Douby and Petrie

#1
There's a great piece in Sacramento Bee how the 2006 draft class is one of the worse ever, and only Brandon Roy became a star out of 60 players draft. There are others like Aldridge, Rondo, Gay, Millsap that are promising but that's pretty much it. Of course, our own Douby was drafted that year by Petrie, who has gotten a lot of crap for it. Maybe we should back off on the criticism of Petrie for that year's draft, since it was an extremely weak class.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/019894.html
 
#2
Drafting Douby was a mistake but people need to stop talking about Rondo and Farmar as they would have saved the kings. Both of those guys are decent PGs playing for really good teams and probably wouldnt have developed into what they are now playing for a bad team like the kings. But man i hope this current doesnt mirror 2006 or at least if it does we are the lucky ones who do well.
 
#3
People were also furious that he didn't draft Marcus Williams. Yeah. Tough year.

I also wonder how Rondo would have fared had he come to the Kings. He really was blessed with the absolute perfect scenario for his abilities, but if he had come here we would have needed him to provide offense, and I think he would have looked like a disappointment in that area.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#4
Drafting Douby was stupid, but if you believe Jerry it was done because he put on a shooting display in a private workout. Given Geoff's traditional overemphasis on shooting as a skillset, it was probably predictable.

As an aside, it is irrelevant how many of the entire draft class turned out to be stars, what was relevant was that we tried to draft a PG, and right there available with him there was a far far better prospect in Rondo, who was scooped up 2 picks later.
 
Last edited:
#5
Drafting Douby was stupid, but if you believe Jerry it was done because he put on a shooting display in a private workout.
In retrospect it was stupid, but I don't think that shooting display was the reason he was drafted (at least, I hope it's not). He put up a really great season at Rutgers on a one man team and looked like he could do it all. He's probably the player I've been most wrong about in my entire time amateur draft prognosticating. A dynamic scorer in college, but just looked terrified and tentative every time he came into the game in the NBA. Never developed his ballhandling like he needed to, couldn't even shoot from outside consistently.... just really unfortunate. Just goes to show how important the mental game is to becoming a successful NBA player.

I mean, look at this pre-draft evaluation from his time in college. Does this sound like the Quincy Douby we know?

"Tough-minded kid, likes to be challenged and likes to take over the game. Has a "bring it on" attitude and loves to show people he can play. This attitude is what makes him good and is something you can't teach. Could be a big-time scorer at the next level. Super confident and has a scorer's cockiness that many players wish they had."

http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=18971
 
Last edited:
#6
Question if reverse the picks and say Celtics take douby we get rondo, would douby be a better player today. Would playing with the big 3 give him confidence to be able to do well. Its all reterospect now so it doesnt really matter.
 
#7
Yea I heard the same thing about Douby putting a shooting display in the private workout... I remember something along the lines of douby saying that it was the best shooting he had ever had in the workouts... With that im sure Petrie figured that they could maybe make him into a point guard.. To bad for Douby..
 
#8
Drafting Douby was stupid, but if you believe Jerry it was done because he put on a shooting display in a private workout. Given Geoff's traditional overemphasis on shooting as a skillset, it was probably predictable.

As an aside, it is irrelevant how many of the entire draft class turned out to be stars, what was relevant was that we tried to draft a PG, and right there available with him there was a far far better prospect in Rondo, who was scooped up 2 picks later.
Rondo is a better player...but as previous posters have said, would he really have developed into the player he is now on any other team? Even now, if you can put him on a nonplayoff team where he has to carry a team, how well do you think he'll do? All you have to do is play off of him, because he's still not a good shooter.

Every draft has its "sleepers", those that you look back and wonder how could 20 GMs pass up on the guy. Should we blame every GM who's ever passed up on a sleeper? Then you can blame every GM in the NBA, because all of them have done it. No GM is perfect all the time in the draft, and neither is Petrie.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#9
People were also furious that he didn't draft Marcus Williams. Yeah. Tough year.

I also wonder how Rondo would have fared had he come to the Kings. He really was blessed with the absolute perfect scenario for his abilities, but if he had come here we would have needed him to provide offense, and I think he would have looked like a disappointment in that area.
Totally agree. But it would have been a nice experiment to try, wouldn't it?:)
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#10
Drafting Douby was stupid, but if you believe Jerry it was done because he put on a shooting display in a private workout. Given Geoff's traditional overemphasis on shooting as a skillset, it was probably predictable.

