ESPN: NBA adopts 'business casual' dress code

#31
So whats the diff between Dress Jeans and regular jeans?

A Designer Label?

Too bad Rodman not still in league he would prob get confused and think it meant a Jeans Dress, prob a tight mini )
 
#32
TheLoneWarrior3 said:
They ask them to look professional, what is wrong with that?
To look professional and to act professional are two seperate issues. By making a dress code the NBA is trying to smoke screen everyone into believing that NBA players are respectable. Some are, the majority are not.
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#33
Well, its definitely not as strict as I thought it would be, so there should be less complaining from the league's whiners. I found it interesting that they will still allow "ear bling". All other forms of "bling" were banned, so why not ear rocks. I wonder if there is a clause for "mouth bling"?
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#34
Gargamel said:
No. You sell to the parents of the hip-hop kids.

And furthermore, screw the kids, as Bill Maher would say. It's high time the league placate the adults who actually understand and appreciate the game itself over the frill and fluff that surrounds it.
Standing ovation!!!

 
#35
no offense to anyone, but i see some player hating going on. athletes are rich. they get paid to entertain. fans dish out money for season tickets because they want to. it's their choice. it's not an obligation. and obligation would be people going to church and giving real 10% tithes. now it would become an issue for the members if the pastor is seen in a brand new car every sunday. but see these nba fans do it because they want to. they want to get entertained. players get money and they rock the bling bling. we (the fans sign their checks) and this includes buying jerseys, shoes, tickets, league pass, etc. if this is an attempt for stern to shoot for better customer relations then he has shot himself in the foot.
 
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#36
GreenKing said:
To look professional and to act professional are two seperate issues. By making a dress code the NBA is trying to smoke screen everyone into believing that NBA players are respectable. Some are, the majority are not.


i agree
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#37
tyrant said:
no offense to anyone, but i see some player hating going on. athletes are rich. they get paid to entertain. fans dish out money for season tickets because they want to. it's their choice. it's not an obligation. people go to church and give real 10% tithes. now it would become an issue if the pastor is seen in a brand new car every sunday. but see these nba fans do it because they want to. they want to get entertained. players get money and they rock the bling bling. we (the fans sign their checks) and this includes buying jerseys, shoes, tickets, league pass, etc. if this is an attempt for stern to shoot for better customer relations then he has shot himself in the foot.
Oh, good lord.

It is so NOT about player hating. If anything, it's about the players not showing a little respect and consideration for the people who make their opulent life styles possible.

I am an NBA fan, have been since 1965. I have nothing but respect for the players. I do not, however, especially like to see them looking more like gangsta thugs when they're out representing the team I've loved for 20 years. If they want to do it on their own time, more power to them.

Again, it is NOT about player hating. The term "hating" gets thrown around way too much nowadays, much like "dissing." Criticism ISN'T hate.
 
#38
tyrant said:
no offense to anyone, but i see some player hating going on. athletes are rich. they get paid to entertain. fans dish out money for season tickets because they want to. it's their choice. it's not an obligation. and obligation would be people going to church and giving real 10% tithes. now it would become an issue for the members if the pastor is seen in a brand new car every sunday. but see these nba fans do it because they want to. they want to get entertained. players get money and they rock the bling bling. we (the fans sign their checks) and this includes buying jerseys, shoes, tickets, league pass, etc. if this is an attempt for stern to shoot for better customer relations then he has shot himself in the foot.
Declining attendance and ratings plus complaints about the athletes demeanor suggest that the fans are NOT choosing to support the NBA anymore. Thus Stern's attempts to solve that problem.
 
#39
RoyalDiva said:
Declining attendance and ratings plus complaints about the athletes demeanor suggest that the fans are NOT choosing to support the NBA anymore. Thus Stern's attempts to solve that problem.


what team in the league that doesnt suck has declining attendance? it's true that alot of the ratings are down, but that's because people do not watch a boring spurs/pistons nba finals.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#40
tyrant - The image of the NBA is tarnished; and its effect has been felt the most on the very demographic Stern wants LEAST to lose.

So, he's taking steps to correct the situation. First is the "business casual" dress. There will most likely be others; some subtle, including a possible shift of hip-hop focus (just a guess at this point) and some pretty blatant, such as the Maloof outreach to the "gold standard" fans.

