Don't Sleep On B-Mac....Here's Why:
- Thread starter Blob
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I guess that is because Jason Jones first wrote an article where he mentioned that the Kings FO tried to move Mclemore over the summer (which is no news). Zach Harper then wrote an article quoting Jones' article. Jason than replied with the tweets that the coaching staff likes Mclmeore which is also no news. So in the end, nothing new to see here.
I really think Ben could still develop into a solid to great roleplayer. Never an allstar, but one of those 10-12ppg with good defense kinda players that every team needs.
If Joerger and staff have him focusing and have a role planned out, he could still amount to something.
We shall see, but good coaching is crucial. Karl was trash last season. Everybody underachieved.
If Joerger and staff have him focusing and have a role planned out, he could still amount to something.
We shall see, but good coaching is crucial. Karl was trash last season. Everybody underachieved.
You're entitled to your opinion, but having $8 mil in extra cap space is not a lateral move. Sure, Koufos vs. Splitter might be a wash this season, but not spending $8 mil for a backup C when we already have two backup Cs on rookie deals is valuable. That's an extra $8 mil to upgrade other positions of need next year. That's not really debatable.
Why are 2nd rounders meaningless? I always find it funny when people (such as yourself) deal in such absolutes... A 2nd rounder has value. The amount of the value is up for debate.
And as "slight" as the improvement of the protection is, it still holds value especially when we're projected to top out as a fringe playoff team. That's right around 12. Utah had a 40 win season last year and finished with the 12th worst record. If the Kings finish with a 40 win season, miss the playoffs, and keep their 1st round pick, they'd be in pretty good shape. They'd look more attractive to FAs due to being around .500 & they still get to keep their 1st rounder and continue adding young assets (making them appear even more promising or giving us another trade chip).
Like I mentioned, I'm okay with keeping McLemore. It's hard for us to comment how he is doing in the offseason since we don't see all of the work he is doing in the offseason. I'm sure the coaches & FO have much, much, much more knowledge than your 500lb deadlift video and are weighing (no pun intended) the potential upside of McLemore breaking out this year.
The thing is, McLemore has always been a gym rat. He's been known to constantly be working on his game, but his mentality seems to be the thing holding him back. You need the right mentality & the right work ethic to be successful in this league. Right now, it looks like McLemore only has one of those things. I'm hopeful he shows us something this season and I'll be rooting my a** off if we decide to hold onto him this season.
Why are 2nd rounders meaningless? I always find it funny when people (such as yourself) deal in such absolutes... A 2nd rounder has value. The amount of the value is up for debate.
And as "slight" as the improvement of the protection is, it still holds value especially when we're projected to top out as a fringe playoff team. That's right around 12. Utah had a 40 win season last year and finished with the 12th worst record. If the Kings finish with a 40 win season, miss the playoffs, and keep their 1st round pick, they'd be in pretty good shape. They'd look more attractive to FAs due to being around .500 & they still get to keep their 1st rounder and continue adding young assets (making them appear even more promising or giving us another trade chip).
Like I mentioned, I'm okay with keeping McLemore. It's hard for us to comment how he is doing in the offseason since we don't see all of the work he is doing in the offseason. I'm sure the coaches & FO have much, much, much more knowledge than your 500lb deadlift video and are weighing (no pun intended) the potential upside of McLemore breaking out this year.
The thing is, McLemore has always been a gym rat. He's been known to constantly be working on his game, but his mentality seems to be the thing holding him back. You need the right mentality & the right work ethic to be successful in this league. Right now, it looks like McLemore only has one of those things. I'm hopeful he shows us something this season and I'll be rooting my a** off if we decide to hold onto him this season.
As an early critic of our poor play at SG - my comments starting early in the season before last - I am now relatively happy about the situation at starting SG. In all that time I called for us to get another starter but nothing happened until the offseason when we acquired Afflalo. What happens with Ben is no longer a concern for me. I assume if he gets minutes he will have earned them, if not, so be it. I wish him well but no minutes here unless he's earned them and I don't expect that to happen much nor for very long. Good luck Ben wherever you go.
