do you guys still think it was worth trading peja for ron ?
- Thread starter GoSACtown
- Start date
Obviously it was worth it. Keeping Peja would've ruined us, we would've either convinced him to stay and given him too much money and been stuck with that or he would've just walked and left us with nothing in return (like he did with Indiana). People have the good memories of Peja but they forget how he had a lot of games where it looked like he was just going through the motions and how he requested to be traded and really just didn't want to play with us anymore.
Demand for him just was not that high around the league. We could've gotten something else but not something better. Indiana had been wanting to deal for him for like a year, nobody else stepped up and finally they got him. Then he's a free agent and he has one suitor and that's who he goes with. And to this day, Ron has more value around the league so even with all the talking he's done and the time missed he's still giving us more.
Demand for him just was not that high around the league. We could've gotten something else but not something better. Indiana had been wanting to deal for him for like a year, nobody else stepped up and finally they got him. Then he's a free agent and he has one suitor and that's who he goes with. And to this day, Ron has more value around the league so even with all the talking he's done and the time missed he's still giving us more.
He was an awful defender this season, especially in the playoffs.
Thinking more about it, the Peja/Ron trade isn't even that much of a story.
The major trade that's more interesting to go over is the Webber for "movable pieces" deal. Webber got bought out, played for two teams after the Sixers, he's out of the league and we're still paying Kenny Thomas, Corliss retired (does that count as "moving" one of the pieces?) and we gave Skinner away for nothing. For about 3 years the NYC media had Webber going to the Knicks in a deal with Kurt Thomas as a main piece. We always laughed at that stuff but that deal would've been better because Kurt's contract was much more reasonable than Kenny's is today.
Thinking more about it, the Peja/Ron trade isn't even that much of a story.
The major trade that's more interesting to go over is the Webber for "movable pieces" deal. Webber got bought out, played for two teams after the Sixers, he's out of the league and we're still paying Kenny Thomas, Corliss retired (does that count as "moving" one of the pieces?) and we gave Skinner away for nothing. For about 3 years the NYC media had Webber going to the Knicks in a deal with Kurt Thomas as a main piece. We always laughed at that stuff but that deal would've been better because Kurt's contract was much more reasonable than Kenny's is today.
I don't get how anyone could answer no to this question. Its not even close.
If we hadn't traded Peja and then ultimately resigned him (it was his opt out year, and he would have opted out even with us), we'd be stuck with a quickly aging 32 year old sharpshooter with a huge contract who would be completely untradeable.
Instead we got an exciting run at the playoffs and two crap years, but in the end an all-time favorite player and two 1st round draft picks.
They are light-years apart.
If we hadn't traded Peja and then ultimately resigned him (it was his opt out year, and he would have opted out even with us), we'd be stuck with a quickly aging 32 year old sharpshooter with a huge contract who would be completely untradeable.
Instead we got an exciting run at the playoffs and two crap years, but in the end an all-time favorite player and two 1st round draft picks.
They are light-years apart.
People can answer "no" because they do not appreciate the drama, etc. that Ron Artest brought to the Kings. You may not agree with the answer, but it certainly doesn't invalidate it.
There's no way at all to know what might have happened if we hadn't made the trade. We don't know if we would have resigned Peja or not. We don't know if Petrie would have traded him to someone else, considering Petrie's proclivity for smelling the milk as it starts to turn bad a day before everyone else.
There's no way at all to know what might have happened if we hadn't made the trade. We don't know if we would have resigned Peja or not. We don't know if Petrie would have traded him to someone else, considering Petrie's proclivity for smelling the milk as it starts to turn bad a day before everyone else.
Sure I can't invalidate the answer, but common sense can.
You still would have rather we not traded for Ron even if we had let Peja walk? You would have wanted our best drafted talent ever (K-Mart excluded) to just go away for nothing?
There were no other trade partners for Peja that winter and if their were we would've been the ones getting shafted. A sign-and-trade in the summer would have got us better talent sure, but not as good as a Ron Artest and we would have had to take on salary we'd still be paying for.
And the drama? Yeah so Artest didn't feed his dog a day or two, and at the end he wanted us to call him Bill and was emailing ESPN too much. But what I mostly will remember from him is his playoff prediction coming true, his hard play even through his daughter's tough times, and his desire to win.
