Do we start Bagley right away?
- Thread starter Cojc
- Start date
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The Kings have a lot depth. I didn't say it was good depth, but it's depth in the sense that you have a lot of players that are on similar levels right now.
I expect Joerger to play the players he thinks will help us win the most. If that's Temple, Shumpert, Randolph, & Koufos, so be it. I do not (and I repeat) do not want our young players to think anything is guaranteed. They need to prove they are better than the next guy. Slacking off results in the bench.
Our young guys seem to have a hard working, grinder personality. I think we need to give Joerger some of that credit in his approach last year. Bagley seems to be the type of guy who wants to put in the work and learn. If that's the case, don't let your foot off the gas (as a coach). Make him earn it.
Even if Bagley is good enough to earn the starting spot from day 1, communicating that the best players are going to play sets the tone that Bagley's starting spot is never guaranteed. We have no room for our young guys becoming entitled.
I expect Joerger to play the players he thinks will help us win the most. If that's Temple, Shumpert, Randolph, & Koufos, so be it. I do not (and I repeat) do not want our young players to think anything is guaranteed. They need to prove they are better than the next guy. Slacking off results in the bench.
Our young guys seem to have a hard working, grinder personality. I think we need to give Joerger some of that credit in his approach last year. Bagley seems to be the type of guy who wants to put in the work and learn. If that's the case, don't let your foot off the gas (as a coach). Make him earn it.
Even if Bagley is good enough to earn the starting spot from day 1, communicating that the best players are going to play sets the tone that Bagley's starting spot is never guaranteed. We have no room for our young guys becoming entitled.
I agree with those who are under the impression that one needs to earn the right to start, not just be given it on a silver platter.
Playing in the NBA is a lot different than playing in the NCAA. Starting in the NBA is a lot different than starting in the NCAA. Bagley will better be served observing from the bench, and then easing his way up into that starting position as the season progresses.
Playing in the NBA is a lot different than playing in the NCAA. Starting in the NBA is a lot different than starting in the NCAA. Bagley will better be served observing from the bench, and then easing his way up into that starting position as the season progresses.
The other thing that gets overlooked as well is that a player earning his minutes might not always be about being the best player, but being the best at helping his team win. This is an important distinction to make.
For example, Bagley may be leaps and bounds better than everyone else but if you put him on the floor with the team tomorrow, he likely will not help as much as someone like Labissiere. Why? Because he doesn't know the offensive & defensive schemes.
In the end, basktball is a team game. If we have a talented player that doesn't know how to play with the team, make him earn his minutes by learning how to play with the team. Make him put in the work to know the plays like the back of his hand. Make him put in the work to know where all of his defensive shifts should be when he is playing PF, C, or even SF (looking at you Vlade).
It was mentioned last year, but Joerger talked about giving a good chunk of minutes to the veterans because he wants players on the floor that know the system, know where to be, know how to play. It helps the development of the kids when they are playing with players who know. For example, if the scheme calls for funneling an opponent to another defender but that defender isn't there, it is frustrating and sometimes demoralizing when you do what you are told but someone else doesn't know what they are doing.
Joerger wants to play guys who have put in the work to know where to be and how to play. That type of work is just as important as working on your individual game.
For example, Bagley may be leaps and bounds better than everyone else but if you put him on the floor with the team tomorrow, he likely will not help as much as someone like Labissiere. Why? Because he doesn't know the offensive & defensive schemes.
In the end, basktball is a team game. If we have a talented player that doesn't know how to play with the team, make him earn his minutes by learning how to play with the team. Make him put in the work to know the plays like the back of his hand. Make him put in the work to know where all of his defensive shifts should be when he is playing PF, C, or even SF (looking at you Vlade).
It was mentioned last year, but Joerger talked about giving a good chunk of minutes to the veterans because he wants players on the floor that know the system, know where to be, know how to play. It helps the development of the kids when they are playing with players who know. For example, if the scheme calls for funneling an opponent to another defender but that defender isn't there, it is frustrating and sometimes demoralizing when you do what you are told but someone else doesn't know what they are doing.
Joerger wants to play guys who have put in the work to know where to be and how to play. That type of work is just as important as working on your individual game.
I agree with what you are saying and I would not have a problem with him getting 25 min. A game for awhile to get his feet wet.