Koufos has a good contract so unless you are getting value back, why be interested in clearing his deal off the cap? He can return us some good assets not just an expiring in Splitter. I don't think Koufos played well last year, but he's young (26), a capable starter, and underpaid. And you want to clear space? No. And a 2nd round pick is effectively worthless in the context we are discussing....there's less than 10% chance that a player drafted in the 40s or 50s amounts to anything, and thats after 2-3 years of seasoning. Sure you may catch lightening in a bottle and get the next Isaiah, but at the expense of giving away Ben who may finally amount to something at the "advanced age" of 23. That is a terrible risk-reward proposition, particularly in light of the recent glowing reports.
Would it really shock anyone if Ben was traded and he has trouble getting any playing time with his next team....similar to Jason Thompson? Any quote coming out now saying the new staff is excited about Ben might be fluff designed to build value because bringing in a stable of new SGs means you don't want to retain the old ones.
$8 mil in cap space is more valuable to us than Koufos. Do you disagree? I'd specifically like to hear your argument against this point.
I don't necessarily agree that he is underpaid. I think his contract is market value. His current contract is equivalent to $5.5-$6 mil under the old CBA. That seems on par. And considering guys like Ezeli, T. Zeller, Marjanovic, A. Jefferson, Aldrich, & M. Leonard, are all between $7-$10 mil a year, I think it helps confirm that belief. People like to look at Mozgov and think "Wow, Koufos is on a great deal! He has so much value!" When in fact, the Lakers made a horrible signing and overpaid drastically. I'm curious to why you think a C who's only averaged over 20 MPG one time in his 8 year career is underpaid at $8 mil per year?
Thank you for acknowledging that a 2nd round pick has value (although not a lot). I'm glad I'm starting to mold your absolute mindset
. However, you're forgetting adding more protection to our 1st rounder. This trade could be the 11th/12th pick in the 2017 draft, a 2017 2nd round pick, & $8 mil in cap space for Koufos & McLemore. Keep in mind that I said "could." I think everyone would do that deal in a heartbeat, but the possibility of us conveying the pick anyway or falling in the bottom 10 makes the deal more reasonable.
The risk if we don't do the trade:
I don't necessarily agree that he is underpaid. I think his contract is market value. His current contract is equivalent to $5.5-$6 mil under the old CBA. That seems on par. And considering guys like Ezeli, T. Zeller, Marjanovic, A. Jefferson, Aldrich, & M. Leonard, are all between $7-$10 mil a year, I think it helps confirm that belief. People like to look at Mozgov and think "Wow, Koufos is on a great deal! He has so much value!" When in fact, the Lakers made a horrible signing and overpaid drastically. I'm curious to why you think a C who's only averaged over 20 MPG one time in his 8 year career is underpaid at $8 mil per year?
Thank you for acknowledging that a 2nd round pick has value (although not a lot). I'm glad I'm starting to mold your absolute mindset
. However, you're forgetting adding more protection to our 1st rounder. This trade could be the 11th/12th pick in the 2017 draft, a 2017 2nd round pick, & $8 mil in cap space for Koufos & McLemore. Keep in mind that I said "could." I think everyone would do that deal in a heartbeat, but the possibility of us conveying the pick anyway or falling in the bottom 10 makes the deal more reasonable.The risk if we don't do the trade:
- We have $8 mil less to spend next offseason and could miss out on a FA we want
- We risk not getting value back for McLemore
- We risk conveying our 1st round pick
- McLemore breaks out and increases his value
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I think his ceiling is definitely not as high as it used to be, but it's pretty decent. I'd say a #3 scorer with 17ppg 4rebs. Maybe a rich 3&D type player.
I think his middle line could definitely be a Courtney Lee.
For some odd reason, Courtney Lee seems to be really overrated. Memphis trades him away for pennies and he's never proved to be anything more than a solid SG. Not super quick nor athletic. Decent handles. Meh playmaking. Defense is above average though. He's a prototypical 3&D SG. At this point, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Ben to end up better than Lee.
I think his middle line could definitely be a Courtney Lee.
