Earth to Reggie... SHUT THE HELL UP!

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Totally erroneous perception. Martin is finally standing up for himself a bit. How is he supposed to react? He's got a right to receive credit for his accomplishments. And he has a right to expect at least some credit from his coach. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but I really think Theus feels threatened because Martin is capable of breaking virtually every Kings record Theus set. And no, I don't have anything to base that on but gut instinct...



Theus backpedaling is ludicrous and a more than a little smarmy, IMHO. And it's just going to get worse. Artest is the only one who draws double teams? Erm, WHAT?!?!?!? Theus is no stranger to the media. He could have said that if he meant that.

Reggie needs to STFU. Now...


Yeah I agree that Kevin has a right to stand up for himself and that's all he did. And to be honest I think everyone knows it's BS to say Ron is the only one draw double teams. I've seen teams double team Kevin before.

edit: Anyone know what else Reggie said in the interview?
 
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Maybe Theus could get a shoe endorsement contract.....as soon as Nike, Adidas or someone comes up with the perfect shoe for inserting in one's mouth. ;)
 
I dont see the problem, its not like martin is leaving the team or anything. Martin doesnt draw double teams but he will next season.
 
Sure, you can be annoyed. A lot more folks than KMart were perturbed with the remark, including me. I am sure Reggie was called by someone up the line to let him know their displeasure. It was a mistake. Another rookie coach mistake and he needs to be more careful.

Wanna fire him?
 
Sure, you can be annoyed. A lot more folks than KMart were perturbed with the remark, including me. I am sure Reggie was called by someone up the line to let him know their displeasure. It was a mistake. Another rookie coach mistake and he needs to be more careful.

Wanna fire him?

So you don't think it's worthy of discussion?

Sorry, but this isn't his first dance. He may be a rookie NBA coach BUT he's been an NBA player and a college coach. In addition, he's played the media game via Hollywood for years.

He's made mistakes like this all season long so apparently he's having learning difficulties and us talking about them seems totally within the bounds of a message board to me. Considering the things we've said about virtually every player on the team at one point or another, I think the discussion here has been pretty tame.

There was a really good reason Rick Adelman didn't continually try and send messages to the players and/or his bosses via the media. It never works out well. Reggie Theus would be well served to remember that the next time he has to go on Grant Napear's show to try and undo the damage he's done by inserting his foot into his own mouth up to his knee.
 
I agree it's worthy of discussion and, as I said, I did not like what he said. I don't even like how Reggie has not isolated Kevin more this season until the last few weeks (like there has been some sort of major change in his game recently that allows Reggie to do this with Kevin...come on). I also believe he has not done enough overall to take full advantage of what Kevin can do to help us win.

But I just don't think that there will be some ultimate outcome from yet another poor choice of words. Reggie is learning. IMHO he will be a fine NBA coach, but he will misstep more along the way, I'm sure, and he will certainly get less leeway in year 2 from everyone, including his bosses.
 
i think this is blown way out of proportion IMHO...

phil jackson makes these kind of remarks all the time about his players and team... he may be trying to challenge his players (i.e. martin) to step up their play, because he doesn't feel that he can create on his own yet...

maybe he has spoken to kevin to be more aggressive in private, but doesn't feel kevin has taken the challenge to heart... phil jackson is the master of using the media to challenge his players to get better, maybe reggie is trying the same methods...

whether it will work or back fire, we will have to wait and see next year...
 
Wanna fire him?

At this stage, I neither want to fire him or extend his contract. Few coaches are so utterly dreadful that I'd demand their head on a pike after one season of a multi-year contract -- although Muss did qualify.

But I'd love to give him a piece of my mind. If his coaching next year is exactly like it was this year, I'd have to give that firing question some serious thought.

It's not that I'm particularly ticked about this one incident, it's more that I see this incident as a symptom of bigger problems. In a very likeable, articulate and persuasive fashion, he says some very dumb things from time to time, some of which indicate that he is not on the same page as players, his bosses, or a lot of the fan base. I can usually overlook the faux pas of publicly uttering something boneheaded, but I can't overlook the fact that he believes those things. That is the part that really worries me.

So give me another 8 or 9 months to ponder the firing question. I'll probably have made up my mind by then.
 