As an aside, it is irrelevant how many of the entire draft class turned out to be stars, what was relevant was that we tried to draft a PG, and right there available with him there was a far far better prospect in Rondo, who was scooped up 2 picks later.
I think had to do less with an overemphasis on shooting than an overemphasis on a private workout. If the guy could really shoot, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. I'd like to know how many games they actually saw him play. Then I'd like to know how many games they saw in which he came up big in pressure situations in the second half. How many games did he win in college in the last four or five minutes? The Douby pick really reminds me of NFL teams that put so much on skills tests and not enough on actual game performance.
 
#11
I think had to do less with an overemphasis on shooting than an overemphasis on a private workout. If the guy could really shoot, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. I'd like to know how many games they actually saw him play. Then I'd like to know how many games they saw in which he came up big in pressure situations in the second half. How many games did he win in college in the last four or five minutes? The Douby pick really reminds me of NFL teams that put so much on skills tests and not enough on actual game performance.
The thing is, regardless of how much stock they put in the workout vs. the actual games, I watched him in college and he was awesome. He put a terrible team on his back and took them to a winning season. He scored inside and out, and was able to still put up numbers and a good shooting percentage even though he was the focus of every opposing defense. He stepped up in big games, including 41 points against Syracuse.

Basically it just goes to show: you just never know with the draft.

EDIT: Here are some flashes I found so you can see what I'm talking about. Watch him bombing 3's against Villanova: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ2OBxPnxM8 He outscored the whole Villanova team in the early going, and they had Kyle Lowry and Randy Foye.
 
Last edited:

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#12
I watched him too in college -- and he was not awesome, at least not ins the sense of being an awesome NAB prospect. He was a short gunner. An awesome college player, but the absolute 100% classic guy who flops in the NBA. 6'2" SG. Whoopee. And a gunner too -- the worst kind, who get to dominate the ball and just come on down and chuck it up 30 times a game -- something they will never never never get a chance to do in the NBA.

But he could alsways shoot in college -- the workout was not a fluke in that regard. Put him in an empty gym, match him up against 6'1" guys with an anthropology final tommorow, and he's a great shooter. So was JJ reddick. It just does not work. A guy either has to have the size to play his natural positon or the mentality/skills to play the positon hsi body dictates. Douby never did. Not in college. Not in that workout -- shooting is NOT the primary PG skill. And not in the NBA.

And Rondo was hardly a sleeper -- there were a lot of people on this board calling for him to be drafted instead. Turns out they had a better read on it than Geoff did. Rondo might not be a star outside of Boston, but wiht his defense and physical skills he would damn sure be a useful player no matter who drafted him. Remember he had already started to blossom enough BEFORE the Celtics revival (when they were every bit as bad as we are today) that they gambled on turning over the team to him when Garnett and Co. arrived.
 
Last edited:
#13
Drafting Douby was stupid, but if you believe Jerry it was done because he put on a shooting display in a private workout. Given Geoff's traditional overemphasis on shooting as a skillset, it was probably predictable.

As an aside, it is irrelevant how many of the entire draft class turned out to be stars, what was relevant was that we tried to draft a PG, and right there available with him there was a far far better prospect in Rondo, who was scooped up 2 picks later.
Drafting Douby was bad, but I'm not sure that us drafting Rondo would have been terribly better. I'm still not really impressed with Rondo's game. He's great for the Celtics, as he fills his role to a T, but his role and development would have been markedly different in a Kings uniform than it has been in Boston. Rondo is a much better defender than Douby, but other than that, I'm not too certain their skills are that much different from each other.

Farmar, on the other hand, while he wouldn't have come along quite like he has with the Lakers, would still be a pretty decent player, I think. Being in Southern Cal and seeing Farmar play for years at UCLA, I've always been upset that Petrie didn't take him instead of Douby.
 
#14
EDIT: Here are some flashes I found so you can see what I'm talking about. Watch him bombing 3's against Villanova: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ2OBxPnxM8 He outscored the whole Villanova team in the early going, and they had Kyle Lowry and Randy Foye.
Damn...he looked so confident with those shots and they were from crazy distance. I think he really could have come out a Ben Gordon type player but it just never panned out.
 