For some odd reason, Courtney Lee seems to be really overrated. Memphis trades him away for pennies and he's never proved to be anything more than a solid SG. Not super quick nor athletic. Decent handles. Meh playmaking. Defense is above average though. He's a prototypical 3&D SG. At this point, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Ben to end up better than Lee.
$8 mil in cap space is more valuable to us than Koufos. Do you disagree? I'd specifically like to hear your argument against this point.
I don't necessarily agree that he is underpaid. I think his contract is market value. His current contract is equivalent to $5.5-$6 mil under the old CBA. That seems on par. And considering guys like Ezeli, T. Zeller, Marjanovic, A. Jefferson, Aldrich, & M. Leonard, are all between $7-$10 mil a year, I think it helps confirm that belief. People like to look at Mozgov and think "Wow, Koufos is on a great deal! He has so much value!" When in fact, the Lakers made a horrible signing and overpaid drastically. I'm curious to why you think a C who's only averaged over 20 MPG one time in his 8 year career is underpaid at $8 mil per year?
Thank you for acknowledging that a 2nd round pick has value (although not a lot). I'm glad I'm starting to mold your absolute mindset. However, you're forgetting adding more protection to our 1st rounder. This trade could be the 11th/12th pick in the 2017 draft, a 2017 2nd round pick, & $8 mil in cap space for Koufos & McLemore. Keep in mind that I said "could." I think everyone would do that deal in a heartbeat, but the possibility of us conveying the pick anyway or falling in the bottom 10 makes the deal more reasonable.
The risk if we don't do the trade:
I don't necessarily agree that he is underpaid. I think his contract is market value. His current contract is equivalent to $5.5-$6 mil under the old CBA. That seems on par. And considering guys like Ezeli, T. Zeller, Marjanovic, A. Jefferson, Aldrich, & M. Leonard, are all between $7-$10 mil a year, I think it helps confirm that belief. People like to look at Mozgov and think "Wow, Koufos is on a great deal! He has so much value!" When in fact, the Lakers made a horrible signing and overpaid drastically. I'm curious to why you think a C who's only averaged over 20 MPG one time in his 8 year career is underpaid at $8 mil per year?
Thank you for acknowledging that a 2nd round pick has value (although not a lot). I'm glad I'm starting to mold your absolute mindset
. However, you're forgetting adding more protection to our 1st rounder. This trade could be the 11th/12th pick in the 2017 draft, a 2017 2nd round pick, & $8 mil in cap space for Koufos & McLemore. Keep in mind that I said "could." I think everyone would do that deal in a heartbeat, but the possibility of us conveying the pick anyway or falling in the bottom 10 makes the deal more reasonable.The risk if we don't do the trade:
- We have $8 mil less to spend next offseason and could miss out on a FA we want
- We risk not getting value back for McLemore
- We risk conveying our 1st round pick
- McLemore breaks out and increases his value
I appreciate your passion but I am not interested in the minutiae of a bad trade idea. I made my position on Ben clear. Its not necessary to try to parse my words or analysis. The guy has a chance, a 50/50 chance to take a significant step forward as a late bloomer with a new coaching new PG and new level of confidence and strength. This is my opinion that lies in contradiction with 80-90% of those who say he is basically done as a King resigned to towel waving status. The tweets by Jason Jones support this opinion, but I didn't wait for tweet from the beat reporter to formulate an opinion that suddenly has more merit, now did I? Koufos is 27 years old and can do respectable job as a starter for half the teams in the league. And you want to ship both of them for cap space, next to meaningless 2nd round pick, next to irrelevant level of protection on 2017 pick. This team needs to increase its talent base. Not bleed talent for a bag of chips, a hope and a prayer.
$8 mil in cap space is more valuable to us than Koufos. Do you disagree? I'd specifically like to hear your argument against this point.
I don't necessarily agree that he is underpaid. I think his contract is market value. His current contract is equivalent to $5.5-$6 mil under the old CBA. That seems on par. And considering guys like Ezeli, T. Zeller, Marjanovic, A. Jefferson, Aldrich, & M. Leonard, are all between $7-$10 mil a year, I think it helps confirm that belief. People like to look at Mozgov and think "Wow, Koufos is on a great deal! He has so much value!" When in fact, the Lakers made a horrible signing and overpaid drastically. I'm curious to why you think a C who's only averaged over 20 MPG one time in his 8 year career is underpaid at $8 mil per year?