Some will work; others won't.

You may not agree with it, and not everyone will, but the bottom line is that as NBA CEO Stern is doing what he feels needs to be done for the betterment of the business. Unless the team owners decide he's no longer the right person to keep making those kinds of decisions, he'll continue to do it.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#41
tyrant said:
what team in the league that doesnt suck has declining attendance? it's true that alot of the ratings are down, but that's because people do not watch a boring spurs/pistons nba finals.
You don't cater to your captive audience that has no money. They're pretty much in the bag -- what are they going to do? Start watching hockey in protest of their heroes being required to wear a collared shirt? The horror. You cater to the middle of the road people who can afford to buy the tickets, and buy many of the jerseys for their children as well. Ratings have been slumping for years now, at the same time that the classiness and maturity of the players has gone in the crapper. The two are not unrelated. So a couple of small steps now this summer -- prevent the high school kids from making the direct jump, and have the players dress respectably. Baby steps. But baby steps in the right direction if you're trying to convince the people who buy the tickets to keep on forking over for higher and higher ticket prices.
 
#42
great points brick and vf21. as the commissioner stern has to do what's best for the business. however, i still don't think it's necessary to have a dress code as a way of dicplinary action. players can still be as greedy as sprewell, as outspoken as iverson and as violent as hitting a fan in the face; they'll just be doing it with a suit on.
 
#43
It's not like they have to wear suits to the bathroom, they just have to look more professional. I don't know why they're making such a big deal about it.
 
#45
I don't see the problem with the dress code at all, its actually kind of a welcomed sight. I think Stern and the NBA leadership is dealing with an image problem and while the dress code won't change the behavior of its players, I'm convinced that its not thier only course of action to address the problem. I am fairly confident there are other measures being taken to try and improve the image of the players in fans minds, just none quite so visible.
 
#46
tyrant said:
great points brick and vf21. as the commissioner stern has to do what's best for the business. however, i still don't think it's necessary to have a dress code as a way of dicplinary action. players can still be as greedy as sprewell, as outspoken as iverson and as violent as hitting a fan in the face; they'll just be doing it with a suit on.
Unfortunately, there's only so much you can do to punish a player by his actions. Making them look the part of grown men is about the best Stern can do to clean perceptions and misperceptions about the NBA. People judge others by appearance, right or wrong.
 
#47
It's hard to agree or disagree(at least for me). On one hand I see the positive of David Stern trying to promote a "better image" of the NBA. On the other hand, you can dress up crap and call it filet mignon but at the end of the day it can still taste like crap.

I just feel like there needs to be more than just dressing the part for the NBA to have a better image.


http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/13694642p-14537417c.html
Others such as Tim Duncan have also spoken. The San Antonio Spurs leader, with as spotless an image as you'll find and one to wear an untucked button-down shirt with jeans, has said that he will contest any strict dress code.
While everyone deservingly so is beating AI down for voicing his opinion, no one cares to mention that Tim Duncan of all people is against it. I also find it ridiculous that this was presented in the CBA in July and yet no one thought to mention untill NOW.
 
#49
Elise10 said:
It's hard to agree or disagree(at least for me). On one hand I see the positive of David Stern trying to promote a "better image" of the NBA. On the other hand, you can dress up crap and call it filet mignon but at the end of the day it can still taste like crap.

I just feel like there needs to be more than just dressing the part for the NBA to have a better image.


While everyone deservingly so is beating AI down for voicing his opinion, no one cares to mention that Tim Duncan of all people is against it. I also find it ridiculous that this was presented in the CBA in July and yet no one thought to mention untill NOW.

The players were concerned with money in July..probably didn't even read the thing about the dress code.

I guess it depends on what someone thinks is a "strict" dress code. Personally , I don't think this is strict..but I guess if you're a whiney, wealthy, brat of an athlete who has always been able to do what you want..it seems pretty strict.

As strange as it is...a lot of times people do act a little better if they're dressed better.
 
#50
A lot of people forget a good chunk of these "playaz" come from ghetto life. They probably used clip-ons for neck ties if they ever had to dress up for anything. Only difference now is they are getting paid for ball, not selling crack, to flash of their bling in da hood style.