#15
I watched him too in college -- and he was not awesome, at least not ins the sense of being an awesome NAB prospect. He was a short gunner. An awesome college player, but the absolute 100% classic guy who flops in the NBA. 6'2" SG. Whoopee.

But he could alsways shoot in college -- the workout was not a fluke in that regard. Put him in an empty gym, match him up against 6'1" guys with an anthropology final tommorow, and he's a great shooter. So was JJ reddick. It just does not work. A guy either has to have the size to play his natural positon or the mentality/skills to play the positon hsi body dictates. Douby never did. Not in college. Not in that workout -- shooting is NOT the primary PG skill. And not in the NBA.

And Rondo was hardly a sleeper -- there were a lot of people on this board calling for him to be drafted instead. Turns out they had a better read on it than Geoff did. Rondo might not be a star outside of Boston, but wiht his defense and physical skills he would damn sure be a useful player no matter who drafted him. Remember he had already started to blossom enough BEFORE the Celtics revival (when they were every bit as bad as we are today) that they gambled on turning over the team to him when Garnett and Co. arrived.
Well, I don't think with the 19th pick the intention was for Douby to be anything more than a gunning combo guard off the bench, which he was properly sized and skilled for. The one main question mark was his ballhandling, which he never really seemed to improve. Turned out "shooting in NBA games" was another question mark. Whoops.

But other than that I agree with you -- the problem with watching too many college games is that when you like the way a guy plays you start to forget the "rules" of the NBA, namely that first and foremost you have to have proper size and athleticism for your position. Douby was simply too small to be a shooting guard and didn't develop any semblence of PG skills. Even if he HAD hit his shots he would have been severely limited unless he had developed his skills enough to be a passable backup point guard. I was impressed with how he put that team on his back and scored no matter what, but all that stuff ultimately doesn't matter much.

And I still think it's an open question about how much Rondo would have thrived with the Kings. At the time the bench was so severely limited offensively (this was the Jason Hart era) that I don't know we really would have impressed with his skills. Surely he would have been better than what we had and better than Douby, but it's hard to imagine a scenario where he would thrive the way he is now surrounded by three HOFs and not expected to score a single point.

EDIT: Also agree with Superman that in retrospect Farmar probably would have had the best chance at turning out to be a solid choice for the Kings given the roster and his skills.
 
Last edited:
#16
Farmar has to be one of the luckiest guys, he goes from taft high school in LA, to UCLA to lakers. Has anybody been that lucky to play at home all the time.
 
#17
I didn't like the Douby pick, but I think the jury is still out on him. A combination of a bad team with too many "me first" players, coaches who don't know how to use him and his declining confidence contributed to his less than stellar play.

I still think he can be a good player on the right team. He'll never be a star, or even a starter; but I definitely think he can strive in the league as a Devin Brown/Luther Head type. I think his career with the Kings would turn out a lot different and this pick less scrutinized, if Adelman is still the coach. Anyway, I wish him luck.

Speaking of Rondo, those small quick guards who have questionable jump shots and aren't pure playmaker sure are capable of surprising the pundits, don't they? On the flip side, how many big, slow PG with pure playmaking skill and mediocre offense have strived? Just something to thing about as we approach the frenzy of a certain Euro PG.
 
#18
I wonder if drafting Quincy Douby, and the lessons learned there effected Geoffe's decision to draft Jason Thompson. Perhaps he didn't want to reach to a projected 2nd rounder in Jordan Farmar, and stuck with the perceived "safer" pick. With the failings of this, it could have changed his philosophy and he drafted the best player available, regardless of how he was projected, ending in the Kings finding their PF for the rebuild.

I'm also curious as to the effect of the coaching changes on Quincy. If confidence was such an issue, and he wasn't sure when he was going to play or how he was going to be used, couldn't having 3 coaches in 3 years shatter some of that necessary confidence.
 
#19
If anything I think the Lakers are holding Farmar back. Farmar is an up tempo PG (pnr, drive and kick) pure and simple, he would be perfect under D'Antoni or Nelson, not the triangle offense. He's inconsistent with his offensive aggression and defense effort, and his decision making is not great. He's a good set shooter, good passer off the dribble, and he's quick in the open court. I fully expect the Lakers to trade him eventually if Phil/triangle is staying there after next year.

