Eric Musselman Watch Thread

TheJoker

Bench
Just in case hes fired before the deadline lets keep things updated i know it's unlikely the maloofs fire a coach after a half season when he signs a contract but i'm pretty sure the Maloofs did not anticipate of the Kings being this bad. unless things change i can see us getting a new coach.
 
Even though Musselman has been really boneheaded(or should I say Muscelheaded?:D ) this is just like you to create this thread.
 
What good thing is there to post with this team right now?​

How about the fact that the Kings have a guy who's scoring 20 points a game while shooting over 50%/+40% from 3/90% from the line? It's like the Kings got a free lottery pick. Sometimes I feel like my friends who root for other teams are more excited about Kevin Martin than some Kings fans.
 
You've got to be Kidding!!!

Just in case hes fired before the deadline lets keep things updated i know it's unlikely the maloofs fire a coach after a half season when he signs a contract but i'm pretty sure the Maloofs did not anticipate of the Kings being this bad. unless things change i can see us getting a new coach.​

17 games into the season, and Musselman is already on the hot seat????

I hate Kings Fans. And I am one of them.
 
Given the fact that the Kings best OVERALL player has not played recently coupled with the quality of the opponents, the record is no big surprise. However, some of the decisions regrading the rotation seem dubious at best.
 
What's the purpose of this thread? You DO realize that Musselman and Adelman have diametrically opposed philosophies, right? It takes time, and you might want to consider that the players Adelman needed MAY NOT be the best ones to run Musselman's scheme. There also isn't Pete Carril to help with player development as before. I think losing Carril is a big deal.

Also, take into consideration that Bibby is playing hurt, and Miller has only been back about a week. There's a lot here to talk about besides just X's and O's.

At times the offense has looked phenomenal and the defense terrific. At other times, putrid. I don't see any real team depth here; no one off the bench that really picks things up, ala Bobby Jackson.

I'll have to see if they improve over the course of the season. For me, that means the All-Star break. Either way, I wouldn't be calling for Muss' head, but I'd be thinking more about WHY things aren't working. First years are never that easy.
 
musselman is in no danger of losing his job...yet. even if the kings miss the playoffs...he might not be in danger of losing his job. the maloofs fired the winningest coach in sacramento kings history--as well as one of the top winningest coaches in the league in terms of record--and placed their vote of confidence in musselman. it'd reflect very badly on them to dump their guy so quickly and so assuredly. depending on how well or how poorly this season goes, we could be looking at change sometime down the road next season.

but that's all beside the point. while muss is in no danger of losing his job in the immediate sense, he does need to stop ****ing around at some point. these lineups are getting ridiculous. the kings were doomed from the start in the phoenix game, but it doesn't look so good to lose in such convincing fashion, especially when a good portion of the blame rests on the coach's shoulders. people gave him a lot of **** for it, but one thing rick adelman had a great grasp on was the use of a consistent rotation that really only varied when injuries occured. perhaps he could have been more flexible when concerning specific matchup issues, but i have trouble holding that against a coach who was so successful in his approach. we have the opposite working right now. muss is all over the place, and at some point he needs to wake up and realize that the starting five needs to be the five guys that mesh the best together on the court. when he got here, those five guys were mike bibby, kevin martin, ron artest, kenny thomas, and brad miller. injuries aside, nothing has really changed in that regard. and when a guy does go down with an injury, his backup takes his place. simple as that. there's obviously wiggle room to work with as matchups dictate the flow of games, but last night's game was taking that idea a bit far.

what muss is in danger of right now is drawing heavy criticism from the media and from fans alike who all had it much better than they realized under rick adelman. stepping into the shoes of a winner like adelman is tough, and muss is of course doomed to comparisons with adelman, but at this point, muss is also dooming himself to comparisons with those coaches that "might have been." we're currently not playing defense worth a damn, but at least with a guy like don nelson i would have the security of knowing that the offense would rarely stagnate. with a guy like don nelson i would have the security of at least putting up a fight with a small ball lineup. with a guy like don nelson i would have the security of knowing that the kings would compete for a legitimate playoff spot. now, i'm not saying that i want don nelson to coach the kings, but i am saying that, through 17 games, i think we'd be better off. point being that musselman needs to figure out what this team is supposed to look like a lot faster than he claims it will take. 50 games? yeah, right muss. the playoffs may be a recurring dream by that point.