To them, this dress code is like asking them to be white... it's not going to happen, unless you're Michael Jackson.
 
#51
BLNINJA #81 said:
A lot of people forget a good chunk of these "playaz" come from ghetto life. They probably used clip-ons for neck ties if they ever had to dress up for anything. Only difference now is they are getting paid for ball, not selling crack, to flash of their bling in da hood style.

To them, this dress code is like asking them to be white... it's not going to happen, unless you're Michael Jackson.
Being from the hood doesn't exempt a player from the NBA's dress code. I am sorry but people cant use ignorance as an excuse they sure as hell cant use I am from the hood as their reasoning. The NBA needs to step in and stop the league from turning into another street ball league. Street ball is garbage.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#52
BLNINJA #81 said:
A lot of people forget a good chunk of these "playaz" come from ghetto life. They probably used clip-ons for neck ties if they ever had to dress up for anything. Only difference now is they are getting paid for ball, not selling crack, to flash of their bling in da hood style.

To them, this dress code is like asking them to be white... it's not going to happen, unless you're Michael Jackson.
Ah the evil racism of reduced expectation and accusation that some how looking professional means adopting a particular races style of dress. First of all when Brad Miller wears a Cubs hat worn jeaens and a T-Shirt he is fully capible of looking just as unprofessional as AI with a bandana under a hat covered in gold sporting pants with room for a family of four. Next I suggest you go to church in the "ghetto" or as I like to call it an ecnomically disadvantaged neighborhood. espcially one with a large African Americna population. I think you will find that most of members some how manage to dress appropriatly and might take exception to any suggestion you might have that they are "dressing white." (I strongly suggest you check out a Nation of Islam Temple and make that coment about thier bow ties)

If this still does not convince you ask Iverson's Mother or any other player from a tough back ground if her son should know how to dress.
 
#53
I have tried to rationalize this every since I heard it was coming down. Now that a dress code is in place, I have very mixed feelings.

On one hand.... as a father of two teenaged young men, yes I do agree that the dress needs to clean up a little bit...no a lot. The doo-rags, the "tent-sized" T-Shirts, and the pants hanging off of the behind in the arena I think is very tacky. There is noting wrong with a collared shirt and some slacks with dress shoes.

On the other hand.....this in my opinion should not be mandated by the league and to me it is.....institutionalized RACISM/CULTURALISM....YEA, I SAID IT!!!!!, and I am ready for the critisism. Once you place a mandate upon a particular act, speech or image, it singles out an individual, group or a learned behavior. We all know and nobody is stupid here that either Stern is pointing out Allen Iverson and those that dress like him or the hip-hop music culture which is represented by 95-98 percent African Americans that so influences so many of the young African-American athletes that come from the hood just like Jay-Z, 50 Cent and other artist. They want to dress like athletes and the athletes want to dress like them.

And the thing about this is stuff like this always starts at home. And to have an outsider like David Stern (and I do not care if he does sign their paychecks) to try to force this issue is making things worst. If this came from individual owners/coaches/GMs that are much closer to the situation and kept as an in-house issue, this would be far more effective. Hell, even Mark Cuban is not going to try to enforce this on the Mavericks...is he? But for Stern to try to "clean up the image" of the league this way is backwards and now it has become awkward.

And I get sick and tired of hearing of fans try to rationalize this by saying that we all have to uphold a dress code at our places of business. STOP IT PLEASE!!! We all know that the business of entertainment is not the real world!!! They are not on the same level as us and that is a fact, as unfair as it is. Nobody comes to pay and see me manage an apartment complex. We do pay to see them play and the rules are different, always have and always will be.

Stern's heavy handedness is going to blow up in his face one of these days.
 
#54
Purple Reign said:
I have tried to rationalize this every since I heard it was coming down. Now that a dress code is in place, I have very mixed feelings.

On one hand.... as a father of two teenaged young men, yes I do agree that the dress needs to clean up a little bit...no a lot. The doo-rags, the "tent-sized" T-Shirts, and the pants hanging off of the behind in the arena I think is very tacky. There is noting wrong with a collared shirt and some slacks with dress shoes.