I have to say that many new players to a team like via trade get playing time right away by giving them a few set plays in which they can contribute while they learn the system. Granted with NBA experience it should be easier for them.
But with summer league and the workouts plus camp and preseason a top pick I would hope has it together enough for major playing time.
I saw many games the first half of last season that the second group was the ones keeping us in games and a lot of them were rookies. I hope with the 2nd pick and our core young guys having more experience we should not be digging a big hole at the beginning of games.
I have to say that many new players to a team like via trade get playing time right away by giving them a few set plays in which they can contribute while they learn the system. Granted with NBA experience it should be easier for them.
But with summer league and the workouts plus camp and preseason a top pick I would hope has it together enough for major playing time.
I saw many games the first half of last season that the second group was the ones keeping us in games and a lot of them were rookies. I hope with the 2nd pick and our core young guys having more experience we should not be digging a big hole at the beginning of games.
I don't see Skal playing better than him from the get.
The other option is WCS and KK starting again, which I could see happening. WCS got the pick and roll while KK has the rebounding/rim protection.
Pairing Bags with either of those two will make a redundancy in the pick and roll or the rebounding, so pick your poison there. I'm not sure Bagley is a good rim protector, so maybe he and KK would pair best.
BUT I'd go with WCS and Bagley for the sole reason that we will see the best WCS has to offer this year, and we need him to be better than a FA leftover.
The other option is WCS and KK starting again, which I could see happening. WCS got the pick and roll while KK has the rebounding/rim protection.
Pairing Bags with either of those two will make a redundancy in the pick and roll or the rebounding, so pick your poison there. I'm not sure Bagley is a good rim protector, so maybe he and KK would pair best.
BUT I'd go with WCS and Bagley for the sole reason that we will see the best WCS has to offer this year, and we need him to be better than a FA leftover.
If WCS has been traded by the time the season starts, then it's probably a pretty simple situation and Joeger starts Giles and Bagley. If WCS is still on the team, it becomes a messier situation. WCS is in a contract year. It probably won't be pretty if he doesn't start and/or his minutes significantly reduced, even if it is warranted. Also, if the Kings were to not trade him this summer, but they did in fact desire to do so, they would want to showcase him, which would factor in to their decisions on whether he would start and how many minutes he would play. If the Kings do want to trade him, I hope they do it this summer so that Joerger can totally focus on winning games without being pulled in other directions because of management's desire to maximize WCS's value in a trade. It seems like for several years now there have been competing agendas - to win, to lose due to the ping pong ball draft needs, to provide minutes to the youth, to appease veterans in their minutes, to showcase a player for trade value, etc., etc., etc. It sure would be nice if by the time this team started the season it could be organized in such a way that there is just one goal - winning.
Seems like we had Fox playing behind or with Hill to start the season, we eased him into the starting lineup
Really didnt have him "take over the starting position" until after Hill was traded
Maybe we have both Marvin and Giles start off the bench and get their feet wet before we stick them both out as our future bigs
Marvin 3 Games, Giles 7 Games , unless WCS comes alive!!
Really didnt have him "take over the starting position" until after Hill was traded
Maybe we have both Marvin and Giles start off the bench and get their feet wet before we stick them both out as our future bigs
Marvin 3 Games, Giles 7 Games , unless WCS comes alive!!
There's nothing about Bagley that says he's the kind of guy who just walks in and expects anything given to him. The young guys on this team work their tails off and I expect Bagley to push that envelope even further.
He needs to be starting from the get go. Even if you just have him playing garbage man, there's no reason to stunt his growth by starting ZBo. Problem is that we have no idea what Joerger really has planned by saying that these guys need to earn their minutes. He could just be saying that to make sure they bust their butts but with Joerger you never know and he could just as easily start pointless veterans at every position. I mean we all know that Temple and Shumpert are better players than JJ is right now but is it really in the best interest of the Kings to bury JJ on the bench just because there are two more experienced veterans on the team? (assuming Temple opts in)
He needs to be starting from the get go. Even if you just have him playing garbage man, there's no reason to stunt his growth by starting ZBo. Problem is that we have no idea what Joerger really has planned by saying that these guys need to earn their minutes. He could just be saying that to make sure they bust their butts but with Joerger you never know and he could just as easily start pointless veterans at every position. I mean we all know that Temple and Shumpert are better players than JJ is right now but is it really in the best interest of the Kings to bury JJ on the bench just because there are two more experienced veterans on the team? (assuming Temple opts in)
Your "stunt his growth" is another man's "motivation." What makes stars? What makes great players? A lot does, but mindset and the willingness to put in the work are going to be the biggest common denominators. Establishing that from the get go & drilling that into them sets your young guys up to reach their potential.