Thank you for acknowledging that a 2nd round pick has value (although not a lot). I'm glad I'm starting to mold your absolute mindset. However, you're forgetting adding more protection to our 1st rounder. This trade could be the 11th/12th pick in the 2017 draft, a 2017 2nd round pick, & $8 mil in cap space for Koufos & McLemore. Keep in mind that I said "could." I think everyone would do that deal in a heartbeat, but the possibility of us conveying the pick anyway or falling in the bottom 10 makes the deal more reasonable.
The risk if we don't do the trade:
I don't necessarily agree that he is underpaid. I think his contract is market value. His current contract is equivalent to $5.5-$6 mil under the old CBA. That seems on par. And considering guys like Ezeli, T. Zeller, Marjanovic, A. Jefferson, Aldrich, & M. Leonard, are all between $7-$10 mil a year, I think it helps confirm that belief. People like to look at Mozgov and think "Wow, Koufos is on a great deal! He has so much value!" When in fact, the Lakers made a horrible signing and overpaid drastically. I'm curious to why you think a C who's only averaged over 20 MPG one time in his 8 year career is underpaid at $8 mil per year?
Thank you for acknowledging that a 2nd round pick has value (although not a lot). I'm glad I'm starting to mold your absolute mindset
. However, you're forgetting adding more protection to our 1st rounder. This trade could be the 11th/12th pick in the 2017 draft, a 2017 2nd round pick, & $8 mil in cap space for Koufos & McLemore. Keep in mind that I said "could." I think everyone would do that deal in a heartbeat, but the possibility of us conveying the pick anyway or falling in the bottom 10 makes the deal more reasonable.The risk if we don't do the trade:
- We have $8 mil less to spend next offseason and could miss out on a FA we want
- We risk not getting value back for McLemore
- We risk conveying our 1st round pick
- McLemore breaks out and increases his value
Perceptions might change in the next few weeks
$8 mil in cap space is more valuable to us than Koufos. Do you disagree? I'd specifically like to hear your argument against this point.
I don't necessarily agree that he is underpaid. I think his contract is market value. His current contract is equivalent to $5.5-$6 mil under the old CBA. That seems on par. And considering guys like Ezeli, T. Zeller, Marjanovic, A. Jefferson, Aldrich, & M. Leonard, are all between $7-$10 mil a year, I think it helps confirm that belief. People like to look at Mozgov and think "Wow, Koufos is on a great deal! He has so much value!" When in fact, the Lakers made a horrible signing and overpaid drastically. I'm curious to why you think a C who's only averaged over 20 MPG one time in his 8 year career is underpaid at $8 mil per year?
Thank you for acknowledging that a 2nd round pick has value (although not a lot). I'm glad I'm starting to mold your absolute mindset. However, you're forgetting adding more protection to our 1st rounder. This trade could be the 11th/12th pick in the 2017 draft, a 2017 2nd round pick, & $8 mil in cap space for Koufos & McLemore. Keep in mind that I said "could." I think everyone would do that deal in a heartbeat, but the possibility of us conveying the pick anyway or falling in the bottom 10 makes the deal more reasonable.
The risk if we don't do the trade:
I don't necessarily agree that he is underpaid. I think his contract is market value. His current contract is equivalent to $5.5-$6 mil under the old CBA. That seems on par. And considering guys like Ezeli, T. Zeller, Marjanovic, A. Jefferson, Aldrich, & M. Leonard, are all between $7-$10 mil a year, I think it helps confirm that belief. People like to look at Mozgov and think "Wow, Koufos is on a great deal! He has so much value!" When in fact, the Lakers made a horrible signing and overpaid drastically. I'm curious to why you think a C who's only averaged over 20 MPG one time in his 8 year career is underpaid at $8 mil per year?
