DiVincenzo and his camp unhappy

pdxKingsFan · Apr 12, 2022

My top 3 _FOR THE KINGS_ are Smith, Murray and Mathurin.

I can't fairly evaluate Benn, I try not to get excited about UA guys coming to the Kings dating all the way back to when we drafted Pervis over my first favorite college player. Obviously I was elated when Bibby came over. DW obviously did not work out. Most of the other Wildcats I have been high on have gone on to have careers worthy of a middle-first rounder with 2-3 notable exceptions. I hope he is there for us, but I also just won't get my hopes up he'd be the pick if he's there.

SacTownKid · Apr 13, 2022

hrdboild said:

I agree and that's a major concern. And Mitchell vs. Fox might become a thing at some point, but as of now, Mitchell can be a decent backup PG and provides needed defense that Haliburton didn't provide. Anybody factoring in Donte without knowing how the draft shakes out is wasting their time. He's a role player. If he's competing with two lotto picks like Mitchell and whoever should it come to that then the Kings are blowing this again. Either sinking another lotto talent or blowing their wad financially on a player that could be a cap anchor after a season. I look at it as almost an exact repeat of Jason Thompson. They signed him back based on "value", he wasn't THE key to winning, and they sat TRob in his place who in the end would have what? Lost more games? lol. There's no winning there. We saw Gentry test Donte at SF a bit, I don't see that being a solution. The 3 guard lineup with Fox, Davion, and Donte again had Fox having to pick up the slack because Mitchell and Donte are far from long on defense. Both are tough, but stubby. Trying to play Donte at SF is unfair to him and the team and will probably end up with him sitting and Holiday and maybe even Harkless getting minutes over him certain games. On the other hand if Donte had the talent of Ivey then big deal, get him back. He's a good player but is what he is. If they don't draft a SG/SF then his value for the Kings goes up dramatically. Draft a SG/SF and all of a sudden his future and the value of such to the Kings has to be considered heavily. Go back to the Bogdan discussions. People made it out as if he couldn't be let go. 16 million a year? Yeah go for it! On the right team maybe he's worth that. That would have been a disaster for the Kings with how this has all turned out.

Letsgokings13 · Apr 14, 2022

I'd be more than happy to let them walk if they're already complaining.

Kingster · Apr 14, 2022

It sure was a mystery why DDV wasn't playing more and Holiday wasn't playing less. I can understand why DDV thought he was being financially sabotaged by the Kings organization. So you finally get the guy you've been targeting for a couple of years and then you give Holiday more of the minutes? Holiday? Makes no sense to me. Holiday is of lesser quality than DDV. Gentry made some idiotic weak excuses for it, so sure, you have to wonder if you're DDV what the heck is going on. I hope DDV is resigned and with the Kings for many more years. He's the big physical defensive guard this Kings team needs and his experience as a starter on an NBA championship team doesn't hurt.

pdxKingsFan · Apr 14, 2022

If the org is a) set on retaining DDV and b) trying to figure out whether Holiday should be kept or sent off in a trade, which are things that a tanking team might do (regardless of what they are saying front facing) it really isn't that hard to understand. I imagine that when they start talking salary ranges they are going to come above the QO and so it should be clear that this is a nothingburger.

SacTownKid · Apr 14, 2022

Kingster said:

The question is were they though? I mean, I get the "Monte got his guy" stuff, but was a lot of that coming from the Bucks? It's very possible Monte was trying to find a deal for Bogdan so they didn't lose him for nothing and the Bucks initiated. Clearly Monte didn't go to the Bucks otherwise the Kings would have been hammered by the league when it came to tampering. Then when it came to that deal that landed Donte maybe, just maybe, the Bucks or Pistons figured they'd know the Kings would be OK with Donte. If Donte was that important the Kings wouldn't have jerked him around like that. If he was that important to the Bucks, they wouldn't have let him go. TWICE.

Padrino · Apr 14, 2022

Kings fans are so inured to dysfunction at this point that they have to actively seek justifications for why the team's GM should not receive credit for moves that actually benefit the franchise.

