ESPN: Manning joins Favre as he wins 3rd NFL MVP
- Thread starter kingsnation
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I am admittedly a Colts fan, but I think he is more deserving this season than either of the other two years he won it. And I think he's more deserving than any other MVP in last three years (Shaun Alexander, LT, Tom Brady).
After starting off poorly, the team needed him to play flawlessly and they needed 8 wins in a row to have a shot at the playoffs. That's what happened, and the clincher in Jacksonville was a truly MVP performance (completed first 17 passes, rallied back from early two score deficit, finished 29-34 with three touchdowns with zero running game), and was a snapshot of what had been going on since Week 9. In that eight game stretch, he only had one bad game, against Cleveland. Other than that, he carried his team for two months.
And in the first seven games, he rallied them back in Minnesota after being down 15-0 at halftime, contributed to one of the biggest comebacks in NFL history against Houston (hats off to the defense, and to Sage Rosenfels for reminding us all of Jim Kelly's Bills in the Super Bowl in the early '90s), and shredded one of the NFL's best defenses for three touchdowns to beat Baltimore 35-3.
I know the numbers weren't impressive, but to win 12 games (again) with no running game and a struggling defense is. The Colts beat the Chargers, Steelers and Vikings on the road (all division winners), with strong performances from Manning. Take him off that team, and I don't think they win four games.
After starting off poorly, the team needed him to play flawlessly and they needed 8 wins in a row to have a shot at the playoffs. That's what happened, and the clincher in Jacksonville was a truly MVP performance (completed first 17 passes, rallied back from early two score deficit, finished 29-34 with three touchdowns with zero running game), and was a snapshot of what had been going on since Week 9. In that eight game stretch, he only had one bad game, against Cleveland. Other than that, he carried his team for two months.
And in the first seven games, he rallied them back in Minnesota after being down 15-0 at halftime, contributed to one of the biggest comebacks in NFL history against Houston (hats off to the defense, and to Sage Rosenfels for reminding us all of Jim Kelly's Bills in the Super Bowl in the early '90s), and shredded one of the NFL's best defenses for three touchdowns to beat Baltimore 35-3.
I know the numbers weren't impressive, but to win 12 games (again) with no running game and a struggling defense is. The Colts beat the Chargers, Steelers and Vikings on the road (all division winners), with strong performances from Manning. Take him off that team, and I don't think they win four games.
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"Manning has been part of a most unusual season for the Colts, who normally have the AFC South just about clinched by Thanksgiving. Manning had two operations on his left knee in the preseason, cutting into practice time, blunting his usual precision as a passer and, eventually, leading to that 3-4 start.
From there, with Manning getting sharper by the week, the Colts won nine straight games to secure a wild-card berth and a meeting Saturday night with San Diego.
In that streak, Manning is 209-of-290 for 2,248 yards and 17 touchdowns, with only three interceptions. He extended his NFL record with his ninth 4,000-yard season and finished with 27 touchdown passes, 12 interceptions and a 95.0 passer rating."
That's a 72% completion rate for over half the season.
Colts finished 12-4, bear in mind that New England missed at 11-5 meaning every single one of those wins in that 9 game streak was required to make the playoffs. 6 of those 9 games were won by 7 points or less meaning if Manning was anything less than perfect the Colts would be at home right now as opposed to being now one of the should-be favorites for the Super Bowl.
Not as much of a runaway candidate as 2004 given how he played when injured at the beginning of the season, but he is certainly deserving nonetheless.
From there, with Manning getting sharper by the week, the Colts won nine straight games to secure a wild-card berth and a meeting Saturday night with San Diego.
In that streak, Manning is 209-of-290 for 2,248 yards and 17 touchdowns, with only three interceptions. He extended his NFL record with his ninth 4,000-yard season and finished with 27 touchdown passes, 12 interceptions and a 95.0 passer rating."
That's a 72% completion rate for over half the season.
Colts finished 12-4, bear in mind that New England missed at 11-5 meaning every single one of those wins in that 9 game streak was required to make the playoffs. 6 of those 9 games were won by 7 points or less meaning if Manning was anything less than perfect the Colts would be at home right now as opposed to being now one of the should-be favorites for the Super Bowl.