my biggest criticism of muss is this: if he's such a great x's and o's guy, then why are the kings struggling so mightily on the offensive end? guys miss shots, and i understand that, but what's with all of the isolation play? pass the ball! and even if you wanna play some iso, there are ways to swing the ball around to better set up a guy for an isolation move, rather than a single pass and shot. nobody uses these specific words, but rick adelman was a great x's and o's coach. along with pete carril, those guys knew how to get their players dancing around the defense. they could coach defense as well, though maybe it wasn't their greatest strength...or maybe it was just the personnel. so here muss is, an x's and o's coach who can't get his guys to execute more than a few successful plays a game, who's also a defensive minded coach stuck with personnel who can't play defense. what's the real issue here? if you guessed "the kings just aren't that good"...then you're right on the money!
 
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Muss ain't going anywhere before this summer, and likely into next season. Only way he's going to lose his job before then is if there is a full fledged Artest revolt which crushes the team. And maybe not even then. GM is too even keeled, and the ownership too personally invested. But I will say if we were to miss the playoffs this year on the wings of Price/Bibby backcourts, Corliss/Thomas frontcourts, and 20pt blowouts, he'd definitely begin to feel that collar tightening. Part of the problem of working for completely deluded owners who think they should win the title every year.


Note: the ONLY xfactor possibility here would be the Whiz factor, which is pretty scary. Only scenario I can think of where Muss and his big contract is jettisoned midseason would be the Maloofs saying, see, we were right about Whiz being the guy all along, he's no longer coaching the Monarchs, and so here's your midseason replacement!" Which would be...well, doesn't take too many coaching failures in a row to wash all of the success of the Adelman years out of our mouths and reduce us to just another struggling, grasping lottery team once again making "hire Bill Russel" desperation moves to the amusement of the rest of the league.
 
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Just for laughs:

First 17 games last year: Kings 7-10 record. Points per game: 98.1. Points allowed per game: 98.3.

First 17 games this year: Kings 8-9 record. Points per game: 98.1. Points allowed per game: 98.9.

What does it all mean? Maybe that its a bit early to be talking about coaching changes. Rick Adelman was an offensive whiz, yet Eric Musselman's team is averaging the same number of points at the same stage of the season. Musselman's a reputed defensive whiz, yet the team is giving up a smidgen more points per game.

Ultimately, it comes down to players. And we really haven't seen the Kings team as it was envisioned yet due to injuries.

That being said, I was a bit dismayed to see Bibby in the game going under a screen on the last shot against Orlando. I thought Musselman would handle situational substitutions better than Adelman. And the small lineup against Phoenix? I give Muss credit for trying something, but it was pretty obvious before the tipoff that the Kings would be overmatched across the board. Why not try to win playing your game rather than trying to adjust?

My 14 year old daughter had a great observation the other day. One of the TV commentators said something to the effect of, "That's not Kings basketball." My daughter looked at me and said, "What is Kings basketball this year?"

I don't think we know the answer. If it isn't evident by midseason, I may start wondering about the coach.
 
I feel getting Musselman was a mistake. He doesn't know what he's doing. I question some of the things he has done so far such as:

1. What happened to the defense that we saw at the beginning of the season?

2. Why is there so much one-on-one? Does he not know how to create an offensive play?
3. Why doesn't Musselman set plays for K-mart more often. K-mart hardly touches the ball and he's our best shooter.
4. Please tell me why Musselman has elected to have Corliss play sooooo many minutes.
5. Why doesn't he tell Bibby to put his hands up against his opponent?

These are just some of the questions that I would like an answer too. Maybe Musselman is just a great powerpoint presenter and not really a good coach. I don't know, but so far, the results have been terrible.
 
As much as I hated the Adelman "firing", I dont think RA could do much better then Muss with this team. Seems as though this team is somewhere between mediocre and a little bit less. Granted a RA coached team is more fun to watch then a Muss coached team.

