's also taking 20 shots to get 26.8 points a game.

Yes, very simple explanation for that is how his coach is playing him. Not magic. And not Boogie's call. The offense puts you at the 3pt line as a 270lb center...well if you think Patrick Ewing or Shaq would be doing better with that garbage than Cuz does I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[sdballer]

Yes, very simple explanation for that is how his coach is paying him. Not magic. And not Boogie's call. The offense puts you at the 3pt line as a 270lb center...well if you think Patrick Ewing or Shaq would be doing better with that garbage than Cuz does I've got a bridge to sell you.

It's an fun exercise. Take any of the best centers from the last 15 years and swap them with cuz. With the same teammates, coaches and system how much better do the critics think the Kings would be?

 

[jcwkings]

Hold on so its boogies fault we catch all these Ls becuase threes are being drained left and right? It's boogies fault we give up huge leads when he's resting on the bench? It's his fault that Avery Bradley dropped 25 on us in Boston? Troy Daniels had a career night?

Well him throwing up bad shots and trotting up the floor certainly doesn't help our transition defense(which is where we give up most of those stupid wide open 3 balls.

 

[sdballer]

Well him throwing up bad shots and trotting up the floor certainly doesn't help our transition defense(which is where we give up most of those stupid wide open 3 balls.

Defending Transition 3s is rarely going to be the responsibility of a center.

 

[pshn80]

And I'm really tired of the blatant IRRATIONALISM of Boogie bashers. Its sincerely offensive in its stupidity.

If DeMarcus Cousins was jogging downcourt kicking puppies and stealing candy from babies, but in the process was putting up 27pts 11rebs and having a STAGGERING impact on our +/-, the greatest impact btw of any Kings star since those stats started being recorded in 2000 -- Webber topped out at +3.3, Kevin at +3.7, Bibby at +2.5, Peja +5.8, Tyreke +1.1, while Cousins is at +10.7 after being at +9.5 last year -- he would STILL be providing you will absolutely enormous positive impact.

Every single little whiny complaint about Cousins' own whining, and yes the irony is thick, comes from within the numbers. Meaning, that DESPITE every single little whiny complaint, despite every single complaint about oh he didn't defend this play, or oh, he didn't get back, or how he gave a mean scowl that made me wanna cry or whatever the hell the most recent B.S. is, he puts up completely dominant numbers WHILE DOING ALL OF THAT. All of the fans whining about oh DeMarcus doesn't do that or doesn't do this, or he is so frowny faced or whatever else we have, doesn't take away from the raw domination on the court. This isn't a oh, he scored 30 on the night, but then he frowned so he only finished with 22. No, He scored 30 while frowning, complaining and all the rest, and his 30 counts just as much as the 30 from the nicest friendliest most technicolor unicorn leotard wearing ***** of this fanbase's wet dreams.

27 and 11 is 27 and 11. The only time you can even start to play 27 and 11 isn't 27 and 11 games is when the 27 and 11 doesn't make an impact on the +/- ala a Blake Griffin. When the 27 and 11 is combined with a superstar +/- as well, then 27 and 11 is 27 and 11 and the people whining about it are the ones being irrational and prejudiced, not the other way around.

I'm sorry to hear this from you. Whiny? I made some observations abou Cuz's unacceptable weaknesses and you call me whiny? I have and want Cuz on this team. He 's an all star offensive player. I want him to straighten up and fly right. I won't call your recent responses whiny but the temptatio is there. There s room for all of us here without classifying some as stupid.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I'll state this again. This ain't much about Karl vs Cousin. We badly need a starting quality SG.
People are shooting all over the perimeter because we are fielding undersized PGs against a legit size back court.
DC is Karl's tempation candy. Get a better SG and DC will remain as a backup PG.
And come on, DMC is ballin close to MVP numbers.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Stop posting stupid empty stats!!! Its energy and effort, giving a crap out there that we are complaining about. When your as talented as he is and have as high a usage rate, it would shock me more if he doesn't get 25 pts a night even when he decides to sleepwalk through games(which he has been doing far too often this season, and especially in this terrible stretch here). Really sick and tired of Cousins supporters just posting 27 and 12 anytime anyone remotely criticizes him. YOU CAN'T PUT STATISTICS ON PROFESSIONALISM!

And you should not call out the guy who got the triple double for lack of effort in a blow out...

 

[k_dubb90]

Well him throwing up bad shots and trotting up the floor certainly doesn't help our transition defense(which is where we give up most of those stupid wide open 3 balls.

Since when does a center have to close out on a guard shooting a 3? If anything you should watch some YouTube highlights of opposing guards putting big numbers on us and then come back and tell me it's boogies fault

 

[jcwkings]

Defending Transition 3s is rarely going to be the responsibility of a center.

It is when someone has to sink to the paint to cover the big rim running while Cousins gallops back.

 

[Dbeltz24]

Yes, very simple explanation for that is how his coach is playing him. Not magic. And not Boogie's call. The offense puts you at the 3pt line as a 270lb center...well if you think Patrick Ewing or Shaq would be doing better with that garbage than Cuz does I've got a bridge to sell you.

Even before this year, Boogie never shot over 50% from the field. Shaq, was shooting close to 60% and was over 50% in his younger years. So you can throw all these stats about (27,11), but an elite big man shoots over 50. Demarcus is a great player in today's world, but let's not get carried away here with his inflated stats this year since its clear Karl's system gets us more offensive possessions per game.

 

[VF21]

And another one bites the dust...