Not as much of a runaway candidate as 2004 given how he played when injured at the beginning of the season, but he is certainly deserving nonetheless.
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He was also downright awful the first few games of the season and part of the reason they got in the hole to begin with. If the MVP was a half season award maybe he should share it with Brett Favre. I don't like him and it colors my judgement, so I'll just shut up, but I don't think he deserves the award.
supe you can't say it's more deserving than bradys last year. I don't care how you slice it but a 16-0 record with 50 TDs is very well deserving.
I'm not a stats guy but when Brady won his 3 super bowls he had no offensive talent at the skilled positions. But what happened when they gave him moss and welker? He elevated his game to another level.
I'm not a stats guy but when Brady won his 3 super bowls he had no offensive talent at the skilled positions. But what happened when they gave him moss and welker? He elevated his game to another level.
He sure did, but the Pats just won 11 games without him, a year later, with even fewer offensive threats and multiple injuries on the other side of the football. Offensive Player of the Year, to be sure. And I'm not arguing with him winning the MVP, but I don't know that the Pats don't win 9 or 10 games without him after what they did this season.
I watch every Colts game, and they don't win five games this year without Peyton Manning.
I watch every Colts game, and they don't win five games this year without Peyton Manning.
He was more up and down than downright awful. And he certainly was part of the reason they started 3-4, but when you consider that the run game didn't get any better and the defense is still spotty, and they still won 12 games ... and then you look at his numbers in the second half, knowing that every game was a must-win game ...
He did have a poor first half, but I can't imagine that you could replace him with any other quarterback in the League and the Colts still win more than 10 games or so. Look at the Pats, Cowboys, Broncos and Packers -- all teams with above average QBs (based on their performances this season), and none of them made the postseason.
Like you said, you don't like him. I do, and I am a Colts fan, so we're at opposite ends of the spectrum, but I think after seeing that the voting was nearly unanimous, it's hard to argue with him winning it.
He did have a poor first half, but I can't imagine that you could replace him with any other quarterback in the League and the Colts still win more than 10 games or so. Look at the Pats, Cowboys, Broncos and Packers -- all teams with above average QBs (based on their performances this season), and none of them made the postseason.
Like you said, you don't like him. I do, and I am a Colts fan, so we're at opposite ends of the spectrum, but I think after seeing that the voting was nearly unanimous, it's hard to argue with him winning it.
They lost the superbowl!
I'm the type that likes to judge pro players based on playoff results if they had won the MVP. But brady still MADE it there and needed some freak plays(tyree) to barely lose by 3. They were 4 points shy from going to 19-0 and you wanna compare what manning has done this year; mind you the playoff haven't even started and you wanna tell me he's more deserving this year than Brady was last year? Ridiculous!
Just noticed the wink icon hahaha sorry
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I guess the irony of it all to me is that he had a very Brady like second half of the season before the Pats decided to go all fire power on offense and Colts fans (not you) used to say flashy numbers rather than subtle consistency is what matters for individual awards. I do believe he deserved his first two and that he is a great QB even if I don't like him for personal reasons. But Turner got the shaft. Matt Ryan owes his success to that guy. No way he comes out half as strong as a rookie without Turner to feed the ball to.
The big difference for me between what he did this season and what Brady typically had to do is that the Patriots always had one of the NFL's best defenses. The Colts this year - and every year - are in the bottom half defensively. I know Brady generally had to carry his offense without a dynamic running game and without standout receivers, and that's what makes him one of the best, even without gawdy numbers. But he always had a strong defense.
Congrats to Manning, he's a great great QB.
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Unfortunately (fortunately for myself) he couldn't slip past my 8-8 Chargers! These 2 teams are starting to develop a great rivalry. Go SD!!!
And to the person who said Peyton deserved this MVP more than the last 3 winners...I can only disagree. I'm not saying Peyton didn't deserve it, because he did.
I can probably agree with your statement when it comes to Alexander, but when LT and Brady won it, they had record setting seasons. And I think that was the NFL's way of honoring them, which won't be argued by me
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Unfortunately (fortunately for myself) he couldn't slip past my 8-8 Chargers! These 2 teams are starting to develop a great rivalry. Go SD!!!