Playing devil's advocate, it could. Not getting minutes for players who are used to getting ample playing time throughout their entire lives can be a wake up call. It can force players to not sit on their laurels & get complacent. The flip side to this is it could help make Temple & Shumpert more attractive to teams. If Temple & Shumpert go on a hot streak and are knocking down threes, a Temple or Shumpert could help in a future deal. Not saying they are going to net us some great return, but it could make a larger deal possible or return something like a 2nd round pick.
Playing devil's advocate, it could. Not getting minutes for players who are used to getting ample playing time throughout their entire lives can be a wake up call. It can force players to not sit on their laurels & get complacent. The flip side to this is it could help make Temple & Shumpert more attractive to teams. If Temple & Shumpert go on a hot streak and are knocking down threes, a Temple or Shumpert could help in a future deal. Not saying they are going to net us some great return, but it could make a larger deal possible or return something like a 2nd round pick.
We will just have to disagree then. If I'm the coach, I'm not stunting the development of my young guys by even a few months to try and build up the trade value of some low level veterans to try and land 2nd round picks. We need these young guys to develop if you want to see the playoffs at some point in the future.
There have been zero reports of the young guys needing motivation or getting complacent or feeling entitled to a starting spot in the league. By all accounts, these guys work extremely hard on the court and in the gym. What they need is good coaching and minutes on the court to develop their skills. They don't need to be caught up in some psychological game that they don't even deserve.
These guys will either pan out or they won't. Most bottom dweller teams don't sit their big name rookies like the Kings do. Usually they get them out on the floor and get their development going from the start. Normally when a top rookie doesn't get minutes it's because they either aren't very good or are on a contending team that can't afford to blow games to develop them right away. The Kings aren't in that position so I don't see the point in "teaching them a lesson" by sitting them when they're working their asses off in the gym. We haven't ruined any players by giving them minutes early in their careers and I don't see it starting now.
There have been zero reports of the young guys needing motivation or getting complacent or feeling entitled to a starting spot in the league. By all accounts, these guys work extremely hard on the court and in the gym. What they need is good coaching and minutes on the court to develop their skills. They don't need to be caught up in some psychological game that they don't even deserve.
These guys will either pan out or they won't. Most bottom dweller teams don't sit their big name rookies like the Kings do. Usually they get them out on the floor and get their development going from the start. Normally when a top rookie doesn't get minutes it's because they either aren't very good or are on a contending team that can't afford to blow games to develop them right away. The Kings aren't in that position so I don't see the point in "teaching them a lesson" by sitting them when they're working their asses off in the gym. We haven't ruined any players by giving them minutes early in their careers and I don't see it starting now.
My thoughts:
Zach and KK probably aren't in the future plans of the kings, so why not try to deal them to playoff teams as bench talent + expiring deals? This would open up for the young guys, especially Giles and MB3 to get minutes.
Honestly, I'm not entirely impressed with the team's ability to develop talent. Keeping guys on the bench in favor of vets never made sense to me on a losing team. Let the guys make mistakes, and make them learn from them. Let them get a feel for the game, and see if they can sink or swim.
Zach and KK probably aren't in the future plans of the kings, so why not try to deal them to playoff teams as bench talent + expiring deals? This would open up for the young guys, especially Giles and MB3 to get minutes.
Honestly, I'm not entirely impressed with the team's ability to develop talent. Keeping guys on the bench in favor of vets never made sense to me on a losing team. Let the guys make mistakes, and make them learn from them. Let them get a feel for the game, and see if they can sink or swim.
The problem with Zbo is that the team was clearly not as good with him on the floor last year. Yes, he did get hot in a couple games, but he really wasn't doing any of the little things (like playing solid D) that coach wanted to hold everyone else to. I get the motivation and leadership aspect of playing the vets last year and pushing the young guys to earn their minutes; however, I think coach understands that Bagley's drive doesn't need any extra motivation. Obviously, if he gets clearly outplayed and effort is an issue, I have no problem starting vets to light a fire.