On the other hand.....this in my opinion should not be mandated by the league and to me it is.....institutionalized RACISM/CULTURALISM....YEA, I SAID IT!!!!!, and I am ready for the critisism. Once you place a mandate upon a particular act, speech or image, it singles out an individual, group or a learned behavior. We all know and nobody is stupid here that either Stern is pointing out Allen Iverson and those that dress like him or the hip-hop music culture which is represented by 95-98 percent African Americans that so influences so many of the young African-American athletes that come from the hood just like Jay-Z, 50 Cent and other artist. They want to dress like athletes and the athletes want to dress like them.

And the thing about this is stuff like this always starts at home. And to have an outsider like David Stern (and I do not care if he does sign their paychecks) to try to force this issue is making things worst. If this came from individual owners/coaches/GMs that are much closer to the situation and kept as an in-house issue, this would be far more effective. Hell, even Mark Cuban is not going to try to enforce this on the Mavericks...is he? But for Stern to try to "clean up the image" of the league this way is backwards and now it has become awkward.

And I get sick and tired of hearing of fans try to rationalize this by saying that we all have to uphold a dress code at our places of business. STOP IT PLEASE!!! We all know that the business of entertainment is not the real world!!! They are not on the same level as us and that is a fact, as unfair as it is. Nobody comes to pay and see me manage an apartment complex. We do pay to see them play and the rules are different, always have and always will be.

Stern's heavy handedness is going to blow up in his face one of these days.
When I get dressed for work I have to follow some rules on my "image". If you are dressing a certain way to follow some guidelines for your religion thats one thing. Rules cant dictate that you go against your religious believes and not wear those items of clothing except for a few exceptions drivers license for the lady with a full head vail in florida for example. But in no way is the fashion of the NBA following some spritual belief. When NBA players are showing up to the arena which happens to be their place of business they should look like professionals. They have their own time to dress however they please.

So by making the NBA players dress in Giorgio Armani is being racist?
 
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#55
GreenKing said:
When NBA players are showing up to the arena which happens to be their place of business they should look like professionals. They have their own time to dress however they please. So by making the NBA players dress in Giorgio Armani is being racist?
They do have a dress code, it is called a uniform!! How a player dresses from the time they walk out of their house until the time they put on their NBA gear is their time and their business. If a camera is following them from the time they get off of the bus or out of their car until the time they walk into the locker room is not the player's responsibility. And if the established corporate business world has a problem with that, they are not being honest.

I think if Stern or his corporate minions would just come out and be honest and say that they have a problem with the "perceived thug image" and that they think that how you dress reflects how you act I would respect them more.
 
#56
These basketball players, aka employees, are on company time. As such, they are required to follow a dress code. And that has absolutely zilch to do with race or culture. Just ask Magic Johnson, who has an even stricter dress code in place for his mostly-black employees working in his businesses.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#57
Purple Reign said:
And I get sick and tired of hearing of fans try to rationalize this by saying that we all have to uphold a dress code at our places of business. STOP IT PLEASE!!! We all know that the business of entertainment is not the real world!!! They are not on the same level as us and that is a fact, as unfair as it is. Nobody comes to pay and see me manage an apartment complex. We do pay to see them play and the rules are different, always have and always will be.

Stern's heavy handedness is going to blow up in his face one of these days.
1) That is a nonsensical argument -- nobody pays to see you work and yet YOU are the one who should have a dress code? Quite the opposite. You are also artificially restricting the player's job. They are NOT just basketball players, but salesmen as well. They may not like it. But that's the cost of getting a stupid sum of money to bounce a ball. An adult realization that many of us have is that the good things in life come with responsibilities. Part of an NBA player's is to help sell the league so that the league can actually afford to pay them millions of dollars a year to play hoop. That goes beyond the court. They are "working" whenever they show up someplace they otherwise would not at the behest of the league or the team. The games themselves are only the tip of the iceberg.

2) Business is business, including the business of entertainment. There is NO difference, its all about making the most money. If tommorow every kid in America thought wearing a doo rag and bling looked idiotic, within a very short period of time NO entertainer would do it (other than for a cheap laugh). In fact if history is any guide, that day will likely come as the next generation of kids finds their own style and looks at this era the same way we look at big hair and spandex in the 80's, leisure suits and platform shoes in the 70's, or tie die and shagginess in the 60's.