Thank you for acknowledging that a 2nd round pick has value (although not a lot). I'm glad I'm starting to mold your absolute mindset
. However, you're forgetting adding more protection to our 1st rounder. This trade could be the 11th/12th pick in the 2017 draft, a 2017 2nd round pick, & $8 mil in cap space for Koufos & McLemore. Keep in mind that I said "could." I think everyone would do that deal in a heartbeat, but the possibility of us conveying the pick anyway or falling in the bottom 10 makes the deal more reasonable.The risk if we don't do the trade:
- We have $8 mil less to spend next offseason and could miss out on a FA we want
- We risk not getting value back for McLemore
- We risk conveying our 1st round pick
- McLemore breaks out and increases his value
I mean... we just handed out $8million to Garett Temple. No disrespect to Temple, but he's a pretty bad NBA player. So in turn, I could ask you if you'd rather have Koufos or Temple at $8million.
OR we could say that the $8million would be part of a bigger salary/cap space. Well... Vlade spent a total of $17 million on Temple-Tolliver. Again, it really depends on what Vlade decides to do with that cap space At this point, I don't know if I trust his judgement at GM yet. That pick swap is looking terrible.
In regards to the 2017 pick...........................I'm going to be upset if the Kings end up with ANOTHER non-top 5 lotto pick. If the Kings suck, can we at least do it right this time? I don't know about you....but I'd rather have a KAT, Porzingis, Okafor, or Russell over a WCS. I'd also rather have a Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Gordon, Exum over a Stauskas.
I actually think WCS in general, would fit best as a backup C. Him and Koufos don't mesh all that well, so I wouldn't mind if WCS took over his role. I just don't like what we get back for Koufos.
I feel like the entire focal point of your trade revolves around that lowered pick protection. I beg Vlade...........if we get a lotto pick again, please AT LEAST let it be in the top 5. Please?
Not surprised you dodged the questions. Let's just only focus on points that help support your argument...
You thinking it is a bad trade is just your opinion in the end and one driven by your belief that McLemore has a 50/50 shot. Where is this number coming from by the way? I would really like to see the math behind it.
Again, you're going off Instagram videos, reports that we do not know are true, and theories. I find it difficult to understand how someone could be so confident with such minuscule evidence especially when a lot of rumors/reports are released on purpose for alter opt motives. If the Kings are trying to trade McLemore, releasing reports that are saying he is looking good or we're excited about him could just be an effort to boost his trade value. I'm not saying this is the case but I'm also not ruling it out.
So I'm going to take that as you don't think $8 mil of cap space is worth more than Koufos. Very odd. I still don't really see a reason from you that explains why that is.
And just because you think the 2nd and pick protection is irrelevant doesn't make it so. Adding more protection to a 1st has value (especially when were projected to finish around that spot this year). Feel free to disregard the value. However it doesn't mean it's not there.
You thinking it is a bad trade is just your opinion in the end and one driven by your belief that McLemore has a 50/50 shot. Where is this number coming from by the way? I would really like to see the math behind it.
Again, you're going off Instagram videos, reports that we do not know are true, and theories. I find it difficult to understand how someone could be so confident with such minuscule evidence especially when a lot of rumors/reports are released on purpose for alter opt motives. If the Kings are trying to trade McLemore, releasing reports that are saying he is looking good or we're excited about him could just be an effort to boost his trade value. I'm not saying this is the case but I'm also not ruling it out.
So I'm going to take that as you don't think $8 mil of cap space is worth more than Koufos. Very odd. I still don't really see a reason from you that explains why that is.
And just because you think the 2nd and pick protection is irrelevant doesn't make it so. Adding more protection to a 1st has value (especially when were projected to finish around that spot this year). Feel free to disregard the value. However it doesn't mean it's not there.
You said going mainly off Summer league in the beginning and then changed your mind at the end. Which is it? Cauley-Stein looked more than capable against NBA competition last year. I'm not willing to put as much stock in a coach who did terrible last year and has a reputation for going away from rookies.
Besides, Splitter would give us the insurance if for some reason Cauley-Stein takes a major step back, if Cousins/Cauley-Stein get hurt, or if Papagiannis isn't ready to contribute.