I actually liked Douby at the time (admittedly I did not know as much about the game back then as I do now, I was enamored with his stats) but not for us. Rondo was number 1 on my list, then Williams, then Rodriguez, and then Farmar. Rondo would have done as well with us as he would have with a great team like the Celtics, but come on the kid is still extremely talented and lacks only one real skill, in his shooting. He's a taller Brevin Knight and that's complimentary. He would've been a very good player to have. Marcus Williams? Bust, not motivated enough, not athletic enough, and didn't shoot well enough to make up for it. Rodriguez? I think he still has quite a bit of potential as long as he gets an opportunity.
 
#20
If anything I think the Lakers are holding Farmar back. Farmar is an up tempo PG (pnr, drive and kick) pure and simple, he would be perfect under D'Antoni or Nelson, not the triangle offense. He's inconsistent with his offensive aggression and defense effort, and his decision making is not great. He's a good set shooter, good passer off the dribble, and he's quick in the open court. I fully expect the Lakers to trade him eventually if Phil/triangle is staying there after next year.
If the Lakers trade Jordan Farmar, they're stupid. Maybe he's not your prototypical triangle point guard, but he's still a good player who contributes on both ends of the floor.

So I hope the Lakers do get rid of Farmar. But they won't.

I actually liked Douby at the time (admittedly I did not know as much about the game back then as I do now, I was enamored with his stats) but not for us. Rondo was number 1 on my list, then Williams, then Rodriguez, and then Farmar. Rondo would have done as well with us as he would have with a great team like the Celtics, but come on the kid is still extremely talented and lacks only one real skill, in his shooting. He's a taller Brevin Knight and that's complimentary. He would've been a very good player to have. Marcus Williams? Bust, not motivated enough, not athletic enough, and didn't shoot well enough to make up for it. Rodriguez? I think he still has quite a bit of potential as long as he gets an opportunity.
I have major questions about his playmaking ability, his ball-handling, and his basketball IQ. Still. When you play with three perennial All Stars, you don't have to do as much. Yeah, he plays the most important position on the floor, but when you have the luxury of playing with three guys who can create their own shot whenever they need to, the point guard position becomes less critical. Rondo still makes questionable decisions, even at his best. And he's a liability in the half court offense because he doesn't have a consistent jumpshot.

That said, he just turned 23 years old. His experience of playing on this team is the best experience he could have ever hoped for as a young point guard, but I'm not sold on Rondo as a good point guard.
 
#21
Well, I don't expect them to trade him for nothing, I expect them to use him as a valuable trade chip to get a piece that fits more of what they're looking for at that position. I don't see Farmar fitting with them as a starting PG, he simply does not fit the system and he lacks the decision making ability and half-court playmaking skills. He's still useful for them, especially when all they have outside of him is Derek Fisher (really a SG) and Sun Yue (not nearly ready to contribute in the NBA).
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#22
The reason the Douby pick is so hard to stomach is that it was obvious there were better options at the time. Anyone reasonably aware of what the Kings were doing that season could see that Bibby was on the way out which made PG a position of need and we got lucky that year in that there were a lot of late first round PG prospects. Somehow Geoff inexplicably passed on all of them.

On Rajon Rondo in particular, he was absolutely dominant in High School but had a weak season at Kentucky which dropped his draft stock into the mid-late first round. Given his history and unique skillset, I had him pegged early on as one of the top 10 players in the draft. His best skill was clearly his defense and he had the potential to be the best defense PG in the NBA. On top of that his rebounding numbers were astronomical for a point guard. His shooting was probably always going to be inconsistent, but he was such a good scorer in high school that I had a feeling he would find ways to score regardless. It's probably true that he wouldn't have been as immediately succesful in Sacramento as he has been in Boston with the big three around him, however his defense and rebounding were there from the beginning and given the weaknesses of our roster, if we could gain an advantage in defense and rebounding at PG it would somewhat mitigate our weakness in the front line. In other words, Rondo was a perfect fit. That's why I'm still mad about it. I thought he was a no-brainer pick for us and instead we picked a guy that most teams had ranked in the second round.