Sure, I wanted him traded, but not for the same reason as most of you. This "tick, tick....boom" you guys all predicted never happened (don't try to say it was the "mistake" comment after his failure to opt out, you guys were predicting much more). I doubt it ever will.
You still would have rather we not traded for Ron even if we had let Peja walk? You would have wanted our best drafted talent ever (K-Mart excluded) to just go away for nothing?
There were no other trade partners for Peja that winter and if their were we would've been the ones getting shafted. A sign-and-trade in the summer would have got us better talent sure, but not as good as a Ron Artest and we would have had to take on salary we'd still be paying for.
And the drama? Yeah so Artest didn't feed his dog a day or two, and at the end he wanted us to call him Bill and was emailing ESPN too much. But what I mostly will remember from him is his playoff prediction coming true, his hard play even through his daughter's tough times, and his desire to win.
Sure, I wanted him traded, but not for the same reason as most of you. This "tick, tick....boom" you guys all predicted never happened (don't try to say it was the "mistake" comment after his failure to opt out, you guys were predicting much more). I doubt it ever will.
Here's where you miss the point...
The question is requesting a personal response, i.e. "do you guys still think it was worth trading Peja for Ron?" Hence, there are at least two equally valid responses because the question is purely SUBJECTIVE in nature.
1. Yes, I THINK it was worth it.
2. No, I DO NOT THINK it was worth it.
3. What was the question again?
Just because you answer #1, it does not make #1 the only possible response.
That's assuming that was the only possible outcome, which is complete wrong.
Um, excuse me? There is NO way the Kings would have let Martin "just go away for nothing". I'd really like for you to try and show me how you get to that conclusion.
Again, just because we didn't HEAR about any other trade partners, doesn't mean there weren't discussions being held.
I'm glad you could overlook all the other stuff and just see what you wanted to see. Really I am. BUT that's your opinion, which you're certainly entitled to. A LOT of fans couldn't look past all the other stuff. Repeating his list of bizarre actions, non-team play or non-play, etc. would be redundant. It's all there for anyone to see. If it didn't matter to you, that supports your #1 answer above, but it doesn't invalidate mine.
The bomb may not have gone off, but the ticking was, in fact, very loud towards the end. Again, you choose not to recognize it, which is fine, albeit somewhat myopic IMHO.
You "doubt it ever will"? I hope, for the sake of the Rockets, the NBA and actually Artest himself, you're right. But I'm beyond ecstatic that it's not something the Kings are going to be losing sleep over any longer.
Peace.
The question is requesting a personal response, i.e. "do you guys still think it was worth trading Peja for Ron?" Hence, there are at least two equally valid responses because the question is purely SUBJECTIVE in nature.
1. Yes, I THINK it was worth it.
2. No, I DO NOT THINK it was worth it.
3. What was the question again?
Just because you answer #1, it does not make #1 the only possible response.
That's assuming that was the only possible outcome, which is complete wrong.
Um, excuse me? There is NO way the Kings would have let Martin "just go away for nothing". I'd really like for you to try and show me how you get to that conclusion.
Again, just because we didn't HEAR about any other trade partners, doesn't mean there weren't discussions being held.
I'm glad you could overlook all the other stuff and just see what you wanted to see. Really I am. BUT that's your opinion, which you're certainly entitled to. A LOT of fans couldn't look past all the other stuff. Repeating his list of bizarre actions, non-team play or non-play, etc. would be redundant. It's all there for anyone to see. If it didn't matter to you, that supports your #1 answer above, but it doesn't invalidate mine.
The bomb may not have gone off, but the ticking was, in fact, very loud towards the end. Again, you choose not to recognize it, which is fine, albeit somewhat myopic IMHO.
You "doubt it ever will"? I hope, for the sake of the Rockets, the NBA and actually Artest himself, you're right. But I'm beyond ecstatic that it's not something the Kings are going to be losing sleep over any longer.
Peace.
In the interest of not continuing this argument I'll mostly reply to just this part. The rest of your comments were much more concise than normal, but this one was confusing.