Maybe he did not say it the right way, or should not have said it at all. But it is all true. Ron can change games when it counts, consistently. Kevin cannot. Ron is the best player on the team. Kevin does not need to be whining to the press to reinforce his self image. I do not think that that type of reaction shows growing confidence as much as insecurity.

I love Kevin and he is my favorite King. But I would prefer that he take those comments to heart. If this team becomes a legit contender again, he will not be the # 1 option or the best player on the team. He needs to accept the roll of #2 or even 3. And he needs to somehow overcome this inconsistency, as well as cease the 4th quarter dissapearing acts. If he works on these, he will be changing games regularly next season.

This was about Ron. Kevin is not so good that everything needs to be about him.
 
I agree it's been blown out of proportion. I blame the Bee's sensational headline more than anything else. Apparently, the editor wrote the deceptive headline, "Theus wants Artest back", not reporter Amick. Theus said he had not read the article, but once he found out that it had upset Kevin Martin he had only one thing in mind to fix it - make amends with his star - #23. The coach said he didn't care that, "the blogs, etc." were in panic mode, he only cared about Kevin who he lavished extreme praise on.

I bet all this is forgotten in a week or less when the Kings sports news cycle goes merely off in some other dizzying direction. If not, I bet in a few weeks we hear about Reggie Theus turning up in that little small town in Ohio where Kevin Martin's from with the both of them finding common ground and harmony, maybe having a down home barbecue, whatever. Kind of like when Reggie visited Brad Miller last summer to hang out with him in his small Indiana hometown coming back to report lots of positive things.

Coach Reggie is too smart to let this little episode derail him and he'll do the necessary things to get it back on track and keep it there. Let the soap opera roll for a little while longer...
 
So he'd have to destroy the franchise before anyone could be annoyed with him?
Im saying its not a big damn deal, at least reggie is telling the turth. Unlike musselman saying everything was phenomanal. Here is a post from Realgm that i agree with and is everything im thinking so i dont wast time typing.

I'm tired of people groaning because their coach didn't say 100% nice things about them in the paper! This isn't little league or high school. This is the pros! If Kevin, Ron, Spencer, or insert you favorite King here doesn't like it then go fix your game!

The other thing that's bothering me is that nobody here is saying "Theus, you're wrong! Kevin IS a go to guy." If you can't at least say that then you don't even have a leg to stand on.
 
Totally erroneous perception. Martin is finally standing up for himself a bit. How is he supposed to react? He's got a right to receive credit for his accomplishments. And he has a right to expect at least some credit from his coach. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but I really think Theus feels threatened because Martin is capable of breaking virtually every Kings record Theus set. And no, I don't have anything to base that on but gut instinct...



Theus backpedaling is ludicrous and a more than a little smarmy, IMHO. And it's just going to get worse. Artest is the only one who draws double teams? Erm, WHAT?!?!?!? Theus is no stranger to the media. He could have said that if he meant that.

Reggie needs to STFU. Now...

That is a humongous reach. You actually believe the man is trying to keep Kevin down? Wow, the adoration for Kevin has gone to a whole 'nother level. I don't think I've heard accusations of this kind leveled at a coach in the pros, ever.

If it's like that, the one thing Reggie should feel safe with is, Kevin will never break his assist average. Kevin would be fortunate to average what Reggie did in his worst year.
 
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I think this is just Theus' way of motivating his players. He wants Kevin to be that go-to-guy. Phil Jackson does this all the time. You don't have to agree with his methods, but he's the one that's there everyday on the sidelines, in practices, and for the most part behind the scenes, and is privy to intimate information. I think he's done an excellent job this year and it's a step in the right direction.

edit: I'm not comparing Theus to Phil Jackson, but their methods of motivation. Many coaches use this approach, some with more success than others.
 
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Hmmmm think theus is starting something here?

i may not know a lot about basketball but i think....