Douby was a great scorer in college but the typical red flags were there. He was an above average defender, but lacked the necessary physical attributes to be a good defender in the NBA. He had no business running an offense (unless running an offense means taking 25 shots per game) so expecting him to stick as a backup PG was a stretch. There was no chance he would ever cut it as a starting PG. His ceiling was Ben Gordon, but how effective has Ben Gordon really been in the NBA? His best season was his rookie season when he won the sixth man award for his regular fourth quarter scoring blitz. He's still giving the Bulls nothing but scoring and they've underperformed as long as he's been a part of the rotation which is probably why he hasn't been signed yet. Drafting him where Geoff did was a risk, and it might have worked out if the team wasn't in a position of trying to compete for the playoffs. Douby was never given enough playing time to find a regular role and his shot-chucking tendencies kept him on a short lease with all of the coaches which passed through here. He had a chance to stick on a last place team which let him loose (like Memphis has done with Mayo this season) but that's never been the case in Sacramento (even this season for some bizarre reason) which makes Geoff's reach to snag him even more inexplicable.

Actually, in regards to the original article, I think the whole thesis is BS. He wants to somehow excuse Geoff for picking Douby because the three guys from that draft who ended up passing through Sacramento (Simmons, Douby, Williams) all happened to be busts. Shelden Williams had just as many red flags as Douby because his dominant skill (shotblocking) was unlikely to translate to the NBA given his height and reach. He was ineffecient offensively even in college and Atlanta was openly mocked by pretty much everyone for taking him fifth. Simmons is a typical mid first round big man pick who wasn't talented enough to go in the lottery, but had enough potential for someone to take a chance on him. There's a half dozen of those guys every year. The guys from that draft who did stick haven't been made available by the teams who drafted them so the fact that everyone else's garbage passes through Sacramento first on their way out of the league proves nothing.

Now, looking at the rest of the draft, I think there is clearly a lack of star players but there's a lot of very good talent. Roy is a star with the right personality and work-ethic to become a superstar in the near future (if he isn't one already). Bargnani has been a disappointment so far, but shooting big men always seem to develop slowly and he's had some big games lately. I think the jury is still out on him. He was risky as a first overall pick anyway (Toronto is probably the only team that would have done it because of their preference for international players), but I think the return so far has been about even with most reasonable expectations. Aldridge is a terrific young PF who could start on a lot of NBA teams. He's still too in love with his jumpshot, but he's a good rebounder and a tough player. And he does make that jumpshot consistently. Tyrus Thomas, Randy Foye, and Rudy Gay are all showing signs of reaching their potential now that they've been granted starting spots. Daniel Gibson was an expected first round pick who slipped and made good in Cleveland. Paul Milsap was that year's Boozer that everyone seemed to miss. And looking up and down the rest of the draft, there's a lot more bench players than busts. Even if the draft was weak on star players in the top 15, a lot of talent was to be had even into the second round so our selection of Douby -- who couldn't find a regular role on the worst roster in the league -- still qualifies as an epic misjudgement I think. Particularly when Petrie passed on a lot of more obvious talents to pick him.

For as long as I've followed the draft, Rajon Rondo was the biggest no-brainer pick we've ever been in a position to make. I fully reserve the right to say "I told you so" on that one.

EDIT: Which reminds me, I've thought for some time now that looking back at drafts to gauge how successful your predictions were is a foolhardy enterprise. Whether a prospect reaches his "potential" has a lot to do with the team situation they're plugged into, the attitudes of the coaching staff and front office, the fortunes of that team in the following four years (whether they are competing for the playoffs or not) and all sorts of other unpredictable external factors. Maybe Geoff was right about Douby's talent and he would have turned into a solid player in a different situation. Let's say we picked Rondo and Boston picked Douby. Maybe Rondo ends up in the doghouse until he works on his shooting and loses confidence. Maybe Boston doesn't make the trades for KG and Ray Allen because they don't have a PG to run the show. Maybe Douby becomes the man on a last place Boston team. Who knows what could have happened? Just because a player couldn't make it on the team which originally drafted them doesn't mean they couldn't have made it on any other team.
 