When you have the best center in the NBA, you shouldn't be paying for a premium backup C. You should be using that money elsewhere (especially when you have 2 guys on rookie contracts who project to fill the backup role). Its simple roster management really.
Besides, Splitter would give us the insurance if for some reason Cauley-Stein takes a major step back, if Cousins/Cauley-Stein get hurt, or if Papagiannis isn't ready to contribute.
When you have the best center in the NBA, you shouldn't be paying for a premium backup C. You should be using that money elsewhere (especially when you have 2 guys on rookie contracts who project to fill the backup role). Its simple roster management really.
Sorry you're re not getting a top 5 pick in this draft without moving Cousins so that's pretty darn unrealistic unless you're in favor of pushing reset.
And I think everyone would prefer those players over WCS AND Stauskas but "wanting" a pick that low is not the secret ingredient we have missing to get one of those picks. Other teams don't give up this picks easily and like I mentioned before, we'll likely only get a top 5 pick next year if we're either very lucky in the lottery, Cousins gets hurt, or we trade into the top 5 by offering Cousins.
As for the $8mil in cap space, we're trying to make ourselves more attractive to FAs next year so comparing to who we just signed might not be the best comparison. With that in mind, we should be hopeful that we can lure some better FAs here. It may not happen but that's at least the strategy at this point. It also gives us space to absorb more money in a trade as well so if FAs aren't working out it can at least give us more flexibility when making trades.
And I think everyone would prefer those players over WCS AND Stauskas but "wanting" a pick that low is not the secret ingredient we have missing to get one of those picks. Other teams don't give up this picks easily and like I mentioned before, we'll likely only get a top 5 pick next year if we're either very lucky in the lottery, Cousins gets hurt, or we trade into the top 5 by offering Cousins.
As for the $8mil in cap space, we're trying to make ourselves more attractive to FAs next year so comparing to who we just signed might not be the best comparison. With that in mind, we should be hopeful that we can lure some better FAs here. It may not happen but that's at least the strategy at this point. It also gives us space to absorb more money in a trade as well so if FAs aren't working out it can at least give us more flexibility when making trades.
You sound like a lawyer. You took a position, a bad one, now you are defending it to the death! Instead of nit picking my opinions to the nth degree, a more constructive use of your time would be to come up with a better trade idea. Then I will shoot that one down too
You want to give away Ben for nothing, excuse me, next to nothing, and you want to give away a good back-up center in a salary dump. You want to bleed talent for cap space. I am glad you are not our GM since Adam Silver might demote our team to the D-League. A mid 2nd round pick by nature becomes 4th or 5th guy on the depth chart, that is, if he doesn't get cut in training camp. Saying the pick is next to worthless is generous of me. Its worthless! If a pick has a statistical probability of less than 5 or 10% of turning into a rotation player or a 90% or 95% chance of not working out, then I am going to remove the qualifier and declare it worthless.
I like to play the odds. It has worked for me. There is better than 10% chance that the light goes on for Ben and his potential is unleashed. There is a better than 10% chance Koufos rebounds from rocky season last year and excels in a Joerger system more suited to his skill set. Alternately there is a better than 10% chance a team increases its offer for Koufos as the season wears on, injuries mount, and another teams need for frontline help increases. Then we can make out like bandits when we dumped Marco for the 22nd pick! Brilliant!
There is also less than a 10% chance that increasing the protection on the pick for Top 10 protected to Top 12 protected gets exercised. There is also less 10% chance a mid 2nd round pick turns into a player. And don't get me started on the discounted value of cap space when cap is jumping to 102 million and almost every team is set to have substantial room. Not that flexibility is unimportant but it is less important in this dynamic context. That's all I am going to say on this. I have entertained this long enough. Now lets move on to big and better topics like who is going to compete with Ben for the MIP award.
You want to give away Ben for nothing, excuse me, next to nothing, and you want to give away a good back-up center in a salary dump. You want to bleed talent for cap space. I am glad you are not our GM since Adam Silver might demote our team to the D-League. A mid 2nd round pick by nature becomes 4th or 5th guy on the depth chart, that is, if he doesn't get cut in training camp. Saying the pick is next to worthless is generous of me. Its worthless! If a pick has a statistical probability of less than 5 or 10% of turning into a rotation player or a 90% or 95% chance of not working out, then I am going to remove the qualifier and declare it worthless.