Kingster · Apr 14, 2022

SacTownKid said:

It takes two to tango and the Kings were tangoing with DDV twice. To think that it was all the Bucks doing is preposterous, imo. (It's like the, "But it was all her idea!" excuse

). If the Kings are being ruthless and cynical, they know he's a restricted FA so there is monetary benefit to "devaluing" him by playing him less, even though it would be very very bad business imo. (There are even more financial dominoes that fall over and above a potentially lower RFA contract amount due to the fewer potential bidders and fewer high bids; James Ham knows the details on that). Nobody absolutely knows what was going on with DDVs restricted minutes, but it sure does look bad.

SacTownKid · Apr 14, 2022

Kingster said:

That's true, but on the flipside the Bucks dangled him twice and eventually traded him for Ibaka, lol. I agree, if they intentionally did this after never, ever doing that before and if anything, blowing up value on players in the final year before him for no reason that would be bad.

SacTownKid · Apr 14, 2022

Padrino said:

I think the best credit for Monte is that he so far hasn't gone out of his way to blow his cap when not necessary. He could have easily blinked on Bogdan and didn't when clearly that would have been a terrible move. Well, now he sits in the same boat with Donte.

iowamcnabb · Apr 14, 2022

Kingster said:

It sure was a mystery why DDV wasn't playing more and Holiday wasn't playing less. I can understand why DDV thought he was being financially sabotaged by the Kings organization. So you finally get the guy you've been targeting for a couple of years and then you give Holiday more of the minutes? Holiday? Makes no sense to me. Holiday is of lesser quality than DDV. Gentry made some idiotic weak excuses for it, so sure, you have to wonder if you're DDV what the heck is going on. I hope DDV is resigned and with the Kings for many more years. He's the big physical defensive guard this Kings team needs and his experience as a starter on an NBA championship team doesn't hurt.

to be fair, DDV was getting more minutes than Holiday. I do wish we could have seen more of Fox DDV together to see what we could potentially have there.

twslam07 · Apr 15, 2022

Below are some on/off stats that I found interesting:

On Court: Fox, Barnes, & Sabonis / Off Court: NA = 113.6 OFF RTG / 117.5 DEF RTG / -3.9 NET RTG (278 minutes)
On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, & DiVincenzo / Off Court: NA = 111.0 OFF RTG / 105.2 DEF RTG / +5.8 NET RTG (83 minutes)
On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, & Mitchell / Off Court: NA = 109.6 OFF RTG / 130.8 DEF RTG / -21.2 NET RTG (51 minutes)
On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, & DiVincenzo / Off Court: Mitchell = 115.7 OFF RTG / 97.9 DEF RTG / +17.8 NET RTG (66 minutes)
On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, & Mitchell / Off Court: DiVincenzo= 118.1 OFF RTG / 127.8 DEF RTG / -9.7 NET RTG (34 minutes)

And just for fun (since it's very low minutes):

On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, DiVincenzo, & Lyles / Off Court: NA= 122.2 OFF RTG / 63.9 DEF RTG / +58.3 NET RTG (19 minutes)

The data is starting to suggest that we're a pretty effective team when DiVincenzo is paired with our 3 main guys (still lower minute totals though), and that jumps even higher when you remove the short, 3-guard lineup of Fox-DiVincenzo-Mitchell. The other lineups with Fox-Barnes-Sabonis-DiVincenzon in them includes Holiday, Lamb, & Lyles as the 5th guy. You see that the NET RTG is much higher when we actually put a full sized PF out there that can space the floor a bit (again, very small sample so take it with a grain of salt).

All the numbers I see suggest that a Fox-Mitchell backcourt has not been effective on the court together. It's why I'm not particular glued to keeping Mitchell if the idea is that we're building around Fox & Sabonis. We need our big minute guys to complement our core pieces - not clash with them. I know Mitchell talked about working on his game to fit better with Fox so perhaps we see how this data looks next year, but I think it's safe to say that DDV should absolutely be starting next to Fox next year with Mitchell coming off the bench.

Just to wrap it up, this suggests we have a pretty solid, well fitting 4 man lineup of Fox-DiVincenzo-Barnes-Sabonis that, more often than not, outplays the opposing team. If we can upgrade the PF spot with a complementary piece, who's to say this lineup couldn't be effective and win some ball games? We could try to address that via trade (PJ Washington, Jerami Grant, etc.) or the draft (Jabari Smith, Chet Holmgren, Keegan Murray, Tari Eason, etc.). My bet is that McNair is likely looking to address this in the draft and select Murray. It gives us the upgrade at PF we need, he can shoot the 3, he's a good defender, he can defend PFs, he can protect the rim, he can get out and run with Fox, he's a smart player that makes winning plays. Not to mention McNair was quoted as saying that he wants someone who can help now and help in the future. Murray seems to fit that mold as most feel he's more NBA ready while at the same time fitting our need at PF rather well.

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - DiVincenzo / Davis
SF - Barnes / Holiday / Harkless
PF - Murray / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Holmes / Len

Gives us a very well balanced, complentary starting lineup while also having a solid backup at every position (Mitchell-Davis-Holiday-Lyles-Holmes). Add a good coach this summer and perhaps we're looking like a playoff team come this time next year.

ESP47 · Apr 15, 2022

twslam07 said:

Below are some on/off stats that I found interesting:

On Court: Fox, Barnes, & Sabonis / Off Court: NA = 113.6 OFF RTG / 117.5 DEF RTG / -3.9 NET RTG (278 minutes)
On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, & DiVincenzo / Off Court: NA = 111.0 OFF RTG / 105.2 DEF RTG / +5.8 NET RTG (83 minutes)
On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, & Mitchell / Off Court: NA = 109.6 OFF RTG / 130.8 DEF RTG / -21.2 NET RTG (51 minutes)
On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, & DiVincenzo / Off Court: Mitchell = 115.7 OFF RTG / 97.9 DEF RTG / +17.8 NET RTG (66 minutes)
On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, & Mitchell / Off Court: DiVincenzo= 118.1 OFF RTG / 127.8 DEF RTG / -9.7 NET RTG (34 minutes)

And just for fun (since it's very low minutes):
On Court: Fox, Barnes, Sabonis, DiVincenzo, & Lyles / Off Court: NA= 122.2 OFF RTG / 63.9 DEF RTG / +58.3 NET RTG (19 minutes)

The data is starting to suggest that we're a pretty effective team when DiVincenzo is paired with our 3 main guys (still lower minute totals though), and that jumps even higher when you remove the short, 3-guard lineup of Fox-DiVincenzo-Mitchell. The other lineups with Fox-Barnes-Sabonis-DiVincenzon in them includes Holiday, Lamb, & Lyles as the 5th guy. You see that the NET RTG is much higher when we actually put a full sized PF out there that can space the floor a bit (again, very small sample so take it with a grain of salt).

All the numbers I see suggest that a Fox-Mitchell backcourt has not been effective on the court together. It's why I'm not particular glued to keeping Mitchell if the idea is that we're building around Fox & Sabonis. We need our big minute guys to complement our core pieces - not clash with them. I know Mitchell talked about working on his game to fit better with Fox so perhaps we see how this data looks next year, but I think it's safe to say that DDV should absolutely be starting next to Fox next year with Mitchell coming off the bench.

Just to wrap it up, this suggests we have a pretty solid, well fitting 4 man lineup of Fox-DiVincenzo-Barnes-Sabonis that, more often than not, outplays the opposing team. If we can upgrade the PF spot with a complementary piece, who's to say this lineup couldn't be effective and win some ball games? We could try to address that via trade (PJ Washington, Jerami Grant, etc.) or the draft (Jabari Smith, Chet Holmgren, Keegan Murray, Tari Eason, etc.). My bet is that McNair is likely looking to address this in the draft and select Murray. It gives us the upgrade at PF we need, he can shoot the 3, he's a good defender, he can defend PFs, he can protect the rim, he can get out and run with Fox, he's a smart player that makes winning plays. Not to mention McNair was quoted as saying that he wants someone who can help now and help in the future. Murray seems to fit that mold as most feel he's more NBA ready while at the same time fitting our need at PF rather well.

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - DiVincenzo / Davis
SF - Barnes / Holiday / Harkless
PF - Murray / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Holmes / Len

Gives us a very well balanced, complentary starting lineup while also having a solid backup at every position (Mitchell-Davis-Holiday-Lyles-Holmes). Add a good coach this summer and perhaps we're looking like a playoff team come this time next year.