Last edited:
#23
Drafting Douby was stupid, but if you believe Jerry it was done because he put on a shooting display in a private workout. Given Geoff's traditional overemphasis on shooting as a skillset, it was probably predictable.

As an aside, it is irrelevant how many of the entire draft class turned out to be stars, what was relevant was that we tried to draft a PG, and right there available with him there was a far far better prospect in Rondo, who was scooped up 2 picks later.
I agree with Brick here. I will defend Petrie to the death when he is being unfairly targeted, but in this case, Rondo was the better choice. He should have been a lottery pick who mysteriously slipped. I am guessing Petrie did not draft him because he had gotten burned drating Wallace over Arenas the one time he broke his own rule of drafting players he had never brought in to work out prior to the draft.
 
#24
?

"Tough-minded kid, likes to be challenged and likes to take over the game. Has a "bring it on" attitude and loves to show people he can play. This attitude is what makes him good and is something you can't teach. Could be a big-time scorer at the next level. Super confident and has a scorer's cockiness that many players wish they had."

http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=18971
The problem with all of this analysis is that there are aspects of player development that have nothing to do with past performance. KMart and Garcia both have been known to work hard over the off seasons. They have both improved weaknesses to their game. Douby may have had the same potential. However, what has he improved over the last 3 years. His ball handling is still very poor, his jumper did not improve, his defense did not improve, his playmaking ability did not improve. He marginally improve his runner. I don't remember reading the same pieces about Douby's summer work outs as some of the other players.

I wanted Rondo at the time and there's no doubt in my mind his ceiling was/is high than Douby. However, it's very possible that Petrie misread Douby's desire and work ethic more than his overall talent.
 
#25
People were also furious that he didn't draft Marcus Williams. Yeah. Tough year.

I also wonder how Rondo would have fared had he come to the Kings. He really was blessed with the absolute perfect scenario for his abilities, but if he had come here we would have needed him to provide offense, and I think he would have looked like a disappointment in that area.
Remember my 5:00 to Marcus Williams thread? :D

I really think he can still turn into a decent player if really given a chance, but maybe his attitude or somethng got in the way. I know he had issues with that.

Anyhow, Williams, or Douby we probably wouldn't have either anymore so no big.
 
#26
The problem with all of this analysis is that there are aspects of player development that have nothing to do with past performance. KMart and Garcia both have been known to work hard over the off seasons. They have both improved weaknesses to their game. Douby may have had the same potential. However, what has he improved over the last 3 years. His ball handling is still very poor, his jumper did not improve, his defense did not improve, his playmaking ability did not improve. He marginally improve his runner. I don't remember reading the same pieces about Douby's summer work outs as some of the other players.
Martin and Garcia both got playing time on a somewhat consistent basis (Martin actually played under Adelman for two seasons). Douby didn't have that luxury.

I was never impressed by Douby, so I don't know what to say, but I'm not convinced Rondo would have really been any better.
 
#27
The reason I screamed when we drafted Douby wasn't because I thought he was a bad player, I thought he was just dead wrong for our team.

Drafting the BPA pans out if you need the player concerned, or if you're going to play them and develop them enough to have trade value. Otherwise, they just turn out wasted -- like Gerald Wallace was as a King.

We didn't need a small SG, we had just drafted 2 SGs in a row. We desperately needed bigs and a PG. Douby was buried deep enough in the rotation that he'd have to be amazing to ever give us any trade value, and he wasn't amazing. So he ended up worthless to us.

Had we drafted someone like Rondo, we might not have gotten someone who was a much better player overall, but they'd have done us good, and they'd still be on our roster. They'd not have been worthless.

I really hope that this year's draft pick gets us someone who we'll play.
 
#28
Any draft where Shelden Williams is picked 5th is bad LOL. However, here are some of the players that were picked within 7 picks after Douby:

Rajon Rondo
Kyle Lowry
Jordan Farmar
Marcus Williams
 
#29
The reason I screamed when we drafted Douby wasn't because I thought he was a bad player, I thought he was just dead wrong for our team.

Drafting the BPA pans out if you need the player concerned, or if you're going to play them and develop them enough to have trade value. Otherwise, they just turn out wasted -- like Gerald Wallace was as a King.