And to the person who said Peyton deserved this MVP more than the last 3 winners...I can only disagree. I'm not saying Peyton didn't deserve it, because he did.
I can probably agree with your statement when it comes to Alexander, but when LT and Brady won it, they had record setting seasons. And I think that was the NFL's way of honoring them, which won't be argued by me
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Shaun Alexander broke the same record LT did the very next year. And of course the NFL is going to honor players setting those kind of records, but I think the proper way to do that is to give them Offensive Player of the Year. For four years in a row (including Manning in '04), the MVP and OPY were synonymous with one another, and I didn't always agree with those decisions. In a way, I'm glad that no one had a standout year statistically speaking, because it helped the NFL buck that trend.
Can't just look at overall stats to determine whether a team is good or bad defensively. Especially because your typical Colts game features only about 9 possessions for each team, due to the way other teams try to milk the clock to keep the offense off the field. Fewer possessions mean fewer yards, but good teams can always move the ball against the Colts defense. Like the Chargers did Saturday night. I know they only had 17 in regulation, but they turned the ball over in the end zone twice.
And the point was, specifically, that the Patriots always have a better defense than the Colts do. Can't argue that.
I think the Colts defense has the opportunity to be really good, assuming Dungy comes back (I don't know what Jim Caldwell). They are really young this year, and there were some unexpected changes along the defensive line in training camp and the beginning of the season. But when you see guys like Tim Jennings and Clint Session costing the team big yardage in overtime, you realize that these guys aren't who you would have on the field if all your guys were good to go. Not that they're bad players, because they both made plays all season long, but they're young and inexperienced. The Colts don't have a defensive tackle who has been with the team more than two years. So I look for their defense to be decent next season.
And the point was, specifically, that the Patriots always have a better defense than the Colts do. Can't argue that.
I think the Colts defense has the opportunity to be really good, assuming Dungy comes back (I don't know what Jim Caldwell). They are really young this year, and there were some unexpected changes along the defensive line in training camp and the beginning of the season. But when you see guys like Tim Jennings and Clint Session costing the team big yardage in overtime, you realize that these guys aren't who you would have on the field if all your guys were good to go. Not that they're bad players, because they both made plays all season long, but they're young and inexperienced. The Colts don't have a defensive tackle who has been with the team more than two years. So I look for their defense to be decent next season.
Actually, I heard a stat on the game Saturday night that was pretty interesting. They said that the Colts have only allowed 7 touchdown passes this year..
Now that's pretty good, but again can be misleading. It was mentioned already about Time of Possession, plus you have to take into account the rushing tds allowed as well as passing yardage.
Now that's pretty good, but again can be misleading. It was mentioned already about Time of Possession, plus you have to take into account the rushing tds allowed as well as passing yardage.
Now heres the voting from that article. Seriously, who else actually deserved to win the MVP this year?
Imagine the headlines: Pennington wins MVP. Chris Johnson wins MVP. James Harrison wins MVP.
Might as well thrown D'Angelo Williams and Matt Ryan in there too.
And also, to throw this out there: if Brett Favre led the Jets to the playoffs - there is no doubt in mind that he would have won this award.
If you want to talk most valuable: See: Brandon Jacobs, Ed Reed, Brian Westbrook.
In conclusion, Peyton should've won this award. I agree with it 100 %. 9 game winning streak to lead his team into the playoffs. If they lost any of those, they would've been sitting at home and the Patriots would be the ones getting humiliated by Darren Sproles.
Imagine the headlines: Pennington wins MVP. Chris Johnson wins MVP. James Harrison wins MVP.
Might as well thrown D'Angelo Williams and Matt Ryan in there too.
And also, to throw this out there: if Brett Favre led the Jets to the playoffs - there is no doubt in mind that he would have won this award.
If you want to talk most valuable: See: Brandon Jacobs, Ed Reed, Brian Westbrook.
In conclusion, Peyton should've won this award. I agree with it 100 %. 9 game winning streak to lead his team into the playoffs. If they lost any of those, they would've been sitting at home and the Patriots would be the ones getting humiliated by Darren Sproles.
