Derrick Williams or lack thereof

[bloom]

I think a lot of people undervalue a team’s bench. Gay’s addition is supposed to make this team stronger. Gay starts and Derrick comes as a spark plug - he’ll keep the starting unit’s rhythm going…We just need some better players…I personally don’t mind Derrick’s move to the bench, considering that he’s still getting good minutes. The one thing that does baffle me is, why not use MCM and Derrick in the same unit? We saw the instant chemistry that these 2 players have together, I can’t understand why our coach is backing away from those 2 playing together. Even though I like the fact that MCM is finally starting to make shots, but I wouldn’t mind a move to the bench so Derrick and him can feed off of each other.

 

[Gilles]

Actually now that Ben started making shots he could be moved to the bench. Move him, while he's in a slump, and you can add to confidence problems.
It's still a stupid idea. Better to move Gay to the bench and run Gay-MT chucking crew, while Williams and Ben play off of Boogie and IT, but that, of course, will never happen.

 

[KingMilz]

I think a lot of people undervalue a team’s bench. Gay’s addition is supposed to make this team stronger. Gay starts and Derrick comes as a spark plug - he’ll keep the starting unit’s rhythm going…We just need some better players…I personally don’t mind Derrick’s move to the bench, considering that he’s still getting good minutes. The one thing that does baffle me is, why not use MCM and Derrick in the same unit? We saw the instant chemistry that these 2 players have together, I can’t understand why our coach is backing away from those 2 playing together. Even though I like the fact that MCM is finally starting to make shots, but I wouldn’t mind a move to the bench so Derrick and him can feed off of each other.

That's the whole issue Williams is not a spark plug type player like Isaiah Thomas or MT who can just come in and start gunning or like IT going to the rim, he's more of a passive aggressive type (which works well with Cousins) as in he will relax out there until he gets a open lane or is forced to go one on one in the post. That's why him being a back up in Minny never worked.

Imo if we are going to build around Cuz we need to build the same way Dallas built around Dirk for the championship run, while Cuz and Dirk are different players they require the same type of team to succeed imo Derrick Williams can be to Cousins what Shawn Marion (past prime) was to Dirk (obviously different but still similar players both great athletes who can play SF/PF and get scores from cuts/transition and the odd 3 pointer). Hopefully Mclemore can develop into something like DeShawn Stevenson (took him ages to become a good defender) on D while providing the 3 point range.as well.

IT can be JJ Barea/Jason Terry and hopefully we can draft someone to be one of the passing tough high IQ PG/ shot blocker in the draft.

While Gay's talent is not in question imo he needs to focus more on being a spot up shooter/defender not playing like Jimmer with over dribbles/tough shot attempts. Williams is not a talent where he makes other guys better when playing with scrubs he needs to play with good players to help bring out the most in him which on this team is a good thing.

 

[Chupacabra]

That's the whole issue Williams is not a spark plug type player like Isaiah Thomas or MT who can just come in and start gunning or like IT going to the rim, he's more of a passive aggressive type (which works well with Cousins) as in he will relax out there until he gets a open lane or is forced to go one on one in the post. That's why him being a back up in Minny never worked.

Imo if we are going to build around Cuz we need to build the same way Dallas built around Dirk for the championship run, while Cuz and Dirk are different players they require the same type of team to succeed imo Derrick Williams can be to Cousins what Shawn Marion (past prime) was to Dirk (obviously different but still similar players both great athletes who can play SF/PF and get scores from cuts/transition and the odd 3 pointer). Hopefully Mclemore can develop into something like DeShawn Stevenson (took him ages to become a good defender) on D while providing the 3 point range.as well.

IT can be JJ Barea/Jason Terry and hopefully we can draft someone to be one of the passing tough high IQ PG/ shot blocker in the draft.