1. we know martin can score but hell if Theus says artest is still the one we can rely on points maybe martin will further his game than it is already (start a fire in him or something...) since if he says martin is the go to guy then martin wont improve further on his game since he KNOWS he can score already... why not let him think theres something wrong with his game.... I dont think MArtin has an ego problem

2. probably something to appease ron's ego or something we know he says and does something we all dont like but hate him or love him.. he can score and defend... and its not yet time to declare martin to be our top scorer/go to guy.. he has proven he can play but i dont think Theus is impressed yet.. he wants more from him... or it maybe something with a hidden message that Hey ron you can score...but you dont pass the ball thing

well im not going to bash reggie on what he said im still positive on what hes doing and a five game improvement beating some of the top teams.. (Even if it means losing to the bad ones) with a mess of a lineup (left by musselman)
at least it didnt implode... and he didnt say hell start KT next year :D
 
I think this is just Theus' way of motivating his players. He wants Kevin to be that go-to-guy. Phil Jackson does this all the time. You don't have to agree with his methods, but he's the one that's there everyday on the sidelines, in practices, and for the most part behind the scenes, and is privy to intimate information. I think he's done an excellent job this year and it's a step in the right direction.

edit: I'm not comparing Theus to Phil Jackson, but their methods of motivation. Many coaches use this approach, some with more success than others.

What works for one may not and in this case should not work for the other.

Phil has all the accolades in the world so it's much easier to be motivated in this fashion and get away with it.

Reggie on the other hand........may want to find a better way to motivate someone. He's gotten us a step in the right directions on terms of playing but how many times do I want to see Ron getting pacified at the expense of everyone else on the team. If Ron's not getting the shot he thinks he should be taking, we'll give him iso's, call plays for him. If(insert player not named Ron Artest) isn't getting shots he feels he should be taking.......let's tell him stop complaining (maybe in private, most likely in front of the media)

Kevin has a right to defend himself, although that last comment could have been omitted(about himself, not of Ron). Year 2 will be make or break to see if Reggie can keep his job here
 
Im saying its not a big damn deal, at least reggie is telling the turth. Unlike musselman saying everything was phenomanal. Here is a post from Realgm that i agree with and is everything im thinking so i dont wast time typing.

I'm tired of people groaning because their coach didn't say 100% nice things about them in the paper! This isn't little league or high school. This is the pros! If Kevin, Ron, Spencer, or insert you favorite King here doesn't like it then go fix your game!

The other thing that's bothering me is that nobody here is saying "Theus, you're wrong! Kevin IS a go to guy." If you can't at least say that then you don't even have a leg to stand on.

This is the whole problem though, is that the guys who are working hard, fixing their game, and producing at high levels are the ones getting left out or being critized publicly. I am not blaming Ron but it is another problem with him being on your team. The coach feels the need to coddle him as to prevent a blow up while sometimes at the expense of other players.

And now I will say what apparentely no one else has (although I'm sure I've read it once or twice)...THEUS, YOU'RE WRONG! KEVIN IS A GO TO GUY! He has proven that be being the 6th scorer in the league, among the best in the league at getting to the line, and has hit several big shots including game winners this year.

When you look at guys who have been critized the most (Kevin, Beno, & Spencer) they are the ones who should be praised the most for how they have grown as players and for their contributions. Then look at guys like Ron or even Salmons who deserve plenty of critizism, but Theus is careful with them because they have delicate egos. I didn't hear Theus say one time this year that Ron should pass more, he would never do that.
 
It all comes down to this. Reggie, STFU!!!

Kevins pissed.
Sam Amick hangs up with reggie still on the phone on Jim Crandels show today.
Reggies still doing some major parsing of words. JC.
And...at this point in time, Reggie still hasnt talked to K-Mart.
 
I blame the Bee's sensational headline more than anything else. Apparently, the editor wrote the deceptive headline, "Theus wants Artest back", not reporter Amick.

An aside, as someone who, in younger days, put in stints as both a writer and an editor of one of those old-fashioned paper magazines...

Writers never know what the headlines are going to be, if, for no other reason, because they have no idea what the page layout is going to end up looking like. In practice, the story is edited as needed (which may change its length), photos and boxes related to the story are laid out, other stories and advertising are fit in, and, as a last step, headlines are written which are just the right length for that page's layout. One character, more or less, in a headline, can make the difference between a great-looking page and a really ugly one, and there's no practical way around that. The only thing which is lower on the food chain than a headline is "filler," typically a wire story that nobody cares about, tucked into some obscure page to spare one from having obvious blank space.