I wasn't talking about Martin. I was just saying Peja is the best drafted talent by us other than Martin, hence "K-Mart excluded". Also, I laid out many more possible outcomes than just Peja walking, all of which you quoted..
I wasn't talking about Martin. I was just saying Peja is the best drafted talent by us other than Martin, hence "K-Mart excluded". Also, I laid out many more possible outcomes than just Peja walking, all of which you quoted..
Here is where you miss the point...
If you are going to state that, and only that, don't act surprised when people question you. You didn't provide anything to back your claim.
If you want to get technical about the question than fine, your answer of no it wasn't worth trading Peja for Ron is valid, but only because that question allows you to act upon personal feelings. But if you look at that trade, and when it happened, and what would have happened had it not been made, and what has happened now, there is no way you can say trading Peja for Ron wasn't worth it.
If you are going to state that, and only that, don't act surprised when people question you. You didn't provide anything to back your claim.
If you want to get technical about the question than fine, your answer of no it wasn't worth trading Peja for Ron is valid, but only because that question allows you to act upon personal feelings. But if you look at that trade, and when it happened, and what would have happened had it not been made, and what has happened now, there is no way you can say trading Peja for Ron wasn't worth it.
So you have a crystal ball and KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt what would have happened had the trade not been made?
I didn't like the trade idea before it happened, I didn't like it when it happened, I didn't like it after it happened and I don't like it now.We can argue forever about what might or might not have happened had the trade never been made, but we'll never know for sure.
My comment was addressed to tradepeja, who was commenting as though it was a purely objective black and white question, which is obviously isn't. I know I'm in the minority opinion by looking at the poll results, but I can live with that. Since you disagree with me almost 100% of the time, I didn't really expect you to change for this.
As far as acting on personal feelings go, that's pretty much what everyone does unless they're simply presenting cold hard facts, like the Kings play in Arco Arena. Any interpretation of statistics, personnel moves, etc. is based upon personal feelings, preferences, etc.
I didn't like the trade idea before it happened, I didn't like it when it happened, I didn't like it after it happened and I don't like it now.We can argue forever about what might or might not have happened had the trade never been made, but we'll never know for sure.
My comment was addressed to tradepeja, who was commenting as though it was a purely objective black and white question, which is obviously isn't. I know I'm in the minority opinion by looking at the poll results, but I can live with that. Since you disagree with me almost 100% of the time, I didn't really expect you to change for this.
As far as acting on personal feelings go, that's pretty much what everyone does unless they're simply presenting cold hard facts, like the Kings play in Arco Arena. Any interpretation of statistics, personnel moves, etc. is based upon personal feelings, preferences, etc.
I think the point isn't that you have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt what would have happened otherwise- no one is claiming that and if they were the question would be unanswerable. But, if the trade had not been made, I think it is undeniable that there would be a good chance of Peja walking for nothing, since that's exactly what he did in Indy. A long term contract would not be the best option, considering that we were heading for a rebuild. We got two firsts for Artest- maybe we could have gotten that for Peja, maybe not, personally I think more likely not since more teams would see Ron as that key piece to make a run than Peja. I'm sure Petrie tried to get talented youngs or picks for Peja, but it seems that it wasn't happening, getting Artest was just as good since he could be redeemed later for some draft picks.
Also- Ron is going to be Ron wherever he is. There are always people in this world who do bad things, are unstable, and lash out at people around them. In Sacramento he performed reasonably well on the court, helped win some games and maybe even showed the young kids how to play with firey intensity. It's understandable that you are upset about a guy like Ron playing for the Kings, from a basketball standpoint though, I'd say the Artest project was a win for the Kings, especially considering how he turned out for Indy.
Thank you. No one is saying they know exactly what would have happened. Just it was extremely likely that Peja would have walked for nothing. If you think that chance is better than the for sure 2 1sts and BJax expiring that we have now, then something is wrong. Most of us don't let the problems of a near bi-polar celebrity bother us that much.
I have to say yes....
Peja was my favorite King for a long time. Not because he was the best or because he made game winning shots but because I liked his game.
That being said I still think it was a really good idea because he looked bored here and needed to get on a new team.
Also, we weren't going to pay him what he got so he would have walked anyway.