While Gay's talent is not in question imo he needs to focus more on being a spot up shooter/defender not playing like Jimmer with over dribbles/tough shot attempts. Williams is not a talent where he makes other guys better when playing with scrubs he needs to play with good players to help bring out the most in him which on this team is a good thing.

I think Williams is trade bait. I don't like the idea of modeling our team after championship teams of the past. How about we build our own version of a championship team. I certainly have zero interest in limiting Gay to being a spot up shooter. I want him to attack defenses and cause the opposing coach to call time outs. Merry freakin Christmas!!

 

[TheBadGuy]

I think Williams is trade bait. I don't like the idea of modeling our team after championship teams of the past. How about we build our own version of a championship team. I certainly have zero interest in limiting Gay to being a spot up shooter. I want him to attack defenses and cause the opposing coach to call time outs. Merry freakin Christmas!!

Gay is a chucker.

 

[Chupacabra]

Gay is a chucker.

He hasn't been a chucker on our team. I think overall Gay has played some of his most efficient basketball of his career in the few games he's played for us. It's kind of like the saying "it's not about where you're from, it's where you're at." Gay may have been a Chucker on previous teams but he isn't one for the Kings. That's what's important.

 

[TheBadGuy]

He hasn't been a chucker on our team. I think overall Gay has played some of his most efficient basketball of his career in the few games he's played for us. It's kind of like the saying "it's not about where you're from, it's where you're at." Gay may have been a Chucker on previous teams but he isn't one for the Kings. That's what's important.

Previous two games;

Pelicans vs Kings: Gay 2-12 FG.
Magic vs Kings: Gay 8-20 FG.

 

[Chupacabra]

Previous two games;

Pelicans vs Kings: Gay 2-12 FG.
Magic vs Kings: Gay 8-20 FG.

In the 7 games that Gay has played for us he has shot 58% on 49/84 shooting. That's an average of 12 shots per game. I'll let you take back what you said if you want. Merry Christmas!

 

[TheBadGuy]

In the 7 games that Gay has played for us he has shot 58% on 49/84 shooting. That's an average of 12 shots per game. I'll let you take back what you said if you want. Merry Christmas!

I will not take back what I said and I don't celebrate christmas. Versus the Magic with no decent defender against Gay, still he shot 8-20, against the Pelicans he shot 2-12, that's two in a row. Kings vs Heat I think he shot only 1-6.

 

[Chupacabra]

I will not take back what I said and I don't celebrate christmas. Versus the Magic with no decent defender against Gay, still he shot 8-20, against the Pelicans he shot 2-12, that's two in a row. Kings vs Heat I think he shot only 1-6.

I'm going to edit my previous post in the form of a new post. The actual stats are 45% on 43/96 shooting over an 8 game period. Thats 15.5 ppg on 12 shots per game. These stats does not a chucker make. You may take it back and be correct or not take it back and be incorrect. Happy Christmahaunakwanzika!

 

[TheBadGuy]

I'm going to edit my previous post in the form of a new post. The actual stats are 45% on 43/96 shooting over an 8 game period. Thats 15.5 ppg on 12 shots per game. These stats does not a chucker make. You may take it back and be correct or not take it back and be incorrect. Happy Christmahaunakwanzika!

With Gay's history of chucking, of course I would think he's chucking again, that's 2 games in a row now, let's see how many shots he'll throw against Miami. Gay's play is somewhat similar to MT, if they get into their rhythm they can score a lot, but when they aren't on their rhythm, it's brick party again.

 

[dude12]

I think Williams is potentially going to be trade bait if they can get a starting PG....I think someone mentioned he can't be traded with another player until January which delays it if true.....but package him with IT or JT and now your putting together a reasonable package where you can add a bad contract(MT). I think part of the appeal to the Gay contract was dumping the immovable Hayes contract. The other pieces were to long term pieces and Gay might be longterm. I think the front office is willing to just wheeling and dealing until they can get rid of the unwanted contracts and therefore it's why you saw the quick trading of GV.