So there is nothing sinister or creepy about the editor writing the headline, that's not just routine, it's almost automatic. You can call the headline "deceptive," and it is a bit -- most headlines are, since all headlines are extreme oversimplifications. But if you look over what Theus has said over the last couple of months, there's really little doubt that he wants Artest back next year. He heaps praises on the guy's game at almost every opportunity. Interviewed by Voisin on April 5th, for example, he said "When you need a basket, you run through Ron Artest. If you go through the perimeter, Kevin is not going to make that extra pass. John Salmons is not going to make that extra pass. Ron Artest is that guy." When, in almost every recent interview, he has said that Ron is "that guy," it would be silly to think that he didn't want Ron back next year. The fault with the headline is that he didn't explicitly say so in that interview. If anything, recent interviews leave one with the impression that Reggie's up for making Ron the focal point of the team for years to come.
Until I sit down with Geoff and those guys and really discuss everything, I really couldn't even get into that. But that decision that is going to be made here is something that's going to last for the next four or five years, so yeah, it's a directional thing that we have to deal with.
I note that Grant Napear and Reggie also tried to claim that Theus was quoted out of context, but that the Bee killed that dodge by posting the taped interview.
"I cleared my mind, and I just laughed," Martin said by phone.
Hmmm. I know the feeling.
That was me after hearing today's local sports radio show in the afternoon in which the local pro basketball coach went along with the red-headed host who claimed this beat writer was taken out of context in this story.
As cliche' approaches to attacking print media folks go, that's a good one when said interview can only be found on the paper that refuses no ink. But apparently said radio host who did not attend this media session didn't notice that the interview has been available online for two days now. So for those like him who missed it, we present - once again - 29 minutes of raw and uncut context...
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26975

So I'm not thinking there's a very good case here for blaming the messenger.
 
Im saying its not a big damn deal, at least reggie is telling the turth.

From his point of view, yes. But not everyone thinks it's truth, some people looked at plays from Kevin like in that Spurs playoff game (and a number of others since), and concluded that Kevin could be clutch. Even Salmons made the network highlights with his last second game winner against Dallas. Many people would disagree with Reggie's assertion that Ron is the only option, as should be obvious from this thread.

I do agree that it's not a huge deal if a coach manages to annoy one of their players, even the one that has been made the face of the franchise. I think that a lot of the dispute is really about something deeper, which is Reggie's passionate and abiding man-love for Ron. When about half of STHs have indicated that they don't even want Ron on the team next year, let alone for the next 4-5 years, Reggie's implicit building of a case to redesign the franchise around Ron is bound to get a lot of people really pissed off.
 
I heard Coach Theus say on the radio show today that IF Artest "goes" that he just wants to make sure the Kings get a player back with the same or similar value - meaning demands a double team. He said Kevin is making the kind of fantastic progress that could mean he will soon be demanding double teams every game. Theus once again did not say literally that he, "wants Artest back." Mind readers maybe want to think he does, but for obvious reasons the coach is not saying get the hell out Ron, or Ron please, pretty please, don't leave.

I think this whole story as some others have pointed out is more about Kevin Martin's ego and possible misunderstanding than anything else. Kev's ego is not a bad thing at all as he matures in the NBA. Any misunderstanding Reggie will work to resolve with him. I don't think it's about the ego of the Head Coach or somehow that he's paranoid #23 will surpass some of the Kings records held by old #24. I find that going off into the deep end of conspiracy theory in an unbelievable stretch.

Like I said, I hope this little faux pas goes away soon and does not get even more blow out of proportion. It was so much more fun when we had Muss as a human pinata to kick around - since he deserved constant and rather severe bashing.:rolleyes:
 
The other thing that's bothering me is that nobody here is saying "Theus, you're wrong! Kevin IS a go to guy." If you can't at least say that then you don't even have a leg to stand on.

I'll say it. He hasn't let me down yet. I said he could play when we drafted him, people laughed, said he was too skinny, would never get another contract, would CERTAINLY never start, would be impossible for him to average 10 points a game etc. I believe, if memory serves me correctly, he was labeled a 'scrub'
Given what he has already accomplished, it's not much of a stretch. It would be nice if the coach put the ball in his hands and let him develop that skill down the stretch. Instead all he honed was the ability to jump around and wave his arms calling for the ball while earning a reputation of 'disappearing' in the 4th. It's nigh impossible to score without the ball.

Even IF Reggie had said those things in an effort to motivate (which I think is giving him entirely too much credit, Reggie just loves to hear himself talk and said a bit too much without thinking, IMO, and the follow-up interview was just trying to dig himself out of the hole he yapped himself into) being a go to guy seems a bit of a hard skill to work on during the off season, it's really one you need real game situations to master.