You conveniently ignored Turner, Matt Ryan's success depended on Turner, as Saturday's performance showed. Rivers had some really nice numbers and he's still playing.
But hey, I hope they keep giving it to Manning because it seems like he wins his MVP and then the Colts close up shop. I don't know the last time the league MVP won the SuperBowl, my guess would be Warner in 99.
But hey, I hope they keep giving it to Manning because it seems like he wins his MVP and then the Colts close up shop. I don't know the last time the league MVP won the SuperBowl, my guess would be Warner in 99.
Meh; most MVPs in most leagues don't win. Hell, most players and teams don't win championships.
Cowherd was ripping Tony Dungy this morning because the Colts keep getting put out. This article in USA Today says the same thing. This team has won more games in the seven years Dungy has been there than any other team (85-28). Since '02 when he joined the Colts, no other team has made the playoffs more than five times. Only the Pats have won multiple Super Bowls or made multiple Super Bowl appearances.
He's getting the classic Rick Adelman treatment by the media right now, and the truth is that you don't come across a winner like that very often. There's only one other guy in the League right now with that track record, and his team didn't make the playoffs.
That same criticism has been lobbied at Peyton Manning his whole career (can't win the big game, goes home early every year). Whether you like him or not, you can't argue with what he does for his team. But he can't play defense. The Colts lost this weekend because the defense needed to make a stop at the end of regulation and couldn't, and then the same thing happened in overtime. And I'm not knocking the defense, because they came up with some big plays (two turovers in the red zone, big sacks to hold the Chargers to a field goal in regulation). But Manning didn't lose that game for the Colts. He didn't turn the ball over, only got sacked once (on a terrible play call, but one that highlights a huge weakness that the team had all season long), and in general played well, especially when you consider the game Mike Scifres had. But the guy can't do too much more than he did in that one.
If you want to talk about Peyton Manning in '03, throwing four picks against the Patriots, or even the playoff performances from the Super Bowl run (probably his worst), then I can understand that. But I think criticizing him for his performance or questioning his MVP award is unrealistic.
Cowherd was ripping Tony Dungy this morning because the Colts keep getting put out. This article in USA Today says the same thing. This team has won more games in the seven years Dungy has been there than any other team (85-28). Since '02 when he joined the Colts, no other team has made the playoffs more than five times. Only the Pats have won multiple Super Bowls or made multiple Super Bowl appearances.
He's getting the classic Rick Adelman treatment by the media right now, and the truth is that you don't come across a winner like that very often. There's only one other guy in the League right now with that track record, and his team didn't make the playoffs.
That same criticism has been lobbied at Peyton Manning his whole career (can't win the big game, goes home early every year). Whether you like him or not, you can't argue with what he does for his team. But he can't play defense. The Colts lost this weekend because the defense needed to make a stop at the end of regulation and couldn't, and then the same thing happened in overtime. And I'm not knocking the defense, because they came up with some big plays (two turovers in the red zone, big sacks to hold the Chargers to a field goal in regulation). But Manning didn't lose that game for the Colts. He didn't turn the ball over, only got sacked once (on a terrible play call, but one that highlights a huge weakness that the team had all season long), and in general played well, especially when you consider the game Mike Scifres had. But the guy can't do too much more than he did in that one.
If you want to talk about Peyton Manning in '03, throwing four picks against the Patriots, or even the playoff performances from the Super Bowl run (probably his worst), then I can understand that. But I think criticizing him for his performance or questioning his MVP award is unrealistic.
I'm sorry Supes, but if you only put up 17 pts including a free play on a botched substitution (Peyton does get credit for selling that play though) on the 2nd or 3rd worst pass defense in the league, you can't pin it on the defense. Peyton threw at least 2 (maybe 4) sure fire picks that the Chargers defenders just dropped or misplayed. I'll give you that the O-Line bears as much if not more of this blame than Peyton, but still I don't think throwing this one on the defense because they couldn't hold in OT is fair. The defense forced a few turnovers that took easy points off the board for the Chargers, this game should have never got into overtime.
When you can't run, and you start six possessions inside the 20 yard line, you're not going to put up a lot of points. The second to last possession started at their own one yard line. Granted, the playcall on third down was terrible (not the decision to throw, but going empty backfield on third and 2 is stupid; even if you're not going to throw, you don't take that option off the board), but when you start at the one, you're in trouble.