I like to play the odds. It has worked for me. There is better than 10% chance that the light goes on for Ben and his potential is unleashed. There is a better than 10% chance Koufos rebounds from rocky season last year and excels in a Joerger system more suited to his skill set. Alternately there is a better than 10% chance a team increases its offer for Koufos as the season wears on, injuries mount, and another teams need for frontline help increases. Then we can make out like bandits when we dumped Marco for the 22nd pick! Brilliant!
There is also less than a 10% chance that increasing the protection on the pick for Top 10 protected to Top 12 protected gets exercised. There is also less 10% chance a mid 2nd round pick turns into a player. And don't get me started on the discounted value of cap space when cap is jumping to 102 million and almost every team is set to have substantial room. Not that flexibility is unimportant but it is less important in this dynamic context. That's all I am going to say on this. I have entertained this long enough. Now lets move on to big and better topics like who is going to compete with Ben for the MIP award.
They didn't look to project the backup role this summer IMO, now or within the two year frame of convincing Cousins to stay, as I said. WCS showed glimpses but was not totally convincing as a rookie. I think I read on STR that he had the worst defensive rating on the team last year
When you have two young players who haven't convinced they can play, and a big man in Koufos who had success with the coach at hand, I see no pressure to make this trade. The tipping point will come as soon as I feel WCS/Papa can step on the floor and hold their own
When you have two young players who haven't convinced they can play, and a big man in Koufos who had success with the coach at hand, I see no pressure to make this trade. The tipping point will come as soon as I feel WCS/Papa can step on the floor and hold their own
You sound like a lawyer. You took a position, a bad one, now you are defending it to the death! Instead of nit picking my opinions to the nth degree, a more constructive use of your time would be to come up with a better trade idea. Then I will shoot that one down too
You want to give away Ben for nothing, excuse me, next to nothing, and you want to give away a good back-up center in a salary dump. You want to bleed talent for cap space. I am glad you are not our GM since Adam Silver might demote our team to the D-League. A mid 2nd round pick by nature becomes 4th or 5th guy on the depth chart, that is, if he doesn't get cut in training camp. Saying the pick is next to worthless is generous of me. Its worthless! If a pick has a statistical probability of less than 5 or 10% of turning into a rotation player or a 90% or 95% chance of not working out, then I am going to remove the qualifier and declare it worthless.
I like to play the odds. It has worked for me. There is better than 10% chance that the light goes on for Ben and his potential is unleashed. There is a better than 10% chance Koufos rebounds from rocky season last year and excels in a Joerger system more suited to his skill set. Alternately there is a better than 10% chance a team increases its offer for Koufos as the season wears on, injuries mount, and another teams need for frontline help increases. Then we can make out like bandits when we dumped Marco for the 22nd pick! Brilliant!
There is also less than a 10% chance that increasing the protection on the pick for Top 10 protected to Top 12 protected gets exercised. There is also less 10% chance a mid 2nd round pick turns into a player. And don't get me started on the discounted value of cap space when cap is jumping to 102 million and almost every team is set to have substantial room. Not that flexibility is unimportant but it is less important in this dynamic context. That's all I am going to say on this. I have entertained this long enough. Now lets move on to big and better topics like who is going to compete with Ben for the MIP award.
You want to give away Ben for nothing, excuse me, next to nothing, and you want to give away a good back-up center in a salary dump. You want to bleed talent for cap space. I am glad you are not our GM since Adam Silver might demote our team to the D-League. A mid 2nd round pick by nature becomes 4th or 5th guy on the depth chart, that is, if he doesn't get cut in training camp. Saying the pick is next to worthless is generous of me. Its worthless! If a pick has a statistical probability of less than 5 or 10% of turning into a rotation player or a 90% or 95% chance of not working out, then I am going to remove the qualifier and declare it worthless.