We didn't need a small SG, we had just drafted 2 SGs in a row. We desperately needed bigs and a PG. Douby was buried deep enough in the rotation that he'd have to be amazing to ever give us any trade value, and he wasn't amazing. So he ended up worthless to us.

Had we drafted someone like Rondo, we might not have gotten someone who was a much better player overall, but they'd have done us good, and they'd still be on our roster. They'd not have been worthless.

I really hope that this year's draft pick gets us someone who we'll play.
my thoughts exactly. i felt we didnt need to draft another sg since we already had martin and garcia. everyone knew that we needed a pg...well i thought everyone knew. whether we picked rondo, farmar or marcus williams, i believe they would have at least gotten off the bench since bibby was getting up there in age and i believe he was even hurt that following year.
 
#30
I have major questions about his playmaking ability, his ball-handling, and his basketball IQ. Still. When you play with three perennial All Stars, you don't have to do as much. Yeah, he plays the most important position on the floor, but when you have the luxury of playing with three guys who can create their own shot whenever they need to, the point guard position becomes less critical. Rondo still makes questionable decisions, even at his best. And he's a liability in the half court offense because he doesn't have a consistent jumpshot.

That said, he just turned 23 years old. His experience of playing on this team is the best experience he could have ever hoped for as a young point guard, but I'm not sold on Rondo as a good point guard.
Totally disagree. Rondo has the playmaking ability--the guy averages 8.5 assists this year on an average paced team--and this was already known out of college. He came in billed as a pure point guard, perhaps by necessity because he wasn't the greatest scorer, but his court vision had always appealed to me as he is really a master at the drive and kick and knows how to get the ball to the right people. Kentucky really repressed him--a lot--and his disappointment caused him to declare for the draft in his sophomore year. Even out of the draft day he was perceived as a very athletic guard with length, with very great stealing ability and defensive potential, as well as great rebounding ability (6.1 rpg as a sophomore) and passing ability. His athletic markers were through the roof, and what was more impressive was that unlike many, he made use of them BOTH offensively and defensively in college. And in terms of skills, he could already pass really well, and he can really finish around the basket and what's more, has the athletic ability, ballhandling skills and the speed to get there in the first place. He's fought half the battle and then some--he's not really the liability offensively many are making him out to be when he can slash and pass, and his defense has few if any holes. In fact, looking over this thread I really agree with what hrdboild said about Rondo. The only thing that was missing was shooting--but that's the easiest to learn, and if not it's cheap to get a backup PG who can shoot anyway. So he was young, and there was already loads of intrigue. I really, really wanted him.

Rondo actually exemplifies the player I would like to draft--draft players who possess combinations of skills/physical tools that few playing his position possess in the NBA. It's a really rare case to find that sort of player, but Rondo had that athleticism/defense/passing combination that was already hard to find coming out of the draft. In fact, I saw something similar in Russell Westbrook just in this year's draft, and had we gotten a higher pick I would be all for getting him. The fact is, Rondo fit the point guard mold already with his superior passing ability anyway. Scoring is commonplace, you can fill that out with other players. When those players come around, you pounce on them. Of course, the other player I would like to draft is far more common--drafting players with athleticism, potential, and excel in two or more skills that can translate well to the NBA.

As for any other team--would Rondo thrive there? I think he would. He can definitely orchestrate a team, and despite opponents sagging off him daring him to shoot all the time, it helps when you have the physical tools, quickness and decision making to even get to the basket in that scenario. Sure he gets turnovers, but nonetheless he posts a very good assist per turnover ratio. That defense was already there even before the Celts started winning, and he was amassing steals at a high rate with his long wingspan and knack for anticipation. So even while he can't score, his ability to keep the offense running and play smart D would've endeared him to many coaches. Even Mike D'Antoni might like him as a run and gun type who can actually D up on the other end, despite his inability to shoot. And he's fairly disciplined and doesn't get overly out of control as well; seems like he has a level head.

In fact, I think he's the x-factor for the Celtics team; if he gets injured somehow, they're really done. Not only does he involve himself in every assist and bring in the smothering D, there's no legitimate backup for him on that team.

...This thread is really about Quincy Douby and Geoff's drafting strategies, and we've talked about it many times; seems like every time Quincy has been brought up, I've floated Rondo's name over and over again.
 
Last edited: