Do we trade Bogi? (split from FIBA thread)

#31
Actually now that I think about it, it COULD be prudent to trade him for a better fitting piece.

It's just way too soon to even have this conversation. Like, who's available that we can get for him? Will Bogi's tourney play carry over enough to make him a valuable piece? And if it does, who's to say he can't work off the bench playing 2/3?

But honestly, as long as he comes back better than last season, it's a win, no matter how everything else shakes out.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#32
What you also saw from Bogdan in the WC was pick and roll play. As a pick and roll player he's dangerous. Last year they wanted him to be an attack guard which they rarely had spacing for and probably isn't his strong suit anyway not even considering his nagging knee issues last year. More pick and rolls and more spot ups next year and Bogdan should look terrific.
I was watching one of Serbia's games and saw them run 2 or 3 pnr in a roll for Bogs and I immediately thought of you. ;)
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#33
Actually now that I think about it, it COULD be prudent to trade him for a better fitting piece.

It's just way too soon to even have this conversation. Like, who's available that we can get for him? Will Bogi's tourney play carry over enough to make him a valuable piece? And if it does, who's to say he can't work off the bench playing 2/3?

But honestly, as long as he comes back better than last season, it's a win, no matter how everything else shakes out.
At this point in time, I'm willing to let Vlade determine which pieces fit the best. He seems to be doing an adequate job thus far. ;)
 
#34
Wait, you don’t want to pay Bogi starter money but you want to pay Jaylen Brown starter money a year earlier? Bill Simmons believes he wants at least 25/year.
Did you see me say I wouldn’t pay him starter money? It’s a question but certainly not one I’m ruling out. I only mention a possible trade because I like Bogi and Buddy but think their games overlap after watching FIBA. Bogi did not play on the ball much at all. He did very well a lot of things Buddy does today. That presents potential to upgrade your team, if you find the right offer
 
#35
What you also saw from Bogdan in the WC was pick and roll play. As a pick and roll player he's dangerous. Last year they wanted him to be an attack guard which they rarely had spacing for and probably isn't his strong suit anyway not even considering his nagging knee issues last year. More pick and rolls and more spot ups next year and Bogdan should look terrific.
I agree with this statement. I expect Bogi to be very good. But that will also mean he gets a pretty significant offer. I have no problem paying Bogi but it will be a lot of money for two very similar players.
 
#36
At this point in time, I'm willing to let Vlade determine which pieces fit the best. He seems to be doing an adequate job thus far. ;)
Why do you and others do this? Are you a kill joy at parties also? Do you prefer to limit views to your website? It’s early September. What else do we have to discuss then potential trades?
 
#38
Actually now that I think about it, it COULD be prudent to trade him for a better fitting piece.

It's just way too soon to even have this conversation. Like, who's available that we can get for him? Will Bogi's tourney play carry over enough to make him a valuable piece? And if it does, who's to say he can't work off the bench playing 2/3?

But honestly, as long as he comes back better than last season, it's a win, no matter how everything else shakes out.
I think we saw him as a 3 last year and while I’m a huge Bogi fan, I hope to never see that experiment again.

I thought he might still be a decent back up point guard but he has to improve his shooting off the dribble. We saw a lot to like at FIBA but we didn’t see that.

It’s early September with no games in sight. It’s never too soon for idle speculation and discussing what might be value
 
#39
Actually now that I think about it, it COULD be prudent to trade him for a better fitting piece.

It's just way too soon to even have this conversation. Like, who's available that we can get for him? Will Bogi's tourney play carry over enough to make him a valuable piece? And if it does, who's to say he can't work off the bench playing 2/3?

But honestly, as long as he comes back better than last season, it's a win, no matter how everything else shakes out.
What's a better fitting piece? Bogdans skillset is unique to the roster. He's the second best playmaker behind Fox and third isn't particularly close. If there is redundant pieces amongst the core players it's Bagley/Giles. Fox, Hield, Bogi, Barnes, Bagley is looking like our money lineup.
 
#40
Did you see me say I wouldn’t pay him starter money? It’s a question but certainly not one I’m ruling out. I only mention a possible trade because I like Bogi and Buddy but think their games overlap after watching FIBA. Bogi did not play on the ball much at all. He did very well a lot of things Buddy does today. That presents potential to upgrade your team, if you find the right offer
That’s fair. I do value the redundancy because of injury risk and the fact that shooting and playmaking guard play are so important in this era. I’d be more down with jaylen if he wasn’t up for a deal after this season
 
#41
What's a better fitting piece? Bogdans skillset is unique to the roster. He's the second best playmaker behind Fox and third isn't particularly close. If there is redundant pieces amongst the core players it's Bagley/Giles. Fox, Hield, Bogi, Barnes, Bagley is looking like our money lineup.
He's a half court and PnR player on a pace-and-space roster that doesn't seem to be going away from that anytime soon. If you're looking for a better fit, we already have it though: the guy starting ahead of him at SG.
 