3) The racism angle is irrelevant. The great urban myth of the "dressing white" (and we could go badly off topic here with how myths such as dressing well = white, education = white etc. is actually very damaging to prospects for african american youth). It is true that Europeans invented the modern suit, or at least some forms of it. But it has long since become the universal standard of good dress around the world (and the players are not even being asked to wear full suits). People of means wear them on every continent, every nation, when they want to look accomplished. There are more localized forms of dress that serve the same function in individual areas, but the suit is universal. Furthermore, it is far more accurate to say that it is "ageism" -- because the attempt is to make the players dress as grownups, of whatever race, rather than dress as a particular race. How many accomplished adult professionals of WHATEVER race do you know who wear baggy pants and doo rags? How many mature 30 year olds seize onto the newest artist or player and decide they want to dress just like him? Not many. It is a reflection of youth, at a time when you don't know yourself and are still questing around for role models. If this ruling is anything, its a ruling that this is still an adult league.

4) And here is how that comes together, why the business of making money in basketball is different from the business of making money in music. In popular music, everybody dresses like a jackass. They all aim to have their "image", and a significant target of that is kids. And that works in music, because all you have to do is sell your artist, and then the entry price for a kid (or whoever) to give you money is very low -- $16 for a CD or whatever. Even somebody working at McDonald's (where they require uniforms BTW) can afford that if they are really into the artist. And having a tiny niche of the overll audience is enough. If you do no more than appeal to 1 million people in the entire country enough that they buy your stuff, you are doing very well. And so it presses you to be more outrageous, to be more unique, to sell your image and carve out a small kindgom. But in the NBA the financial lifeblood is TV revenues and arena revenues. TV revenues depend on WIDESPREAD appeal. You need to capture a broad swath of the public, in every part of the country. And season tickets cost thousands of dollars a year for the cheap ones before we even get to all the parking, refreshments etc.. The people you are earning your money from are NOT kids working at McDonald's, but established at least modestly successful adults. And so just as entertainers are smart to dress to THEIR target audience (while simultaneously alienating large swaths of other potential customers), the NBA is now being smart about appeasing THEIR target audience.


5) And finally of course the players can and will wear whatever they want on their own time. Same as you or I. I do NOT wear a suit at home. Most of the time I would rather badly fail Stern's dress code. But that does not mean that I am such a self-involved and insecure child that I march into the office Monday morning wearing my grubbies. Nor do the mailroom guys, several of whom I know naturally dress hip hop. You come to work, you dress like a pro for work purposes, and then you go home and wear what you want. Not racist. Not fascist. Just being an adult. Unfortunately that's probably a tough thing for many of the guys in the NBA because they have been so pampered and insulated for so long that they are totally out of touch and in many ways have never had to make the transition to being an adult that every other kid in America does at some point. Lot of 30 year olds going on 17 out there.
 
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#58
I'm on the fence about this decision by Stern and the association. Now, don't get me wrong, AI does go all out with his dress, his hair and other randoms that make you want to slap him upside the head and wonder wtf hes on about. I'm sure we've all seen it, said it, and felt it. However on the other dimension... Bobby Jax attire, wether it was MLB jerseys or not was tasteful. Understand, tasteful is entirely in the eye of the beholder, and it seems as if the real big split here is age factor.

I do feel that at certain press meetings, interviews (unless in their homes) and mass media events they should be somewhat dressed to impress. They do get paid alot of money, and alot of us spend our hard earned money for cable access, season tickets, team items, etc etc. That however doesn't entitle us to determine what a player should have to wear. Just because their salaries are based around fan output, doesn't mean we own them. That, leaves a sour taste in my mouth as a fan and I'm sure in theirs as players.

The large medallions, ok... I can also agree with that. So many of you consider it flaunting, why would that bother you in the first place ? Has it somehow changed your views as fan, or made you feel bad because a player of a National Basketball League is buying items for himself that were earned ? I don't quite see the adult look or concept opinions you're throwing out with this. Adults, don't give a damn what the next person is wearing. Do you walk around your workplace and demand someone takes off that platinum cross someone may be wearing, or that 10k engagement ring ? I mean come on now seriously. I'll be the first to say that basketball as a whole with the NBA has changed, and through that change the one team I'm in love with is consistant and true to its roots. Lets not kid ourselves here however, its not the players that need a reconstruction - its our league.