Probably another reason why we are not seeing the type of players that Malone might want as we can only get what teams are willing to trade. So, so far, we have increased our talent base...I have to believe that Derrick Williams has more value to a young team or other teams than Mbah a Moute who is a specialist. It's a reason why Landry was signed. You keep acquiring assets and ridding yourself of bad contracts.....look what Mbah a Moute brought. And despite what some think,Landry is not an immovable contract and would be valued by teams in this league. Gay has value..the contract certainly hurts his value but its a low risk high reward move.....if he stays the final year....well we have our best SF in awhile. If he opts out and signs for a longer contract or signs elsewhere....lots of cap room.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

It'd be better for the team to start Williams and have Gay off the bench, but Gay wouldn't except that role and as a star talent, it's understandable. If Gay can play like he did versus the Rockets then he can shoot all he wants with that kind of efficieny (not literally, but you know what I mean).

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

It'd be better for the team to start Williams and have Gay off the bench, but Gay wouldn't except that role and as a star talent, it's understandable. If Gay can play like he did versus the Rockets then he can shoot all he wants with that kind of efficieny (not literally, but you know what I mean).

I question bringing in a player who "won't accept" whatever role the coach decides is best for the team going forward

 

[Glenn]

I question bringing in a player who "won't accept" whatever role the coach decides is best for the team going forward

It's an assumption of the fan. I'll bet a large quantity of cash that many on this forum thought that MT wouldn't "accept" being benched.

 

[Chupacabra]

It'd be better for the team to start Williams and have Gay off the bench, but Gay wouldn't except that role and as a star talent, it's understandable. If Gay can play like he did versus the Rockets then he can shoot all he wants with that kind of efficieny (not literally, but you know what I mean).

I don't agree with bringing the second best player on the team off of the bench. Cousins's and Gay's playing style compliment each other. It makes the most sense to start a player who creates shots in the paint and a player who creates shots on the perimeter together. Gay is by far the superior player between he and Williams.

There are a few major factors that separate Gay from MT and that's that Gay can actually create a decent shot, play multiple positions and handle the ball. I sense that many on this forum are underestimating Gay's ability. Sometimes actually watching the games is better than just reading the advanced stats.

 

[bajaden]

I don't know, I just don't think you can justify putting a guy that's making 17 mil a year on the bench. Personally, I could care less! Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone. Well not everyone. I guess The Bad Guy doesn't celebrate christmas. Well Happy Basketball, or what ever you do celebrate.

 

[Bricklayer]

Actually now that Ben started making shots he could be moved to the bench. Move him, while he's in a slump, and you can add to confidence problems.
It's still a stupid idea. Better to move Gay to the bench and run Gay-MT chucking crew, while Williams and Ben play off of Boogie and IT, but that, of course, will never happen.

You don't move a career 19ppg scorer still in his prime to the bench for a 37% shooting rookie.

Ben has potential, but man, that's 3 in the hand for 2 in the bush stuff.

 

[Bricklayer]

I question bringing in a player who "won't accept" whatever role the coach decides is best for the team going forward

Please. NO star, except for Reke, who we ironically dumped, accepts that sort of designation.

I know he hasn't been ours, but people's perception of what Rudy Gay really is is kind of ridiculous. He's not just a player. He's not even just a starter. He's a star, and has been for half a decade now. There is no comparison between Rudy Gay and our young athlete of the month. And there is virtually no player at Rudy Gay's level who would ever accept being benched so we could experiment/tank or whatever. You don't do that to star level guys, and they don't have to accept it because there are 20 other teams out there who WOULD start them, and you are just a stopping off point.

 

[rainmaker]

Surprised there's a growing consensus to move Gay to the bench.

I'd feature him more.

I don't think he's getting enough touches nor do I think he's getting the ball where it plays to his strengths. Give him space, side of the floor cleared out and attack 1v1, send a pick with room to operate or run the two man game with Cuz, give options to kick too and let him make decisions off his attack. Utilize him more and base the offense around he and Cuz. With IT dominating the ball Rudy is turning into a spot up/catch and shoot player or is getting random post ups, many times with poor spacing. That's not how you use him to his strengths, nor is the solution to send him to the bench.