Reggie really should learn from Adelman on a couple of points (aside from coaching) Namely, don't dog your own players in the press and sometimes, the less said, the better. Saying "Phil Jackson does it" is really immaterial, as Theus is NOT Phil Jackson, does not have the respect of the players enough to pull that type of strategy off. Rather it undermines the trust his players must place in him as their leader.
 
^^^My sentiments exactly!

I mentioned it earlier and I'll say it again: Reggie needs to think twice before speaking once. Instead, he speaks and then has to think twice or more about how to extract himself from another messy situation. This isn't good for the team, it isn't good for the fans and it isn't good for the coach.

Sam Amick has no reason to mislead his readers or misrepresent the situation. If he did, his credibility would soon be gone and so would his job.

So...

Theus, you're wrong! Kevin IS a go-to guy!

And the idea that it's Martin's ego that's the problem is beyond laughable. If there's an ego working overtime here, one has to look no further than Coach Reggie Theus.

And, in case anyone is confused, I like Reggie Theus. I think he can evolve into an excellent NBA coach. BUT he's going to have to start admitting to and learning from his public mistakes and quit acting as though it was all a big misunderstanding, that he was quoted out of context, etc. Man up, Reggie. You have the talents and you have the basketball IQ to be a success. But you need to cultivate the kind of respect (especially in public) for your players that you wanted when you were on the court.
 
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Once we go beyond "but I like Kevin because he's so nice" the distinction Theus was obviously aiming for is a guy like Ron, who barrels down into the post and forces the other team to react, and has shown the capability of passing out of that. In other words someone who creates shots for his teammates out of doubles. And that versus a guy like Kevin who remains at his best when his teammates are creating for HIM and barely averages 2 assists a game. That distinction is critical if you understand the game, and like it or not its a reasonable distinction to make from a basketball standpoint. Its the distinction between running an offense THROUGH Ron, vs. runnning an offense FOR Kevin.

However reasonable stance or not, its the coming out with it to the press that is not reasonable. Not smart. And the cause of all this unnecessary fuss. Kevin is a major scorer with enough people blowing "you're special" up his butt on a daily basis to cause him to swell up like a pufferfish. There is no way, none, that going out of your way to elevate his troubled teammate to a level above him in the press is going to go unnoted. Just no way. It was a dumb thing to do. And these are the sorts of completely unnecessary ego-driven mistakes that Reggie has made again and again. If he eventually loses this team and gets himself canned, he is not going to have anyone to blame but himself. He has shown he can coach, shown he can reach people at times, and also shown that he can shoot himself in the foot and cause as much discord as he smooths over. And its completely unnecessary.
 
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I wouldn't even have a problem if Reggie had said that Ron was the best to get the ball. I would disagree with him, but I would not think he was bonkers like I do now. No, he said that Ron was the only one he could trust with the ball at the end with the game on the line. That's just plain crazy.
 
If he was using the term “go to player” as in post player with power, then I would understand, but I really don’t think he was talking about that, he mentioned ‘Kobe and T-Mac” as examples. Those guys are just the team leader with great scoring ability and pace. They take the team on their shoulder and have that killer instinct and they also passing it to their open teammates. Ron rarely, in a blue moon, passes the ball. If he’s our go to guy then so is John.

If anything, I’d like the ball in Brad’s hands, he knows when to pass it and if he’s open he can shoot it. Have I been watching the same games as Reggie? Everybody stands around and watches Ron take it to the hole, see if he makes or misses it – I don’t want to see that anymore.

Maybe this was a little challenge to Kevin to up his game and make it more rounded, but I think it’s really not the right way to do it. I think if Kevin really does want the ball in his hands he has to take the in-bounds pass and work his way up the court, break down the game/other team and see what he wants to do with it (shoot or pass) – something similar to what Kobe does. But I think he needs to work on his handling skills.
 
Part of it is Amick making the most of a story. But there wouldn't be a story if Reggie had kept his mouth shut, or thought for a minute about how to express praise of one player without knocking another.

Study Bill Walsh, Reg. Learn some class.
 
Kevin needs to be given that chance to be our go 2 guy, reggie loves ron but he needs to understand kevin is our franchise player not ron, he needs to stop bashing him in the public and support the growth of the kid
 
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