In the end, I'm 50/50 on this. You should be allowed to express yourself in a lifestyle you've loved, or participate in. Hell, I'm sure noone would give a damn if they were wearing tye-dye's and bellbottoms. What If i said I've got a huge problem with the American Eagle Nash seems to adore...they should outlaw it immediately!(plain retarded) In the end I feel as if its too many of you have a grudge at the hip hop lifestyle, moreso than anything else. Yet, entirely too many are confusing hiphop/basketball with RAP(keyword) and the wigged out gangsta spin off of a true art form and lifestyle. Once again its an age split-off, and while you think they should gear it towards an adult likelyhood, make no mistakes - its the youth that right now in this day and age MAKE THIS GAME.


my 2 cents.

ps :

Bricklayer said:
How many accomplished adult professionals of WHATEVER race do you know who wear baggy pants and doo rags?
exactly the type of person my post was directed at.
 
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Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#59
Purple Reign said:
How a player dresses from the time they walk out of their house until the time they put on their NBA gear is their time and their business. If a camera is following them from the time they get off of the bus or out of their car until the time they walk into the locker room is not the player's responsibility.
If they could charter their own private planes to fly from city to city and elect not to travel with the team, that's fine. Except that the teams require the players to travel together, meaning it is not their "own" time, it is "company" time. They are participating in team functions as a member of their team. They can follow the dress code, pay the fines, or choose to work somewhere else.

Why does this bother you so much? Are you personally affected by this somehow? Do you REALLY care that millionare professional basketball players can no longer wear sweats or throwback jerseys while riding on the team bus? I think this is all being blown a bit out of proportion....
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#60
VarianSyn said:
exactly the type of person my post was directed at.
Happy to be directed at.


And yes, a customer almost ALWAYS has the "right" to dictate how an employee of a company he/she buys from dresses and acts. That "right" is very simple: money. If they don't like the image, they won't buy. If they don't buy, the business suffers. And then a smart business reacts.

I wear a suit to work. Is it because I just LOVE wearing suits, where them around town, wear them to bed? Hardly. I have never really minded wearing them (I of course look DAMN good in a suit :p ), but it takes 30 seconds after I hit the front door for the jacket to be hung up, the tie removed, the shoes kicked into a corner, and a pair of sweats to be pulled out of the bottom drawer. But when it comes time to go to work, the suit comes back out of the closet. And why? Because the CUSTOMER wants to see it. Because they are paying us exorbinant sums of money as top end professionals and it makes them uncomfortable to see us dressed down into sweats and t-shirts. Successful people wear suits. Its a mark, a symbol, a uniform. If they are going to hire us, we have to pass a sight test of successfullness. Same reason the offices are painted and carpeted so nicely rather than just setting up in some cheap low rent warehouse somewhere. Its all about the customer, its ALWAYS all about the customer. If tommorow they started expecting Ivy League lawyers to wear sweats and sneakers, it wouldn't be a month before that's what we'd be dressed like.

VarianSyn said:
Once again its an age split-off, and while you think they should gear it towards an adult likelyhood, make no mistakes - its the youth that right now in this day and age MAKE THIS GAME.
And that's where you are wrong. And its nothing against the youth (as if that is even a singular entity). Its just simple economics. The youth can buy jerseys, provide enthusiasm and a next generation of paying customers, but in particular as salaries and ticket prices soar higher and higher it is an increasingly monied and mature clientle that Stern needs to attract to keep the league growing. Not to mention the overseas marketing, where American youth culture does not translate as well.

Bottomline, if revenues and interest were soaring, this move would not be made. This is a flat out business decision, regardless of who feels "targeted". If the whole league was wearing ****-kickers and 10 gallon hats and Stern saw his urban audience dwindling in response, he would outlaw those too. It is not in the league's interest to be captured by any niche amrket. It wants to be universal. And so here it is resorting to a VERY mild form of the universally accepted dress code for success.
 
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