#44
I think we saw him as a 3 last year and while I’m a huge Bogi fan, I hope to never see that experiment again.

I thought he might still be a decent back up point guard but he has to improve his shooting off the dribble. We saw a lot to like at FIBA but we didn’t see that.

It’s early September with no games in sight. It’s never too soon for idle speculation and discussing what might be value
This is actually a good point haha

But personally, I'd still like to see how everything works out before musing on the pros and cons of trading the fella.

The season can't get here soon enough!
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#45
Why do you and others do this? Are you a kill joy at parties also? Do you prefer to limit views to your website? It’s early September. What else do we have to discuss then potential trades?
My comment was in response to @gunks, not your initial post. We go back and forth every year. I was primarily referencing the job Vlade has done more than anything else.

I'm the one who split out your post to further discussion. I'm pretty sure my response to gunks isn't going to keep people from participating.
 
#46
Below you'll see how he ended this World Cup and became the best scorer of the competition. The way I see it, he's hungry, he's fired up and he's fully prepared for the new season. I was one of the people who were saying we need to trade him after his poor performances late last season. I think he made a huge progress during this summer and if he can maintain the same level of confidence when the season starts, we could really have the best 6th man in the league.
However, in my opinion, in order for us to get the most out of Bogdan, Walton needs to make sure:
- he plays at the small guard position
- there are specific off the screen plays for Bogdan, like we had for Peja back in the days
- Bogdan gets at least 20 mpg, to be able to find his rhythm off the bench

 
#47
For me the pick and roll to be at its best is for both players to be able to hit a mid range jumper.
A good example is Stockton and Malone at the other end of the scale was WCS and anyone else.

We have the shooting from our guard positions and hopefully we will have at least one of our bigs step up.
Last year towards the end I saw to many opponents just sag back on WCS to slow down the lob and let Bogi shoot a unbalanced shot around the free throw line.

To me a truly good pick and roll you have to punish their defense. Our starting guards and Bogi should be able to get to the basket more often with a big that can hit a 10 or 12 foot shot. We lacked that last season.
 
#48
Below you'll see how he ended this World Cup and became the best scorer of the competition. The way I see it, he's hungry, he's fired up and he's fully prepared for the new season. I was one of the people who were saying we need to trade him after his poor performances late last season. I think he made a huge progress during this summer and if he can maintain the same level of confidence when the season starts, we could really have the best 6th man in the league.
However, in my opinion, in order for us to get the most out of Bogdan, Walton needs to make sure:
- he plays at the small guard position
- there are specific off the screen plays for Bogdan, like we had for Peja back in the days
- Bogdan gets at least 20 mpg, to be able to find his rhythm off the bench

"Small guard" position? Don't you men shooting guard (or big guard, as they used to call it)?
If Bogi has no WC-related injuries to slow him down, he's in a great place to have a big season, and to be a strong candidate for 6th man of the year.
I just hope someone forces him to REST until training camp begins. Maybe if he spends the next two weeks with Buddy, passing out water and food to hurricane victims, he'll be able to recharge and avoid injury. Training camp will be here in about two weeks!
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#50
It’s going to be interesting how Bogi is used. Serbia played him off the ball, running through screens, mostly as a catch and shoot 2 guard.

Joeger played him on the ball, where too often Bogi was forced to make something happen off the dribble. In Joeger’s defense, he didn’t really have a back up point guard and Bogi was his best option but clearly not his game.


Ideally Bogi is the starting 2 in the role we have Buddy. Do we make a trade?
Serbia used his tool kit appropriately. I've said so in previous posts that he should be used in such a manner. If he's employed this upcoming season like he was last season with Joerger I will be sorely disappointed.

Even though I was unhappy with Bogs' performance last year and frustrated with his injury? situation, I'm keeping an open mind on him. I'm not assuming that Hield is the better player. It sure would be nice to see Bogs as a King in the same role he was used by Serbia. Then we could make a final judgment on how he fits or doesn't with the Kings on a long term basis. Joseph was a big acquisition because now there is no excuse about putting a 2G in the PG role.
 
#51
My comment was in response to @gunks, not your initial post. We go back and forth every year. I was primarily referencing the job Vlade has done more than anything else.

I'm the one who split out your post to further discussion. I'm pretty sure my response to gunks isn't going to keep people from participating.
Fair enough :)
 
#52
For me the pick and roll to be at its best is for both players to be able to hit a mid range jumper.
A good example is Stockton and Malone at the other end of the scale was WCS and anyone else.

We have the shooting from our guard positions and hopefully we will have at least one of our bigs step up.
Last year towards the end I saw to many opponents just sag back on WCS to slow down the lob and let Bogi shoot a unbalanced shot around the free throw line.