And calling the Chargers pass defense poor ignores what they've done the last six weeks of the season. Eric Weddle played probably the best game of his career. The pass rush was active, and the young o-line did a good job protecting the QB, but they allowed a lot of penetration and there were a lot of scrambles.
Regarding the sure fire picks, that happens to every quarterback in every game. Rivers threw some, too. If you counted dropped interceptions, every QB in the NFL would have 20+. That would be like counting passes that are dropped or deflected by the intended receiver and wind up getting intercepted; that happens to every QB, too.
But I'm not blaming the defense. They played well, overall. But they had a job to do in overtime, and didn't do it. Nothing the quarterback can do about that. You lose the coin toss, you have to get a stop. But three penalties and 75 yards later, you give up a touchdown and lose the game without your offense even warming up for a go at it.
I just hate to hear people say "this guy can't win the big games" about a quarterback, whether it's Marino, Elway or Manning, as if a football game can be one by one player. That's always bothered me.
And calling the Chargers pass defense poor ignores what they've done the last six weeks of the season. Eric Weddle played probably the best game of his career. The pass rush was active, and the young o-line did a good job protecting the QB, but they allowed a lot of penetration and there were a lot of scrambles.
Regarding the sure fire picks, that happens to every quarterback in every game. Rivers threw some, too. If you counted dropped interceptions, every QB in the NFL would have 20+. That would be like counting passes that are dropped or deflected by the intended receiver and wind up getting intercepted; that happens to every QB, too.
But I'm not blaming the defense. They played well, overall. But they had a job to do in overtime, and didn't do it. Nothing the quarterback can do about that. You lose the coin toss, you have to get a stop. But three penalties and 75 yards later, you give up a touchdown and lose the game without your offense even warming up for a go at it.
I just hate to hear people say "this guy can't win the big games" about a quarterback, whether it's Marino, Elway or Manning, as if a football game can be one by one player. That's always bothered me.
I really think Manning is in a league of his own compared to Marino and certainly Elway. Yeah, its a team game, but Manning has had better teams than either of them ever did (not counting the ones Elway actually won with) and consistently comes up short and yet its always someone else's fault. I do give him credit, I have not heard him blame anyone after this loss. But that hasn't been his normal history. Even you will have to admit Supes, the guy historically has thrown everyone but himself under the bus in his post-game pressers.
I didn't see it that way, but I often don't try to read between the lines when players speak to the press. I think they get misinterpreted pretty often.
I remember after they lost to Pittsburgh in '05 he mentioned during a 10 minute press conference that the team had protection issues, and he was viewed as throwing his offensive line under the bus. I didn't see it that way, and no other instances immediately come to mind. But I think he'd be right to come out and say that they didn't get the two stops they needed with the game on the line, but I think he realizes how many games the defense won for them this season (including the Jacksonville game where he pretty much clinched the MVP, and the Cleveland game when he threw two interceptions and they only scored 10 points), and that he didn't necessarily play his best game either.
Anyways, strongly disagree with the assertion that his teams have been better than Elway and Marino. Offensively, sure, but remember the playoff game in Foxboro in '04? The Colts had two or three offensive possessions in the second half, and probably ran less than twenty plays. Time of possession was probably 40 to 20 in favor of the Pats. This is one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history, and they don't get a chance in the second half because the defense can't get the Pats off the field. Manning has never had a dominant defense, and in the years when the defense looks respectable statistically speaking, it's primarily because they weren't on the field long enough in most cases to give up yardage, like '04. Or, like this season, same as in '06, the pass defense looks great because all the yards came on the ground (they're 6th in the league against the pass, but 24th against the rush; they only give up six passing touchdowns, but give up 18 rushing touchdowns). Statistical anomalies.
And that's the major difference, in my opinion, in Manning's career compared to Tom Brady's. I think the actual differences in these guys' abilities and attributes are negligible, and I think it's unfair that people have always pegged Brady as the winner and Manning as the choker who can't win the big one. Especially since Manning has never had a top flight defense, and Brady always has (until two seasons ago). Can you imagine Brady being called a choker after throwing that pick in the AFC Championship in '06? Or the tuck rule going in favor of Oakland?