I'd be more comfortable with a "wake up or fire Petrie thread"
 
Only way he's going to lose his job before then is if there is a full fledged Artest revolt which crushes the team. And maybe not even then.

The only other possibility that I can think of is if he loses the team. This has happened to him earlier, so the owners and GM shall definitely be watching it. In GS, he inherited a losing franchise, and though he didn't make the playoffs, he showed improvements. Now he has taken over a franchise where the organization and fans have been used to winning, and has largely inherited last year's roster (losing Bonzi was big, but Salmon's good play so far and KM's improvement offsets that to some extent). If the team starts going downhill, and the veterans start complaining, it could be tough on Muss.

Another important factor is the development of the young guys. We have 3 young guys on the team, and the fans shall be expecting the next Kevin Martin from at least one of them in a couple of years. Don't know how much impact a head coach has on the improvements in their games, but again, if there is not much improvement (at least in Garcia's case, who was a first round pick), there shall be questions if Muss is handling him well.

One thing in his favour shall be the TINA factor (there is no alternative). It's not like the market is brimming with proven veteran coaches (unless one is willing to bet on Larry Brown).

In any case, it is too soon to talk about replacing him. He needs to be given a healthy team and more time to prove that firing Rick was not a mistake. I only hope that he does not lose the team (remember the times when Kings had the best chemistry in the league!)

At least we are beating the bad teams consistently :)
 
As much as I hated the Adelman "firing", I dont think RA could do much better then Muss with this team. Seems as though this team is somewhere between mediocre and a little bit less. Granted a RA coached team is more fun to watch then a Muss coached team.

I'd be more comfortable with a "wake up or fire Petrie thread"

Captured a lot of my thoughts there, Heuge. Going back to the Dick Motta era, if you're going to have a mediocre record, you should at least strive to be fun to watch.

Also, love the logo ("That earth creature has stolen the space modulator! Delays, delays!")
 
What's the purpose of this thread? You DO realize that Musselman and Adelman have diametrically opposed philosophies, right? It takes time, and you might want to consider that the players Adelman needed MAY NOT be the best ones to run Musselman's scheme. There also isn't Pete Carril to help with player development as before. I think losing Carril is a big deal.

Also, take into consideration that Bibby is playing hurt, and Miller has only been back about a week. There's a lot here to talk about besides just X's and O's.

At times the offense has looked phenomenal and the defense terrific. At other times, putrid. I don't see any real team depth here; no one off the bench that really picks things up, ala Bobby Jackson.

I'll have to see if they improve over the course of the season. For me, that means the All-Star break. Either way, I wouldn't be calling for Muss' head, but I'd be thinking more about WHY things aren't working. First years are never that easy.
Thank you for providing some sanity to this thread. Especially the first paragraph, but everything is spot on. Most coaches seem to last 2-3 seasons nowadays, Rick was here for 7. Its going to take a lot of time to change the system and there will be resistance in the beginning. Ultimately personel is going to have to change a bit and I think we're in the middle of an evaluating period right now. That has been complicated thanks to all the injuries, but I really didn't expect this team to come together until the trade deadline or the next offseason.

People seem to think that Muss was brought in to win now, I don't think that was the case at all. I always thought he was brought in as a guy who showed some promise but that would also be expendable down the road if a big name coach became available and the team were in position to actually win something. But people need to face the facts and there's nothing Red Auerbach could do with the lineup we have right now.
 
Thank you for providing some sanity to this thread. Especially the first paragraph, but everything is spot on. Most coaches seem to last 2-3 seasons nowadays, Rick was here for 7. Its going to take a lot of time to change the system and there will be resistance in the beginning. Ultimately personel is going to have to change a bit and I think we're in the middle of an evaluating period right now. That has been complicated thanks to all the injuries, but I really didn't expect this team to come together until the trade deadline or the next offseason.

People seem to think that Muss was brought in to win now, I don't think that was the case at all. I always thought he was brought in as a guy who showed some promise but that would also be expendable down the road if a big name coach became available and the team were in position to actually win something. But people need to face the facts and there's nothing Red Auerbach could do with the lineup we have right now.