Feature him, play him to his strengths, then see what we have.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Pelicans vs Kings: Gay 2-12 FG.

This line is truly atrocious but he missed so many easy baskets that night. Some say he is injured and favoring his shoulder, I haven't really seen enough outside of the Pelicans game to say. But he didn't really seem like a selfish player that night so much as a guy who couldn't get a bucket to fall.

 

[SacKings2002NBAChampions]

Yeah, IT proved himself off the bench. Williams has not. Williams has been averaging very good minutes coming off the bench bar a few games.
So, I think it's all on him to prove himself. If he wants that starting position, he needs to earn it like IT did.
If D. Will starts playing like the star potential that he has, then the Kings will trade Gay or release him like they did to Vasquez. It's fairly simple. He needs to utilize his minutes to his full potential. If he's good, even 10 minutes should be enough for him to show just how good he is. Unfortunately, bar a few games, he's been below average. I don't think he has good work rate and confidence like he did in College. That's something a good team of coaches should be able to help him with.

Anyone remember how Phil Jackson used to send his players to see therapists in order to overcome their insecurities and weak mentalities? That's what we need to do

 

[SacKings2002NBAChampions]

Remember when people slated me for saying that getting Rudy Gay was a huge mistake?

Well, HA.

 

[Spike]

Small, but important, nit. IT didn't earn the starting position. He won it via trade.

 

[rainmaker]

Remember when people slated me for saying that getting Rudy Gay was a huge mistake?

Well, HA.

Well, HA?

Dude, it's 7 games into his career here. Only way you could have less perspective would be by declaring it a mistake even earlier into his first 7 games here......which apparently you did.

Getting the 2nd or 3rd best SF in our conference wasn't a mistake. Not using him correctly would be a mistake, and we're not, at least not yet.

 

[Kingster]

In the very brief time Rudy has been a King it seems like he has had a lot of aches and pains during the games. They haven't caused him to miss much time, but it seems like every game he literally goes down in the game. In the second game he was a King he went out with an injury. This is something that I'm watching. What is the status of his health? Is he fragile?

 

[Kingster]

Small, but important, nit. IT didn't earn the starting position. He won it via trade.

Semantics. Management decided Vasquez wasn't as good as IT; IT is now the starter. Also, management thought IT was better than Vasquez before Vasquez got traded. You typically don't play your second best pg in the 4th quarter.

 

[Chubbs]

Rudy to the bench? Is that serious? Shooters have bad shooting nights. He's a proven commodity in this league. This conversation should not be happening.

Rudy is going to shoot, that's kinda what he does. It's up to a certain guy to shoot less and play his position better.

And for the love of, our pint sized pg earned nothing. He's starting by default. They had a chance to make a major upgrade at sf, while dumping some guys and took it. The guy left over is starting. Some of you seem happy with the result. 2-6 over the last 8 games. And that's with Miami, San Antonio, and Houston up next. Anyone see victories in those games?

 

[Spike]

Semantics. Management decided Vasquez wasn't as good as IT; IT is now the starter. Also, management thought IT was better than Vasquez before Vasquez got traded. You typically don't play your second best pg in the 4th quarter.

You can choose to see it that way, but it looked more like a salary match issue to me. We'll likely never know, as I doubt Vasquez was ever at full health during his brief stay.

 

[VF21]

Semantics. Management decided Vasquez wasn't as good as IT; IT is now the starter. Also, management thought IT was better than Vasquez before Vasquez got traded. You typically don't play your second best pg in the 4th quarter.

Or management decided being able to get rid of Salmons, Hayes and Patterson was worth getting rid of Vasquez, especially when you're getting Rudy Gay and some spare pieces in return.