I think that's the best balanced lineup. The offense would be light on defense but should be able to score pretty well. The bench would have good perimeter defense with the ability to get hot offensively. Plus Davis can keep Davion from dribbling the air out of the ball.

iowamcnabb · Apr 15, 2022

The question is, how do we get Murray? Unless we land 4th, I don’t see him being available at 7 or 8. Never know though

ESP47 · Apr 15, 2022

iowamcnabb said:

A lot of mocks have him down in our range or even a few spots lower. I think Murray will be on the board later than Mathurin. It'll be interesting to see. I mean we didn't even really talk about Haliburton because no one thought he would drop anywhere near us. We could be in for an even bigger surprise if one of the top 4 "locks" drop.

iowamcnabb · Apr 15, 2022

ESP47 said:

yeh it certainly could happen. I do wonder after the success of “lower ceiling” players like Halliburton and Wagoneer if teams will be more hesitant to pass on the like.

Capt. Factorial · Apr 15, 2022

iowamcnabb said:

I think there are several obvious good options in "tier 2" for the Kings - on top of any surprises we might end up happy with as well. And this is true whether you like Murray, or Mathurin, or Sharpe, or Davis, or Griffin...

The fact is, if we hold at 7, we're going to get our choice between at least three of that group, and if we drop to 8, we're going to get our choice between at least two of them. And the projected order for this tier is so muddy that not one of the guys stands out as obviously gone before #7. Right now, my reaction to any of those guys going in any position between #5 and #9 would be "Yep, that's about right." And as you can see, that includes Murray at #9.

Kingster · Apr 15, 2022

iowamcnabb said:

But also to be fair, the only reason Holiday should have been getting ANY minutes was to give DDV a blow. Holiday is not the future of this team, given his age and his mediocre play. Maybe the question should be reversed: Why the heck did Holiday get all those minutes? It sure wasn't a reward for his stellar performance.

Kingster · Apr 15, 2022

How much better is Murray than Lyles? Anyone care to compare and contrast the two? I didn't see a lot of Murray, but the games I did see him I couldn't swear that his athleticism was a full grade above Lyles. In what areas do you think he is superior to Lyles? Rebounding? Passing? Shooting? Defense?

Capt. Factorial · Apr 15, 2022

Kingster said:

I think that Keegan looks a decent bit better athletically than Lyles - certainly the Lyles of today. I have a tough time remembering how quick Kentucky Lyles was, even though I was high on him as a prospect at the time.

From a statistical point of view, Keegan's sophomore year pretty much demolishes Trey's one year in college, but I think he's two years older. Trey has turned into a decent three point shooter in the NBA (.338 career) but was horrific at Kentucky (.138!). Keegan was a fantastic .398 this year - closer line of course but very promising for the NBA future of a stretch-4.

I'm optimistic that Keegan will have a better career than Lyles, but I think Lyles has been mediocre enough that Keegan being mocked in the mid-lottery indicates that is the widely-held assumption. I think there's an argument to be made that the Kings have Lyles on the cheap (for one year) and so all things being equal prospect-wise the Kings might look another direction. Still, if Monte thinks Keegan is BPA, Lyles should be no impediment to calling his name out on draft night.

See_Hanks · Apr 15, 2022

Screw DiVincenzo. He got more minutes here, and is complaining about just "starting"? That kind of attitude is toxic, and he should be shown the door or should get traded for a 2nd round pick since that's his current value.

upinsmoke · Apr 15, 2022

See_Hanks said:

Nah, how about we ignore the agent talking ish and sign our RFA to a 4 year team friendly deal. Hes a solid player and his best years are ahead of him. What your talking about is what we should have done with Buddy.

Warhawk · Apr 16, 2022

See_Hanks said:

Or, conversely, how about we quit letting a **** blogger getting the fans mad at a player because the **** blogger either made **** up or is blowing **** way out of proportion to get his name in font of people's faces again?

Tetsujin · May 2, 2022

http://instagr.am/p/CdE2fYfuFxq/
dude hates the Kings so much that he magically omitted the half of the season he played for the Bucks before the trade in his yearly Instagram post.

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