Peja was my favorite King for a long time. Not because he was the best or because he made game winning shots but because I liked his game.
That being said I still think it was a really good idea because he looked bored here and needed to get on a new team.
Also, we weren't going to pay him what he got so he would have walked anyway.
What’s the question again? lol…I’m going to try to put my personal feelings aside.
I never was interested in trading Peja for Ron (and I didn’t like it when I heard it)…I think Peja got a lot of blame and crap dumped on him in his last year being on our team. Sure, Peja was going through the motions in a lot of games but his teammates (ahem…Bibby…ahem) wasn’t really helping out either (I actually was hoping that Bibby would have been traded that year). I did think he needed to get a change and I didn’t think our front office would have given Peja the amount he wanted. So in that case, he would have walked and a lot of people would have been pissed at Geoff for not getting a player back in replace of Peja.
For the people who wanted to start rebuilding: The Ron trade was awful. We could have gotten a pretty low pick that year, that could have sent a message to the owners/gm that we need to change and Ron’s personality changed the direction. He also helped with Bonzi. If we didn’t make the off-season, Bonzi wouldn’t have gone all crazy in the playoffs and demanded a large contract (thank goodness he didn’t sign). If he did sign we would have had a huge problem (and we might have kept Bibby) and we might have signed more aging vets.
For the people who wanted a little excitement that year, Ron was great. He brought a crazy energy to the team. It was fun, I did enjoy watching his crazy prediction come to life. I also think he helped some of the younger guys in their game.
Would I redo the trade, if we could have gotten the same thing for Peja as we did in our Ron trade, the answer would be “No.” The Peja trade was such a two-sided thing. The Ron trade gave us something good after 2 long upsetting years, but he also had a lot of baggage that killed me and it was that “I’m the best attitude” on the court that made me hate the trade even more and his game style was what I hated to see for my team….Here’s my question, Ron’s trade to Houston gave us: a great vet (who’s on the last year of his contract) , a rookie that was supposed to go in the top 14 and a draft pick. Could we have gotten that for Peja?
Now, let celebrate...Good luck to Rick in Houston and hope Ron finally finds what he's looking for. And finally, Ron is gone, thanks but it's time to move on. Ra.Ra.Sis.Boom.Bah
I never was interested in trading Peja for Ron (and I didn’t like it when I heard it)…I think Peja got a lot of blame and crap dumped on him in his last year being on our team. Sure, Peja was going through the motions in a lot of games but his teammates (ahem…Bibby…ahem) wasn’t really helping out either (I actually was hoping that Bibby would have been traded that year). I did think he needed to get a change and I didn’t think our front office would have given Peja the amount he wanted. So in that case, he would have walked and a lot of people would have been pissed at Geoff for not getting a player back in replace of Peja.
For the people who wanted to start rebuilding: The Ron trade was awful. We could have gotten a pretty low pick that year, that could have sent a message to the owners/gm that we need to change and Ron’s personality changed the direction. He also helped with Bonzi. If we didn’t make the off-season, Bonzi wouldn’t have gone all crazy in the playoffs and demanded a large contract (thank goodness he didn’t sign). If he did sign we would have had a huge problem (and we might have kept Bibby) and we might have signed more aging vets.
For the people who wanted a little excitement that year, Ron was great. He brought a crazy energy to the team. It was fun, I did enjoy watching his crazy prediction come to life. I also think he helped some of the younger guys in their game.
Would I redo the trade, if we could have gotten the same thing for Peja as we did in our Ron trade, the answer would be “No.” The Peja trade was such a two-sided thing. The Ron trade gave us something good after 2 long upsetting years, but he also had a lot of baggage that killed me and it was that “I’m the best attitude” on the court that made me hate the trade even more and his game style was what I hated to see for my team….Here’s my question, Ron’s trade to Houston gave us: a great vet (who’s on the last year of his contract) , a rookie that was supposed to go in the top 14 and a draft pick. Could we have gotten that for Peja?
Now, let celebrate...Good luck to Rick in Houston and hope Ron finally finds what he's looking for. And finally, Ron is gone, thanks but it's time to move on. Ra.Ra.Sis.Boom.Bah
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