To me a truly good pick and roll you have to punish their defense. Our starting guards and Bogi should be able to get to the basket more often with a big that can hit a 10 or 12 foot shot. We lacked that last season.
To your point, Bogi should be able to run a mean pick and roll with Dedmon or Bagley (if Bagley can set a decent screen)
 
#53
I agree with a lot of the other comments and I understand it takes time to build a good squad that fit together properly.
We got lucky for a change in a few drafts and traded for some key pieces before the last trade deadline.

Not every new piece of the puzzle unfortunately fits properly but I believe we are at a point where we are tweaking and filling in for the good and not just with the left over bones other teams threw us.

We should be at a point where we can put players like Bogi in a position of strength.

We have a good roster and unless someone that really moves the needle comes along before the season starts we should stay pat with what we have and let some of the rookies get some experience.

We will have a real good feeling for what our needs will be by the end of the year and fix the roster by all star time.
 
#54
Before we trade either buddy or bogi, id like to get 1 or both on reasonable extensions, then we can keep both for a number of years until we need to max Bags. Would also like to see Giles get extended at a good deal. With extensions, player should be willing to take a more friendly deal as they are getting a pay day before risking major injury in their contract year. Will make all of them easier to move for a good deal if needed in the future too
 
#55
Who knows? I didn’t say absolutely trade him. I’m not down on Bogi or Buddy. I think both are starter level 2 guards. But if you get an offer for a good younger wing I think you have to consider it.

I don’t think Boston would do it but I would absolutely consider a Brown/Bogi trade. I think both teams would be better teams as a result. Boston needs Bogi’s shooting and BBIQ and Bogi would fit well in Brads system. Brown would flourish as a 3 in our up tempo offense.
So, after the trade, we would have to find minutes for two starter quality SFs, instead of two starter quality SGs.
 
#56
So, after the trade, we would have to find minutes for two starter quality SFs, instead of two starter quality SGs.
From Ben and who ever to Buddy and Bogi is a huge difference. We are in a position of strength and I agree we need both of them at this point.
You never know what a players getting paid expectations are at this point and we may need to move one because of it. but nows not the time to worry about it.
 
#57
So, after the trade, we would have to find minutes for two starter quality SFs, instead of two starter quality SGs.
Barnes could move to four and Bagley could play center.... we would have more options and better defensive match-ups against other western teams. Not to mention Brown is more on Fox’s and Bagley’s timeline.
 
#58
Barnes could move to four and Bagley could play center.... we would have more options and better defensive match-ups against other western teams. Not to mention Brown is more on Fox’s and Bagley’s timeline.
Yes, Barnes can play some 4. It adds to his value. But his two weaknesses are more exposed when playing the 4. Sub-par rebounding and no blocks (or altered shots).
 
#59
So, after the trade, we would have to find minutes for two starter quality SFs, instead of two starter quality SGs.
Right? Who you then also have to immediately max via RFA. The idea behind trading Bogi would be that we can’t afford $29M per for Buddy plus $18M per for Bogi. Not, let’s swap Bogi for another maxed out borderline All-Star. We would need to find a promising rookie contract to buy a couple more years of cap space.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#60
I agree with this statement. I expect Bogi to be very good. But that will also mean he gets a pretty significant offer. I have no problem paying Bogi but it will be a lot of money for two very similar players.
If by similar, you mean both players fit the description of what a shooting guard should look like, then I see nothing wrong with that. In a perfect world, you want to keep both Buddy and Bogi. What it comes down to, assuming both players perform the way we think they will, is money. There isn't a contract extension on the table right now for Bogi because of the rookie contract he signed, which was for 3 years instead of 4. So I think the most the Kings can offer in an extension is around 50 mil for 4 years, which won't cut it in my opinion.

I think it will take somewhere around 17/18 mil a year for 4 years to resign him, which I think is fair, but then it's not my money. The Kings can likely resign everyone on the team they want, as long as they're willing to pay the money. Look at the top teams in the league, and you also see the biggest payrolls in the league. What you don't want is to have one of the biggest payrolls and not be competitive.

Personally, I want to keep Bogdanovic, but if it looks like the price is too high, and the right offer comes along, then I'd be on board with trading him. But lets see how he performs this season first. If he can repeat what he did in the world championships, then pay him whatever he wants because you have the makings of an all star. I know everyone is sold on Buddy, but lets be honest. Bogi's biggest problem last season was his shooting. Other than that, he's a better passer and ball handler than Buddy. Buddy is a better rebounder. They could both defend better, but Bogi played and defended 3 different positions.

My point is, if Bogi can shoot the ball this season like he did in the world championships, then there isn't a lot difference between the two of them. Other than a little age