Muss won't last long enoguh to be part of it if he loses. Not after 8 playoffs seasons under Rick and ownership making the change out to be an improvement. I continue to argue that we might do well to miss the playoffs this year and try to get a young stud. But for Muss...losing just isn't going to be tolerated even if Geoff trades Brad for Brain Scalabrine to get more "flexibility". Rick was fired for merely making the playoffs every year but not winning a title. You think Muss is going to be able to survive multiple years of lottery play? No, for himself, not the team, he's got to at least make it close. Debacles, for whatever reason, are going to land at his feet. The Maloofs have been as spoiled as the fans by the Adelman years. 2 years out of the playoffs likely = automatic Muss departure.

And people need to get off the "no coach could win" kick. I thought Muss was a solid hire. But I am currently being persuaded into rethinking my position. We are NOT a great team, not close. NOBODY coaches this team to a title. But there is a long way from champion to the borderline incompetence Muss has been displaying thus far. While the "kid" remarks are kind of cheapshots based on his age, he has looked every bit that part at times. Absolutely none of the self assurance, established philosophy, and generally steady hand of a real pro. Some of his moves are just amateurish. Right now he's actually become part of the problem, and for his own sake, as well as ours, he's got to get past that stat.
 
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I kind of see both sides. On the one hand this team is just a season and a half into a rebuilding project and is still very much a work in progress. I don't think anyone, from the Maloofs to Petrie to Musselman to the team sees this team as a finished product. It's going to take more time to make this team a contender. And contrary to the doom and gloom around here, the future looks bright. There's still financial flexibility that not a lot of teams have, this team still has assets and some very good young players. The future is still bright.

But Musselman has to find a way to be a part of the progress, and not a part of the problem. Last night he was a problem.
 
People were saying Musselman would improve our defense yet we see teams scoring on us whenever they want to. the Eric Musselman hiring was a joke.
 
People were saying Musselman would improve our defense yet we see teams scoring on us whenever they want to. the Eric Musselman hiring was a joke.​
Yes, we were saying Musselman improved our defense. Little did we know it would only be for a few games at the beginning of the season.

Man, how I wish we could have gone after Bryon Scott.
 
People were saying Musselman would improve our defense yet we see teams scoring on us whenever they want to. the Eric Musselman hiring was a joke.​

Kind of hard to improve the D when your PG is Mike Bibby, your 4 is Kenny Thomas, and your 5's are Brad and SAR.

Petrie needs to throw Muss a bone (or better yet a big). Sure I'm dissapointed in the coaching so far but I dont want to judge until Muss has more then 1 starter who can play good D.

Rick got blown out too. It seems like a lot of people are forgetting that.
 
Oh good. Another waste of bandwidth.

Honestly, Joker, if this is all you're going to post, why not go depress some other team board? You're in LA; don't the Clippers have a board you could birng down with this kind of stuff?
 
VF21 said:
Oh good. Another waste of bandwidth.

Honestly, Joker, if this is all you're going to post, why not go depress some other team board? You're in LA; don't the Clippers have a board you could birng down with this kind of stuff?

I hate both LA teams, i rather not. look i'm not trying to depress anyone but i'm not the only one whos frustrated with Eric Musselman this guy was suppose to improve our defense and its still the samething. i'm sorry if i made this thread at the wrong time.
 
People were saying Musselman would improve our defense yet we see teams scoring on us whenever they want to. the Eric Musselman hiring was a joke.

A large part of defensive effectiveness flows from offensive efficiency. So, until the Kings stop playing one on one, taking crappy shots, and get their best offensive players healthy the defense is going to struggle.
 
A large part of defensive effectiveness flows from offensive efficiency. So, until the Kings stop playing one on one, taking crappy shots, and get their best offensive players healthy the defense is going to struggle.

Spoken like a true Adelman. ;)

And yet evidence is beginnign to mount that he had a point -- all the misses and turnovers are getting us killed in the open court.
 
Spoken like a true Adelman. ;)

And yet evidence is beginnign to mount that he had a point -- all the misses and turnovers are getting us killed in the open court.
While you have a point, last night the Kings were getting killed in open court after MADE baskets... Lets face it run and gun works, buy only if you can OUT RUN your oponents if you can't then you better find a new style of paly and make your oponents play it. This Trot and Jack up Crap is another story alltogether.
 
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