I like to play the odds. It has worked for me. There is better than 10% chance that the light goes on for Ben and his potential is unleashed. There is a better than 10% chance Koufos rebounds from rocky season last year and excels in a Joerger system more suited to his skill set. Alternately there is a better than 10% chance a team increases its offer for Koufos as the season wears on, injuries mount, and another teams need for frontline help increases. Then we can make out like bandits when we dumped Marco for the 22nd pick! Brilliant!
There is also less than a 10% chance that increasing the protection on the pick for Top 10 protected to Top 12 protected gets exercised. There is also less 10% chance a mid 2nd round pick turns into a player. And don't get me started on the discounted value of cap space when cap is jumping to 102 million and almost every team is set to have substantial room. Not that flexibility is unimportant but it is less important in this dynamic context. That's all I am going to say on this. I have entertained this long enough. Now lets move on to big and better topics like who is going to compete with Ben for the MIP award.
Your stance of looking at probabilities without the consideration of the value of the type of player is where you fail in your evaluation. I'm glad you're not our GM. We'd be a lost cause with such elementary mistakes. Is it a 10% chance of being a bench player (like Koufos and McLemore), a 10% chance of being a starter, a 10% chance of being a star? Your analysis completely disregards these important factors.
A good backup C who either forces our best player out of position for stretches or $8 mil next year to improve the team at positions of need? It's pretty darn easy to see the value no matter how hard you try to ignore it.
I stand by my statement that a 2nd round pick and improving the odds of keeping a lottery pick in a highly touted draft is more valuable than a player who hasn't shown much in 3 years and will be coming off the rookie pay scale.
I've mentioned this already, but if we end up keeping Ben, I hope he becomes everything you hope, but forgive me for not putting a lot of stock in the minuscule evidence you have provided.
Yes, we all understand that YOU think YOUR opinions are extremely accurate. What a shocker!
I'm not surprised that a fan that started a thread such as this one would not do the trade. You're higher on McLemore than most. That's fine, but your arrogance in your posts is something you should work on. Of course if you don't care how arrogant you come across, feel free to continue on this path.
And I thought you said you were done? Not even a man/woman of your own word?
I'm not surprised that a fan that started a thread such as this one would not do the trade. You're higher on McLemore than most. That's fine, but your arrogance in your posts is something you should work on. Of course if you don't care how arrogant you come across, feel free to continue on this path.
And I thought you said you were done? Not even a man/woman of your own word?
I'm prepping for McLemore starting over Afflalo possibly for a few reasons, even if Afflalo remains the seasoned, refined player.
1. Lawson/Afflalo backcourt defensively might be tough for a defensive minded coach if the athletic McLemore is ready to apply himself as he has stated he wants to in interviews
2. Afflalo and Rudy are alike. Offensive, kind of ISO guys who like to post a bit
3. Afflalo presents no upside heading forward whereas Ben might (Joerger has said season not about wins/losses)
4. There is going to be a lot of offense on the court with Cousins/Gay/Lawson(Collison)/our PF, and Ben strikes me as the more complimentary piece in that regard.
1. Lawson/Afflalo backcourt defensively might be tough for a defensive minded coach if the athletic McLemore is ready to apply himself as he has stated he wants to in interviews
2. Afflalo and Rudy are alike. Offensive, kind of ISO guys who like to post a bit
3. Afflalo presents no upside heading forward whereas Ben might (Joerger has said season not about wins/losses)
4. There is going to be a lot of offense on the court with Cousins/Gay/Lawson(Collison)/our PF, and Ben strikes me as the more complimentary piece in that regard.
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I'm really rooting for Ben to beat Afflalo for the permanent starting job. Not that I'm rooting against Afflalo, but because I'm hoping Ben finally becomes the player we've all been hoping for. If Ben can flourish this year, we'll know that we have a franchise SG of the future alongside Cousins. That's a steady foundation right there. One less problem for next off-season. PG FA class will be interesting. There's Jeff Teague, Jrue Holiday, MCW, Patty Mills(?), Shelvin Mack(?), and Trey Burke(?). All realistic FAs who could possibly be franchise PGs.
I also agree. I don't think Afflalo fits next to Gay/Cousins well.
I also agree. I don't think Afflalo fits next to Gay/Cousins well.