Exactly. I mean, so much of this decline is due to the aging of the core group that competed for a championship, and then salvaging 75 cents on the dollar after that window shut and those guys started breaking down. What we're seeing right now is nature running its course, not the result of horrible moves by an incompetent general manager.
Does Petrie Still Have It?...
- Thread starter Merdiesel
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well, one inaction last summer cost us something that would've been better for us, trying to sign elson and jackie butler. instead, for the MLE the spurs got both. elson's no spring chicken, but he's been effective for the spurs, and butler is one of those hustle 12th man type guys. would've been better than salmons + mo taylor, IMO.
Well I'm talking about the big one. A true rebuilding process should've started at least a year ago. Now we've waited until it's all fallen apart, Bibby's stock is down, Artest's stock is way down and we're not likely to get a high lottery pick. We really don't have much if anything to show for the mediocrity/suckage of the last two seasons.
Good post. If I use my crystal ball, I see us in mediocre-land for as far as the eye can see. Best guess is that nobody gives us a "free lunch" in a trade. Best guess is Petrie-Maloofs try for the quick fix. If that happens, I think we'll be here long past 2011 before even talking about a WCF. There will be initial excitement though about the new coach and the new players, which will help the Maloofs with season ticket sales......I hope I'm wrong.
JMO, but, prior to Artest coming here...it looked as if that road was going to be taken.
But the team turned around, and gave one of the best teams in the league a run for their money and had a very very good 2nd half to the season.
Things looked very good...so...IMO, that delayed a "true rebuild"...it looked like a "retooling" was needed more then a rebuild at that time.
But the team turned around, and gave one of the best teams in the league a run for their money and had a very very good 2nd half to the season.
Things looked very good...so...IMO, that delayed a "true rebuild"...it looked like a "retooling" was needed more then a rebuild at that time.
Really? Maybe I am in the minority but I think a 10 points, 12 rebounds, 2 blocks a game, 7'1" 24 year old is worth that.
He was there to be had. A 37 year old expiring contract is not that hard to beat. Could have given Chicago a kid like Cisco or Douby or a heavily protected pick, etc in addition to expirings and we would have our big man for the next 6 years. I'm still upset about that one
He was there to be had. A 37 year old expiring contract is not that hard to beat. Could have given Chicago a kid like Cisco or Douby or a heavily protected pick, etc in addition to expirings and we would have our big man for the next 6 years. I'm still upset about that one
To me this feels a bit like criticizing Petrie for the impossible. Chicago didn't need Cisco or Douby, they have enough young players (and note how they essentially gave away JR Smith who was part of the deal they did get). They needed financial flexibility and someone who could fill in at PF until Tyrus Thomas developed. They got both in PJ Brown, who has been good for them. New Orleans had the better offer. C'est la vie.
Even if that run was for real, they dumped Adelman who was a big part of that. No matter that streak I never thought that team had championship potential, I said it all year and now it's popular opinion. Rebuilding on the fly doesn't work if you don't have good pieces to trade or cap space coming. Rebuilding on the fly was code for staying mediocre while praying for a miracle. We should've let this team bleed out and start over two years ago.
I base this feeling on having served on a corporate board of directors. Nothing enormous, but a solid business which had been growing for decades. The board all came from different backgrounds, we had an accountant, a lawyer, a banker, and so on... a lot of varying sorts of expertise. But we all recognized that our job was to make vague, general policies on behalf of the shareholders, and to ensure that the business was well managed. That meant hiring a good manager, and having him report on how things were going. Aside from hiring the manager, no personnel decision, or other day-to-day management decision was ever discussed or acted upon by us. We were not highly expert at running precisely that sort of business; the person we hired was. So as long as money kept flowing in, and the business kept growing, we mostly shut up and let him do what we hired him to do.
Of course, not all businesses are like that. Some people figure that if they can afford a shop or restaurant, they can run one. I don't think that's usually a prudent assumption, but everyone's free to throw away their money trying. I hope that the Kings aren't emulating that business model.
Of course, not all businesses are like that. Some people figure that if they can afford a shop or restaurant, they can run one. I don't think that's usually a prudent assumption, but everyone's free to throw away their money trying. I hope that the Kings aren't emulating that business model.
So you are saying
1) The guy essentially averaged a double double, had 2 blocks a game, was the second leading rebounder in the league. But he is AVERAGE and any big athletic guy can do that.
2) PJ Brown who turned in a a whopping 6 points and 5 rebounds and is 37 was an unbeatable deal versus what the Kings had to offer - who btw had expiring contracts coming out their ears last year?
1) The guy essentially averaged a double double, had 2 blocks a game, was the second leading rebounder in the league. But he is AVERAGE and any big athletic guy can do that.
2) PJ Brown who turned in a a whopping 6 points and 5 rebounds and is 37 was an unbeatable deal versus what the Kings had to offer - who btw had expiring contracts coming out their ears last year?
Chandlers no defensive power...never has been. He'll improve, but, he has a lot of room to do so....which says enough. He can change shots...and blocks a few. While nice...so can Dalembert, or a number of other guys.
He can rebound very well...but so can most guys in the NBA at the PC/C. Again, nothing special.
Chandler is average. Typical tall, athletic freak with no offensive game and decent defense which is aided by their athletic ability.
Would I rather have him then Brad? Course. But, I just dislike Brad's overall attitude and desire. Not sure I'd want Tyson on that contract however. Despise that much as I despise Brad's.
He can rebound very well...but so can most guys in the NBA at the PC/C. Again, nothing special.
Chandler is average. Typical tall, athletic freak with no offensive game and decent defense which is aided by their athletic ability.