Of course, we'll never agree on the differences between those two, but I'm not the guy who's bangin' on Brady and saying that he's a system QB and all that trash that people say about him. He'll go down as a top ten, probably a top five guy, once it's all said and done. He's barely 30 and already has three rings. Elite talent, without a doubt. Class guy. Can't say anything negative about him. But I don't think his rings make him a better quarterback. That comparison bothers me.
I remember after they lost to Pittsburgh in '05 he mentioned during a 10 minute press conference that the team had protection issues, and he was viewed as throwing his offensive line under the bus. I didn't see it that way, and no other instances immediately come to mind. But I think he'd be right to come out and say that they didn't get the two stops they needed with the game on the line, but I think he realizes how many games the defense won for them this season (including the Jacksonville game where he pretty much clinched the MVP, and the Cleveland game when he threw two interceptions and they only scored 10 points), and that he didn't necessarily play his best game either.
Anyways, strongly disagree with the assertion that his teams have been better than Elway and Marino. Offensively, sure, but remember the playoff game in Foxboro in '04? The Colts had two or three offensive possessions in the second half, and probably ran less than twenty plays. Time of possession was probably 40 to 20 in favor of the Pats. This is one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history, and they don't get a chance in the second half because the defense can't get the Pats off the field. Manning has never had a dominant defense, and in the years when the defense looks respectable statistically speaking, it's primarily because they weren't on the field long enough in most cases to give up yardage, like '04. Or, like this season, same as in '06, the pass defense looks great because all the yards came on the ground (they're 6th in the league against the pass, but 24th against the rush; they only give up six passing touchdowns, but give up 18 rushing touchdowns). Statistical anomalies.
And that's the major difference, in my opinion, in Manning's career compared to Tom Brady's. I think the actual differences in these guys' abilities and attributes are negligible, and I think it's unfair that people have always pegged Brady as the winner and Manning as the choker who can't win the big one. Especially since Manning has never had a top flight defense, and Brady always has (until two seasons ago). Can you imagine Brady being called a choker after throwing that pick in the AFC Championship in '06? Or the tuck rule going in favor of Oakland?
Of course, we'll never agree on the differences between those two, but I'm not the guy who's bangin' on Brady and saying that he's a system QB and all that trash that people say about him. He'll go down as a top ten, probably a top five guy, once it's all said and done. He's barely 30 and already has three rings. Elite talent, without a doubt. Class guy. Can't say anything negative about him. But I don't think his rings make him a better quarterback. That comparison bothers me.
Yeah I have to agree actually, good point about the T.O.P.
Referring to your and pdx's later posts....pdx is right. That game should NEVER have gone into OT. 2 forced TO's in your endzone and you still lose the game has to hurt. I thought the Colts D played a good game, Mathis and Freeney played like Pro-Bowlers. And I thought the D did a good job on the SD WRs. Chambers was ineffective for a nice stretch there, and Vincent Jackson never even caught a pass, and IMO he's a very under-rated WR. (Rivers never threw it to him very much but still).
And I gotta say that this was the first NFL game I've seen that, in my eyes, a punter was the MVP. Scifres played incredible and it's hard to imagine he (or Rivers) never made it to the Pro-Bowl
Referring to your and pdx's later posts....pdx is right. That game should NEVER have gone into OT. 2 forced TO's in your endzone and you still lose the game has to hurt. I thought the Colts D played a good game, Mathis and Freeney played like Pro-Bowlers. And I thought the D did a good job on the SD WRs. Chambers was ineffective for a nice stretch there, and Vincent Jackson never even caught a pass, and IMO he's a very under-rated WR. (Rivers never threw it to him very much but still).
And I gotta say that this was the first NFL game I've seen that, in my eyes, a punter was the MVP. Scifres played incredible and it's hard to imagine he (or Rivers) never made it to the Pro-Bowl
I agree about the defenses too, but that's because I believe Indy's philosophy is flawed. They have big name talent, but I think their particular talent is suited to warm weather and domes. Great when you have home field, not so great when the Pats and Steelers are putting up nice seasons and you gotta play on their turf.