Would I rather have him then Brad? Course. But, I just dislike Brad's overall attitude and desire. Not sure I'd want Tyson on that contract however. Despise that much as I despise Brad's.
1) Yep. There are a number of guys in the league, when given time, that would put up similar numbers. Chandler would most likely have more rebounds, but, not by a large margin. 1-3 a game depending on the player. Other this his rebounding numbers, nothing is all that impressive. He's 7'1. Sweet Jesus I hope he can swat a shot or two a game. He's a much better offensive rebounder...many come off his own misses. Usually grabs 2 a game off his own misses.
2) Again, the Bulls have no need for our backcourt. They have a better and younger backcourt overall...and anything we gave them would have sat on the bench. PJ Brown is a great guy to teach Thomas and a good stop gap for a season or two, and is a nice salary off the books as well. We didn't have what they need.
2) Again, the Bulls have no need for our backcourt. They have a better and younger backcourt overall...and anything we gave them would have sat on the bench. PJ Brown is a great guy to teach Thomas and a good stop gap for a season or two, and is a nice salary off the books as well. We didn't have what they need.
Too bad Justin Williams isn't a 7 footer. I love his desire and effort, but Bynum at 7 foot and fairly athletic as giving him fits last night. I like Tyson, but expect more from him being that he's an athletic 7' 1" and isn't too skinny or too bulky. I wish we could have traded for him or Darko at the same height. I would have rather us try to nab those 2 guys then spend our MLE on Salmons. Nothing against Salmons, be Cisco does much of the same things and is younger and much cheaper. We really need a big 4/5 and are pretty loaded with 1-3, but have a very skimpy front court with Miller and SAR showing their age and their limits, and Thomas being way to small to be a starting 4 in the West at 6' 7". Then we have a nice young, cheap, hustle in Williams, but need more size at 7 foot and above. There are a few nice young bigs in the draft in the Chinese dude YI and African dude T???.., I cannot remember his name now, but both are 7'+, but we don't have time for 3-4 year projects we need a nice young big now, hopefully one to rebuild around like the LA Kobies have in Bynum.
And again, I just have to say: oh my.
Chandler wasn't just the 2nd leading rebounder in the league, he was the 6th leading rebunder PER 48 in the league. And that's if you count the ultra limited mintes of James Augustine, Jamal Sampson, and Esteban Batista. He played more than twice as many minutes than any payer higher on him on the per 48 list, and still racked them up. He outrebouded, per 48 (and per game) Marcus Camby, Jeff Foster, David Lee, Carlos Boozer, Dwight freakin' Howard. But yeah, just average. He averaged more defensive rebounds a game (8.0 -- 6th in the NBA) than anybody on our team averaged TOTAL rebounds per game.
Hate those "average" 7'1" 62% shooting double double centers.
Per48 min look good for anybody. They're about as useful as +/- stats.
We outscored teams by 13 points per 48 min when Mo Taylor was on the floor
Manu scored 37 points per game since the break per 48 min.
Joe Smith grabbed 15 boards per 48 min since the break.
Potopekno could be made to look good with +/- or Per 48 stats.
We outscored teams by 13 points per 48 min when Mo Taylor was on the floor
Manu scored 37 points per game since the break per 48 min.
Joe Smith grabbed 15 boards per 48 min since the break.
Potopekno could be made to look good with +/- or Per 48 stats.
Again, agree on that.
Most rosters, when trying to win a championship, shall have high salary. Sometimes, teams get lucky when some veterans sign up to play for it on the cheap, in the hopes of winning a championship (Malone, Payton with Lakers, Finley with Spurs, Zo with Heat, Webber with Pistons), but a team shall usually need to pay (and sometimes overpay) for trying to get to the promised land. If the productivity of those high priced players decline while they are still making lot of money, the team shall suffer. We have been hit hard by that (Webber's injury the most glaring). Unfortunately, rest of it is not with good reason. Bibby and Brad, the obvious cases, have not had major injuries, and are fairly young, to see a sudden and huge decline.
I don't think Petrie has made bad moves. I do think however, that our front office, (Petrie or Maloofs, don't know or care), has to decide its course of action. If we want to be an elite team, they have to allow the downward cycle to take its full course. Stop signing vets like Reef and Salmons, in the hope of making the playoffs (even if they are useful, productive players). Develop kids and lose big (quite likely, next season shall be like the current one). Get a good draft pick this year and next. Then Bibby and Artests' expiring contracts can be used to either trade for a good vet, or attain some cap space to sign a FA.
Most rosters, when trying to win a championship, shall have high salary. Sometimes, teams get lucky when some veterans sign up to play for it on the cheap, in the hopes of winning a championship (Malone, Payton with Lakers, Finley with Spurs, Zo with Heat, Webber with Pistons), but a team shall usually need to pay (and sometimes overpay) for trying to get to the promised land. If the productivity of those high priced players decline while they are still making lot of money, the team shall suffer. We have been hit hard by that (Webber's injury the most glaring). Unfortunately, rest of it is not with good reason. Bibby and Brad, the obvious cases, have not had major injuries, and are fairly young, to see a sudden and huge decline.
I don't think Petrie has made bad moves. I do think however, that our front office, (Petrie or Maloofs, don't know or care), has to decide its course of action. If we want to be an elite team, they have to allow the downward cycle to take its full course. Stop signing vets like Reef and Salmons, in the hope of making the playoffs (even if they are useful, productive players). Develop kids and lose big (quite likely, next season shall be like the current one). Get a good draft pick this year and next. Then Bibby and Artests' expiring contracts can be used to either trade for a good vet, or attain some cap space to sign a FA.
